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[Lion Heart]

Whats with people on the xbox side calling other people fanboys? First of all, you guys are hypocrites, second of all, I dont see PS fanboys calling anyone else that. Its like a law, pretty much everyone on the xbox/forza side in this thread has said that shit at least 5 times each. Hell, its not just this thread, its everywhere. "fanboy this" "Sony Fanboy that", its annoying.

Also, one guy will mention how all the die hard GT fans are trolling Forza like crazy and then all of you guys start saying it. Think for yourselves.

What I've noticed is that all the Forza hate is about graphics (and to some extent rewind, but thats just retarded). Big fuckin deal, Forza looks great but thats the worst critisicm the game is getting. Now lets see the hate for GT. The entire foundation of the game is being criticized except for the graphics. And the Forza fans have the gull to get upset and call out the other fanboys. Thats mind boggling.

 

[shpankey]

Unless you're some super skilled buffed up version of Michael Schumacher, or you're racing against really underpowered cars, the 5 second penalty means that you just lost the event.

not when it's offset by the 5 second you gained by doing it in the first place.

 

[commedieu]

No, you said Forza 3 scored high because:



All of which are usually bannable outside this thread.

And I still stand by what I said. Forza(s) have been rated higher than GT. And its definitely no surprise the 3rd would be rated high as well. Forza2 was claimed to have better visuals & physics than GT.

 

[malsumis]

not when it's offset by the 5 second you gained by doing it in the first place.

Doing what? Slammin' into the wall? That's hardly the best winning tactic. Please explain how in the world you can gain seconds by slammin other cars and/or walls when the penalty mechanic is in place?

 

[Slayer-33]

In a sense, I think calling F3 the definitive racer of this gen makes a lot of sense. What is the defining feature of this generation, at least for the HD consoles? Networking and community. And that is F3's strong point.

Of course GT fans are trying to spin 'definitive' as 'best looking', so that they can say that obviously GT5 is the definitive sim, but that's only because GT5 is only better looking. There's nothing about the game or any info released so far that suggests that in any other sense it will be F3's competitor.

Forza 3 is Web 2.0 to GT5's Usenet.

Nail on the fucking head.

Yet, we are still here with Turn10 trying to justify their already superior game, to the stagnant Gran Turismo franchise. You posting more links just proves the point that Forza was already critically acclaimed to be better than GT, which is why I said its no shock that Forza scores high. The previous 2 did. So why the need to lie about the game?

Lie about what? It's PR dude why can't you get over it?


Definitive doesn't = perfect or was implied that it was perfect :lol the fact is, FM 3 will be the best most complete overall console sim out in a long time, why can't people give credit to where it's due? You don't have to be so insecure because a company is boasting their game as the definitive racing game, so why have such a reaction? Will GT 5 beat it? We'll have to wait and see in a handful of months.


The GT and FM franchises are well rounded racing sim games on consoles this is why we have this debate, don't let any buzzwords or pr get to you.

 

[ShogunX]

And I still stand by what I said. Forza(s) have been rated higher than GT. And its definitely no surprise the 3rd would be rated high as well. Forza2 was claimed to have better visuals & physics than GT.

So what your basically claiming is due to the fact that in your view the Xbox 360 is a little short on exclusive games this year the review sites have taken it upon themselves to overlook any problems with features and award Forza 3 extra marks to make up for it?

.....Really?

 

[shpankey]

Whats with people on the xbox side calling other people fanboys? First of all, you guys are hypocrites, second of all, I dont see PS fanboys calling anyone else that. Its like a law, pretty much everyone on the xbox/forza side in this thread has said that shit at least 5 times each. Hell, its not just this thread, its everywhere. "fanboy this" "Sony Fanboy that", its annoying.

Also, one guy will mention how all the die hard GT fans are trolling Forza like crazy and then all of you guys start saying it. Think for yourselves.

What I've noticed is that all the Forza hate is about graphics (and to some extent rewind, but thats just retarded). Big fuckin deal, Forza looks great but thats the worst critisicm the game is getting. Now lets see the hate for GT. The entire foundation of the game is being criticized except for the graphics. And the Forza fans have the gull to get upset and call out the other fanboys. Thats mind boggling.

