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[enzo_gt]

guys guys guys

Im sure GT6 on the PS4 will be perfection thanks to the better hardware

And more time, ofcourse. I'm sure they'll iron out the bugs this time.

 

[LordPhoque]

I think Forza Kinect is going to really disappoint you all.

It's clear that Turn 10 has been heading in a casual direction with Forza with 3 (rewind, livery editor, etc.) That's not a bad thing at all, and in fact opens up the game to a lot more people than GT5. But if you think T10 is going to completely redo all the physics and try and compete with the hard core aspect of GT, you're wrong wrong wrong. T10 would be idiots to even try. Better to go the sim-casual route like they're doing and still keep their fans aboard.

Sounds like someone who never played FM3.

GT took a huge step forward with New AI

Still the shittiest AI on the market by far.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Sounds like someone who never played FM3.



Still the shittiest AI on the market by far.

Sounds like someone who never played GT5.

 

[Windom Earle]

Sounds like someone who never played FM3.



Still the shittiest AI on the market by far.

Sounds like someone who never played GT5.

edit: beaten :lol

 

[Mizzou Gaming]

I am not too concerned with all the different screen shots and what not as I spend little time in photo mode as it is. I am more concerned with how it looks when I am racing in cockpit view. GT5 looks decent running on a few tracks, but overall its pretty freaking bland especially from the cockpit view. The screen tearing and disappointing frame rate inconsistency makes it really look bad at times. Forza looks and runs unbelieveable smooth. In my opinion a consistently high frame rate is a must for any and all racing games. Forza really shines over GT5 in that area.

The other question I have, aren't all the FORZA 3 screens shown useless since they are downgraded for compression or what not? Like I said, photo modes and screen shots have never been important to me so my terminology might be incorrect. Regardless it seems kinda silly to be fighting over which game looks better in screen shots being posted on forums. Again, like Donnie I am definately out of my element here so I guess carry on.

The only other thing I have issues with is the fact that PD had the luxury of seeing what worked and didn't work in the 3 Forza games so I was expecting a significantly better online component and some sort of livery editor like FORZA has.

 

[LordPhoque]

Sounds like someone who never played GT5.

The AI is shitty period. I can't believe there are some people to defend it.
With fans like this, it doesn't surprise me that PD didn't improve it that much since GT1. :/

 

[Redbeard]

The AI is shitty period. I can't believe there is some people to defend it.
With fans like this, it doesn't surprise me that PD didn't improve me that much since GT1. :/

Do you own GT5?

 

[Baby Milo]

The AI is shitty period. I can't believe there are some people to defend it.
With fans like this, it doesn't surprise me that PD didn't improve it that much since GT1. :/

why is it shitty?

examples?

 

[chubigans]

I think that PD's piss-poor decisions on usability issues such as waiting to access a menu or spending minutes to load a track

Minutes loading a track huh. :lol

Sounds like someone who never played FM3.

I certainly haven't. Have you seen those shots of F3 that nib posted? Who the hell would play a game with those kinds of grass textures? And that floating tree in the background! Hopefully Forza fans got a full refund for that garbage.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

The AI is shitty period. I can't believe there are some people to defend it.
With fans like this, it doesn't surprise me that PD didn't improve it that much since GT1. :/

See, now you're resorting to flat-out unqualified lying. Nice one.

 

[Metalmurphy]

The AI is shitty period. I can't believe there are some people to defend it.
With fans like this, it doesn't surprise me that PD didn't improve it that much since GT1. :/

Once again proving just how full of shit you are.

 

[Stallion Free]

So none of the people actually owning GT5 (me included) have seen any of those atrocious standard cars in game. What are the chances they are actually imports from GT PSP?

Another standard car:

Explain this.

 

[LordPhoque]

why is it shitty?

examples?

First of all the AI is scripted, which is terrible game design-wise.
Also, the opponents are on rails, it's been that way since the first GT, and even prologue had the same problem. Races against the AI were boring in prologue because the opponents weren't trying anything, if you bump into them they'll just regain their rail just after the "crash". Seriously, can you honestly name a decent current gen racer that has a worse AI ?
I'm not even comparing it to Forza 3 because it's miles ahead. Forza 3's AI is actually good not just better than GT's, and one of the best on the market along with MSPR.
@Redbeard : not yet. But played it today, didn't see any difference with prologue's AI. It's still scripted BTW.
@Chubigans : you seem mad 'cause your comic didn't turn out to be true maybe GT6.

 

[ShapeGSX]

It's clear that Turn 10 has been heading in a casual direction with Forza with 3 (rewind, livery editor, etc.).

