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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35
- Thread starter bishoptl
- Start date
BravoSuperStar
Member
commedieu said:
Modern Warfare 2? Unless you meant to say 360 exclusive. I noticed you edited your other post as well. Just trying to keep you fanboys honest, lol.
XiaNaphryz said:
Again my view of a sim is driving from point A to B with no stops unless length of the race requires pit stops, or flags are involved. In real racing I've never seen rewind have you? The ability to continually manipulate a race over and over using this feature eliminates it from the category for me...personally.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
So "getting points, unlocking cars and tracks in career mode" is what makes a driving game a simulation? Really? Stay away from PC "sims" then, where none of that is even present. All I'm doing is replying to what you said. :lolFirewire said:
dfyb said:
You simply don't use rewind when you are going for a good lap time.
There is one leaderboard for times (per car), but all dirty laps get ranked below all clean laps. And using rewind makes the lap dirty. Even if a clean lap took an hour, a 50 second dirty lap would be ranked below the hour long clean lap.
ResidentDante
Member
:lolSmokyDave said:
God this thread has made me laugh so much.
Glad I generally enjoy racing games so I can play them on whatever hardware they arrive on.
BravoSuperStar
Member
commedieu said:GEC? ;p
I thought there was nothing but fanboys here!
Console fanboys, yes. One word makes all the difference. I hope this is not considered console trolling but whichever game, GT or Forza, comes out for the PC is the one I declare "superior".
XiaNaphryz said:
Yes to a degree, its a large part of a sim, its the way Forza allows you to obtain these with rewind that I have a problem with. Why did you ignore what I originally wrote?
reminder...
Don't play PC sims, as I don't have a suitable PC for gaming. In fact I don't have a PC at all.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
See, that wasn't what you originally wrote, you wrote that post after the one I quoted. ;PFirewire said:
Also, m0dus should make a special car livery dedicated to this thread.
XiaNaphryz said:See, that wasn't what you originally wrote, you wrote that post after the one I quoted. ;P
Also, m0dus should make a special car livery dedicated to this thread.
I reviewed the last few pages in the hopes of capturing the heart and soul of this thread.
Unfortunately, a yellow fiat with "INTERFECTUM IS A TOOL" in bright red letters would probably get me banned from live.
I kid, interfectum, I kid. I kid because I love.
shpankey
not an idiot
The hypocrisy of hardcore GT fans is what irks me most. As a PC sim racer for many years, when GT4 came out with the moniker: "the REAL driving simulator" it was offputting, especially since PC sims were already ahead of it in terms of simulation aspects before it even released. but I doubt commedieu or any one of the other GT fans said nary a word. despite the fact it fell so short of other sims, not even including something so basic as a rudimentary damage system. now to see them react to a competitor claiming their game is "definitive" just has to make one laugh out loud. where were you when GT4 came out? I was hear and I don't remember you or really anyone else (other than PC sim racers like myself) complaining.commedieu said:
I also love how the whole "lie" thing is presenting itself. apparently, when releasing screenshots, it's ok to lie a little. juice up your shots with high resolution, AA and AF, and that's ok. but lie more than that as Forza 3 did, and all of a sudden we draw the line. the reality is, Joe Shmoe kid gamer is being deceived by both. high res downsampled images with add AA and AF made GT4 look so godly it was insane. but the reality on one's screen made it painfully clear it didn't look like that when playing. granted, what FM3 did is worse, but I just find it ironic that GT fans are the ones complaining. as if there's some LIE BAR that one can exceed.
lastly, GT fans grasping onto rewind as a cause for attack. it's almost unbelievable to me that they're sinking to something to trivial. I'm not even sure what the argument is exactly. some are saying this makes it not a sim, and to those I say, where were you when GT4 came out and not only didn't punish you for damage, but rewarded you? if your argument is, one COULD use rewind to erase a mistake, well, in GT4 one COULD screw up and wreck and not be punished at all. at least with rewind, it's a choice I get to make. so if I want to play it straight as a sim, and I mess up, I choose to take my punishment.
