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[RustyNails]

what are we supposed to be commenting on, sensei?

I think he's trying to show us how shitty that guy is.

 

[commedieu]

I though you were a racing fan?

No, hes a Forza fan. Whats an airbrake.. jesus.. really?

 

[Iknos]

Turn 10 should have kept the replays at 60 fps, especially since the vehicles used in replay are the exact same models used in 60 fps gameplay.
I don't know what PD is doing at 30 fps in their replays (besides motion blur and a higher resolution), but they too should have 60 fps replays.
If they are using a higher LOD model at 30 fps, then it cant be that much higher than what's used in 60 fps gameplay.

30 fps has no place in sim racers, replay or gameplay.

According to disgruntled T10 employee it looks like they were planning better models for replays but cut that out.

PD has amazing models in gameplay at 60fps so that isn't the reason why it's 30fps in replays. Motion blur is added but you have ot realize that some of the replay angles show a lot of the track and when you zoom out like that there is so much more on screen.

GT's replay angles are much like the real life race footage angles on TV...and sometimes that means showing a huge subsection of the track with at least 10 cars in view.

So 30 fps makes sense.

An assist which cannot be disabled is no longer an assist, but part of the overall physics of the game.

You can say its an overall part of the "handling" that is a better way of putting it.

While racing the handling feels normal. Start messing up and trying to correct mistakes the assists kick in and make it easier.

Half the fun for myself anyways since I'm not a good racer is fooling around with these cars and pushing them to their limits. When assists kick in at that point it takes away the fun. Nothing more adrenaline pumping than correcting a seemingly impossible fishtail.

So there's physics. On top of that are the assists. That in the end results in the handling. There are plenty of wheel assists in GT to help new drivers if you go to the wheel settings in options. None of those assists affect the physics...which you can set yourself.

To have a 'sim' step in and drive for you because you are not driving the way it thinks you want to be driving is TOTAL BS.

It is. Would not mind it at all if it were optional.

Just a kind advice. I just don't think anyone will trust you on this topic after this post:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=23282882&postcount=4246

Yeah so I slag fanboys and it affects my ability to compare games?

Its hard to tell, really. He has the same sneering attitude of Dan Greenawalt and says implementing NASCAR, WRC and Karting is peanuts because all the cars and physics are already there, without even explaining why F3 doesn't incorporate them.

I did explain why. It is because of vision. Amar already argued against this point you should pay closer attention.

You can already tune cars for rally except the proper tires...and you already have older Nascar cars in the game. The game has a large amount of tarmac and off road surfaces with their own characteristics. The only thing is that T10 didn't envision their game needing these features.

They already had code in place from FM2 for better online...they didn't think they needed it and thought that hoppers were the future.

The game had a 900 degree wheel available for it yet they decided to not remove assists meant to help controller players.

These are all vision-related problems.

At the risk of repeating myself the biggest challenges T10 faces is getting a grid of 16 racers while maintaining 60fps. The video editor in GT5 looks well beyond what is out there for any other racer. Things like that.

Does this sort of childish rivalry exist in the PC Sim space? Somehow I can't see it.

People can buy all the sims so not so much but people do have their preferences and arguments still get heated. :lol

Seriously...I want to laugh too. I want to know the history, somehow I missed this one....

Lets give Che the benefit of the doubt and say that he and the team weren't on the same page but so many things he was wrong about. One time he said that the pics taken for promo pics are about the same sort of pics we can take in game and that wasn't true after the whole compression debacle.

LOL @ "Air brakes" can't wait for the next car pack featuring 18 wheelers!

You not were comparing the handling or how realistically react the cars?

Was comparing the physics. You can compare the handling while racing...but when you compare the handling when fooling around FM3 falls apart.

Went into both the TT and FM3 and fooled around throwing the car around...when I looked at the replays the movement of the car looked much more realistic in the TT. The weight transfer and the suspension behaviour was far more realistic and you tires aren't doing the herky jerky auto correction.

It seemed like you two missed Amar212's amazing post

So you say I didn't say why T10 did what they did...and then you reference his post that argues my explanation?

This only verifies my suspicion that people only read what they want to read.

 

[commedieu]

Ao read.

Forza 3 has rubber-banding too, that you cant cut off.