I don't know if you are referring to me, but I'm certainly no Forza fanboy. You'd be hard pressed to find any evidence of that. You could probably only muster a handful of posts at best in a Forza thread from me. I'm not sure I did anything other than dabble in Forza 1, just got FM2 not to long ago and haven't put in a great amount of time even. Recently I built a Speed 3 in it just b/c I could and it's my new car in real life, so it was fun. My GT is shpankE if you want to look. Hell, I went without a 360 for over a year after mine red ringed. I only had a PS3 for the longest time (gave my 1st one away and bought a slim). I've definitely put more time in GT4 than all Forza's combined. But my real love is for PC sims. Even those I haven't been playing much lately.

I just had more of an issue, coming into this thread late, about the hypocrisy of the arguments being waged. I probably wouldn't have even posted had they not been so blatantly ironic.

 

[commedieu]

....

I dont think you're going to acknowledge the fact that Turn10 stated the game has the best x y z, that the lack of rewind makes games feel dated, that Forza3 is the only sim that will release this generation, and that its years ahead of any console/pc racers.

If you are going to keep ignoring that, and just stick to the concept that Griswald just quietly said "definitive" and ran off the stage, thats fine I guess. But whats the point of responding if you don't discuss anything I've mentioned?

If PD/KY went around being quoted as saying their game is the best, you would at least have a leg to stand on. But, its not the case.

 

[Interfectum]

All of which are usually bannable outside this thread.

So is backseat modding.

 

[Cat in the Hat]

So is backseat modding.

So is backseat modding.

 

[shpankey]

Doing what? Slammin' into the wall? That's hardly the best winning tactic. Please explain how in the world you can gain seconds by slammin other cars and/or walls when the penalty mechanic is in place?

I've seen people slam into walls on 180 degree turns, bounce off and into the right direction that easily offset most of the penalty.

again though, you're missing the point and getting hung up on the technicality of the analogy. that being the ablilty to bounce of walls if you make a mistake verses the ability to rewind (a choice). if one is going to sit and argue that rewind disqualifies a game as a sim, then obviously in my mind, so does the former, even moreso. so again, the hypocrisy is bothering.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Whats with people on the xbox side calling other people fanboys? First of all, you guys are hypocrites, second of all, I dont see PS fanboys calling anyone else that. Its like a law, pretty much everyone on the xbox/forza side in this thread has said that shit at least 5 times each. Hell, its not just this thread, its everywhere. "fanboy this" "Sony Fanboy that", its annoying.

There we are, I was waiting for this inevitable rant. Anyone who claims someone is a fanboy or is "on a side" MUST be on an opposing side of some sort and MUST be a fanboy, because only fanboys call other people fanboys. :lol

 

[ElNino]

Forza2 was claimed to have better visuals & physics than GT.

At the time it did. GT5P was released and has some great looking visuals, but physics were still debateable. Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that when Forza 2 came out it was absolutely the best console racing sim available... and in many ways still is (and I fully expect both Forza 3 and GT5 to surpass it).

 

[Lion Heart]

I don't know if you are referring to me, but I'm certainly no Forza fanboy. You'd be hard pressed to find any evidence of that. I'm not sure I did anything other than dabble in Forza 1, just got FM2 not to long ago and haven't put in a great amount of time even. Recently I built a Speed 3 in it just b/c I could and it's my new car in real life, so it was fun. My GT is shpankE if you want to look. Hell, I went without a 360 for over a year after mine red ringed. I only had a PS3 for the longest time (gave my 1st one away and bought a slim). I've definitely put more time in GT4 than all Forza's combined. But my real love is for PC sims. Even those I haven't been playing much lately.

I just had more of an issue, coming into this thread late, about the hypocrisy of the arguments being waged. I probably wouldn't have even posted had they not been so blatantly ironic.

Dude, im talking about dozens of people here, hell more than that. Its like a trend on GAF. I honestly just read Propositions post after clicking submit and thats like everything I said in one post.

