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[DangerousDave]

Well, to be honest, it will be very intresting to see the direction in which Forza series will go.

Yep, I think that they reached some kind of "dead end", in the GT comparations.

They won't be able to match GT5 graphics, specially if they have to obey the no mandatory installation policy.

They won't be able to overpass GT5 by content, by the same reason, and also because of the disc size. Optional install for a few tracks and cars is one thing, but if they have to split the content in 2 discs, will be very painfully.

And they won't be able to beat the budget of GT (because of sales), so I don't think they will be able to get more official licenses than GT.

And GT is full of features, from headtracking to track creation or b-spec, so i find it difficult to beat them in this...

I don't have any clue about what Forza team will focus for the next game.

 

[painful fart]

I can't believe they would actually go through with that. It looked absolutely idiotic.

Yeah, how fun will that gimmick be the umpteenth time?

 

[Xun]

When people say GT5 wins we're speaking surely of graphics?

Forza 3 plays really fucking well still, as I'm sure GT5 does.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Being rumored, hinted or even in de facto development doesn't necessary mean implementation on the final release. Take GT4's online mode for example.

What is certain is that the GT5 suffered some delays after Forza 3 release. If these were going to happen regardless, one can only speculate. But one can also speculate that maybe at that time at the eyes of PD they were more comparable (even if GT5 already had the edge) and PD felt the need to extend development.
That the kind of "pressure" I was talking about. Sure it's speculation, but plausible.

GT5 suffered ONE delay.

 

[Pepto]

There is no other way to describe the sales of FM3 than modest. AAA title, that is pinnacle of genre on one platform, with crazy marketing and millions payed for licenses, development and such, and with more than 35 million consoles on market at release time should have sold better than actual numbers of FM3.

How much has Forza 3 sold?

 

[AndyD]

When people say GT5 wins we're speaking surely of graphics?

Forza 3 plays really fucking well still, as I'm sure GT5 does.

Well, content too I would say.

 

[Tabz]

GT5 suffered ONE delay.

Isn't that because of 3D?

 

[gogogow]

How much has Forza 3 sold?

It surpassed 2 million worldwide as of February 2010.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

"Ugh...must not ...slap..the emperor"

Green: Hey Kaz! I'm a huge fan, can I get a quick picture with ya?

Kaz: Who is this, didn't I say I didn't want to be bothered on my smoke break? Grrrr! (must smile)

Green: This is so awesome!

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I maybe wrong, and I know development tools do get better and allow for more efficiency, but it's probably not ever going to be cost effective to significantly improve the car models beyond the state they are in GT5. Better performance, IQ, lighting, shadowing etc will make them look better of course, but I can't imagine PD ever notably stepping up the polycount on models or anything going forward. No doubt they will scrape certain aspects, but I imagine pretty much all the premium models in GT5 will be in the GTs going forward for a very long time. FZs cars don't look quite so good, but I imagine they're in a similar boat in that regard.

The cars in GT 5 are model above PS3 specs .
That how i expect them to model them going forward so won't have to redo stuff.

 

[Xun]

Well, content too I would say.

Definitely.

Forza is still very much relevant in my eyes because I prefer how it plays personally.

Both together though and you have the two best sims.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Isn't that because of 3D?

I hope not, cause that feature is fucking useless :S

 

[LiquidMetal14]

When people say GT5 wins we're speaking surely of graphics?

Forza 3 plays really fucking well still, as I'm sure GT5 does.

GT5 has practically rebuilt the entire way the cars handle. And they have proven that it is the best of the best. Read their Motortrend or any other enthusiast interviews with Kaz, this is the real deal.

Definitely.

Forza is still very much relevant in my eyes because I prefer how it plays personally.

Both together though and you have the two best sims.

Except there is absolutely no comparison now. GT5 is high on its own mountain. Read up on the crazy work PD has done to make sure this is the best handling driver around. The rest of the game speaks for itself. The content is second to none.

 

[Pepto]

It surpassed 2 million worldwide as of February 2010.

Does anyone (amar?) have the current numbers?

 

[StuBurns]

The cars in GT 5 are model above PS3 specs .
That how i expect them to model them going forward so won't have to redo stuff.

That is true of basically everything though.

 

[Eccocid]

The biggest difference between them is;
Gran Turismo had became a brand on its own.
Forza is just another racing game.

 

[Voyevoda007]

Yep, I think that they reached some kind of "dead end", in the GT comparations.

