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[les papillons sexuels]

The model is clipping with the wall, but the actual position of the R8 is correct and would account for the collision. Visual glitch, but it's still the right way to go about it.

 

[J-Rzez]

Yuck. That's why no damage smock up is better than damage smock up. So stupid looking.

Now now though, if you guys want to attack NASCAR, go for it, as it was added for additional appeal to NA buyers. But leave Karting out of it, as it's a vital part in many racers career's. It has a genuine purpose here in the game, and it should be applauded that it's in there.

And I don't see how WRC would be fun for "a bit" only. That is the most skill based racing out there, period. Even slightly above F1. I'll be dumping a lot of time into that part of the game.

 

[Atomski]

That gif is clearly a glitch. Ive crashed many a times and never seen anything like that.

 

[Shaneus]

So sad when Bizarre Creations went to Activison.

Miss my Kudos..

Ugh, same. I actually miss the driving model more. Easily my favourite racer this gen, would kill for something identical that just improves on the graphics/sound and has possibly some extra modes.

 

[p3tran]

that .gif is from the demo.
I posted a video some pages ago showing collisions with track and cars on forza. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMCe_2GsKd4 )
I haven't seen anything gt5 yet that even comes close to this behaviour.
here, one can argue that night racing/web browser play/etc is more important.
well, different strokes for different folks I guess

 

[evolution]

that .gif is from the demo.
I posted a video some pages ago showing collisions with track and cars on forza. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMCe_2GsKd4 )
I haven't seen anything gt5 yet that even comes close to this behaviour.
here, one can argue that night racing/web browser play/etc is more important.
well, different strokes for different folks I guess

That video shows just shows how awful it is. As far as damage goes Codemasters is leading the pack

 

[Snuggles]

When Gran Turino 5 comes out this Fall we should all get together and vote for which one is better, we need resolution.

 

[KHarvey16]

When Gran Turino 5 comes out this Fall we should all get together and vote for which one is better, we need resolution.

As an FM3 fan, no gift car, no vote.

 

[chespace]

As an FM3 fan, no gift car, no vote.

:lol winnar

 

[akachan ningen]

:lol winnar

got dang, you are watching this thread like a hawk aren't you?

 

[p3tran]

That video shows just shows how awful it is. As far as damage goes Codemasters is leading the pack

apparently you are judging things from a visual point, not a gameplay one.
there is all this superficial judging of gameplay features here that is almost inappropriate for a gaming forum.

 

[chespace]

got dang, you are watching this thread like a hawk aren't you?

As with any thread, if it's on the front page and it interests me, I click it. Which means I've looked at this thread a few times this weekend. It's a fun little circle jerk!

 

[Jomjom]

As with any thread, if it's on the front page and it interests me, I click it. Which means I've looked at this thread a few times this weekend. It's a fun little circle jerk!

Circle jerk about GT5 while you watch and self gratify to FM3?

 

[Piggus]

Meh, I believe che when he says he's excited for GT5. It's not his job anymore to troll the GT5 threads.

I kid, of course. He seems like a fan of racing games, which I respect. The whole genre has made some pretty amazing progress over the years.

 

[amar212]

There is one good reason not to buy FM3...and that is wheel support. I would not have enjoyed the game as much with the shitty MS Wheel as I have with the Fanatec wheel.

Why buy a sim when you can't really play it like it is meant to be played?

That has to do with the poorly implemented hopper system.

Disagree here...and I think you'll agree when I state my case.

The bigger issue is vision and hardware.

Putting in a track day or qualifying lap mode for online would be easy. It's just like a race but with different rules. You can already stagger start times in FM3's online mode.

B-Spec could be implemented using the Drivatar system.

The bigger issue is vision...does T10 want to do these things? Do they want to implement a penalty system instead of using those unrealistic sticky sand traps? Do they want to have a qualifying lap mode for online races? Programming it isn't the issue.

Career events...really not that hard to implement. Question is do they want to. Personally I thought the FM3 career mode was pretty good so I'm not asking for a change there.

The other issue is hardware. The PS3 is more powerful and will allow for 16 cars on a track. A field of 8 isn't bad...but 12 would be better and 16 would be great.

Hardware also means wheel support. XID means that you only have a few wheels available for the 360 and a really good one being the Fanatec P911TS isn't available in stores.

I really hate to do this kind of things, but this is too much fun to be overlooked and missed just like that.