personally, I've found it an incredible tool to use. I've been using it in conjunction with the ghost car to learn faster ways around corners. the key i've been unlocking is exit speed, i want to come out of the corner faster so on the straights after the corner i make big gains on the ghost. then i come back around the track and try to beat THAT ghost. i've been doing this in practice to really learn a track. when I race race, I chose not to use rewind. but that's up to every person. but I honestly don't care how someone else enjoys their game. why on earth would anyone... i dunno.
anyhow, I'm not sure where all this is going, but damn do these guys annoy me. mostly because they just change their arguments to suit their needs. if someone is not a fanboy and just has a real issue with something, then I have no problem with that.
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
Interfectum said:
Don't forget to add the hittable in game boxes to kill boredom with.
-:lol-
About "rewind"
I would rather rewind a big mistake then restart a race after being 2-3 laps into it.
Why accept frustration if you screw up big time? FM's AI doesn't forgive mistakes or let you catch up to it as easily as other games. Just because the option is there it doesn't mean that you have to use it. Restart race is also an option. So I don't see how anyone could have an issue with this, why would anyone care if someone else uses rewind and they don't for career? It's a decision that one makes and a non-issue :lol
commedieu said:
What exactly do "bullshots" have to do with how a game is scored?
What campaign are you referring to? Are you arguing there's some sort of conspiracy going on between Turn 10, Microsoft, and the review sites?
How are shortcomings ignored when they're talked about in the body of the review?
Let me repeat (for the third time): great games have issues. All of them do. But the job of the reviewer is to see the complete package. Almost every Forza 3 review I've read ends with the same bottom line: Forza 3 is the best sim racer so far this generation and will be hard to top. Bullshots don't factor into whether or not a game is good.
You still have to explain what this means.commedieu said:
Can there at least be an option in a menu somewhere to turn off rewind 100%? I don't want the feature and I don't want to have to mess around with it every time I play.chespace said:
Aside from that, my pre-order for the LE of Forza 3 is made, I just have to err..wait now
*runs back off to NFS:Shift and GTR Evolution in the meantime*
XiaNaphryz said:See, that wasn't what you originally wrote, you wrote that post after the one I quoted. ;P
Also, m0dus should make a special car livery dedicated to this thread.
Ok whatever....
I agree, Modus should do a car dedicated to this thread in a way. How about doing up a car with the review scores painted all around it. That would be pretty slick and a great tribute to Turn10 & Forza 3!
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
So don't press the "back" button. How often do you use that button in other games during normal play anyway?Stop It said:
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
Stop It said:Can there at least be an option in a menu somewhere to turn off rewind 100%? I don't want the feature and I don't want to have to mess around with it every time I play.
Aside from that, my pre-order for the LE of Forza 3 is made, I just have to err..wait now
*runs back off to NFS:Shift and GTR Evolution in the meantime*
Don't press the button? :lol is that so hard?
In the demo there's an option to hide it I think, I'm not sure if that actually turns it off since I never turned it off.
Non-issue.
XiaNaphryz said:
Yep.. if it was a trigger I would understand but the back button? lol you REALLY have to go out of your way to press that thing.
Stop It said:
There is really no "messing around with it." If you don't hit the back button, you don't rewind.
If you really want to avoid the temptation, open your controller and stick a piece of tape over the contacts on the circuit board for the back button. There you go, rewind is now disabled.
You can turn off the "press back to rewind" indicator that pops up at the bottom of the screen when you hit a car or go off track, too.
Aha, excellent, I have to admit I haven't had time to tinker with the Forza 3 demo as much as I would have liked so didn't spot the option.ShapeGSX said:
While I can easily avoid the back button, being told I can rewind at every little mistake annoyed the heck out of me (hence some of my reactions here), so the ability to kill that is very much what I require.
However, as noted above, that issue is not enough to prevent me from buying the game (And the LE at that), so don't think that I am that petty to avoid the game due to this, as much as it ires me.