Che should have double checked the information before getting caught in lie after lie after lie. Its not like he was some random blogger with no connection to T10. They told the crowd stuff they wanted to hear in order to buy the game. It just didn't fool the large # of 360 owners out there, which is why people spoke with their wallets. But it seems that Turn10's entire company isn't professional. Every public interview/video shows them to be very childish compared to those at Naughty Dog/Sucker Punch/Epic/Insomniac/Polyphony. Getting busted on Gaf for working for MS and shit talking is plain silly.

Currently they can be seen totally ignoring promised DLC to the people who purchased the game.

As far as this thread goes, forza will never compare to GT5. It was fun to make fun of GT when there was just a prologue, but with everything GT has to offer, and things we dont even know about, meh... its almost pointless. Physics will always be debated. But 1 series is created by a professional race driver, who's titles train race drivers.. the other doesnt.

Be it time, effort, whatever it is. PD has done what no developer has ever done. The backlash of lol's wouldn't be needed if Turn10 didn't smear PD at every corner. Then lie about their product, then continue to under-deliver.

Forza is a great series, and deserves better than Turn10 rushing it out to hit a release date. I remember dropping GT4 for Forza1. GT stagnated and didn't offer anything new. Forza included exotics, damage, and online. Which was a breath of fresh air. Now what new is Forza doing? Autobrakes & Rewind? I don't call adding polish to an already perfect Auction/Online a added innovation of the series. Nor do I consider removing features from F2 a step in the right direction.

There was something about Polyphony passing the torch to Turn10 that the producer claimed. I'd love to know his thoughts now.

 

[Pepto]

Forza 3 has rubber-banding too, that you cant cut off.

Can you provide more info on this?

 

[RustyNails]

I did explain why. It is because of vision. Amar already argued against this point you should pay closer attention.

These are all vision-related problems.

So you say I didn't say why T10 did what they did...and then you reference his post that argues my explanation?

This only verifies my suspicion that people only read what they want to read.

I'm sorry bro, but lack of vision is not an excuse for explaining why your product is inferior.

Edit: Actually, it is an awesome excuse. Saying your product lacked vision is admitting that it's inferior to competition

 

[patsu]

Yeah so I slag fanboys and it affects my ability to compare games?

Of course not ! Biased people can compare games too. Just don't complain when people think/know you're biased. ^_^

 

[Voyevoda007]

Forza 3 has rubber-banding too, that you cant cut off.

Che should have double checked the information before getting caught in lie after lie after lie. Its not like he was some random blogger with no connection to T10. They told the crowd stuff they wanted to hear in order to buy the game. It just didn't fool the large # of 360 owners out there, which is why people spoke with their wallets. But it seems that Turn10's entire company isn't professional. Every public interview/video shows them to be very childish compared to those at Naughty Dog/Sucker Punch/Epic/Insomniac/Polyphony. Getting busted on Gaf for working for MS and shit talking is plain silly.

Currently they can be seen totally ignoring promised DLC to the people who purchased the game.

As far as this thread goes, forza will never compare to GT5. It was fun to make fun of GT when there was just a prologue, but with everything GT has to offer, and things we dont even know about, meh... its almost pointless. Physics will always be debated. But 1 series is created by a professional race driver, who's titles train race drivers.. the other doesnt.

Be it time, effort, whatever it is. PD has done what no developer has ever done. The backlash of lol's wouldn't be needed if Turn10 didn't smear PD at every corner. Then lie about their product, then continue to under-deliver.

Forza is a great series, and deserves better than Turn10 rushing it out to hit a release date. I remember dropping GT4 for Forza1. GT stagnated and didn't offer anything new. Forza included exotics, damage, and online. Which was a breath of fresh air. Now what new is Forza doing? Autobrakes & Rewind? I don't call adding polish to an already perfect Auction/Online a added innovation of the series. Nor do I consider removing features from F2 a step in the right direction.

There was something about Polyphony passing the torch to Turn10 that the producer claimed. I'd love to know his thoughts now.

That's one thing that turned me off about them. They came off as total assholes to me.

 

[Flavius]

That's one thing that turned me off about them. They came off as total assholes to me.