You're now dancing in the waters of pure blindness.

Look, what you have said above is basicaly "they could do whatever they wnated but they didn't because thir vision was different". You must be joking, man.

Drivatar was so inferior to GT4 B-Spec that it couldn't be comparable at the time, except for maybe on basic-idea part. They scrapped it totally from FM2 and FM3 because it was their DECISION. And they removed one of the game options deliberately. So, lack of vision there.

As for all other stuff you mention - if they wanted to make "game for racers", they should have done that. Not try to sell us "utra-hard-core-simulation-that-noone-can-come-close" and let us all slowly discover all fields that game is lacking.

And idea to add an FPS-based online system into racing-game that already had almost perfect online system is absolutely LACK of vision, not existance of one.

And just for the notice, I played both FM2 and FM3 with the wheel, which is important for my next quote-post.

It was just one example and secondly we don't know if the physics are better yet. The Time Trial was pretty close to Forza's physics but we can't fully tell until we have GT5 in our hands.

There are some modes that will be hard for T10 to emulate...like the video editor and replay editor. But something like Track Days is just a multiplayer mode with relaxed rules. Same with qualifying lap.

You are overstating the differences between both games is what I'm getting at.

Adding new cars or modes isn't the hard part. Like I said earlier the hard parts is trying to get a field of 16 or doing real time day/night cycles...stuff that hardware is going to limit.

But adding Nascar/WRC/Kart racing isn't like making a whole new game.

All this above is pure crap.

You are trying to tell that game that have only pavement-racing in two car-categories (street and race cars) isn't actually different from game that have four-car-categories for an decade (street, race, rally and formula) and that will include fifth (kart) - and have different surfaces for more than 12 years? Be serious. It is difference. GREAT difference. Not maybe for trolls and fanboys, but great differences for people that like cars, automoiblism and motorsports.

You are very well aware about the clusterfuck Microsoft did with execution of X360 hardware regarding peripherals. Even Fanatec wheel can't save the Forza regarding physics, because Fanatec uses the same peripheral-software-libraries as all other X360 wheels, only widened for clutch and 900-degree support.

Steering buffer and constant Stability Control are persistant on all wheels, and we just do not have the idea about Forza true physiscs. Maybe Forza physics is even better than those of McLaren uses for their 20 million $ smulator, but hey - we can't know that. Because there is no actual way to compare it. So, we can only compare what we know, and we know that X360/Forza force feedback physics for wheel is based on same model as one for controller. And discussion stops there. All we know for sure is that there is no actual difference in physics execution if you play with the wheel and with the controller, which is pretty much crap and you know that.

We can now discuss about "tire physics" and such PR crap untill Hell freezes, but I humbly direct you to find a nice and beautiful documentary from 2000, available only from Japan unfortunately, called Gran Turismo Attack DVD. You will see the development process of GT3 and maybe finally realise that "tire physics" are part of every GT game for more than decade now. Fact that you can't have 3-area-wear/heat, adjusting of pressure and visible tire-flex shows nothing but T10 made that visible for the player. But you can be sure GT series have better execution of both tire-to-sufrace physics and suspension-physics that one represented in Forza series. However, fanboyism, PR machines and pure ignorance based on utter lack of actual knowledge about some aspects of GT lead to some very wrong conclusions which become a wrong "fact".

And about TT physics being "pretty close to Forza's physics" is pure trolling, but you know that so I will leave it there.

 

[CrushDance]

apparently you are judging things from a visual point, not a gameplay one.
there is all this superficial judging of gameplay features here that is almost inappropriate for a gaming forum.

And now we've reached a new level in this thread.

All this above is pure crap.

Got damn.

 

[RustyNails]

You're now dancing in the waters of pure blindness.

Ok I laughed a good 3/4th of a minute over this expression :lol I never heard this phrase before and I found it funny and awesome for some reason! I'll be using it in future, if you don't mind

 

[adelante]

Ok I laughed a good 3/4th of a minute over this expression :lol I never heard this phrase before and I found it funny and awesome for some reason! I'll be using it in future, if you don't mind

He wasn't just contented in calling someone out, he felt the need to be poetic about it!

 

[chespace]

Circle jerk about GT5 while you watch and self gratify to FM3?

I gotta admit, internet infamy can be addictive.

But yeah, Piggus is correct. I am seriously excited for GT5.