 

[Cat in the Hat]

Whats with people on the xbox side calling other people fanboys? First of all, you guys are hypocrites, second of all, I dont see PS fanboys calling anyone else that. Its like a law, pretty much everyone on the xbox/forza side in this thread has said that shit at least 5 times each. Hell, its not just this thread, its everywhere. "fanboy this" "Sony Fanboy that", its annoying.

Also, one guy will mention how all the die hard GT fans are trolling Forza like crazy and then all of you guys start saying it. Think for yourselves.

What I've noticed is that all the Forza hate is about graphics (and to some extent rewind, but thats just retarded). Big fuckin deal, Forza looks great but thats the worst critisicm the game is getting. Now lets see the hate for GT. The entire foundation of the game is being criticized except for the graphics. And the Forza fans have the gull to get upset and call out the other fanboys. Thats mind boggling.

you sound upset

 

[Slackbladder]

Good old Gametrailers have this - a comparison of Forza 2 and 3 and Shift on Laguna Seca.
What interested me was at 1:21. Laguna Seca looks identical in both Forza 2 and 3, from the sky down to the trees on the distant hills. I was hoping for a slight make over on the circuits (admittedly this is only one). Well, I guess they were busy with other things.
And that cockpit view. Ewww.

 

[Yoritomo]

Whats with people on the xbox side calling other people fanboys? First of all, you guys are hypocrites, second of all, I dont see PS fanboys calling anyone else that. Its like a law, pretty much everyone on the xbox/forza side in this thread has said that shit at least 5 times each. Hell, its not just this thread, its everywhere. "fanboy this" "Sony Fanboy that", its annoying.

Also, one guy will mention how all the die hard GT fans are trolling Forza like crazy and then all of you guys start saying it. Think for yourselves.

What I've noticed is that all the Forza hate is about graphics (and to some extent rewind, but thats just retarded). Big fuckin deal, Forza looks great but thats the worst critisicm the game is getting. Now lets see the hate for GT. The entire foundation of the game is being criticized except for the graphics. And the Forza fans have the gull to get upset and call out the other fanboys. Thats mind boggling.

I haven't done it yet. You must be a GT fanboy if you think that.

 

[Lion Heart]

you sound upset

I just punched a kitten in the face :<

 

[Cat in the Hat]

^^poor little kitty :3

Good old Gametrailers have this - a comparison of Forza 2 and 3 and Shift on Laguna Seca.
What interested me was at 1:21. Laguna Seca looks identical in both Forza 2 and 3, from the sky down to the trees on the distant hills. I was hoping for a slight make over on the circuits (admittedly this is only one). Well, I guess they were busy with other things.
And that cockpit view. Ewww.

Shift looks WAY better.

 

[BravoSuperStar]

Whats with people on the xbox side calling other people fanboys? First of all, you guys are hypocrites, second of all, I dont see PS fanboys calling anyone else that. Its like a law, pretty much everyone on the xbox/forza side in this thread has said that shit at least 5 times each. Hell, its not just this thread, its everywhere. "fanboy this" "Sony Fanboy that", its annoying.

Also, one guy will mention how all the die hard GT fans are trolling Forza like crazy and then all of you guys start saying it. Think for yourselves.

What I've noticed is that all the Forza hate is about graphics (and to some extent rewind, but thats just retarded). Big fuckin deal, Forza looks great but thats the worst critisicm the game is getting. Now lets see the hate for GT. The entire foundation of the game is being criticized except for the graphics. And the Forza fans have the gull to get upset and call out the other fanboys. Thats mind boggling.

 

[Trunchisholm]

To those constantly regurgitating the same old shit about both sides claiming to be the best or whatever: A game is not made automatically better or worse because of any spokeperson's claims. It's actually going to be the same bloody game, in spite of the PR bullshit. It's just the fanboys who use that message to amplify their positive/negative bias towards the game.

People downplaying each game's efforts simply because of someone within T10/PD running his mouth are plain stupid. You've plenty of reasons for disliking either game based on their shortcomings so, for goodness sake, stop resorting to the same PR quoting.

 

[shpankey]

I dont think you're going to acknowledge the fact that Turn10 stated the game has the best x y z, that the lack of rewind makes games feel dated, that Forza3 is the only sim that will release this generation, and that its years ahead of any console/pc racers.

