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[supermackem]

I tell you what this whole argument has made me dig out my sealed copy of fm3. I played it a bunch at launch then sold it but got a free copy with my 360s at launch. I have to say im loving it again like i did when i first got it, the menus are slick as fuck the livery maker is mind blowing what people have been able to do. Im hooked again as it seems just the right side of sim/arcade racer for me. Both are looking like great games lets everyone enjoy that both systems have a great racer on them now.

 

[Wazzim]

Play the game for a few hours, instead of searching on youtube for "Forza 3 + fail" to fuel your FM3 hate. If you are looking for strange bugs you find them in a lot of games on youtube.

Yeah people who didn't play both games have just to get out of this thread. Youtube videos and screens aren't enough to make up your opnion.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I'm still pretty shocked at everyone who has come out from hiding to say FM3 looks better. Still thing the lighting is what pushes GT5 a bit over the edge though. But your right, I wouldn't have even pictured people praising F3 in this thread cause it's like taboo :lol

GT lighting > just about any game I've ever seen before.

Here's hoping they put the entire team on modeling premium cars for GT6.

if PD gives us 600 premium cars and a bit more refinement, I think everyone will be satisfied.

 

[acm2000]

GT lighting > just about any game I've ever seen before.

Here's hoping they put the entire team on modeling premium cars for GT6.

if PD gives us 600 premium cars and a bit more refinement, I think everyone will be satisfied.

only if they put another entire team on the tracks too

 

[Insertia]

Sorry, but there's absolutely no good excuse for PD as to why GT5 is in the state it is in. PD had a ridiculous amount of time and money to develop GT5. 99% of developers would kill to get even half the amount of time and money PD had to develop their games. There's no reason why GT5 shouldn't be kicking the shit out of every racer released within the last 3-5 years with relative ease.

I think SCE gave Kaz too much leeway, and as a result, we have the unpolished, unfocused game we have today. In retrospect, SCE should cracked their whip on PD a lot sooner.

:lol
I can guarantee you, or anyone who makes a comment like "What has PD been doing" has never touched the game.

GT5 is the new template for future racing titles.

 

[antiloop]

GT5 at least tries to look realistic.

And in motion neither game looks bad...

 

[CozMick]

:lol
I can guarantee you, or anyone who makes a comment like "What has PD been doing" has never touched the game.

GT5 is the new template for future racing titles.

I can agree with this, people complaining about screenshots and youtube vids clearly haven't played GT5, it's in a league of it's own when physics, visuals, and presentation are concerned.

It's literally jaw dropping in-game.

 

[soundscream]

I can agree with this, people complaining about screenshots and youtube vids clearly haven't played GT5, it's in a league of it's own when physics, visuals, and presentation are concerned.

It's literally jaw dropping in-game.

Not all the time it can be but ass ugly at times which is the main gripe. More isn't always better, they should have scaled back there target to give a better overall experience.

The presentation is also not that great to be honest, the menus, and music are for the most part awful.

But the driving the main reason for getting it is beyond reproach.

 

[hamchan]

I can agree with this, people complaining about screenshots and youtube vids clearly haven't played GT5, it's in a league of it's own when physics, visuals, and presentation are concerned.

It's literally jaw dropping in-game.

I don't think that's true. I've found the visual quality to be very up and down.

 

[Shaneus]

:lol
I can guarantee you, or anyone who makes a comment like "What has PD been doing" has never touched the game.

GT5 is the new template for future racing titles.

Really? As someone who's hardly played a GT game before, the menus are fucking confusing and the amount of setting up before you can race is bullshit. Oh, I can choose my race outfit but I can't change it down the track? I have to write a message for when people visit my page... why? There's so much shit that it just assumes you know it's not funny. The menus in Forza 3 are so much easier to navigate.

The in-game stuff is fine (though the lack of mid-race options is strange) but to call this the new template is rubbish. If anything, it's shown that there's no such thing as a guaranteed legacy in videogames. You rest on your laurels or you neglect one part of your overall package and another contender *will* catch up.

The fact that we're continuing this debate after GT5 has been released says a lot.

 

[CozMick]

Really? As someone who's hardly played a GT game before, the menus are fucking confusing and the amount of setting up before you can race is bullshit. Oh, I can choose my race outfit but I can't change it down the track? I have to write a message for when people visit my page... why? There's so much shit that it just assumes you know it's not funny. The menus in Forza 3 are so much easier to navigate.