They are to be pitied, that's for certain, particularly the ones who do it here, then whine about being picked on. The flow of logic is almost Dyack-like in its absurdity. Actually, it may be worse. Did Dyack talk shit about his professional colleagues in the gaming industry?

More on topic, I suppose...

Just put in my GT5 preorder on Amazon. Looking forward to seeing how Turn10 responds, and will have no problem laying down for a fancy-schmancy new Forza title, when it arrives. The shit-talk does nothing for me, to be honest. Just give me some good games to play, devs and community managers, and fut the shuck up.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

They are to be pitied, that's for certain, particularly the ones who do it here, then whine about being picked on. The flow of logic is almost Dyack-like in its absurdity. Actually, it may be worse. Did Dyack talk shit about his professional colleagues in the gaming industry?

More on topic, I suppose...

Just put in my GT5 preorder on Amazon. Looking forward to seeing how Turn10 responds, and will have no problem laying down for a fancy-schmancy new Forza title, when it arrives. The shit-talk does nothing for me, to be honest. Just give me some good games to play, devs and community managers, and fut the shuck up.

as long as it inspires them to work hard and up the ante, let them talk all the shit they want.

 

[Flavius]

as long as it inspires them to work hard and up the ante, let them talk all the shit they want.

We're on a discussion board, amigo...I don't think anyone's needing my permission to "let" something be done one way or another.

Merely expressing my opinion is all, and I suppose you're merely expressing yours...so...peeeeeeace.

 

[FuturusX]

Lets give Che the benefit of the doubt and say that he and the team weren't on the same page but so many things he was wrong about. One time he said that the pics taken for promo pics are about the same sort of pics we can take in game and that wasn't true after the whole compression debacle.

I can't really give him the benefit of doubt as I have limited knowledge of his dealings in the gaming world. But it seems pretty clear that a developer engaging directly on an internet message board to promote his own game, is a recipe for disaster.

Granted it's his job to talk up the product even if the reality is at odds with what can delivered. Every developer talks big. But only a few are truly on edges greatness such that the promises can be realized, and even then, you are only a misstep away from disaster...

 

[Voyevoda007]

I can't really give him the benefit of doubt as I have limited knowledge of his dealings in the gaming world. But it seems pretty clear that a developer engaging directly on an internet message board to promote his own game, is a recipe for disaster.

Granted it's his job to talk up the product even if the reality is at odds with what can delivered. Every developer talks big. But only a few are truly on edges greatness such that the promises can be realized, and even then, you are only a misstep away from disaster...

Che is a clown. You can't trust anything he says.

 

[TheOddOne]

According to disgruntled T10 employee it looks like they were planning better models for replays but cut that out.

Did you ever find that link Iknos?

 

[p3tran]

it was the famous Tofu R, probably former T10 employee that leaked a whole lot of details about the game and descisions way before its time.
google it up

 

[theignoramus]

I can't really give him the benefit of doubt as I have limited knowledge of his dealings in the gaming world. But it seems pretty clear that a developer engaging directly on an internet message board to promote his own game, is a recipe for disaster.

Granted it's his job to talk up the product even if the reality is at odds with what can delivered. Every developer talks big. But only a few are truly on edges greatness such that the promises can be realized, and even then, you are only a misstep away from disaster...

but there Community managers around here who've posted for years. As far as I know, they are well liked and respected.

 

[MGR]

You can say its an overall part of the "handling" that is a better way of putting it.

While racing the handling feels normal. Start messing up and trying to correct mistakes the assists kick in and make it easier.

Half the fun for myself anyways since I'm not a good racer is fooling around with these cars and pushing them to their limits. When assists kick in at that point it takes away the fun. Nothing more adrenaline pumping than correcting a seemingly impossible fishtail.

So there's physics. On top of that are the assists. That in the end results in the handling. There are plenty of wheel assists in GT to help new drivers if you go to the wheel settings in options. None of those assists affect the physics...which you can set yourself.

Irrelevant.

How the user input control translates to what happens on screen is all that matters.

 

[FuturusX]

but there Community managers around here who've posted for years. As far as I know, they are well liked and respected.

More power to them.

But I can still imagine that an 'employee' posting on a message board with comments and shots of a highly anticipated product, that has to be sold in a competitive market, walks a fine line.