They won't be able to match GT5 graphics, specially if they have to obey the no mandatory installation policy.

They won't be able to overpass GT5 by content, by the same reason, and also because of the disc size. Optional install for a few tracks and cars is one thing, but if they have to split the content in 2 discs, will be very painfully.

And they won't be able to beat the budget of GT (because of sales), so I don't think they will be able to get more official licenses than GT.

And GT is full of features, from headtracking to track creation or b-spec, so i find it difficult to beat them in this...

I don't have any clue about what Forza team will focus for the next game.

They will probably split the content in to 2 discs. They have no choice. Add more cars and improve the graphic. Probably some sort of natal support.

Honestly, I hope GT kicks their ass......Don't like people that talk shit.

 

[Truespeed]

Well, to be honest, it will be very intresting to see the direction in which Forza series will go.

There is no other way to describe the sales of FM3 than modest. AAA title, that is pinnacle of genre on one platform, with crazy marketing and millions payed for licenses, development and such, and with more than 35 million consoles on market at release time should have sold better than actual numbers of FM3.

Also, when you look at online at this point, there is less than 2000 people at weekends-peak racing in Public Lobbies. That is a shame for such a monumentaly-funded franchise just 10 months after release.

Also, they will have serious problems with catching up Polyphony at this point in too many fields. Even if we presume they can make weather and changeable day/night (they have Bizzare's tech ready at rigs), probem actualy lies in something else - in-game structure and features.

From what we have seen, GT5 will bring drastical in-game structure, new way of execution of carrer, fully licenced career-events, deep and hard-core orientedd online (Track Days and My Lounge section at first), expanded B-Spec mode with Gran Turismo Anywhere function, create&play philosophy through Course Maker and upgraded ownership-philosophy aproach that no other game has yet come even close.

And all of those options/features in-game structure-wise have clearly been made as new foundation, in order to being expanded in the next game (GT6 will obviusly come on PS3 in next 2-3 years). So, everything that GT5 is lacking will probably be executioned oin GT6, in the similar way GT4 delivered 3X more content features than GT3 for example. Having foundations like those just shows what monumental work have they done in previous years, managing the frame they can now expand flawlessly for probably almost a decade. When I see GT5, I see GT6. I see all cars being Premium, I see weather/time of day on every track, I see revamped 3D support (when even more people will actually have 3D sets), expanded Course Maker feature, expanded GT Anywhere feature, expanded online and community features and futher improvements in all fields we probably do not think about. They have knowledge, tech, money and crazy amount of ideas to do it.

I really do not know what T10 - or any other developer/franchise to be honest - have in their sleeves to compete with such a overall-bahamuth as GT5 undoubtfully is.

This way or another, I was very intrigued by the fact Microsoft didn't show us new Project Gotham at this year E3, and in November we will be less than 6 months to E3 2011. All eyes will be at MS and T10 to show their answer at GT5 and it will be very intresting to see what have they done.

Unless Microsoft decides to remove their leash from Turn 10, give them an unlimited development budget and a mandate to ship only when the game is done it will never approach the scope of GT. It is, after all, rather futile trying to compete when you don't have the resources or time. If their objective was to create the best racing experience on the 360 then they've accomplished that. If their objective was to create the best racing game of this console generation then it hasn't worked out. Turn 10 should just continue to do their own thing and continue innovating rather than trying to include the kitchen sink. FM has some rather nice features not found in other racing games and they just need to expand on these.

 

[Metalmurphy]

They will probably split the content in to 2 discs. They have no choice. Add more cars and improve the graphic. Probably some sort of natal support.

Honestly, I hope GT kicks their ass......Don't like people that talk shit.

F3 is already on two discs.

 

[Iknos]

it's no longer a comparison thread anymore. Gran Turismo 5 in its current incarnation has swept all the competition away. it's really not even remotely close anymore.

You do realize that things like night/day and weather were planned for Forza 3 right?

Those features are expected for FM4.

Its like we couldn't compare GT5P to FM3...and now we can't compare FM3 to GT5.

So it might be unfair to compare GT5 to FM4.

I mean I agree, they asked for it...

...but I mean, at this point, the thread serves little purpose. We KNOW the answer now.

Don't. I'll be doing an exhaustive comparison between both games. There are still areas where FM3 is clearly superior and vice versa.

Neither presents the definitive title. Put them both together and add a little Race Pro and iRacing and you have the definitive racer.

Didnt all this start after Forza 2? I thought I remember Turn10 having a respectable amount of modesty before they started Don Kinging Forza 3.