The in-game stuff is fine (though the lack of mid-race options is strange) but to call this the new template is rubbish. If anything, it's shown that there's no such thing as a guaranteed legacy in videogames. You rest on your laurels or you neglect one part of your overall package and another contender *will* catch up.

The fact that we're continuing this debate after GT5 has been released says a lot.

With a tenth of what GT5 has to offer.

 

[Thunderbear]

Having also played both games, visually I feel there's no comparison. GT5 is just better looking hands down.

As far as features, GT5 is on top too and I don't think that can really be argued (weather, course marker (rudimentary as it is), B-spec, the in-depth photo mode (photo locations), the online aspect (which to be fair isn't working very well at the moment but assuming it clears up the work is there), rally, nascar.

Having said that, GT5 isn't an easy game to love for the more casual audience. It's a pretty hardcore experience. It also has its issues like it's a pain to install (which I know is a one-time experience) and the anti-aliasing isn't the best.

Forza has the livery editor, which I think is amazing, casual friendly features like rewind.

As for the standard cars, I don't mind personally. I think they look quite decent with the PS3 shaders and lighting. But next to the premium cars it is a big contrast and I can understand how that's off-putting to some but at the same time I don't believe it should affect the score. 200 premium cars and 800 normal cars that still look good is pretty fantastic package deal if you love cars.

Do people remember that Forza is a GT clone? Forza was created on Xbox1 as a direct competition to GT because the GT series was selling so well and MS wanted a piece of the pie.

Given the scope and gameplay of GT5, I really don't see how any sane minded reviewer could give Forza 9.3+ and GT 8.5... But I think the sales will be in GT5's favor so that's would be one small victory for Sony.

Anyway. enjoy what you like! I just felt like writing down my 2 cents because I feel GT5 is being pretty unfairly reviewed in the media compared to Forza comparing quantity and quality.

The fact that we're continuing this debate after GT5 has been released says a lot.

I think that more has to do with the console "war" more than anything...

 

[Balboa]

This discussion loses its last ounce of meaning the second you realise if GT5 was Forza 3 and vice versa just retaining the name, both sides would still be tearing eachothers games apart for the same flaws they are currently defending.

 

[soundscream]

With a tenth of what GT5 has to offer.

Have you played FM3. It doesn't have as many in race features but between the Livery editor, upgrades, and auction house it has its hefty share of features that rival what GT5 has in race.

They go about presenting it in a cleaner and much more minimalist way than GT5 does, stop drinking the kool-aid.

 

[Shaneus]

With a tenth of what GT5 has to offer.

Yet they both still get roughly the same review scores across the board. What does that tell you?

 

[eso76]

don't know what he means by "average".. but let's clarify this shit

all cars in FM3 have 4 levels of modeling..

1 - AI car in gameplay (worst)
2 - your car in gameplay
3 - photomode - improves your car
4 - car selection/"screen saver" (best)

Cars in replay mode have the same model as in gameplay. That's it.

i don't know why people still think so, it's just 2 models.
1 for ingame/replay and 1 for menu/screensaver/photomode.
Only other differences are shadow maps (only your car has self shadowing ingame, iirc) and aa (i believe it's 4x in menus and screen saver, 2x elsewhere)

 

[RSTEIN]

I think that more has to do with the console "war" more than anything...

I dunno. The console war is basically over.

I think this thread is still going because both games are very close to each other. What if I told you at the beginning of this generation that Forza 3 would score higher and achieve higher technical accomplishments than GT5? That would sound crazy. But that's where we are right now.

GT, as a series, is still way ahead of Forza, no doubt. But what has happened here is pretty awesome. I played the hell out of the GT series on PS2. Unlike some religious zealots here I'm very willing to admit that the playing field has been significantly flattened. This is a good thing, not a bad thing.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

I dunno. The console war is basically over.

I think this thread is still going because both games are very close to each other. What if I told you at the beginning of this generation that Forza 3 would score higher and achieve higher technical accomplishments than GT5? That would sound crazy. But that's where we are right now.

GT, as a series, is still way ahead of Forza, no doubt. But what has happened here is pretty awesome. I played the hell out of the GT series on PS2. Unlike some religious zealots here I'm very willing to admit that the playing field has been significantly flattened. This is a good thing, not a bad thing.

What are you talking about?

 

[Always-honest]

What if I told you at the beginning of this generation that Forza 3 would score higher and achieve higher technical accomplishments than GT5? That would sound crazy. But that's where we are right now.