Sounds like Che was just by all accounts merely terrible, so maybe this doesn't apply :lol

 

[amar212]

According to disgruntled T10 employee it looks like they were planning better models for replays but cut that out.

They obvisuly planned a load of that, but they didn't deliver it. When I was 13, I planned to be a Hollywood director. My Lord, how glorious was that plan, no?

I still can't beleive the marvelous idea to sell us an 9,99 track that we can't use in SP and we can't have it to use it in MP except for private races because hoppers almost never bring it on.

I can't beleive the marvelous in-game car-cost scheme that become a total joke when DLC finally kicked-in because after I payed the DLC pack with the real money, I have to grind 100+ in-game hours in order to just buy the cars for only 2 DLC packs to have them USABLE in my garage.

I can't believe they gave us RWD hoopers for only 4 weeks, cutting them off "because there was no intrest". Such lack there is actuall global-intrest for other hoppers..

I can't beleive they've produced "Expert" hoppers with "no assits", but they left the ABS and stupid Driving Line to disposal for all "Expert" drivers.

I can't beleive there are no races longer than 10 laps in ANY of hoopers to date, not even for Tsukuba.

And not even to speak about the idea to produce a game with tire-wear as part of strategy and overall immersion into actual racing and than make tire-wear so slow that you never need to do an actual pit-stop almost during the whole game. And never in any MP race, except if you make 100 laps race.

Lack of vision regarding pure game-design, not visible in the beggining of the game existance, but very painful in the long terms. So much mistakes made in order to make "casuals" happy, same people that buy the new game and then move forward for next month.

Whatever Iknos, all this is not worth the time or effort.

 

[Conceited]

They obvisuly planned a load of that, but they didn't deliver it. When I was 13, I planned to be a Hollywood director. My Lord, how glorious was that plan, no?

I still can't beleive the marvelous idea to sell us an 9,99 track that we can't use in SP and we can't have it to use it in MP except for private races because hoppers almost never bring it on.

I can't beleive the marvelous in-game car-cost scheme that become a total joke when DLC finally kicked-in because after I payed the DLC pack with the real money, I have to grind 100+ in-game hours in order to just buy the cars for only 2 DLC packs to have them USABLE in my garage.

I can't believe they gave us RWD hoopers for only 4 weeks, cutting them off "because there was no intrest". Such lack there is actuall global-intrest for other hoppers..

I can't beleive they've produced "Expert" hoppers with "no assits", but they left the ABS and stupid Driving Line to disposal for all "Expert" drivers.

I can't beleive there are no races longer than 10 laps in ANY of hoopers to date, not even for Tsukuba.

And not even to speak about the idea to produce a game with tire-wear as part of strategy and overall immersion into actual racing and than make tire-wear so slow that you never need to do an actual pit-stop almost during the whole game. And never in any MP race, except if you make 100 laps race.

Lack of vision regarding pure game-design, not visible in the beggining of the game existance, but very painful in the long terms. So much mistakes made in order to make "casuals" happy, same people that buy the new game and then move forward for next month.

Whatever Iknos, all this is not worth the time or effort.

Excellent work once again! :lol

 

[p3tran]

So much mistakes made in order to make "casuals" happy, same people that buy the new game and then move forward for next month.

I will agree with this. (not that many mistakes, but still)
T10 should focus on forza becoming more sim and do pgr for the casual folk.
anything else will be a failure in comparison.

 

[Zaptruder]

I gotta admit, internet infamy can be addictive.

But yeah, Piggus is correct. I am seriously excited for GT5.

Ok, ok. Yeah, sounds good.

Photomode will be where I spend most of my time, and it's going to be glorious.

/slams fist on desk. YOU MOTHER-FU....

Expert trolling asshole.

 

[Diablohead]

They obvisuly planned a load of that, but they didn't deliver it. When I was 13, I planned to be a Hollywood director. My Lord, how glorious was that plan, no?

I still can't beleive the marvelous idea to sell us an 9,99 track that we can't use in SP and we can't have it to use it in MP except for private races because hoppers almost never bring it on.

I can't beleive the marvelous in-game car-cost scheme that become a total joke when DLC finally kicked-in because after I payed the DLC pack with the real money, I have to grind 100+ in-game hours in order to just buy the cars for only 2 DLC packs to have them USABLE in my garage.