Yes.

GT5 has practically rebuilt the entire way the cars handle.

They had to...FM3 clearly had better physics over Prologue.

Kaz explicitly stated they worked on the tire model.

 

[Voyevoda007]

F3 is already on two discs.

Yeah, I forget about that.

 

[TheOddOne]

You do realize that things like night/day and weather were planned for Forza 3 right?

What? Do tell.

 

[Voyevoda007]

You do realize that things like night/day and weather were planned for Forza 3 right?

Where did you get this from? Link

 

[chubigans]

You do realize that things like night/day and weather were planned for Forza 3 right?

I don't get your post. Should we be commending Turn 10 for thinking about adding these things?

I mean, of course they'll have all of that in Forza 4. If they didn't, they'd be way behind GT5.

Don't. I'll be doing an exhaustive comparison between both games. There are still areas where FM3 is clearly superior and vice versa.

I love your certainty when you don't even have the game yet. :lol

Yeah, I'm sure that'll be an unbiased comparison when you're already giving Forza the crown in a few "areas".

 

[Iknos]

What? Do tell.

Check the official Forza thread we discussed this long ago. Will get you a link might take some time I lost all my bookmarks.

I love your certainty when you don't even have the game yet. :lol

There are some aspects that PD doesn't seem interested in dabbling in like an Auction House and stuff like that. It could be in GT5 but I don't think its likely because they worked on so much in other departments.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

It's still interesting to hypothesize on FM4. At this point GT5 is on its own plane. Whoever said that Forza influenced GT is the one who really doesn't know how things work. If anyone influenced one it's GT5 who put the racing genre on the map like it never had been done before with GT1.

 

[KingDizzi]

The biggest difference between them is;
Gran Turismo had became a brand on its own.
Forza is just another racing game.

I actually agree with this, GT has now made it's own little niche in the sim genre nothing can touch. GT is a phenomenon, it's not that Forza games sell badly it's that compared to GT most games sell like shit. Mario Kart, NFS and GT rule the racing genre, been like that for many years now and don't see it changing anytime soon. In comparison to other games out there Forza sales are still more than decent, it sold 2 million very quickly which is great for most franchises but nothing compared to the big 3.

They weren't influenced by them, but weren't PD taking notes whilst seeing an early build of the game?

The suggested lines (as far as I recall) was "first" in Forza, no?

:lol :lol :lol

Here's a hint: Take everything che says with a grain of salt

 

[DangerousDave]

F3 is already on two discs.

Yeah, but as far as I remember, the second disc is not essential. Is more like some DLC already bundled in the game.

But if they enhance the graphics, and also creating more content, day-night in tracks, etc, they'll find out that the content of the first disc is not enough to deliver a full "campaign mode", so they'll need to make the second disc installation mandatory.

 

[Xun]

It's still interesting to hypothesize on FM4. At this point GT5 is on its own plane. Whoever said that Forza influenced GT is the one who really doesn't know how things work. If anyone influenced one it's GT5 who put the racing genre on the map like it never had been done before with GT1.

They weren't influenced by them, but weren't PD taking notes whilst seeing an early build of the game?

The suggested lines (as far as I recall) was "first" in Forza, no?

 

[Conceited]

I could be wrong here, but isn't GT5rologue still ahead of FM3 in sales?

Doesn't that say enough about how huge GT is as a franchise?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I think Forza had 5 years of this generation all to themselves and they did anything but disappoint. that said, the next couple appear to belong to Gran Turismo. I'd like to see the next Forza game as an Xbox 720 launch title.

And while GT is undoubtedly the prettier game, I'm more interested in if the physics engine underneath (tire deformation, impact of damaged spoilers and damaged parts on your car) and if that compares favorably with Forza 3.

I know a lot of pretty girls out there who lack a little in the substance area. Until we have it in our hands, we won't know for sure if GT is one of those pretty girls or not.

I could be wrong here, but isn't GT5rologue still ahead of FM3 in sales?

Doesn't that say enough about how huge GT is as a franchise?

why would anyone care? I think everyone knows that GT is the more established franchise. It's been about which was the better game over the last few iterations. And the better game has been produced by Turn10 since 2004.

 

[Voyevoda007]

They weren't influenced by them, but weren't PD taking notes whilst seeing an early build of the game?

The suggested lines (as far as I recall) was "first" in Forza, no?

The translator was taking notes.

