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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35

A

amar212

Member
Iknos said:
So you now admit that you are wrong? That is has little to do with programming skill and more to do with vision?

That was the longest form of "I am wrong and you are right Iknos" that I've ever seen.
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Do you think that's air you're breathing now?
 
H

hie

Member
spwolf said:
I think F3 would have sold much better without all the marketing bullshit they did. It is obviously an good game and it does not need such tactics.
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Yeah...it would've sold maybe 10 more copies to the people that cared...or even heard...any of that shit. You can't be serious. :lol
 
C

chespace

It's not actually trolling if you don't admit it
hie said:
Yeah...it would've sold maybe 10 more copies to the people that cared...or even heard...any of that shit. You can't be serious. :lol
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I'm afraid he is. :lol

thisisneogaf.gif
 
eso76

eso76

Member
skyfinch said:
I only play free race and never experienced any rubber banding, in any of the Forza games.
I would have sold the game a long time ago if that was the case. Things I hate in my racing games are rubber band AI, power ups, short cuts and explosions.
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seriously, there IS rubber banding in free race mode.
 
I

Iknos

Junior Member
spwolf said:
well we know what happens when it doesnt, dont we? Besides, Forza adds to the previous entries, so it is not like they build whole thing in one year, and thats why that "leak" refers to some cut features as "cut again" because they apparently didnt make it into F2 either.

While features get cut all the time, and DLC plans also get changed, they really did cut a lot of planned features. It is not like they planned them in 2001 either, i mean when you plan for 12-18 months ahead, how can you miss so many things? That and post DLC change of plans show that something bad happened there.
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There was a lot happening during the development of both games it seems. Tofu R said they were late with FM2 and MS didn't like that and that heads would roll if the same thing happened in FM3.

There were features not listed there that were out of the hands of MS. T10 pushed for USB key support for exporting pictures and videos and MS would not give it to them likely because it would break their closed system. They pushed manufacturers for more damage and it looks like they had a lot of factors that they couldn't control meaning planned features could be outside their control.

Have to be grateful for Sony for being the publisher they are because no other publisher would have that sort of patience. Yes GT sells millions but I'm sure Sony was chomping at the bit to have this game out asap to boost console sales.

There is a reason I tell all of my customers to buy our product for features it has now, because if you over promise and people purchase based on that promise, you are going to have major backlash next time around.
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PD has been taking this approach...maybe to an extreme. Recently Kaz didn't even outright confirm LAN support for GT5 though we all expect it. GT3 supported LAN over Firewire so it seems odd that GT5 wouldn't have it.

PD seems like they will only confirm stuff when it is in there working 100%. It's a good policy and they can get away with it because they are guaranteed a good amount of sales regardless.

And T10 didn't promise weather and day/night either. They probably knew by E3 what big features would have to stay and go. The game was released 5 months after E3 so they had to be realistic in saying what the finished game would do.

I think F3 would have sold much better without all the marketing bullshit they did. It is obviously an good game and it does not need such tactics.
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The community management is not really a part of marketing but the stuff Dan Greenawalt said is.

Claiming your product to be "definitive" is a marketing move and you have to be able to back it up. Stuff they say on a stage or when demoing the game to media can be called marketing...and I think Dan did go off a deep end when talking his own game and talking about other games in his interviews.

But I don't think that affected sales. Most enthusiasts probably never heard what Dan had to say anyways...probably more noticed that a decent 900 degree wheel was hard to come by and didn't want to play a sim without a decent wheel.

Speaking of "outside of T10's control" the wheel was another aspect. They couldn't force MS to make a good wheel. At the same time T10 decided not to fully support a 900 degree wheel by removing the permanent steering assist so I can't say all aspects of the wheel support were outside their control.

amar212 said:
Do you think that's air you're breathing now?
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Don't mean to pick on you amar but you should do yourself a favor and reread our entire conversation. I'm being a nice guy and just leaving it at that.
 