Photomode will be where I spend most of my time, and it's going to be glorious.

 

[Omiee]

i say GT5 is better than Forza 3 =D

 

[Tabz]

I used to think that Iknos is the douche T10 community manager everyone was talking about
Then I found out that it's "Chespace" :lol

 

[Pepto]

I used to think that Iknos is the douche T10 community manager everyone was talking about
Then I found out that it's "Chespace" :lol

Actually now it's this guy:

 

[Cigol]

"dancing in the waters of pure blindness" would make a great custom title :lol

 

[adelante]

Does Brian Ekberg posts here in GAF?



Maybe he knows better not to...

 

[Conceited]

Stuff

Bodybagged.

 

[CrushDance]

Does Brian Ekberg posts here in GAF?



Maybe he knows better not to...

There are tons of CM's that post on GAF. A large majority of them get respect and do their jobs just fine(Darksiders guy, Jstevenson and Arne being prime examples). I doubt anyone would have a problem with him at all, so your "Maybe he knows better" comment is irrelevant. This whole thread and in general "animosity" has been perpetrated by Che and Greenwalt. Instead of talking about how and why their game was so good, they kept it going until the very end. Yes people bitch but it's largely irrelevant outside of GAF and most other communities where the CM took it upon himself to stir things up. Now that PD has shown the game and it's gone beyond expectations, the same thing is happening in reverse. Look at the very beginning of this thread if you don't believe so, people were trolling the hell out of PD and GT over a demo, where was this righteous anger then?

It's childish and irrelevant. But certain people should not be upset that they have to eat their crow.

 

[szaromir]

Isn't amar this loon that was bullshitting all over the place that GT5 would be released in 2009? Why is he taken seriously?

Anyway, the thread is kinda pointless at this point. GT5 is more feature rich without a doubt, but at this point we could just as well start to compare GT5 to FM4 as they are also a year apart.

 

[derFeef]

Isn't amar this loon that was bullshitting all over the place that GT5 would be released in 2009? Why is he taken seriously?

Anyway, the thread is kinda pointless at this point. GT5 is more feature rich without a doubt, but at this point we could just as well start to compare GT5 to FM4 as they are also a year apart.

Well, it´s pointless because GT5 is obviously more feature rich. But there are people still quoting Forza devs. from a year ago, like that F3 is going to be the best driving sim around. And this was true (minus hardcore pc sims) until this point. Why everyone is using this argument NOW is beyond my mind - it is just ridiculous.

 

[CrushDance]

Isn't amar this loon that was bullshitting all over the place that GT5 would be released in 2009? Why is he taken seriously?

Anyway, the thread is kinda pointless at this point. GT5 is more feature rich without a doubt, but at this point we could just as well start to compare GT5 to FM4 as they are also a year apart.

:lol Yeah no.

Well, it´s pointless because GT5 is obviously more feature rich. But there are people still quoting Forza devs. from a year ago, like that F3 is going to be the best driving sim around. And this was true (minus hardcore pc sims) until this point. Why everyone is using this argument NOW is beyond my mind - it is just ridiculous.

Oh, now we're using modifiers? By the same logic, T10 shouldn't have been comparing a game that was a year or more away and that we'd heard nothing about.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Isn't amar this loon that was bullshitting all over the place that GT5 would be released in 2009? Why is he taken seriously?

He basically gave half of GT5's feature list well over a year before it was announced. And not shit that you could just guess (he was the first to mention the track editor). The guy knows what he's talking about when it comes to the series.

 

[evolution]

Isn't amar this loon that was bullshitting all over the place that GT5 would be released in 2009? Why is he taken seriously?

Anyway, the thread is kinda pointless at this point. GT5 is more feature rich without a doubt, but at this point we could just as well start to compare GT5 to FM4 as they are also a year apart.

Im pretty sure he's the guy that told us most of the features the game would have way before they were revealed. edit: beaten twice

 

[szaromir]

He basically gave half of GT5's feature list well over a year before it was announced. And not shit that you could just guess (he was the first to mention the track editor). The guy knows what he's talking about when it comes to the series.

OK, point taken.

Well, it´s pointless because GT5 is obviously more feature rich. But there are people still quoting Forza devs. from a year ago, like that F3 is going to be the best driving sim around. And this was true (minus hardcore pc sims) until this point. Why everyone is using this argument NOW is beyond my mind - it is just ridiculous.