If you think the livery editor is in any way a casual feature, it is quite obvious you have never used it. They made it very difficult to use, and I think it was a conscious decision by Turn 10 to make it that way. That is what makes the incredible liveries actually worth something in the virtual currency used in the game. Not everyone can do that stuff. Certainly not "casuals."

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

First of all the AI is scripted, which is terrible game design-wise.
Also, the opponents are on rails, it's been that way since the first GT, and even prologue had the same problem. Races against the AI were boring in prologue. Seriously, can you honestly name a decent current gen racer that has a worse AI ?
I'm not even comparing it to Forza 3 because it's miles ahead. Forza 3's AI is actually good not just better than GT's, and one of the best on the market along with MSPR.

@Redbeard : not yet. But played it today, didn't see any difference with prologue's AI. It's still scripted BTW.

Nice to see you don't know a thing about anything. Carry on people, nothing to see here.

 

[WretchedTruman]

"difficult to use" and "non-casual" are now synonymous? Jesus Christ, what have sim racers done to you people.

 

[Windom Earle]

GT5 looks decent running on a few tracks, but overall its pretty freaking bland especially from the cockpit view.

You think Forza has better cockpits than GT5? Why is it especially bland from the cockpit view?

And if you don't like screenshots, look at the lens of truth video. Have you even played the game?

 

[LordPhoque]

Nice to see you don't know a thing about anything. Carry on people, nothing to see here.

Wow you convinced me. AI is definitely not scripted and on a rail in GT5. And what's with these thousand of people saying the same thing ? They are all xbots anyway. Also, the press is biased and has something against GT, this is why they are complaining about the AI.

Spoiler

You didn't name a current gen racer with worse AI

 

[Metalmurphy]

First of all the AI is scripted, which is terrible game design-wise.
Also, the opponents are on rails, it's been that way since the first GT, and even prologue had the same problem. Races against the AI were boring in prologue because the opponents weren't trying anything, if you bump into them they'll just regain their rail just after the "crash". Seriously, can you honestly name a decent current gen racer that has a worse AI ?
I'm not even comparing it to Forza 3 because it's miles ahead. Forza 3's AI is actually good not just better than GT's, and one of the best on the market along with MSPR.
@Redbeard : not yet. But played it today, didn't see any difference with prologue's AI. It's still scripted BTW.

You're wrong on every single thing you just said.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13132520&postcount=8644

I doubt you even played prologue... and you certainly didn't play GT5 cause the improvement is obvious right on your first race.

 

[Windom Earle]

Explain this.

What is there to explain? This shot is not comparable to the garbage pics we've seen in this thread. This is what standard cars look like, not great but also not incredibly bad.

 

[LordPhoque]

You're wrong on every single thing you just said.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13132520&postcount=8644

I doubt you even played prologue... and you certainly didn't play GT5 cause the improvement is obvious right on your first race.

Are actually impressed by what's in those gifs ? Seriously ?
This only confirms that hardcore GT fans like you don't play other racers. And honestly, I've never seen the AI do such things in GT5P. Didn't play it for 100 hours but still.

 

[WretchedTruman]

What is there to explain? This shot is not comparable to the garbage pics we've seen in this thread. This is what standard cars look like, not great but also not incredibly bad.

The car handle....is a texture....

Look, if there's a side to be on, I'm certainly on the side of GT5, I really appreciate Yaumachi as an artist...but damn it, this....this thing is not a vehicle!

 

[regs]

For comparing the two I think GT5 looks better overall. I have been using standard models a lot in GT mode and don't really think it looks as bad as people are making it seem.

Yea GT5 looks bad in some instances but so does Forza 3, both games will have environments that don't necessarily look great but you're flying down a track going 100mph... I am not exactly a graphics whore so that instance isn't that important.

What disappointed me about GT5 was that it took so long to develop and it seems like it was a half finished game. The whole Forza series has come out between GT4 and GT5, I was HOPING that PD would take some hints from what Turn10 was doing and what made Forza so popular. I absolutely LOVED customizing my cars. I am not even talking about aero, I am talking about engine swaps, drivetrain swaps, being able to build the engine up the way you wanted with valves, cams etc, not just stage 1, stage 2 etc with vague descriptions as to what each stage is actually doing to the car. Why you cannot upgrade brakes in GT5 is also beyond me.

I don't like how difficult it is to find a car that I want in GT5, I don't care if they're standard models etc, I want a list of cars so I can buy them, not having to check the used cars section every time I beat a race to see if there is a car I want listed.