Teknopathetic
Member
"The hypocrisy of hardcore GT fans is what irks me most. As a PC sim racer for many years, when GT4 came out with the moniker: "the REAL driving simulator" it was offputting, especially since PC sims were already ahead of it in terms of simulation aspects before it even released. but I doubt commedieu or any one of the other GT fans said nary a word. despite the fact it fell so short of other sims, not even including something so basic as a rudimentary damage system. now to see them react to a competitor claiming their game is "definitive" just has to make one laugh out loud. where were you when GT4 came out? I was hear and I don't remember you or really anyone else (other than PC sim racers like myself) complaining."
shpankey said:
All games have taglines Shpankey. PD didn't say they have the game with "THE BEST GRAPHICS, THE BEST PHYSICS, THE BEST" anything, nor are they quoted anywhere claiming their game is the real driving simulator, and that its beyond anything on PC or consoles have put out in years.Do you really want to pretend you cant tell a difference? A tagline vs literally saying your game is the best one on the market, and that its the "only sim to be released this generation"??? You equate that to a Tagline on a box? The second issue is that the word definitive has a literal definition behind it. Which Forza3 can't stand up to in any field outside of the online portion which was already done in Forza2. Fact is you can read "the real driving simulator" or "the drive of your life" and compare it to real life driving, and as many racing enthusiast have stated, the game represents driving well. Now, compare that to Turn10 pretending the game has the best graphics or the best physics.
Its ok to add AA/AF to your game engine for print screenshots and press screen shots, happens all the time, and everyone does it. But in most cases like Epic & Turn10, the bullshots arent' related to the way the game looks at all. Especially in Turn10's case, they highlight the fact that the cars are sporting 10x the resolution of the previous models. Which they aren't. And Oh yeah They also went on record saying TURN 10 DOESN'T BULLSHOT, and that the Photomode is exactly what you see while playing the game(detail).
The world isn't amazed by GT's screenshots alone, but also the replay vidoes as well as the in-game cockpit view. The lighting is the same, as is the attention to detail. It would be different if we were here saying which bullshots look better, but I'd gladly compare GT5p to Forza 2 & 3 to declare GT captures driving a vehicle better minus the sound. Sounds in GT are all terrible. Not only that, but GT/PD/Fans aren't saying its the best thing in the world either. If you haave issues with people calling out Turn10's nonsense, take it up with Turn10. When the game isn't close to what Turn10's presentation/words is, it doesn't automatically mean now you can scrutinize GT compared to perfection. That case was never made.
The rewind thing is another Turn10 highlight/boast. Allegedly games without it are old and dated according to Turn10. Its somehow become a defining feature of the game even though its not unique to the series. The same argument was made with GRID but excused because its an arcade racer, and everyone was fine with that classification. Now its some topic that needs to be discussed all of a sudden.
Teknopathetic
Member
"ll games have taglines Shpankey. PD didn't say they have the game with "THE BEST GRAPHICS, THE BEST PHYSICS, THE BEST" anything, nor are they quoted anywhere claiming their game is the real driving simulator,"
ElNino said:
Hardly. If it was, there wouldn't be the need to claim F3 has the best anything out if its predecessor already was the best.(not sure how everyone keeps forgetting F2 was already better than gran turismo) This thread wouldn't even be here. Comparisons of GT5PROLOGUE vs Forza3 wouldn't be happening either. They would only be laughed at and no one would take them seriously, if that was the case.
Its not the case though, as we are here.
I've played Forza, GT5P, Race Pro and the NFS: Shift demo (does that count?). I'm not saying Forza 2 is better than all those games in every facet, but as a complete package I would absolutely say it is.evolution said:
What games do you think are better? As a big fan of racing games I'd love to try them out if they are good.
Teknopathetic said:"ll games have taglines Shpankey. PD didn't say they have the game with "THE BEST GRAPHICS, THE BEST PHYSICS, THE BEST" anything, nor are they quoted anywhere claiming their game is the real driving simulator,"
Again, you wont find anyone from PD saying their game is the real driving simulator. The box art is the tag line of the game. Which is what I already said.