I can't believe they gave us RWD hoopers for only 4 weeks, cutting them off "because there was no intrest". Such lack there is actuall global-intrest for other hoppers..

I can't beleive they've produced "Expert" hoppers with "no assits", but they left the ABS and stupid Driving Line to disposal for all "Expert" drivers.

I can't beleive there are no races longer than 10 laps in ANY of hoopers to date, not even for Tsukuba.

And not even to speak about the idea to produce a game with tire-wear as part of strategy and overall immersion into actual racing and than make tire-wear so slow that you never need to do an actual pit-stop almost during the whole game. And never in any MP race, except if you make 100 laps race.

Lack of vision regarding pure game-design, not visible in the beggining of the game existance, but very painful in the long terms. So much mistakes made in order to make "casuals" happy, same people that buy the new game and then move forward for next month.

Whatever Iknos, all this is not worth the time or effort.

I agree with what you posted, I like hoppers but the way they work currently just doesn't work well with an average sized online player base, works for halo and cod but not forza.

Tyre wear is slow, it would be nice if there was a x2 degrade option so you can force pitstops in a 10 lap race, but most people outside of custom games would quit at their first crash or spin out. Back in forza 1 me and some forza central guys early in the first forza life did a 25 lapper on laguna, I crashed out on turn 2 and had to pit so my aero was fucked while the magic pit stop crew were able to fix my engine from deep orange to green again, it took me the remaining 23 laps to catch up but damn it was a good race in the end. No one ever does that in public games

But that is going off topic a bit.

I only own the first car pack because of how simple they are included, just thrown in as 10 extra cars, no arcade clallenges for them or anything, at least in forza 2 map packs came with their own arcade hotlap challenge using a preset car, but arcade mode was binned in forza 3.

I love forza but it can have so much done to it to make it better, something the turn10 manager just can't see.

Oh and not having high poly cars in replay mode was a shame, makes most of the default recording angles for exporting wmv's ugly as shit. another thing cut was custom camera positions on tripods :/ maybe they were afraid someone would show up their lackluster replay angles and ghost cameras.

 

[soundscream]

In other words your a pedantic twit that feels the need to harp on against colloquialism in language whenever possible.

It might even blow your mind that many if not most words have multiple meanings within the english language.

Spoiler

That arise because common parlance deems it fit to assign additional or indeed overwrite meanings of words already in use.

Wow what a response. In a thread where people have resorted to the comparison of everything to head lamps, skid marks, tire smoke, hood/roof cam, pedantic would describe most of the people here.

And the examples I provided were peoples ignorance associating the wrong name to an actual product. If everyone starts calling Toyota Ferrari you go ahead and join that crowd.

Spoiler

Twit

 

[Graphics Horse]

Wow what a response. In a thread where people have resorted to the comparison of everything to head lamps, skid marks, tire smoke, hood/roof cam, pedantic would describe most of the people here.

And the examples I provided were peoples ignorance associating the wrong name to an actual product. If everyone starts calling Toyota Ferrari you go ahead and join that crowd.

Spoiler

Twit

It's not that you're a pedant, it's just that you're really terrible at it.

 

[skyfinch]

Forza 3 has rubber-banding too, that you cant cut off.

What game are you playing? I've clocked in nearly 200 hours and there's no rubber-banding.

 

[ResidentDante]

What game are you playing? I've clocked in nearly 200 hours and there's no rubber-banding.

Not in my version either.

 

[Iknos]

I'm sorry bro, but lack of vision is not an excuse for explaining why your product is inferior.

Edit: Actually, it is an awesome excuse. Saying your product lacked vision is admitting that it's inferior to competition

They won't admit it but it is painfully obvious that they made some very bad decisions.

Of course not ! Biased people can compare games too. Just don't complain when people think/know you're biased. ^_^

And those people shouldn't complain when I point out that the only people who think I'm biased are the same system wars fanboys prevalent in those sorts of threads.

I can't really give him the benefit of doubt as I have limited knowledge of his dealings in the gaming world. But it seems pretty clear that a developer engaging directly on an internet message board to promote his own game, is a recipe for disaster.