I liked how forza 3 I could give every car a personality, I was able to scuff up a car with paint etc and make it look like a 'sleeper' I liked playing around with designs and it really made it worth my wile to collect more as a result IMO. The fact that I cannot even paint a car a color I want in GT5 unless I already own a car that is that color is ridiculous.

Given the long development cycle I was expecting a very polished game, with the way the release date was announced and how it was almost silently released it was almost as if Sony refused to fund the development any longer and forced them to release the game.

 

[golem]

What is there to explain? This shot is not comparable to the garbage pics we've seen in this thread. This is what standard cars look like, not great but also not incredibly bad.

That is incredibly bad for a current game.

 

[regs]

What is there to explain? This shot is not comparable to the garbage pics we've seen in this thread. This is what standard cars look like, not great but also not incredibly bad.

EXACTLY, this is as bad as GT5 looks for me, I guess I am not going out of my way to look for flaws :lol

 

[Metalmurphy]

Are actually impressed by what's in those gifs ? Seriously ?
This only confirms that hardcore GT fans like you don't play other racers.

Nothing in those gifs was supposed to be impressive, but they pretty much prove anything you just said is false. So yeah, why should anyone continue to listen to you when it's pretty obvious your just full of it.

 

[LordPhoque]

Nothing in those gifs was supposed to be impressive, but they pretty much prove anything you just said is false. So yeah, why should anyone continue to listen to you when it's pretty obvious your just full of it.

I'm still waiting for a racer that has worse AI... Dirt 2 ? Definitely not. F1 2010. Hell no. PGR4 ? No, despite the rubberbanding. FM3 ? It's in another league.
It's 2010 and the real driving simulator still has the worse AI out there. Confirmed by the press and the facts.

 

[Windom Earle]

The car handle....is a texture....
this thing is not a vehicle!

Again, this car is not comparable to the crap we've seen in this thread. Could it have to do something with GP PSP imports?

I'm not going to talk about fucking car handels with you :lol

That is incredibly bad for a current game.

You're missing my point as well.

 

[regs]

That is incredibly bad for a current game.

and so noticeable when you're actually driving at 100mph or actually enjoying the game. If there is an instance where this comes up they're for a split second. Some models in Forza 3 are just as bad and it's the same thing, it's not noticeable unless you're staring at a still image and actually looking for flaws

 

[Redbeard]

I'm still waiting for a racer that has worse AI... Dirt 2 ? Definitely not. F1 2010. Hell no. PGR4 ? No, despite the rubberbanding. FM3 ? It's in another league.
Come on surprise me.

http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3182562

There are a number of Gran Turismo 5's more anticipated features that curiously don't really reveal themselves until you've put a rather significant amount of time into the game. For example, the computer-controlled racers' A.I. has always been a source of contention in the GT series, and early in the game, it doesn't appear to have been addressed -- the other cars in the field are more obstacles than opponents. But progress into the high teens and twenties in driver level, and suddenly the A.I. drivers seem more organic, aggressive, and unpredictable.

 

[Metalmurphy]

I'm still waiting for a racer that has worse AI... Dirt 2 ? Definitely not. F1 2010. Hell no. PGR4 ? No, despite the rubberbanding. FM3 ? It's in another league.
It's 2010 and the real driving simulator still has the worse AI out there. Confirmed by the press and the facts.

What facts? :lol The BS you keep throwing at walls to see if it sticks?

 

[golem]

and so noticeable when you're actually driving at 100mph or actually enjoying the game. If there is an instance where this comes up they're for a split second. Some models in Forza 3 are just as bad and it's the same thing, it's not noticeable unless you're staring at a still image and actually looking for flaws

I was just racing in GT5 and rubbing against one of these sad standard models in the game. Its noticeable.

 

[Baby Milo]

http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3182562

u don't even have to play that long you can change there difficulty in arcade mode

 

[LordPhoque]

What facts? :lol The BS you keep throwing at walls to see if it sticks?

Still not able to name a game ?
How is it bullshit if you can't say "GT's AI is better than this game" ?
@Redbeard : found one review saying the AI is good at some point (just like damages right ?), I can found a shitload saying it's terrible.

 

[regs]

I was just racing in GT5 and rubbing against one of these sad standard models in the game. Its noticeable.

Sorry you're wrecking because you're staring at bad car models :lol

 

[beast786]

http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3182562

lol

Dude. It's Confirmed by the press and the facts.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Still not able to name a game ?
How is it bullshit if you can't say "GT's AI is better than this game" ?
@Redbeard : found one review saying the AI is good at some point (just like damages right ?), I can found a shitload saying it's terrible.