 

[StuBurns]

I could be wrong here, but isn't GT5rologue still ahead of FM3 in sales?

Doesn't that say enough about how huge GT is as a franchise?

It's miles ahead. It's also cheaper, but the install base was a lot smaller, not sure it really says anything other than people still like GT.

I wonder why FZ doesn't sell better actually.

 

[Flavius]

Check the official Forza thread we discussed this long ago. Will get you a link might take some time I lost all my bookmarks.

Not saying you're incorrect here, but I find it hard to believe Turn10 ever seriously considered day/night cycles when they don't even feature that all important "night" part in the final product.

 

[Xun]

I think Forza had 5 years of this generation all to themselves and they did anything but disappoint. that said, the next couple appear to belong to Gran Turismo. I'd like to see the next Forza game as an Xbox 720 launch title.

And while GT is undoubtedly the prettier game, I'm more interested in if the physics engine underneath (tire deformation, impact of damaged spoilers and damaged parts on your car) and if that compares favorably with Forza 3.

I know a lot of pretty girls out there who lack a little in the substance area. Until we have it in our hands, we won't know for sure if GT is one of those pretty girls or not.

why would anyone care? I think everyone knows that GT is the more established franchise. It's been about which was the better game over the last few iterations. And the better game has been produced by Turn10 since 2004.

Definitely.

Unless we have it in our hands we won't know which feels better.

 

[Truespeed]

I could be wrong here, but isn't GT5rologue still ahead of FM3 in sales?

Doesn't that say enough about how huge GT is as a franchise?

2.5x

 

[AndyD]

It's still interesting to hypothesize on FM4. At this point GT5 is on its own plane. Whoever said that Forza influenced GT is the one who really doesn't know how things work. If anyone influenced one it's GT5 who put the racing genre on the map like it never had been done before with GT1.

Right. As to Forza, it will be interesting to see what approach they take. Maybe they will try to match/top GT5, or maybe they won't, and they will focus on other areas. I very much like their livery editor, and after playing around with it and with a similar one in Modnation Racers, a solidly build editor, with a good system for importing graphics can really add an interesting new dimension to the experience. It improves the feeling of ownership and distinction from everyone else's car, much like performance customizations do.

I have Iknos on ignore, so I only got the bit others quoted from his post but I would like for him to tell us more of his insider knowledge into future Forzas and cut features from past ones and why that happened.

They weren't influenced by them, but weren't PD taking notes whilst seeing an early build of the game?

That was a quote from Che, the T10 community rep, who was caught in so many lies that he has sort of left this thread. So who knows whether its really true.

Also as to notes, it could be anything, Kaz does not speak English so the translator is always with him and always writes down everything he translates.

Also Che He is no longer with T10, he now works for someone else.

The suggested lines (as far as I recall) was "first" in Forza, no?

No, other games had that before Forza, including Gran Turismo series. Forza did have the first line that changes colors I believe.

 

[Voyevoda007]

Right. As to Forza, it will be interesting to see what approach they take. Maybe they will try to match/top GT5, or maybe they won't, and they will focus on other areas.

I have Iknos on ignore, so I only got the bit you quoted from his post but I would like for him to tell us more of his insider knowledge into future Forzas and cut features from past ones and why that happened.



That was a quote from Che, the T10 community rep, who was caught in so many lies that he has sort of left this thread. So who knows whether its really true.

Also as to notes, it could be anything, Kaz does not speak English so the translator is always with him and always writes down everything he translates.

Also Che He is no longer with T10, he now works for someone else.



No, other games had that before Forza, including Gran Turismo series.

Che is no longer with turn 10. When did this happen?.

 

[Xun]

Right. As to Forza, it will be interesting to see what approach they take. Maybe they will try to match/top GT5, or maybe they won't, and they will focus on other areas.

I have Iknos on ignore, so I only got the bit you quoted from his post but I would like for him to tell us more of his insider knowledge into future Forzas and cut features from past ones and why that happened.



That was a quote from Che, the T10 community rep, who was caught in so many lies that he has sort of left this thread. So who knows whether its really true.

Also as to notes, it could be anything, Kaz does not speak English so the translator is always with him and always writes down everything he translates.

Also Che He is no longer with T10, he now works for someone else.



No, other games had that before Forza, including Gran Turismo series.

Hence why I said "first" instead of first.

What GT included it?

Edit: Just noticed your edit, I knew Forza had the coloured line thing before GT, that's what I was referring to.