I mean.. GT isn't "the drive of your life" either, while we are at it.
Are people really pretending a tagline is the same as saying that your game has the best graphics & physics out?
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Excellent, Tekno's come in to party.
Teknopathetic
Member
"Again, you wont find anyone from PD saying their game is the real driving simulator. The box art is the tag line of the game. Which is what I already said."
So Turn10 just needs to put Definitive on the box as the tagline and then there's no problem?
So absurd.
"Are people really pretending a tagline is the same as saying that your game has the best graphics & physics out?"
It's okay, they're going to put that as the tagline.
So Turn10 just needs to put Definitive on the box as the tagline and then there's no problem?
So absurd.
"Are people really pretending a tagline is the same as saying that your game has the best graphics & physics out?"
It's okay, they're going to put that as the tagline.
Teknopathetic said:
... Again.. one more time..
PD isn't claiming their game is the best driving game. The "definitive" argument is based on statements made from Turn10 themselves. Which is why a tagline of "real driving simulator" on a box is completely different than stating your title is definitive -because- it has the best graphics and physics out there, compared to PC and Console games.
Not sure how you're missing that.
The issue isn't just calling a game definitive, and walking away. You would be right if thats all that ever happened. GT folk would be total hypocrites if that happened. But No, its that you call it definitive, then list the reasons why... and none of them hit the mark or make sense, and in most cases, is a sad lie.
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
commedieu said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M5gQIKkYYA 41:50 just to give you a shortcut to it.
Guess who won? I guess people that do this for a living and judge them fairly wont matter either.
Slayer-33 said:
Yet, we are still here with Turn10 trying to justify their already superior game, to the stagnant Gran Turismo franchise. You posting more links just proves the point that Forza was already critically acclaimed to be better than GT, which is why I said its no shock that Forza scores high. The previous 2 did. So why the need to lie about the game?
bloodforge
Member
-viper- said:
I don't know what GT4 you played, but you don't get time penalized for hitting a wall or a car.
shpankey
not an idiot
I'm sorry, but that doesn't fly with me. If it's their tagline, then obviously they are saying it. I don't really buy "it's just a tagline" and has a supposed other meaning. The definite article "the" carries with it a meaning that is conveyed... it's means in this case unique or exclusive. *The one*, it's definite in that it means it sets itself above all the others. The word "real" only further establishes itself, conveying an obvious meaning of it is real and others are not. If you want a true simulation, this is it, the others are not real simulators.commedieu said:
I took Turn 10's definitive statement as an almost coy backhand to PD because of their moniker. Does it bother me? Yes, but it's almost as if they are just returning the favor, so to speak.
And I've played plenty of GT4. But getting a 5 second penalty is hardly punishment for slamming into a wall at 100+mph. Even in FM2, if one does that (which I have plenty) your car is put into limp mode. Hardly realistic either, but the punishment is extreme enough to ensure your last place in most circumstance. However viper, you missed the point I was making. It wasn't to admonish GT4, but demonstrate the hypocrisy of an avid GT fan scorning rewind for it's non-sim qualities meanwhile completely ignoring the ones in the franchise they love.
proposition
Banned
In a sense, I think calling F3 the definitive racer of this gen makes a lot of sense. What is the defining feature of this generation, at least for the HD consoles? Networking and community. And that is F3's strong point.
Of course GT fans are trying to spin 'definitive' as 'best looking', so that they can say that obviously GT5 is the definitive sim, but that's only because GT5 is only better looking. There's nothing about the game or any info released so far that suggests that in any other sense it will be F3's competitor.
Forza 3 is Web 2.0 to GT5's Usenet.
Of course GT fans are trying to spin 'definitive' as 'best looking', so that they can say that obviously GT5 is the definitive sim, but that's only because GT5 is only better looking. There's nothing about the game or any info released so far that suggests that in any other sense it will be F3's competitor.
Forza 3 is Web 2.0 to GT5's Usenet.