I can name several games. Just like you've been naming them. But it's pointless. It's pretty clear you never fucking played GT5P or GT5 so even if I name games you'll just flat out say I'm wrong. The matter here is, you were spewing out BS and I just proved you wrong. Period.

 

[Windom Earle]

Still not able to name a game ?
How is it bullshit if you can't say "GT's AI is better than this game" ?
@Redbeard : found one review saying the AI is good at some point (just like damages right ?), I can found a shitload saying it's terrible.

Motorstorm AI > Your AI

 

[DeadGzuz]

I'm still waiting for a racer that has worse AI... Dirt 2 ? Definitely not. F1 2010. Hell no. PGR4 ? No, despite the rubberbanding. FM3 ? It's in another league.
It's 2010 and the real driving simulator still has the worse AI out there. Confirmed by the press and the facts.

Give it a rest, you probably haven't played a single one of these games, especially not GT5. So why are you here endlessly typing crap? Yes, the console war is important, don't sleep young man.

 

[LordPhoque]

http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3182562

Question I.A., le bilan n'est guère mieux. Excepté quelques rares dépassements, nos concurrents (jusqu'à 15 par course, mais la plupart en comptent moins) continuent de se suivre gentiment à la file indienne, pour des courses parfois bien plan-plan, voire ennuyeuses

Translation :

The AI isn't much better. Except from some rare overtaking, the opponents are still gently following a rail, which results some boring and simplistic races.

http://www.gamekult.com/jeux/test-gran-turismo-5-J000079298t.html

Tons of other reviews saying the same. Took this one because their racers reviewer is actually good and a GT fan.

Metalmurphy : you can't name any other games 'cause you probably didn't play them, or you wouldn't defend GT's AI. It's terrible in its own way though, no need to compare it with other games.

Give it a rest, you probably haven't played a single one of these games, especially not GT5. So why are you here endlessly typing crap? Yes, the console war is important, don't sleep young man.

DeadGzuz

Jesus christ. Aren't you ashamed ? You are the biggest console warrior on this board. Except from the GT5 vs FM3 stuff i've never practiced console warrior here.

 

[chubigans]

Still not able to name a game ?
How is it bullshit if you can't say "GT's AI is better than this game" ?
@Redbeard : found one review saying the AI is good at some point (just like damages right ?), I can found a shitload saying it's terrible.

How bout instead of one review, two?

Opponent AI feels like it has greatly improved since the last game. It appears that a lot of care went into realism this time around. I got the sense that I was in races with drivers of different types for the first time in the series. Some seemed aggressive and others careful. All seemed to put on the heat in the last leg of the last lap. This made for some tense finishes that felt closer to what you might experience in a race with real opponents. There were many times where I was fully immersed in competition and had to remind myself that I wasn't actually in a live race.

http://www.destructoid.com/review-gran-turismo-5-188383.phtml

Or three?

As you race, maneuvering takes on a whole new meaning as the competition becomes tougher throughout the classes. Driver A.I’s who we’re once easy to slip by become moving road blocking forcing your skills of strategy to come out.

http://gamerfitnation.org/profiles/blogs/gamer-fit-nation-presents?xg_source=activity

Or four?

The drivers' AI is much improved, however, with the processional drones of old replaced with conservative but canny pilots who will visibly race each other, make moves to overtake instead of driving blindly into you, and even occasionally run wide or deep into a corner, leaving a tempting opening.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-11-24-gran-turismo-5-review?page=2

Notice how they say not that "the AI is good" but "improved" meaning they know the issues with GT AI in the past. Yes, the AI is bad in the beginning levels. It is not bad in the later professional levels. It's a great way to see which reviewers got further in the game.

Or are you going to tell me they're all lying?

 

[LiquidMetal14]

GT5 is much more than you guys here realize. Clearly there are some who haven't even played it here. The AI argument is laughable. I am constantly boxed in/out and driven around. The package as a whole is the most comprehensive racer by far. Let's just keep on pointing at standard cars and baseless opinions on A.I. though :/

 

[Shawsie64]

Coming from a predominantly PC driving sim background I look at this thread and find it hilarious :lol

I mean do not one of you care about the physics? who gives a fucking shit about the graphics as long as the physics are realistic. We should do a poll of the average age of people posting in this thread.

Spoiler

yes i realise the irony of me posting in here :lol

 

[Brashnir]

Motorstorm AI > Your AI

Well, that about wraps it up for anyone taking anything you say seriously again.