You don't have to but I was basing it on how there seemed to be some miscommunication within the team and maybe some changed plans. Feel free to think what you want to think though maybe it was a bad idea to confirm things before the game was done. We can see how PD is so hesitant on confirming anything up until the game is done.

Did you ever find that link Iknos?

Yes here is a post that compiles all the leaks. http://forzacentral.com/forum/showt...ills-the-Fm3-Beans-***SPOILERS-ON-2ND-POST***

Irrelevant.

How the user input control translates to what happens on screen is all that matters.

And what if that input control doesn't change if you race well?

The people arguing with me don't know what we're talking about to begin with. Play the game first to find out what the permanent steering assist is all about.

They obvisuly planned a load of that, but they didn't deliver it. When I was 13, I planned to be a Hollywood director. My Lord, how glorious was that plan, no?

They did deliver on some things with a patch after the game was released so there clearly was plans to implement these ideas.

Read the leak again and you will see that what the game will end up being was all dependent on whether they could ship it in October.

I still can't beleive the marvelous idea to sell us an 9,99 track that we can't use in SP and we can't have it to use it in MP except for private races because hoppers almost never bring it on.

I can't beleive the marvelous in-game car-cost scheme that become a total joke when DLC finally kicked-in because after I payed the DLC pack with the real money, I have to grind 100+ in-game hours in order to just buy the cars for only 2 DLC packs to have them USABLE in my garage.

I can't believe they gave us RWD hoopers for only 4 weeks, cutting them off "because there was no intrest". Such lack there is actuall global-intrest for other hoppers..

I can't beleive they've produced "Expert" hoppers with "no assits", but they left the ABS and stupid Driving Line to disposal for all "Expert" drivers.

I can't beleive there are no races longer than 10 laps in ANY of hoopers to date, not even for Tsukuba.

And not even to speak about the idea to produce a game with tire-wear as part of strategy and overall immersion into actual racing and than make tire-wear so slow that you never need to do an actual pit-stop almost during the whole game. And never in any MP race, except if you make 100 laps race.

Lack of vision regarding pure game-design, not visible in the beggining of the game existance, but very painful in the long terms. So much mistakes made in order to make "casuals" happy, same people that buy the new game and then move forward for next month.

So you now admit that you are wrong? That is has little to do with programming skill and more to do with vision?

That was the longest form of "I am wrong and you are right Iknos" that I've ever seen.

Forza 3 has rubber-banding too, that you cant cut off.

No there isn't. The only time I've seen rubberbanding in a recent sim game is in Gran Turismo 5 Prologue.

 

[Neo 007]

So...Just off topic for a minute.

Will there be anymore dlc for Forza as far as cars go?

 

[RavenFox]

You really are a piece of work Iknos. Continue on.

 

[TheSeks]

So...Just off topic for a minute.

Will there be anymore dlc for Forza as far as cars go?

No. They decided to break their promise of "every month." There may be a few more, but don't hold your breath.

>>Forza rubberbanding<<

Uh, what? I haven't seen any rubber banding from the AI in any of the Forza's. If it's there, Turn 10 did a damn good job making it not apparent.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Uh, what? I haven't seen any rubber banding from the AI in any of the Forza's. If it's there, Turn 10 did a damn good job making it not apparent.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[brotkasten]

No. They decided to break their promise of "every month." There may be a few more, but don't hold your breath.

Sucks to hear. At least they planed to do it, rite?

 

[Mollymauk]

Forza 3 has rubber-banding too, that you cant cut off.

Che should have double checked the information before getting caught in lie after lie after lie.

Maybe you should take your own advice. :lol

 

[chespace]

 

[Equus Bellator Apex]

The Enzo has airbrakes? That's news to me.

.

 

[TheOddOne]

Yes here is a post that compiles all the leaks. http://forzacentral.com/forum/showt...ills-the-Fm3-Beans-***SPOILERS-ON-2ND-POST***

Thanks! Reading this made me so mad:

Most of the cuts came about because there is immense pressure to hit the release date. There are careers on the line with this one, because FM1 and FM2 were so late. There WILL be a game called FM3 ready to go for October, the only question has been what kind of game it will be.

Intresting that he says ''cut'', because that means most of the stuff was being worked on so maby in very early stages or just not ready.