Believe me, that still sounds pretty crazy

 

[a1m]

I dunno. The console war is basically over.

I think this thread is still going because both games are very close to each other. What if I told you at the beginning of this generation that Forza 3 would score higher and achieve higher technical accomplishments than GT5? That would sound crazy. But that's where we are right now.

GT, as a series, is still way ahead of Forza, no doubt. But what has happened here is pretty awesome. I played the hell out of the GT series on PS2. Unlike some religious zealots here I'm very willing to admit that the playing field has been significantly flattened. This is a good thing, not a bad thing.

Wait what?

 

[Huggers]

I dunno. The console war is basically over.

I think this thread is still going because both games are very close to each other. What if I told you at the beginning of this generation that Forza 3 would score higher and achieve higher technical accomplishments than GT5? That would sound crazy. But that's where we are right now.

GT, as a series, is still way ahead of Forza, no doubt. But what has happened here is pretty awesome. I played the hell out of the GT series on PS2. Unlike some religious zealots here I'm very willing to admit that the playing field has been significantly flattened. This is a good thing, not a bad thing.

 

[RSTEIN]

What? Both are true. Forza 3 has scored higher and according the technical analysis so far it achieves a steadier framerate and doesn't have any of the tearing problems that GT5 has.

 

[Metalmurphy]

What? Both are true. Forza 3 has scored higher and according the technical analysis so far it achieves a steadier framerate and doesn't have any of the tearing problems that GT5 has.

You can't say a game is technical superior just cause it has a steadier framerate and no tearing when the other game is doing a hell of alot more on screen. Weather effects, double the cars, more polygons on the cars, day/night transitions, better lighting, etc


Anyway, my game just arrived Time to unsubscribe from this thread :lol

 

[Lagspike_exe]

What? Both are true. Forza 3 has scored higher and according the technical analysis so far it achieves a steadier framerate and doesn't have any of the tearing problems that GT5 has.

That's not how it works. :lol

 

[Dreamgazer]

What? Both are true. Forza 3 has scored higher and according the technical analysis so far it achieves a steadier framerate and doesn't have any of the tearing problems that GT5 has.

GT5 can have 16 cars on track compared to Forza3's 8 cars.
GT5 has a higher resolution, more polygons.
GT5 has a dynamic weather system.

...

 

[beast786]

Given the framerate issues and tearing + the standard/premium car fiasco I wonder what GT5 would have looked like if they released it last year :lol

Pretty much like Forza 3robably limited to 8 cars on track, No Dynamic weather, No day night, No 3D, No Karting,No course maker,720p and probably better trees.

 

[Stripper13]

So I just picked up GT5 and played a few arcade races to get an initial impression before I go to bed and head to work tomorrow - I kept away from the GT5 thread because I don't want to seem like a troll and the thread moves too fast for me to even read the replies to my impression tomorrow.

What the fuck have PD been doing for the last few years? Seriously. I chose a 'Premium' (the premium/standard difference is as jarring as it sounds and will affect your purchase/enjoyment of certain cars) 07 Mustang, and chose High Speed Ring.

Started playing - after the ridiculous 50 minute install and long ass loading time - and the cars look great. Was really happy until I went to cockpit view... my car looked good, but I found none of the fields of view really gave me the sense of feedback I got from Shift - and borders on the sterile feel of Forza 3 (which I played - alot).

Then I decided to show my wife the awesome graphics I've been so hyped over. Chose the same car, same track, but in the rain. Went into the cockpit view... what the fuck is this shit. I would expect better rain effects from a PS2 game. I went into my settings both in quick options, and in the main menu... 1080p, no issues with my TV.... everything else looks fine - but the wet weather, on that track/car combination at least - was embarassing.

I then decided that this shouldn't bother me just yet - and chose the Citroen GT Car on Laguna Seca (weather is fine). Started racing... the car was awesome, the cockpit view was well done, sound effects were decent (Forza 3 levels I'm guessing so far - I have a 7.2 Sony Sound System and really didn't hear anything that made me cream). Then I bumped into someone - what the fuck... that's the best sound the supposed 'best sim racer' can come up with? I could record a better sound effect in 2 minutes. Bumped a few more times to make sure I wasn't crazy - but nope... it's the same shitty effect give/take volume... and obviously with the surround sound - indicates where the impact was.

