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[Metalmurphy]

I've seen you in Forza threads dude, calm down. The things I've defended have been quotes of people who clearly never have touched the Forza games. I've played both the series all the way from the first installments and love them. You must see that the amount of shit thrown towards the Forza series is fanboy hate and not serious testing done by the people saying it?

I can tell you right now the 3 times I was in Forza threads. First time was A LONG time ago, I commented on the fact that photomode was nothing like gameplay, even up to the car models. Another post was about Kinnect E3 demos were all faked and not actually Forza, and the third one was about Che completely lying here on GAF and being owned on the next page.

But this isn't about me, it's about you.

 

[ResidentDante]

They are air brakes. Meant to reduce airflow therefore reduce speed. And it's not just Ferraris

Like this? [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BviO-lfC2u0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BviO-lfC2u0[/URL] (Edit: Ok, that video was lousy to show it, something like this, which raises at a certain speed, and retracts at lower speeds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_QITzEnTHc)

I thought spoilers were used to help stability and press the car down in high speeds for better control.

 

[FuturusX]

I can tell you right now the 3 times I was in Forza threads. First time was A LONG time ago, I commented on the fact that photomode was nothing like gameplay, even up to the car models. Another post was about Kinnect E3 demos were all faked and not actually Forza, and the third one was about Che completely lying here on GAF and being owned on the next page.

But this isn't about me, it's about you.

Context please? When did Che lie on GAF? Just curious....

 

[Metalmurphy]

Like this? [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BviO-lfC2u0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BviO-lfC2u0[/URL] (Edit: Ok, that video was lousy to show it)

I thought spoilers were used to help stability and press the car down in high speeds for better control.

No, like this:

I though you were a racing fan?

 

[Cigol]

Does this sort of childish rivalry exist in the PC Sim space? Somehow I can't see it.

Oh it does :lol

They don't focus on graphics as much, it's more to do with features, physics, realism and how moddable it is - but there is no consensus among PC sim racers, and lots of rivalry.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Context please? When did Che lie on GAF? Just curious....

:lol

 

[ResidentDante]

No, like this:

I though you were a racing fan?

A spoiler that gets set to a certain angle, when braking yes?

 

[FuturusX]

:lol

Seriously...I want to laugh too. I want to know the history, somehow I missed this one....

 

[Metalmurphy]

A spoiler that gets set to a certain angle, when braking yes?

So you're agreeing with me? You think that's for stability and not reducing the air flow, hence using the air to help you brake?

The Veyron rising it's spoiler at high speeds is for stability.

The Veyron changing it's spoiler angle when braking is working as an Air brake.
Same for the SLR, the Enzo, and a few others.

 

[Massa]

Seriously...I want to laugh too. I want to know the history, somehow I missed this one....

I don't keep up with these silly wars but I think that's referring to che saying some Forza 3 screenshots were not bullshots, which turned out to be false.

 

[Metalmurphy]

I don't keep up with these silly wars but I think that's referring to che saying some Forza 3 screenshots were not bullshots, which turned out to be false.

That also happened but no, it was more recent with the Forza Kinnect renders Che claimed to be real time.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Enzo has multiple moving spoilers, I don't think they're used as airbrakes.

But airbrakes have existed in motor racing for over half a century, it has nothing to do with Wipeout... The Veyron's spoiler acts as an airbrake, other cars have dedicated airbrakes.

Airbrakes in action in GT PSP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0EjjkVCjvI

 

[Zoink]

So you're agreeing with me? You think that's for stability and not reducing the air flow, hence using the air to help you brake?

The Veyron has one too. I remember when it was reviewed on TG they said it has as much braking power as a small car (at high speed). Same principle is used on aircraft wings - if you're sitting by the wing you can see the spoilers extend to increase drag when it lands.

 

[SmokyDave]

Oh it does :lol

They don't focus on graphics as much, it's more to do with features, physics, realism and how moddable it is - but there is no consensus among PC sim racers, and lots of rivalry.

Ah man. I guess it's just the nature of the beast.

I'm a GTR Evolution man myself, which game do I need to start trolling? I hope it's not rFactor because I wanted to grab that next.