If you are going to keep ignoring that, and just stick to the concept that Griswald just quietly said "definitive" and ran off the stage, thats fine I guess. But whats the point of responding if you don't discuss anything I've mentioned?

If PD/KY went around being quoted as saying their game is the best, you would at least have a leg to stand on. But, its not the case.

Much like any PR, I don't give it any weight. I told you it bothered me but I'm used to it now. My whole point wasn't who did it worse, it was that you are ignoring it on your game (or in this case, I don't even know what you're doing, but it's spinning me right round) and calling it out on another. I don't care what you say, having "The real driving simulator" on your box cover is doing the same thing. In fact, it may be worse since every potential buyer will read it. Versus some PR statement most gamers probably don't even know about.

I don't think either one of them should make such boasts. But I realize PR is PR and they do that. My issue is with you ignoring it on one game and calling it out on another. I don't care how you try to spin it, it's just as bad. THE REAL DRIVING SIMULATOR carries with it a certain connotation. Had they said "A realistic driving simulator" then of course that means something else. But they didn't... it's THE REAL driving simulator. But it doesn't bother me enough to keep me from playing GT4, nor will it keep me from playing FM3.

The thing is, whatever's been said by some PR mouthpiece, there is a demo of FM3 out, and so obviously they are letting the consumers be their own judge. I hardly feel deceived and someone would be hard pressed to convince me that they were.

 

[Interfectum]

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/laguna-seca-forza-motorsport/57418?type=flv

BenjaminBirdie: bu bu bu you have to compare them in motion they look a generation apart.

Guess you got your wish :lol

 

[commedieu]

So what your basically claiming is due to the fact that in your view the Xbox 360 is a little short on exclusive games this year the review sites have taken it upon themselves to overlook any problems with features and award Forza 3 extra marks to make up for it?

.....Really?

Forza3 will be/is the highest rated 360 exclusive title in 2009. Forza as a series has scored higher than GT's in recent history. Which is all to say there is no surprise that it gets yet another great score & that that further highlights the reality of the situation here.

People want to pretend GT is out to troll F3. Last time I checked, GT has nothing to troll f3 with, as I mentioned a few pages back.

As far as your assumptions, of course im not saying that. That would be like firing staff over low reviews or something unheard of like that.

 

[Slayer-33]

BenjaminBirdie: bu bu bu you have to compare them in motion they look a generation apart.

Guess you got your wish :lol

They do look a generation apart :lol it's just that it's not easy to tell on the same track.


NY looks much better than FM2 on 3 but Laguna looks pretty similar, yet the lighting is improved upon in FM3,

Minute 1:22 is a good example. And :lol at the way the GT40 came down the hill @ 1:22 in NFS:S

 

[LCfiner]

What GT games in recent memory?

GT4? Gt5?

Look, let's break it down

gt4 was considered to be similar to gt3 so a lot of reviews will drop the score a bit if they don't think there's some huge advancement. Happens all the time to tons of sequels within the same console generation.

And gt5 was only a portion of a full game and was 40 bucks. Sites that take price into account docked it for that.

Don't even bother bringing gtsp into this. It's a whole other console with different considerations.

I fully expect gt5 to get very high scores because it's adding a lot of stuff that is new to the gt series. Plus it's gorgeous and will have a metric fuckton of content.

Plus, let's face it... Who gives a fuck about review percentages except diehard fanboys?

 

[jakonovski]

GiantBomb has an awesome Forza3 Quick Look, and I dare anyone to hate the game after watching it: http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-forza-motorsport-3/17-1475/

Also, regarding the GT4 5sec penalty, you could easily (well not that easily, but after a bit of practice) avoid it by drifting ass first into AI cars, because then it counted it as their fault and not yours.

 

[commedieu]

I don't care what you say.

Well.. not sure where that leaves us :lol ?

 

[commedieu]

GiantBomb has an awesome Forza3 Quick Look, and I dare anyone to hate the game after watching it: http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-forza-motorsport-3/17-1475/

Also, regarding the GT4 5sec penalty, you could easily (well not that easily, but after a bit of practice) avoid it by drifting ass first into AI cars, because then it counted it as their fault and not yours.