S

spwolf

Member
chespace said:
I'm afraid he is. :lol

thisisneogaf.gif
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lol, so if bullshit was read only by small community and so deemed irrelevant, why bullshit in the first place? whats the point?

And what exactly thisisneogaf means? I am so sorry for people calling you out for bullshit. Hey politicians can talk crap and never follow up, why not you, right? :lol
 
P

Pepto

Banned
spwolf said:
I think F3 would have sold much better without all the marketing bullshit they did. It is obviously an good game and it does not need such tactics.
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So how many copies did Forza 3 sell?
 
A

antiquegamer

Member
chespace said:
Proud of the game in general. You oughta try it sometime. 360's are cheap these days.
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I don't get this either, it's a good game. I have tons of fun with it. Sim racing genre is already limited in what available so I don't understand why anyone would choose to not play a game base on some fanboy ideology.

Not saying Forza 3 doesn't have its flows so what if you don't like the PR or their community manager, I don't see how that would lessen how much enjoyment you can have with any game.

I like Forza 3 but it's not going to stop me from having fun with GT5, heck I bought PS3 just for it.
 
Ploid 3.0

Ploid 3.0

Member
I'm sure if Forza 3 sold GT like numbers we be reminded of it by Microsoft countless times. What matters though, is that they seem to have sold enough for another Forza game this year.
 
P

Pepto

Banned
gundamkyoukai said:
This post make no sense , we have the number for GT5 pro and we have last set of numbers for Forza 3 a while ago.
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The Forza 3 numbers are from february... The 2 million number took something like two and a half months and People seem to think the numbers have stayed the same. Hard to compare numbers of you only know one...
 
R

REMEMBER CITADEL

Banned
gundamkyoukai said:
This post make no sense , we have the number for GT5 pro and we have last set of numbers for Forza 3 a while ago.
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Actually, as far as the official numbers go, we have overall numbers for GT5P, but we never got overall numbers for Forza 3. We got that 2 million figure back in February (although I believe several months later Che said that it got closer to 3 million - feel fee to correct me on that one, Che), but those were just standalone sales, bundled copies not included.
 
skyfinch

skyfinch

Member
eso76 said:
seriously, there IS rubber banding in free race mode.
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I don't know. Don't see any at all. Only time that AI cars have caught up to me, while I was in the lead, was when I made a mistake. I do realize, however, that some AI might use your draft to gain a bit of speed for the take over, but that's only when they're fairly close.



Anyway, probably not 100% accurate in terms of sale figures, but just look at the leaderboards. They were at 2.9 million at one point, then dropped back down to 2.3 million (people probably got banned) and is a bit over 2.5 at the moment.
 
F

Firewire

Banned
chespace said:
Proud of the game in general. You oughta try it sometime. 360's are cheap these days.
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Nah dude, waiting for the real deal come November. I know how cheap they are, went through my own collection of them after launch. :lol
 
Windom Earle

Windom Earle

Member
REMEMBER CITADEL said:
(although I believe several months later Che said that it got closer to 3 million - feel fee to correct me on that one, Che), but those were just standalone sales, bundled copies not included.
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So now we know how to NOT get accurate numbers. Thanks.
 
L

Lagspike_exe

Member
Wazzim said:
So you think it stayed at 2? :lol
The sales getting closer to 3 million isn't bull from Che but just logical.
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Going from 2 to 3 million in a period 4 months after launch isn't logical at all. It's very rare such an event occurs.
 
W

Wazzim

Banned
Lagspike_exe said:
Going from 2 to 3 million in a period 4 months after launch isn't logical at all. It's very rare such an even occurs.
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What? :lol
You guys act like LTD sales don't matter at all, games like Forza tend to have huge legs and going closer to 3 million is to be expected. I mean, every Elite sold in spring till the slim got a copy of Forza (atleast in Europe).

NOTE: I say closer to 3 million, 2.5/2.6/2.7 ish.
 