 

[Flavius]

why would anyone care? I think everyone knows that GT is the more established franchise. It's been about which was the better game over the last few iterations. And the better game has been produced by Turn10 since 2004.

I'm enjoying your posting.

Better game over the last few iterations? I suppose if you want to count Prologue, you can at least say Forza was around for one of them.

 

[Iknos]

Well, to be honest, it will be very intresting to see the direction in which Forza series will go.

There is no other way to describe the sales of FM3 than modest. AAA title, that is pinnacle of genre on one platform, with crazy marketing and millions payed for licenses, development and such, and with more than 35 million consoles on market at release time should have sold better than actual numbers of FM3.

There is one good reason not to buy FM3...and that is wheel support. I would not have enjoyed the game as much with the shitty MS Wheel as I have with the Fanatec wheel.

Why buy a sim when you can't really play it like it is meant to be played?

Also, when you look at online at this point, there is less than 2000 people at weekends-peak racing in Public Lobbies. That is a shame for such a monumentaly-funded franchise just 10 months after release.

That has to do with the poorly implemented hopper system.

Also, they will have serious problems with catching up Polyphony at this point in too many fields. Even if we presume they can make weather and changeable day/night (they have Bizzare's tech ready at rigs), probem actualy lies in something else - in-game structure and features.

From what we have seen, GT5 will bring drastical in-game structure, new way of execution of carrer, fully licenced career-events, deep and hard-core orientedd online (Track Days and My Lounge section at first), expanded B-Spec mode with Gran Turismo Anywhere function, create&play philosophy through Course Maker and upgraded ownership-philosophy aproach that no other game has yet come even close.

Disagree here...and I think you'll agree when I state my case.

The bigger issue is vision and hardware.

Putting in a track day or qualifying lap mode for online would be easy. It's just like a race but with different rules. You can already stagger start times in FM3's online mode.

B-Spec could be implemented using the Drivatar system.

The bigger issue is vision...does T10 want to do these things? Do they want to implement a penalty system instead of using those unrealistic sticky sand traps? Do they want to have a qualifying lap mode for online races? Programming it isn't the issue.

Career events...really not that hard to implement. Question is do they want to. Personally I thought the FM3 career mode was pretty good so I'm not asking for a change there.

The other issue is hardware. The PS3 is more powerful and will allow for 16 cars on a track. A field of 8 isn't bad...but 12 would be better and 16 would be great.

Hardware also means wheel support. XID means that you only have a few wheels available for the 360 and a really good one being the Fanatec P911TS isn't available in stores.

 

[Trickster]

I could be wrong here, but isn't GT5rologue still ahead of FM3 in sales?

Doesn't that say enough about how huge GT is as a franchise?

I don't think that even the most diehard Forza fans ever thought that FM3 would sell anywhere near what GT5(P) would.

 

[Truespeed]

No, other games had that before Forza, including Gran Turismo series. Forza did have the first line that changes colors I believe.

Is this just console racers or are you also including PC racers?

 

[Flavius]

I don't think that even the most diehard Forza fans ever thought that FM3 would sell anywhere near what GT5(P) would.

Agreed. That's a pretty damned boring discussion, imho. Gran Turismo remains a beast of a franchise. Not a fair means of comparison.

 

[Windom Earle]

I know a lot of pretty girls out there who lack a little in the substance area. Until we have it in our hands, we won't know for sure if GT is one of those pretty girls or not.

So this is Forza?

 

[KHarvey16]

Is GT still gonna have rewind, or was that a mistranslation/misunderstanding? If so, I would think that's a pretty obvious sign of influence between the two titles. Even if it isn't included in the end, if they were talking about it or considering it this would still work as an example.

Again I don't know why anyone would hope this wasn't the case.

 

[spats]

So this is Forza?

I bet she handles really well.

 

[AndyD]

Is this just console racers or are you also including PC racers?

Consoles that I know of. PC games had that feature well before Forza IIRC. But we are in a Forza/GT thread.

 

[Eccocid]

I bet she handles really well.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[amar212]

Is GT still gonna have rewind, or was that a mistranslation/misunderstanding? If so, I would think that's a pretty obvious sign of influence between the two titles. Even if it isn't included in the end, if they were talking about it or considering it this would still work as an example.

Again I don't know why anyone would hope this wasn't the case.

Rewind existed long before Forza.

Although mainstream think it was introduced with Grid, it was executed many years ago in SCAR Alfa Romeo game by Milestone.

So not a real "influence" there, if rewind is even in GT5, which we do not know.