This is what I mean..

No one is hating on Forza.. are people saying that Turn10's claims weren't true about the game? Which happened to be the biggest buzz surrounding it? You bet.

F3 has hardly anything on F2 as a simulation, and F2 was already better than GT... Had second to none physics & Visuals right? So F3 is even more better than GT than F2 was.

So what do Forza fans think they are proving this time around? That the word betterer should exist?

 

[Slayer-33]

GiantBomb has an awesome Forza3 Quick Look, and I dare anyone to hate the game after watching it: http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-forza-motorsport-3/17-1475/

Also, regarding the GT4 5sec penalty, you could easily (well not that easily, but after a bit of practice) avoid it by drifting ass first into AI cars, because then it counted it as their fault and not yours.

Excellent vid can't wait to sink my teeth into FM 3.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

BenjaminBirdie: bu bu bu you have to compare them in motion they look a generation apart.

Guess you got your wish :lol

Holy shit, you finally responded to me! What was the secret ingredient?

 

[shpankey]

Well.. not sure where that leaves us :lol ?

It's simple. We just disagree. And I can agree to do that.

 

[AMUSIX]

Hey, just curious. For those claiming that PD has never been so aggressive in badmouthing competition, wasn't there some quote about how if a title isn't 30fps, it can't even be called a game?

Seems to me, that is probably one of the most insulting comments for any developer to make about their competition.

Or was this not made by someone at PD or at Sony?

 

[antiloop]

If you look at other people as enemies or insane you are the problem.

It's possible to have different preferences. You can't change that.

 

[commedieu]

It's simple. We just disagree. And I can agree to do that.

hmm... Yeah.

 

[LCfiner]

Hey, just curious. For those claiming that PD has never been so aggressive in badmouthing competition, wasn't there some quote about how if a title isn't 30fps, it can't even be called a game?

Seems to me, that is probably one of the most insulting comments for any developer to make about their competition.

Or was this not made by someone at PD or at Sony?

I remember hearing that comment at E3 this year concerning GTSP running at 60 fps.

I don't know if it came off harsh due to some translation issue.

honestly, for racing games, I kinda agree (not that it isn't a real "game" but that it's very important). the biggest knock on forza 1 was that it ran at 30 fps.

 

[Interfectum]

Wow brutal being compared to arcade racers by 1UP

Forza 3 is easily outclassed by the excellent damage modeling of DiRT 2 and even Need for Speed: Shift. Specifically, cars tend to sport the same generic "scratch" and "scuff" textures when they're hit, and dent deforming seems limited, as well.

Again Forza fanatics - don't shoot the messenger.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Wow brutal being compared to arcade racers by 1UP



Again Forza fanatics - don't shoot the messenger.

Brutal to whom exactly? I'm dying to know. Maybe we should cite reviews where it was stated that Burnout Paradise had better damage too.

How, oh how, did they ever trump Forza in this regard?

Awaiting Your Reply,
Me

 

[LCfiner]

Wow brutal being compared to arcade racers by 1UP



Again Forza fanatics - don't shoot the messenger.

rolls eyes. ok, I'll bite.

you would think it's a miracle they would find the game enjoyable at all. but, alas, they quite liked it.

Still, Forza 3 is a very good racing sim in a handsome package that can proudly proclaim itself as the best and most polished currently available, but it's the excellent integration and extent of its online features that make it a stand out game. Driving, tuning and creating within a living community breathes essential life to a game genre that can occasionally be a bit too stuffy for its own good.

no surprise, it's the online community features that make the game standout. it always has been. no surprise.

 

[RSTEIN]

Wow brutal being compared to arcade racers by 1UP

You forgot this part (where, you know, it was compared to GT):

The truth is, both games offer a truly excellent racing sim experience, with large car and track selections and true to life physics, but as GT has rested on its laurels, Forza has steadily improved, gaining legions of fans tired of waiting for their old king to return.

Forza 3 is a very good racing sim in a handsome package that can proudly proclaim itself as the best and most polished currently available, but it's the excellent integration and extent of its online features that make it a stand out game.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

Wow brutal being compared to arcade racers by 1UP



Again Forza fanatics - don't shoot the messenger.