My point exactly.

 

[derFeef]

Oh, now we're using modifiers? By the same logic, T10 shouldn't have been comparing a game that was a year or more away and that we'd heard nothing about.

Hm? I guess my poor english or something, sorry if my posts sound weird :/
Not sure you can apply that same logic to last year because those feature were not known publicly. But I give you that, I hate when devs state their game is the best in the genre or similar. But to be still upset about it, retroactively, is ridiculous.

 

[CrushDance]

Hm? I guess my poor english or something, sorry if my posts sound weird :/
Not sure you can apply that same logic to last year because those feature were not known publicly. But I give you that, I hate when devs state their game is the best in the genre or similar. But to be still upset about it, retroactively, is ridiculous.

So how could F3 be a better game when we knew next to nothing about GT5? F4 will be better than GT6.

 

[szaromir]

So how could F3 be a better game when we knew next to nothing about GT5? F4 will be better than GT6.

Did they ever say that FM3 would be better than GT5 (other than Che's posts here which don't really count)? Surely the phrase "definitive racing experience this generation" implies that indirectly, but it also implies that FM3 would be better that FM4, actually. It was the best racing game when it was released, scoring 92 on Metacritic and whatnot.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Oh, now we're using modifiers? By the same logic, T10 shouldn't have been comparing a game that was a year or more away and that we'd heard nothing about.

Only back then it was a game that Sony claimed they were pushing really hard to finish by Christmas. Now, with the game releasing almost a year afterwards (even the later Japanese release date of March 2010 was way too optimistic), it's clear that it was only an attempt to dissuade racing fans still on the fence from buying Forza 3. And guess what, it worked for the most part.

 

[derFeef]

So how could F3 be a better game when we knew next to nothing about GT5? F4 will be better than GT6.

He compared it to games you could buy at the time and not directly to GT5. That´s my point. After GT5 comes out, it will take the crown for sure - but people will still quote Dan for what he said year ago, but act like he said it after GT5s launch.

 

[Woz]

He compared it to games you could buy at the time and not directly to GT5. That´s my point. After GT5 comes out, it will take the crown for sure - but people will still quote Dan for what he said year ago, but act like he said it after GT5s launch.

Hey, if you say something like "the definitive racing game of the generation", you should expect to be quoted for the years to come... unless you can shut the generation after the release of your game =P

 

[evolution]

Only back then it was a game that Sony claimed they were pushing really hard to finish by Christmas. Now, with the game releasing almost a year afterwards (even the later Japanese release date of March 2010 was way too optimistic), it's clear that it was only an attempt to dissuade racing fans still on the fence from buying Forza 3. And guess what, it worked for the most part.

Just to be clear, you actually think 360 owners passed on buying forza because they were waiting for GT5?

 

[CrushDance]

Turn 10 studios has started the debate, saying that Forza 3 beats Gran Turismo 5 on a lot of features.
That’s according to this article from GamesThirst, who have quoted Forza 3 product manager Amritz Lay in a recent interview with EurogamerTV.
When asked a direct question on how Forza 3 compares with the PS3′s Gran Turismo 5, he said that ”I believe we beat them on a lot of the features”, giving examples such as the game’s 400 ‘fully built’ cars and ”user generated content”.
It’s quite interesting that he chose to answer such a bold question so confidently, then again he is entitled to his opinion. Let us know your thoughts on his comments.

Turn 10 Studios, developer of the highly anticipated Forza Motorsport 3, has begun to foster quite an interesting reputation for themselves as time and time again the developer calls out rival racing studios with ludicrously absurd comments at demo showings and interviews. While it’s certainly somewhat admirable that the studio is confident in the quality of its upcoming racer, the remarks being spewed from game director Dan Greenawalt’s mouth are nothing short of pure and utter hyperbolic garbage. A recent interview with Xbox360Achievements.org highlights this fact all too well, and the consistency with which the studio lashes out indirectly (and sometimes very directly) against other racing developers is just laughable. Here’s a sampling of the truly ridiculous (and hilariously ignorant) quotes from the aforementioned interview to get us started.

I play a lot of racing games, including PC racing games and I have not seen anything that is even within years of what we’re delivering here.

Really? That’s so weird, because I could’ve sworn I’ve heard of this Gran Turismo game somewhere. And what about that GTR2 racer? Supposedly it’s pretty advanced too. Must be just a rumor.