 

[eso76]

Uh, what? I haven't seen any rubber banding from the AI in any of the Forza's. If it's there, Turn 10 did a damn good job making it not apparent.

Oh, FM3 has rubber banding. Tons.
In free race mode, that is.
Career mode is absolutely rubber banding free.

 

[AndyD]

Thanks! Reading this made me so mad:

Intresting that he says ''cut'', because that means most of the stuff was being worked on so maby in very early stages or just not ready.

Could be cut from the plans, not necessarily cut as in it was being worked on or anything. Sounds like they had a lot planned, but could not do it due to time frame among other reasons. Too bad, i would have liked to see a lot of that in there, but it still does not excuse the behavior of its employees.

Why then would they say there was nothing else but small things to add? Sounds like simple posturing, which is not a very good idea in the gaming world when your product is not spotless.

And if they had actively/significantly worked in those areas but cut them while in progress, you can be sure we would have heard by now, particularly with so much press going to GT. If they had significant progress on their agenda, they would have said something, anything to try and get some press themselves and also to downplay the impact of GT as they have been trying to do.

If it was worked on significantly they could even add some stuff as significant DLC. Instead they are cutting back even on that. Is the franchise, or at least the third iteration being abandoned already? I hope they aren't forced into a casual/kinect path at the expense of their traditional game model. If anything they should be given a longer leash.

 

[Drastic]

The F3 hopper system totally ruined the game for me. I bought into the "weekly updates!" bs they spewed early on. They even asked in their forums what did we want - and we told 'em - sim hoppers, long laps, no assists, more tracks in rotation. Lots of people asked for this, and they never gave it, ever. They have rarely updated the hoppers. The ones that would have been successful, such as RWD-only, died because it took them MONTHS to offer it.

Hey T10, it's the online mp, stupid. That's what gives this kind of game "legs" not endless multiple boring SP races.

Ex long time forza fan here, bought all 3 and played them all for hours, but this last one was cut very, very short of what should have been.

The custom painting ability was a great bonus for a sim, for me personally. I could get my non-gaming wife into it with F2 by finding cute, different or slick cars on the auction house and then gifting them to her. I'd tell her to log in the xbox and she'd find my gifts and loved it. She actually played the 360 while I wasn't home because of this. Now, that has been eliminated since you can't gift anything you buy. I can't even buy the stuff from her account since she's just got silver and they pulled auction house access from silver members.

T10 has represented some of the most piss-poor community management I've seen. May the people who knowingly lied to us, or lied and then realized it later but did nothing to correct it, be beaten with a full size and weight baseball bat. Multiple times.

 

[RustyNails]

The F3 hopper system totally ruined the game for me. I bought into the "weekly updates!" bs they spewed early on. They even asked in their forums what did we want - and we told 'em - sim hoppers, long laps, no assists, more tracks in rotation. Lots of people asked for this, and they never gave it, ever. They have rarely updated the hoppers. The ones that would have been successful, such as RWD-only, died because it took them MONTHS to offer it.

Hey T10, it's the online mp, stupid. That's what gives this kind of game "legs" not endless multiple boring SP races.

Ex long time forza fan here, bought all 3 and played them all for hours, but this last one was cut very, very short of what should have been.

The custom painting ability was a great bonus for a sim, for me personally. I could get my non-gaming wife into it with F2 by finding cute, different or slick cars on the auction house and then gifting them to her. I'd tell her to log in the xbox and she'd find my gifts and loved it. She actually played the 360 while I wasn't home because of this. Now, that has been eliminated since you can't gift anything you buy. I can't even buy the stuff from her account since she's just got silver and they pulled auction house access from silver members.

T10 has represented some of the most piss-poor community management I've seen. May the people who knowingly lied to us, or lied and then realized it later but did nothing to correct it, be beaten with a full size and weight baseball bat. Multiple times.

You should understand that they had plans for all of this in the planning stages. Just like I had plans of becoming CEO of Microsoft one day. But it doesn't matter. Important thing is that they had plans

 

[TheSeks]

Oh, FM3 has rubber banding. Tons.
In free race mode, that is.
Career mode is absolutely rubber banding free.