It's fair game. T10 has been talking up damage a lot in their game in contrast to what they were showing.

 

[jakonovski]

This is what I mean..

No one is hating on Forza.. are people saying that Turn10's claims weren't true about the game? Which happened to be the biggest buzz surrounding it? You bet.

F3 has hardly anything on F2 as a simulation, and F2 was already better than GT... Had second to none physics & Visuals right? So F3 is even more better than GT than F2 was.

So what do Forza fans think they are proving this time around? That the word betterer should exist?

Dude, what are you on about? I don't care about some overblown bullshots, I care about Turn 10 delivering the effing goods. Did you see the Fujimi Kaido drifting vid at the end of that Quick Look? That was the most awesome thing I have ever seen in a racing game, ever.

 

[LCfiner]

It's fair game. T10 has been talking up damage a lot in their game in contrast to what they were showing.

of course it's fair game.

it's just so darn predictable when it's the sole point of the review being mentioned in a post by Interfectum.

 

[Interfectum]

It's fair game. T10 has been talking up damage a lot in their game in contrast to what they were showing.

So best graphics this gen (but worse than GT5P)

Best damage this gen (but worse than arcade racers Dirt 2 and NFS Shift)

What was the other thing Dan was saying Forza 3 was best at?

Coloring in your car?

I think he gets that one.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

So best graphics this gen (but worse than GT5P)

Best damage this gen (but worse than arcade racers Dirt 2 and NFS Shift)

What was the other thing Dan was saying Forza 3 was best at?

Coloring in your car?

I think he gets that one.

:lol

I think the most beautiful (truly and honestly beautiful, like the snowflake in Planetary, containing billions of variations of pure vitrolic hatred in a single post) is that instead of looking the benifits or detriments of either (or any) of the games discussed, you have honed in on the PR blabbering of a single mouthpiece. It's like dying of thirst in the desert, a giant water bottle the size of a redwood behind you, waiting, desperately, for someone to plug in the water fountain in front of you.

 

[RSTEIN]

What was the other thing Dan was saying Forza 3 was best at?
Coloring in your car? I think he gets that one.

He said F3 would be the definitive racer this gen. Almost every single review so far has concluded that F3 is indeed the best racer released this gen (so far).

Looks like T10 delivered. You can't argue with that (although I'm sure you'll try).

 

[Slayer-33]

So best graphics this gen (but worse than GT5P)

Best damage this gen (but worse than arcade racers Dirt 2 and NFS Shift)

What was the other thing Dan was saying Forza 3 was best at?

Coloring in your car?

I think he gets that one.

Wow brutal being compared to arcade racers by 1UP



Again Forza fanatics - don't shoot the messenger.

If that's FM 3 then I can't imagine what the comparison would be like on damage modeling and collisions compared to GT 5 :lol...

Dirt 2 - A rally game running at 30 fps which is expected to have realistic looking crashes and damage modeling because they are a big part of that sort of racing.

NFS:Shift has an arcade physics model that's masked by an overly shaky cockpit cam to make it look more realistic than it should. Hence the free overhead to model damage a little better.


Try harder next time, your desparation to find any flaw or critique that has no relevance when it comes to the topic at hand is getting to be quite funny.

Poor you

 

[user_nat]

Wow brutal being compared to arcade racers by 1UP



Again Forza fanatics - don't shoot the messenger.

You're now quoting negative things for an otherwise overwhelmingly positive review. Nice.

"A terrific racing sim that can proudly proclaim itself as the best and most polished currently available."
Definitive?

 

[Zaptruder]

So I'm looking at the Giant Bomb play through, looking pretty good. Pretty awesome. But I'm noticing some cars just do not look right without license plates.

But why? I know there are a couple cars out there where you need license plate stickers instead of plates because there are no mount points, but the vast majority do... and even have a specific space for it. The lack of license plates just makes the car look weird.

 

[belvedere]

If that's FM 3 then I can't imagine what the comparison would be like on damage modeling and collisions compared to GT 5 :lol...

Why do people keep referencing this alternate universe where GT5 is complete?