L

Lagspike_exe

Member
Wazzim said:
What? :lol
You guys act like LTD sales don't matter at all, games like Forza tend to have huge legs and going closer to 3 million is to be expected. I mean, every Elite sold in spring till the slim got a copy of Forza (atleast in Europe).
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I was talking about sales. If you count bundles, 3m is probably possible.

Also, what are these "games like Forza" that tend to have huge legs you mentioned?
 
W

Wazzim

Banned
Lagspike_exe said:
I was talking about sales. If you count bundles, 3m is probably possible.

Also, what are these "games like Forza" that tend to have huge legs you mentioned?
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With games like Forza I mean 1st party AAA games, just look at the GT series itself, GT5P got great sales with the legs it has.
And yes I know GT is a bigger series but I'm not talking about those scale of legs, it being 6K more than in februari seems reasonable IMO.
 
S

Stink

Member
It's quite simple for me. Forza doesn't have anywhere near enough tracks, and some of the ones it does have aren't enjoyable at all (Silverstone, New York, the test track thing). This damages its long term appeal considerably.
 
K

Keikoku

Banned
Stink said:
It's quite simple for me. Forza doesn't have anywhere near enough tracks, and some of the ones it does have aren't enjoyable at all (Silverstone, New York, the test track thing). This damages its long term appeal considerably.
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Do you realize that GT5 actually has less environnements and tracks ?
 
S

Stink

Member
Keikoku said:
Do you realize that GT5 actually has less environnements and tracks ?
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I haven't compared the lists. But it feels to me like even GT PSP has a better selection of tracks, because the Forza selection is just so weak and uninspiring.

This is ignoring the rally track generator and whatever is possible in the track editor.
 
L

lord pie

Member
skyfinch said:
Anyway, probably not 100% accurate in terms of sale figures, but just look at the leaderboards. They were at 2.9 million at one point, then dropped back down to 2.3 million (people probably got banned) and is a bit over 2.5 at the moment.
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Well, if there are 2.5 million on the leaderboards, then assuming 60% of 360s are connected you get ~ 4.2 million users approximate.
Not bad for a less than a year old although it was agressively bundled so I doubt it can be used to guess direct sales.
 
W

Wazzim

Banned
Stink said:
I haven't compared the lists. But it feels to me like even GT PSP has a better selection of tracks, because the Forza selection is just so weak and uninspiring.

This is ignoring the rally track generator and whatever is possible in the track editor.
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Yup track editor will be epic.
 
S

Stink

Member
Keikoku said:
20 environnements in GT5, 23 in Forza 3.
70 tracks in GT5, almost the double in Forza 3.
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Wikipedia lists a lot more environments than that for GT5. Not sure how true it is.
 
A

AndyD

aka andydumi
Keikoku said:
20 environnements in GT5, 23 in Forza 3.
70 tracks in GT5, almost the double in Forza 3.
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Are those GT5 numbers something you verified in the final game? Because those were a projection from long ago and it was always "more than" if I remember right.

Also, do your variations include reverses? Or simply different unique layouts in the same environment?

That's why I asked if you have solid final numbers for GT.
 
K

Keikoku

Banned
Saiyar said:
No DLC tracks?
There are 25 tracks in FM3, 3 of which are DLC. there are currently 27 confirmed tracks for GT5.
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Except the nurb as an environnement is available in the original game. But yeah I forgot about this one. So you might want to count that in the tracks list, not the environnements list. Anyway Forza has much more tracks than GT5, almost the double if I recall correctly. Environnements is pretty much a tie (I thought GT5 had something like 20/21, my bad if not)
Both games include reverse in the tracklist I think. I'm not sure about that though.
 
B

BSTF

this post rates 1/10
Keikoku said:
Except the nurb as an environnement is available in the original game. But yeah I forgot about this one. So you might want to count that in the tracks list, not the environnements list. Anyway Forza has much more tracks than GT5, almost the double if I recall correctly. Environnements is pretty much a tie (I thought GT5 had something like 20/21, my bad if not)
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GT5 has an infinite number of tracks.
 
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