We have lift, bump stops that can create a hell of an unbalance in the car, we even simulate the chassis stiffness that I’ve never seen in another game... where, like a Fox Body Mustang just twists under its own torque and it means that the tires can’t stay evenly attached to the road. We even simulate that.

Wow, that’s really deep. Strange then, that you can’t manage

Consider it a nice calling out. A polite one. Still, Gran Turismo 5 was called out by Turn 10's Dan Greenawalt.

"I've got huge respect for Yamauchi and what the Polyphony Digital team does, they're a great developer. But do I personally feel confident that it would be difficult for any other racing game to do this," Greenawalt told CVG, speaking on Forza Motorsport 3.

"Gran Turismo is a great game and when it comes out I'll play it. But I think that without the partnerships and without the commitment, it will be very difficult for another team to replicate what we've done."

The "this" Greenawalt is speaking on is the graphics and physics in Forza 3. He says that the game physics run at 360Hz. That's a good thing, I guess. He also says that it looks better than Forza 2, but the physics is where it stands out.

"We still prioritise physics first, not graphics first. That is one of the differences."

Despite the lack of humility, I think Greenawalt is on to something. I need to play a bit more of GT5 to call it, but I think that Forza 3 has superior...everything so far. I've been spending quality time with review code and have basically fallen in love. Forza 3 is f*cking fantastic.

By far the biggest highlight of SEMA 2009 for me was when Turn 10’s game director Dan Greenawalt met by chance with Polyphony Digital’s Kazunori Yamauchi, while they were both outside admiring cars. They exchanged introductions and had a very brief but obviously cordial conversation before resuming their respective car crawls outside of Central Hall. Since Dan and I were both weaned from the Gran Turismo games, meeting Yamauchi-san was an honor I felt should be commemorated with a proper snapshot. From the perspective of a bystander on the sidelines who plays both Forza and Gran Turismo, this meeting of the minds was both a surreal and incredibly cool opportunity for me to witness

“We watched the Sony press conference and we were like, OK so we just brought what we believe firmly is the best racing game ever made, and our competition didn’t show up. So now you can see why I’m fairly bullish. I hate to sound so cocky but the truth is the stars have aligned. I don’t know how else to say it.

“So, props to Kazunori Yamauchi-san and the PS1 team. That said, I feel that he’s passed us the baton. Perhaps he hasn’t meant to, but we have taken the genre to new levels and they’ve stopped evolving the genre. So again, tremendous respect to him, but I’d say the differentiator is they’re old school. The emperor’s naked, and I don’t want to, you know, I don’t want to slap him around, but no game competes [with] us right now.”

Turn 10 seems to be very impressed by their upcoming racing sim Forza 3. While they mentioned the game as the “ultimate racing sim of this generation” at E3 — despite the fact that neither Forza 3 or arch rival Gran Turismo 5 have been released — Turn 10’s Dan Greenwalt said that the Gran Turismo developers have “passed the baton” to Turn 10, and that they now have the definitive racing simulator. We’ll see when both games are on the market and can be compared equally. Forza 3 is slated for released this October

Think Gran Turismo 5 will be the definitive racing simulator of this generation? Not according to Forza devs it won't. Recently the guys at turn 10 have had choice words for GT5 when compared to their own sim, and most of what was uttered being unpleasant to say the least. Well they're at it again, this time it's Forza 3 product manager Amritz Lay, speaking to EGTV he went on confidently talking up the specs of Forza 3 (which any product manager would do) but what caught me off guard was his direct answer to a question most would dance around.

EGTV: How do you reckon Forza 3 stacks up against GT5?

"We've seen it on the floor, it's a good looking game, in terms of the content feature by feature, you know, I believe we beat them on a lot of the features as well our 400 hundred cars, they're fully built cars, full interiors, uh, fully damageable and deliveries just to mention that user created - user generated content really takes our game to the next level."

The guy's pretty confident in speech and according to him GT5 has nothing on Forza Motor Sport 3, which will be out exclusively for the Xbox 360 on October 23rd 2009. You know what's strange? I have this feeling GT5 fans are laughing their heads off, why? I have no clue, just a feeling. There's nothing to scoff at though, because so far the game's looking sweet

These quotes are pulled from various articles across the net. ranging from Forza itself to IGN, Destructoid, Kotaku, Motortend and more. Damn right comparisons will be made and you can be sure reviewers and the like will compare them as well. So there's absolutely nothing wrong in discussing this, here and now.