Weird. Forza 1/2's free mode didn't have rubber banding at least that I noticed. Then again, I never was in the "Arcade mode" of Forza 1/2 for long. Which is the complete opposite of GT's, as GT's "career" mode/license tests sucks shit through a straw. :|

I can't even buy the stuff from her account since she's just got silver and they pulled auction house access from silver members.

Wow, that sucks dude. I'm glad I passed on Forza 3 after getting burned out Drivatar'ing the singleplayer career of Forza 2 for credits. (I don't like career modes in console racing simulators, can you tell?)

The F3 hopper system totally ruined the game for me.

As soon as "matchmaking" was brought up, you should've jumped ship. If GT is going the same route, they can count me out of playing the online mode. Sure, it's nice for finding "quick races" but generally it sucks for people that want to play a type of mode/race/car that the developers don't think you think is fun. "We dictate what you find fun" doesn't sit well with me. And it's why I hate matchmaking with a burning passion of a thousand suns.

 

[eso76]

Wait, this is not going to turn into the "Official GT5 versus 'what Forza Motorsport 3 could have been if they didn't have to cut stuff because of time constraints' thread "right ?

 

[CrushDance]

You should understand that they had plans for all of this in the planning stages. Just like I had plans of becoming CEO of Microsoft one day. But it doesn't matter. Important thing is that they had plans

Dude I'm sure when FM4 is announced it'll just be them ripping off GT5!

Spoiler

Still can't believe he said that earlier

:lol

 

[Drastic]

As soon as "matchmaking" was brought up, you should've jumped ship.

Yeah, I didn't like the idea but was willing to work with them. Too bad they didn't work with us.

If GT is going the same route, they can count me out of playing the online mode. Sure, it's nice for finding "quick races" but generally it sucks for people that want to play a type of mode/race/car that the developers don't think you think is fun. "We dictate what you find fun" doesn't sit well with me. And it's why I hate matchmaking with a burning passion of a thousand suns.

Actually they can count me out altogether if there are no custom public races. I've read some of the GT5 stuff, but really not paying much attention until we get the MP details. I don't give a damn how slick, how many features, how supa-polished! the game is - if I can't race sim races in public, it's a waste of my time.

 

[skyfinch]

Oh, FM3 has rubber banding. Tons.
In free race mode, that is.
Career mode is absolutely rubber banding free.

I only play free race and never experienced any rubber banding, in any of the Forza games.
I would have sold the game a long time ago if that was the case. Things I hate in my racing games are rubber band AI, power ups, short cuts and explosions.

 

[Iknos]

Could be cut from the plans, not necessarily cut as in it was being worked on or anything.

And if they had actively/significantly worked in those areas but cut them while in progress, you can be sure we would have heard by now, particularly with so much press going to GT.

If it was worked on significantly they could even add some stuff as significant DLC.

They did add the cockpit driver animations with a game patch.

They also released concept art of weather a few months after the game's release and it resulted in buzz where we thought it would be finally patched in.

Who knows what would have happened if the game had a full 2 years of development?

 

[MrPliskin]

Yeah, I didn't like the idea but was willing to work with them. Too bad they didn't work with us.



Actually they can count me out altogether if there are no custom public races. I've read some of the GT5 stuff, but really not paying much attention until we get the MP details. I don't give a damn how slick, how many features, how supa-polished! the game is - if I can't race sim races in public, it's a waste of my time.

I'm pretty sure the lobbies and track days are public custom races where you can dictate a plethora of options.

 

[spwolf]

Who knows what would have happened if the game had a full 2 years of development?

well we know what happens when it doesnt, dont we? Besides, Forza adds to the previous entries, so it is not like they build whole thing in one year, and thats why that "leak" refers to some cut features as "cut again" because they apparently didnt make it into F2 either.

While features get cut all the time, and DLC plans also get changed, they really did cut a lot of planned features. It is not like they planned them in 2001 either, i mean when you plan for 12-18 months ahead, how can you miss so many things? That and post DLC change of plans show that something bad happened there.

There is a reason I tell all of my customers to buy our product for features it has now, because if you over promise and people purchase based on that promise, you are going to have major backlash next time around.

I think F3 would have sold much better without all the marketing bullshit they did. It is obviously an good game and it does not need such tactics.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Shouldn't the title of this thread be changed to

Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison |OT|