Of course, I just ignored this and continued trying to enjoy the game - and managed to go off the track on the second to last corner on Laguna Seca - managed to skid into the tire wall... or at least what seems to be a representation of a tire wall... we're talking PS1 levels of absurdity... a perfect 'rectangular' polygon the length of the track with a fucking awful texture applied to fool you into thinking it's a tire wall. I then decide to do some burnouts and enjoy the awesome smoke effects (probably the most impressive thing I have seen in the game bar the Premium car models)... and I slide off the other side of the road - and see the awful fucking grass/field/green texture... god damn it PD... I don't know what you have been doing this whole time... but Turn 10 managed to do as good a job in less than half the time - with more cockpit view (albeit less detail) cars and a better online system from what I have been reading.

I obviously intend to keep the game, and will end up playing the shit out of it no doubt - but I can't say I'm happy... this has been a disappointing re-entry into the GT universe (last one for me was GT2) and thoroughly disappointing given how much better this was supposed to be (Press and fanboy hype combined) than Forza 3.

 

[Maastricht]

Go and spend some time in GT Life with some of the Special Events. You'll quickly feel better I think. And I didn't think I'd be saying it, but that Nascar racing is really well done. Anyone who wants a sense of speed, go do that in the cockpit view ...

 

[Shaneus]

You can't say a game is technical superior just cause it has a steadier framerate and no tearing when the other game is doing a hell of alot more on screen. Weather effects, double the cars, more polygons on the cars, day/night transitions, better lighting, etc


Anyway, my game just arrived Time to unsubscribe from this thread :lol

You're unsubscribing from a vs. thread because you now have one of the games? :lol

PS. Technically it may be better to do more shit but it looks far more unprofessional when the devs have struggled to come to terms with the limits of the hardware they're working on.

 

[a1m]

You people crying about the graphics and comparing to Forza.. time for a reality check.

Forza does look nice but cmon, you make me laugh.

 

[Shaneus]

Go and spend some time in GT Life with some of the Special Events. You'll quickly feel better I think. And I didn't think I'd be saying it, but that Nascar racing is really well done. Anyone who wants a sense of speed, go do that in the cockpit view ...

DP whatever but I'd agree. If you're not sold on it, give that a spin... gets you in quickly with the karts and Nascar (neither of which are spectacular) but I think I've just been softened a little with a replay of the first Nurburgring task. Fuck it looks nice. Would be nicer if they'd included some subtle motion blur (it looks far too crisp) but otherwise I am a bit impressed.

If I can bring it up again (ugh) it's still not quite as smooth as the PGR4 replays. The post-processing and filtering done in that is just superb.


PS. You picked the wrong screens to call out F3 on looking worse than GT5... those are some of the best screens I've seen posted here from either game :lol

 

[Yerolo]

^^ I always had an issue with Forza 3's cockpit view. The windscreen looks like it has no glass. IMO nothing comes close to NFS shift's cockpit view, but GT5's is a hell of alot better than F3's

 

[Huggers]

Then I decided to show my wife the awesome graphics I've been so hyped over. Chose the same car, same track, but in the rain. Went into the cockpit view... what the fuck is this shit. I would expect better rain effects from a PS2 game. I went into my settings both in quick options, and in the main menu... 1080p, no issues with my TV.... everything else looks fine - but the wet weather, on that track/car combination at least - was embarassing.

Watch out, Stripper13 was embarassed to show his wife GT5s weather. We should all just trade it in

 

[RSTEIN]

Pretty much like Forza 3robably limited to 8 cars on track, No Dynamic weather, No day night, No 3D, No Karting,No course maker,720p and probably better trees.

The test was done with no weather and same number of cars. Forza 3 came out on top. We can only speculate that GT5's performance would be even worse with weather and more cars.

All the other stuff you listed is subjective. I could argue Forza 3 has way better backgrounds (look at Laguna Seca). I could say that Forza 3 has a livery editor. But it's subjective. Plus Forza 3 is 720p, too. I'm not sure how Karting factors into technical performance... ?

 

[knee]

I really think that Polyphony should've stolen the clutch idea from Forza and put it on R1

 

[Lagspike_exe]

The test was done with no weather and same number of cars. Forza 3 came out on top. We can only speculate that GT5's performance would be even worse with weather and more cars.

Are you actually trying to argue that Forza 3 has better tech than GT5?

 

[RSTEIN]

Are you actually trying to argue that Forza 3 has better tech than GT5?