Greenwalt talked about "slapping the emperor", well he's about to get it as good as he can give it from the media. And PD doesn't even need to say a word for it to happen. You can't attack an unreleased product, hype yours to high heaven and then cry that comparisons are being made. Get out.

 

[Ashes]

Did they ever say that FM3 would be better than GT5 (other than Che's posts here which don't really count)? Surely the phrase "definitive racing experience this generation" implies that indirectly, but it also implies that FM3 would be better that FM4, actually. It was the best racing game when it was released, scoring 92 on Metacritic and whatnot.

Yeah, that's not how it works. Burnout Paradise was like 88 at launch. It's the most changed and refined game, let alone racing game of this generation. Fuckton of updates/improvements/dlcs etc.
Also, I guess, if you are going to be more specific, and say slighlt sim like, I guess you mean't console sim, as pc sims are just generally thought to be better I thought?

 

[Voyevoda007]

Turn 10 started this shit. Kaz gonna finish it :lol .

 

[hauton]

Only back then it was a game that Sony claimed they were pushing really hard to finish by Christmas. Now, with the game releasing almost a year afterwards (even the later Japanese release date of March 2010 was way too optimistic), it's clear that it was only an attempt to dissuade racing fans still on the fence from buying Forza 3. And guess what, it worked for the most part.

That is the most ass-backwards logic I've seen yet ITT.

You're saying these so-called "on-the-fence" racing fans got duped into waiting for GT5... for over a year?

In other news, racing fans have recently lost all sense of time, more at 11

 

[Ashes]

Turn 10 start this shit. Kaz gonna finish it :lol .

I don't even think he's partaking in it. I think it would be best if the official thread title isn't god levels of hyperbole or trolling thread title. It doesn't reflect the developers.

 

[CrushDance]

I don't even think he's partaking in it. I think it would be best if the official thread title isn't god levels of hyperbole or trolling thread title. It doesn't reflect the developers.

Agreed, PD has never said anything about this, so no lame "Definitive" title or anything is needed. GoldRusher will do a good job.

 

[Iknos]

Look, what you have said above is basicaly "they could do whatever they wnated but they didn't because thir vision was different". You must be joking, man.

No I'm not joking and anyone can see that T10 is catering to the casuals with a lot of their decisions. Are you the one that's joking here?

You must be dancing in the jungle of pure ignorance.

So you think they added a permanent driving assist because...they didn't have the capability to do otherwise?

Are you saying they added hoppers and removed custom lobbies because they forgot how to do custom lobbies?

Are you saying they stuck with low poly models in replays because they didn't have better ones modeled?

It is all about vision. Why not put a flag system in their game? Why not implement a penalty system? It has nothing to do programming ability. Everything to do with how they view what a racing sim should be like.

Which is getting increasingly casual rather than increasingly hardcore.

You are trying to tell that game that have only pavement-racing in two car-categories (street and race cars) isn't actually different from game that have four-car-categories for an decade (street, race, rally and formula) and that will include fifth (kart) - and have different surfaces for more than 12 years? Be serious. It is difference. GREAT difference. Not maybe for trolls and fanboys, but great differences for people that like cars, automoiblism and motorsports.

So you proof of this great difference is "It is difference. GREAT difference.".

Ok.

Physics don't change. We both know Kart racing doesn't occur in a gravity free environment.

The vehicles change and the tracks change and yes the track surfaces change.

But if you've played FM3 you know there is a wide variety of tarmac surfaces to begin with. The grass behaves differently than dirt and sand.

If you've driven in the grass itself you would know that they could tweak it to simulate an awesome gravel surface. We noted this in the official FM3 thread. The increased slip angle with the tire catching the surface very well when straight just feels very right and can be tweaked to perfection. They don't have to rewrite the game engine for this.

You are very well aware about the clusterfuck Microsoft did with execution of X360 hardware regarding peripherals. Even Fanatec wheel can't save the Forza regarding physics, because Fanatec uses the same peripheral-software-libraries as all other X360 wheels, only widened for clutch and 900-degree support.

Despite being XID it still works very well. FM2/FM3/GT5P/GT5:TT could all be better in how the wheel and FFB feels but it doesn't mean we can't feel how well the physics were implemented.