 

[Metalmurphy]

The Veyron has one too. I remember when it was reviewed on TG they said it has as much braking power as a small car (at high speed). Same principle is used on aircraft wings - if you're sitting by the wing you can see the spoilers extend to increase drag when it lands.

The Veyron works both ways. It rises at high speeds for stability but it also functions as an airbrake by changing it's angle when braking.

 

[Mush]

The Enzo has airbrakes? That's news to me.

 

[ResidentDante]

So you're agreeing with me?

It seems so! From Wikipedia about the Mercedez SLR you pictured:
"The SLR features active aerodynamics; there is a spoiler mounted on the rear integral air brake flap. The spoiler increases downforce depending on its angle of elevation (angle of attack). At speeds above 95 km/h (59 mph) the spoiler/brake automatically raises to 10 degrees (15 in 722 edition), when demanded via the driver's switch, the elevation can be increased to 30 degrees (35 in 722 version) for increased rear downforce, at the cost of increased steady state drag, also when the driver applies the brakes the spoiler raises.However if the driver does not apply the brakes the spoiler will not raise."

I remember seeing a Porsche on a motorway in England rising it's spoiler when accelerating heavily, then seeing it retracting down when braking and assumed this was the same. Don't know if this spoiler could be angled though.

The Veyron rising it's spoiler at high speeds is for stability.

The Veyron changing it's spoiler angle when braking is working as an Air brake.
Same for the SLR, the Enzo, and a few others.

Guess I'm stuck on airplane airbrakes and never thought of it being used like this: spoiler = air brake in deceleration.

 

[p3tran]

well, yeah... "air brakes" or moving rear (& front) spoilers, basically they exist so that they can modify (increase) vertical loads achieving more grip, more downforce.
the reason that they are moving and not steady, is that you want a higher coefficient when you turn or brake, but you need the least possible when going for top speeds.
and when money is not a problem, you can have those luxuries.

the slr in your pic, while sporting one of the biggest moving rear spoilers, actually depends on its huge (370mm) ceramic no-fade 8-piston brakes to stop.
rear wing merely adds grip.
if it was up to the rear wing to stop the >300km/h, 1,750kg 780Nm gorilla, then I guess there wouldn't be a single slr driver left alive.

 

[soundscream]

In this thread Active Aero = Air Brakes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_brake_(road_vehicle) ..........

 

[Graphics Horse]

In this thread Active Aero = Air Brakes

Not sure what you're saying, you scrolled down to 'Aerodynamic occlusion as vehicle air brake', right?

I remember seeing a Porsche on a motorway in England rising it's spoiler when accelerating heavily, then seeing it retracting down when braking and assumed this was the same. Don't know if this spoiler could be angled though.

Don't think those ones are, but I did remember hearing that they lift up earlier than necessary because they're only effective beyond road legal speeds...

 

[soundscream]

Not sure what you're saying, you scrolled down to 'Aerodynamic occlusion as vehicle air brake', right?



Don't think those ones are, but I did remember hearing that they lift up earlier than necessary because they're only effective beyond road legal speeds...

Thats active aero its in there because its often described as an air break when thats not what its called. I can call a ham sandwich a steak diner but its not. It does help with the braking but its not an air brake.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Thats active aero its in there because its often described as an air break when thats not what its called. I can call a ham sandwich a steak diner but its not. It does help with the braking but its not an air brake.

So in this thread it's just like the rest of the world? I give up

 

[Metalmurphy]

Thats active aero its in there because its often described as an air break when thats not what its called. I can call a ham sandwich a steak diner but its not. It does help with the braking but its not an air brake.

It's multiple things... It increases downforce, which immediately reduces your speed due to there being more road friction. More friction = better grip which also take some load of the actual brakes. And there's air friction as well which will also reduce your speed as well.

I see no wrong in calling them air brakes, as most do. They use the air to help you brake in many ways.

 

[Interfectum]

Context please? When did Che lie on GAF? Just curious....

:lol :lol :lol

 

[phosphor112]

Turn 10 should have kept the replays at 60 fps, especially since the vehicles used in replay are the exact same models used in 60 fps gameplay.
I don't know what PD is doing at 30 fps in their replays (besides motion blur and a higher resolution), but they too should have 60 fps replays.
If they are using a higher LOD model at 30 fps, then it cant be that much higher than what's used in 60 fps gameplay.