I'm not arguing anything. I didn't do the test or write any of the reviews.

 

[skybaby]

Can you look around in the cockpit in GT5? Giantbomb guys couldn't do it. They bitched at the fact the default brake/accel buttons on the ds3 are not the triggers, which I totally agree with

 

[krioto]

a big load of crap.

To quote the great Peter Venkman - 'This man has no penis'.

 

[LordPhoque]

you make me laugh

 

[Lagspike_exe]

I'm not arguing anything. I didn't do the test or write any of the reviews.

How are you not arguing when you are talking about some tests (what tests?) and attempting to present their results (what results?) in Forza's favor. The best test you can try out is actually looking at both games. Results are clearly evident. :lol

Can you look around in the cockpit in GT5? Giantbomb guys couldn't do it. They bitched at the fact the default brake/accel buttons on the ds3 are not the triggers, which I totally agree with

So... change them? Takes 30 seconds. Is this really something worth pointing out?

 

[Synless]

The test was done with no weather and same number of cars. Forza 3 came out on top. We can only speculate that GT5's performance would be even worse with weather and more cars.

All the other stuff you listed is subjective. I could argue Forza 3 has way better backgrounds (look at Laguna Seca). I could say that Forza 3 has a livery editor. But it's subjective. Plus Forza 3 is 720p, too. I'm not sure how Karting factors into technical performance... ?

He is saying Forza is limited to 720p. That comparison never states what res. GT is running. Also where did you see that they were using the same amount of cars? LoT never states they used the same amount of cars, maybe I missed it.

 

[Vorg]

Are you actually trying to argue that Forza 3 has better tech than GT5?

Why are you surprised that someone would think this?

 

[shinnn]

You people crying about the graphics and comparing to Forza.. time for a reality check.

http://i52.tinypic.com/xfn6fm.png

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2632/3954377768_38eaac063e_o.png

Forza does look nice but cmon, you make me laugh.

and this make me cry

can't read the gauges!

 

[Ashes]

Are you actually trying to argue that Forza 3 has better tech than GT5?

He is trying to argue that Forza 3 doesn't make people sick with it's frame tares.
Forza is technically better and has a better metacritic.
*goes off to play gt5*

Spoiler

yes this thread is confusing.

edit: @above: damn, and I thought my eye sight was poor. you should have gone to specsavers... :lol

 

[scorpian007]

Don't know if this has been posted yet but: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qotsrSxyqXA :lol

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Why are you surprised that someone would think this?

Because last time I checked people had eyes!

He is trying to argue that Forza 3 doesn't make people sick with it's frame tears.
Forza is technically better and has a better metacritic.
*goes off to play gt5*

Spoiler

yes this thread is confusing.

I have never actually met anyone in my life who gets sick from sick tear. I never heard a similar case of this sickness either, until Evilore and Lince posted their issues with tearing. So, at best, it's a rare case. Similar to the fact that FPS and fast-paced games make some people sick.

 

[SmokyDave]

I've never had my jaw dropped by Forza 3 (and I'm a level 50 driver with a nearly completed event list), whereas GT5 made me say 'Wow' several times last night. I don't know why it looks so much better to me (as Forza is a really good looking game) but it just does. It seems more 'organic' or some other nebulous concept that I can't put my finger on.

As for the actual driving, there is no comparison. GT5 wins hands down.

That's my take now I've played both.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

I've never had my jaw dropped by Forza 3 (and I'm a level 50 driver with a nearly completed event list), whereas GT5 made me say 'Wow' several times last night. I don't know why it looks so much better to me (as Forza is a really good looking game) but it just does. It seems more 'organic' or some other nebulous concept that I can't put my finger on.

As for the actual driving, there is no comparison. GT5 wins hands down.

That's my take now I've played both.

It's the lighting. Forza has a cartoonish lighting engine, while GT5 has a really realistic lighting engine. It's even more pronounced in the photo mode. While some GT5 photos can easily pass as RL pictures, Forza 3 clearly shows it's still just a game.

 

[The Shift]

If I can bring it up again (ugh) it's still not quite as smooth as the PGR4 replays. The post-processing and filtering done in that is just superb.

This thread inspired me to load up PGR4 last night and I had a ball - such a great game. Bikes + full Michelin test track is fucking great times. I need to break out my DC and give MSR a rip one of these days for nostalgia's sake. Does GR still have Monday Night Racing going on?