Feedback is one thing but input is another. When I turn to the right sharply it doesn't matter whether it's XID or HID...input is input and the car should behave properly.

When your tire goes past its friction circle you should be able to feel a gradual loosening of the feedback and with XID it seems like that can't be programmed in. But that doesn't affect the physics or our ability to see/hear that it has gone past the friction circle. You are focusing far too much on force feedback and not on how the car behaves.

We can now discuss about "tire physics" and such PR crap untill Hell freezes, but I humbly direct you to find a nice and beautiful documentary from 2000, available only from Japan unfortunately, called Gran Turismo Attack DVD. You will see the development process of GT3 and maybe finally realise that "tire physics" are part of every GT game for more than decade now. Fact that you can't have 3-area-wear/heat, adjusting of pressure and visible tire-flex shows nothing but T10 made that visible for the player.

Not talking about tire wear or temps which has been done since the beginning of time. Talking about the tire model holistically and talking specifically about how much more relevant the contact patch is in all aspects of driving in this game.

It's like your are saying that GT3 tire model compares to LFS and then pointing out that documentary going over stuff we all know. No. There is so much more than just those factors.

It is pretty apparent when you play all these titles where the dev team decided to focus on. In GT4 they completely revamped the chassis pitch/roll and the suspension.

In FM3 it is apparent they focused on the tire model. At the same time it is easy to see where they didn't improve...namely weight transfer.

It's not "PR crap" because anyone can play and feel the difference.

But you can be sure GT series have better execution of both tire-to-sufrace physics and suspension-physics that one represented in Forza series. However, fanboyism, PR machines and pure ignorance based on utter lack of actual knowledge about some aspects of GT lead to some very wrong conclusions which become a wrong "fact".

Agree that the suspension physics are better and its not only that but about the weight transfer and center of gravity at play...you should at least mention that.

But the tire physics are clearly a step above in Forza it is rather obvious when you play Prologue and go back to Forza 3 with the same wheel. It should be no surprise since there was cooperation between T10 and the various tire manufacturers and it feels like a definite area of improvement over FM2.

Try even reducing the tire pressure in your front tires and you notice the car become a tad more unresponsive as the tires are bending after the rims are turning. Asking me to watch a documentary on how GT did tire wear doesn't address this.

And about TT physics being "pretty close to Forza's physics" is pure trolling, but you know that so I will leave it there.

Instead of calling it trolling play both back to back and then come back here sharing your opinion. If there's any trolling here it's you attempting to claim I'm wrong but then not backing it up.

Face the facts here...the TT handled pretty much exactly like Forza 3 when you warmed up the tires but only had relatively static tire temperatures. There was no tire wear and the tires cooled rather fast...so it wasn't a realistic mode to compare to Forza.

Read my post on the matter and then come back to me. In fact you'll note that I made it clear various times that with the superior weight transfer physics it will in the end be superior to Forza once you play in a proper mode where tire temps will be dynamic.

PLAY it. SEE for yourself. Instead of trolling my comparison posts without backing your opinion.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Just to be clear, you actually think 360 owners passed on buying forza because they were waiting for GT5?

I don't think, I know, I've seen quite a few people state the very thing at the time. Of course, that only goes for 360 sim fans who also had a PS3 or were planning to get one. Conveniently, the hopes would always get reignited by pushing the alleged release date back for only a few months.

Mind you, I'm not as crazy as to suggest that was the only - or even the main - reason for Forza 3's moderate sales, but it certainly contributed.

You're saying these so-called "on-the-fence" racing fans got duped into waiting for GT5... for over a year?

No, I'm saying that some (the key word being some) of them were duped into waiting for GT5 for many years.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Turn 10 started this shit. Kaz gonna finish it :lol .

Kaz don't have to say anything GT 5 can talk for it's self.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

This thread reeks of desperation now. It's getting sad now.

 

[szaromir]

Yeah, that's not how it works. Burnout Paradise was like 88 at launch. It's the most changed and refined game, let alone racing game of this generation. Fuckton of updates/improvements/dlcs etc.
Also, I guess, if you are going to be more specific, and say slighlt sim like, I guess you mean't console sim, as pc sims are just generally thought to be better I thought?

That Burnout Paradise comparison was quite ridiculous, it's a very different type of game. Obviously the comparison would rather be games like GT5, Grid, NFS: Shift etc. and from that group FM3 is generally considered to be the best one.