30 fps has no place in sim racers, replay or gameplay.

Why would anyone need more than 30fps in replay mode... for anything?
If anything, lowering it to 30 fps makes the game look more realistic because it's a lot closer to matching the 24fps of NTSC broadcasting...

Both Forza nor GT need 60fps replays, ESPECIALLY since you aren't controlling them. 60fps gameplay is integral for controlling your vehicle at high speeds... but since you can't control replays beyond a camera, it's not needed.

 

[ResidentDante]

Why would anyone need more than 30fps in replay mode... for anything?
If anything, lowering it to 30 fps makes the game look more realistic because it's a lot closer to matching the 24fps of NTSC broadcasting...

Both Forza nor GT need 60fps replays, ESPECIALLY since you aren't controlling them. 60fps gameplay is integral for controlling your vehicle at high speeds... but since you can't control replays beyond a camera, it's not needed.

I always find that 60 fps looks a bit sharper, so I wouldn't mind to sacrife the replay to looking a little jaggie to get it up to 60 fps. I guess it's just a matter of what you prefer. The best would be an option in both games.

 

[soundscream]

Think of it like the first fast and the furious movie they were calling nitrous oxide Nos throughout the entire move as if thats what it was called. Nos is a company that makes nitrous systems for your car but its not what its called. Also Q-tips are cotton swabs but the general public refers to them as Q-tips. Just because people do it doesn't make it right.

"If your friends jumped off a bridge would you do it to?" Parents around the globe.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Why would anyone need more than 30fps in replay mode... for anything?
If anything, lowering it to 30 fps makes the game look more realistic because it's a lot closer to matching the 24fps of NTSC broadcasting...

Both Forza nor GT need 60fps replays, ESPECIALLY since you aren't controlling them. 60fps gameplay is integral for controlling your vehicle at high speeds... but since you can't control replays beyond a camera, it's not needed.

Film is almost 24fps, NTSC just under 30/60?

Anyway I agree, I prefer extra effects and 30fps for replays.

 

[Guy LeDouche]

murphy and dante need to just duel at 10 paces and take each other out.

then maybe we could all enjoy these threads in peace

 

[Metalmurphy]

murphy and dante need to just duel at 10 paces and take each other out.

then maybe we could all enjoy these threads in peace

"Enjoy" "Comparison Threads" "Peace". None of those words work well together.

 

[ResidentDante]

murphy and dante need to just duel at 10 paces and take each other out.

then maybe we could all enjoy these threads in peace

We're from Europe, peace isn't something that we practice through history :lol

 

[soundscream]

We're from Europe, peace isn't something that we practice through history :lol

 

[Gek54]

60fps replays are like a window to the real world, it creates a feeling of actualy being there witnessing it in person.

30fps replays, meh, I am sitting on a couch watching NASCAR on speedvision...what else is on? *click*

 

[Windom Earle]

60fps replays are like a window to the real world, it creates a feeling of actualy being there witnessing it in person.

So you want to watch a replay while it actually happens?

 

[Gek54]

So you want to watch a replay while it actually happens?

I have watched races in person. And if I ever had the chance to ride in a helicopter over a race I probably wouldn't turn that down to watch it on TV instead.

 

[Xun]

I weirdly like the 30fps replays so I have no issue with them in either game. :lol

 

[Ashes]

I have watched races in person. And if I ever had the chance to ride in a helicopter over a race I probably wouldn't turn that down to watch it on TV instead.

What nascar? Apart from that races in real life are just a few seconds at a time just to watch a car go really fast past you and then you don't see them for a couple of minutes. The tracks being what they are. You literally have to follow the race elsewhere, like on a tv screen or something. :lol

Although I would definitely not turn down a ride in a helicopter, even if it is noisy, and you have to wear ear muffs. But that wouldnt be to watch a full race, it'd be to ride in a helicopter or get a different view.

 

[Windom Earle]

I have watched races in person. And if I ever had the chance to ride in a helicopter over a race I probably wouldn't turn that down to watch it on TV instead.

Yes, but that's still live!