 

[Stripper13]

I look forward to moving My driver level higher and experiencing this AI. I was pessimistic to begin with as the first few stages of your GT career shows little improvement. In that sense I felt forza 3 had an advantage - but if these reviews are accurate I'm looking forward to progressing there. I'm definitely experiencing rail driving at the moment - late braking to gain the inside advantage on a corner and the AI just slams into me as it tries to follow it's predetermined racing line - alongside the obnoxious 'bump' sound.

 

[Windom Earle]

Well, that about wraps it up for anyone taking anything you say seriously again.

Because I think Motorstorm has horrible rubberband AI?

edit: "Your AI" does not refer to Forza! :lol

Forza 3 AI is quite good and probably still a bit better than GT. Need to play more for final judgement.

 

[LordPhoque]

...

Improved from what ? It was abmysal in previous GT. It's still inferior to any decent current gen racer, including FM3.
Name a game with worse AI please, I'm still waiting. Metalmurphy obiouvsly can't because he apparently only plays GT.

Then I start watching the other cars, and it looks to me like I'm not the only one doing the same thing as before: the A.I. is behaving the way I remember it in previous versions of the series. Opponents seem to be trundling around on rails, even to the point of sometimes barging me out of the way to stay on their predetermined course. This has happened on numerous occasions now, and it's frankly annoying

http://www.gamepro.com/article/reviews/217386/gran-turismo-5/

Unfortunately the same can't be said when it's yourself in charge, and A-Spec's races aren't helped by the return of the series' now trademark zombie A.I. Any tweaks that have been made are hard to decipher

http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/113/1136103p3.html

opponents will still mindlessly pile into you if you're in the way, and although they do offer a significant challenge it remains one of robotic competence not human-like unpredictability.

Read more: http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/games/8...an-turismo-5-shifts-to-top-gear#ixzz16MPuox3j

http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/games/848129-games-review-gran-turismo-5-shifts-to-top-gear

Stop acting like nobody else is saying the same please, it's kind of embarrassing and it's not the kind of feedback PD needs for GT6. They are only 19 reviews on metacritic right now, but at the end the majority of the reviews will say that the AI is bad. Improved or not over GT5P, who cares, it's still old gen and inferior to pretty much any decent current gen racer. Nobody can argue that or they would have named a goddam game with worse AI already.

 

[Brashnir]

Because I think Motorstorm has horrible rubberband AI?

Is that what that was supposed to mean? The way you phrased it it sounded like a retreat to platform affiliation coupled with an ad hominem. Even knowing now what you meant, it still doesn't make any sense, since rubberbanding and AI aren't really the same thing.

edit: "Your AI" does not refer to Forza! :lol

Forza 3 AI is quite good and probably still a bit better than GT. Need to play more for final judgement.

fair enough. Just a misunderstanding then.

 

[chubigans]

Improved from what ? It was abmysal in previous GT. It's still inferior to any decent current gen racer, including FM3.

Stop acting like nobody else is saying the same please, it's kind of embarrassing and it's not the kind of feedback PD needs for GT6. They are only 19 reviews on metacritic right now, but at the end the majority of the reviews will say that the AI is bad. Improved or not over GT5P, who cares, it's still old gen and inferior to pretty much any decent current gen racer. Nobody can argue that or they would have named a goddam game with worse AI already.

Did you not read anything I just said? The AI is abysmal in the beginner's series. I had cars smashing into me when I was stopped on the track in the early races. Cars that would hit me from behind and spin me out simply because they were on a predetermined path.

But then when you get into the later stage of the game, the AI gets way, way better. Considering reviewers only had three days at most to play the game, is it really unreasonable to think that they didn't get to the better driver AI?

I have played the game. I know more than you do. The reviews I linked to aren't making anything up. Do you understand now why some reviewers would say the AI is still bad?

Man, it's like talking to a brick wall sometimes.

 

[LordPhoque]

Did you not read anything I just said? The AI is abysmal in the beginner's series. I had cars smashing into me when I was stopped on the track in the early races. Cars that would hit me from behind and spin me out simply because they were on a predetermined path.

But then when you get into the later stage of the game, the AI gets way, way better. Considering reviewers only had three days at most to play the game, is it really unreasonable to think that they didn't get to the better driver AI?

I have played the game. I know more than you do. The reviews I linked to aren't making anything up. Do you understand now why some reviewers would say the AI is still bad?

Man, it's like talking to a brick wall sometimes.

So what ? Reviewers saying the AI is bad only played beginner's series, am I right ? They can't think that playing until level 40 or I don't know. Well guess what, I've read a lot of french reviews, watched video reviews of a guy who reached level 23 and he was still saying the same thing.
But eh, it's always player's fault, never the game's :lol