Spoiler

I don't really mind 30 fps for replays, but 60 is better, no question. Just because we have a shitty refresh rate for TV broadcasts does not mean that it has to stay that way in other media

 

[RavenFox]

Its hard to tell, really. He has the same sneering attitude of Dan Greenawalt and says implementing NASCAR, WRC and Karting is peanuts because all the cars and physics are already there, without even explaining why F3 doesn't incorporate them. Its downplaying competition, pure and simple. There are fully fledged, stand alone NASCAR and Rally games out there, yet PD is essentially giving them for free here. Those licenses alone must have cost fortune, but don't fret. Its easy stuff. I mean, all you need to do is write 3 lines of code to implement those crazy NASCAR rules. Dan G could write those with his eyes closed.

He's literally dancing in waters of blindness.

:lol I love it.

 

[Apex]

I was only comparing physics not assists.

Face the facts here...the TT handled pretty much exactly like Forza 3 when you warmed up the tires

You not were comparing the handling or how realistically react the cars?

I'd like to know too. Of course you can set abs off. I read there are options for all aids.

Of course not. Even in Prologue you can't completely disable ABS without reaching certain level.

In any case the default braking in the demos has been much improved over Prologue.

 

[Zaptruder]

Think of it like the first fast and the furious movie they were calling nitrous oxide Nos throughout the entire move as if thats what it was called. Nos is a company that makes nitrous systems for your car but its not what its called. Also Q-tips are cotton swabs but the general public refers to them as Q-tips. Just because people do it doesn't make it right.

"If your friends jumped off a bridge would you do it to?" Parents around the globe.

In other words your a pedantic twit that feels the need to harp on against colloquialism in language whenever possible.

It might even blow your mind that many if not most words have multiple meanings within the english language.

Spoiler

That arise because common parlance deems it fit to assign additional or indeed overwrite meanings of words already in use.

 

[Ashes]

In other words your a pedantic twit that feels the need to harp on against colloquialism in language whenever possible.

It might even blow your mind that many if not most words have multiple meanings within the english language.

Spoiler

That arise because common parlance deems it fit to assign additional or indeed overwrite meanings of words already in use.

smh.

:lol

Spoiler

yes, it's annoying to be corrected. You're doing it too though.

 

[Gek54]

What nascar? Apart from that races in real life are just a few seconds at a time just to watch a car go really fast past you and then you don't see them for a couple of minutes. The tracks being what they are. You literally have to follow the race elsewhere, like on a tv screen or something. :lol

Although I would definitely not turn down a ride in a helicopter, even if it is noisy, and you have to wear ear muffs. But that wouldnt be to watch a full race, it'd be to ride in a helicopter or get a different view.

If a race was being shown on two channels, one in 30fps plagued with low motion resolution blurring and one in 60fps with it's crisp carporn action...

 

[theignoramus]

I'd like to know too. Of course you can set abs off. I read there are options for all aids.

also, this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnIjpWHt9E0&t=0m50s

funny,I dont see many gifs (or comments) of these things. only the superficial stuff.

what are we supposed to be commenting on, sensei?

Why would anyone need more than 30fps in replay mode... for anything?

I prefer to watch the environments and cars speed by at 60, not 30 with blur.
For example, the roof cam in FM3's replays offers a good view of the environments from the point of view of your speeding vehicle. This would look better at 60 with no blur.

 

[Yoritomo]

If a race was being shown on two channels, one in 30fps plagued with low motion resolution blurring and one in 60fps with it's crisp carporn action...

It's nice watching either a capture or one of the 50 fps BBC feeds for formula 1 races.

 

[Ashes]

If a race was being shown on two channels, one in 30fps plagued with low motion resolution blurring and one in 60fps with it's crisp carporn action...

Do you have youtube examples...?

 

[Metalmurphy]

Do you have youtube examples...?

Don't think youtube supports 60fps.

 

[Senua]

Don't think youtube supports 60fps.

nope it doesnt, which sucks as i have a lot of 60fps GTR vids

 

[RustyNails]

o.0

:lol what would that even look like?

It seemed like you two missed Amar212's amazing post

You're now dancing in the waters of pure blindness.

 

[phosphor112]

I prefer to watch the environments and cars speed by at 60, not 30 with blur.
For example, the roof cam in FM3's replays offers a good view of the environments from the point of view of your speeding vehicle. This would look better at 60 with no blur.

I'm pretty sure the replays add motion blur to an extent.