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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35
- Thread starter bishoptl
- Start date
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
You're a lost cause. Just assume without ever digging into Gt5.LordPhoque said:
LordPhoque
Banned
LiquidMetal14 said:
Who said I won't ?
I own all previous GT games and the AI was shit in those. Sorry for being skeptical.
WretchedTruman
Member
IGN is a cesspool realm of fucking idiots; it has to be in Gaf FAQ by now. I don't know about Gamepro, but I'd listen to gameshark.com over IGN.Chrange said:
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Indeed.LordPhoque said:
Windom Earle
Member
Now here's an awesome standard car! :lol
WretchedTruman
Member
Chrange said:
sounds like dozens of other more professional gaming web sites that we refer to on a daily basis. Proper grammar and sentence structure are literally limited to a couple of places.
Is that what you were referring to?
For the record, I don't know anything about this site, say what you will about them. I just know - what we all should know, really- that IGN is a terrible scab mark on the internet that isn't credible in any sense of the word.
Windom Earle
Member
user_nat said:
Yep, one of the reasons why GT is so unique.
You know what the MOST fucked up part is? Some people are okay for the quality of port PD displayed with some of their standard cars. Or just try to ignore it. It's quite sad. I wouldn't have a problem with ported over cars, if they did them right and actually were consistent across the board. 6 years of dev time and they didn't have 10 minutes to run through and check for the horrible technical errors on some of the cars. Sheesh.scandisk_ said:
Hell, until I read this thread I didn't know Forza 3 ported models from Forza 2. In Forza 3 they look much better. Less piss filter is an instant win by default, but still, the jobs done on the cars are pretty damn consistent.
As for AI, the AI in Forza 3 is fairly competent, but a bit on the aggressive side. The AI in prologue wasn't anything special at all. I wouldn't call it "abysmal," but I didn't see the AI do anything special that made me classify it as "intelligent." I don't know if any racing games have truly intelligent AI, from what I've played.
LordPhoque said:
http://www.totalvideogames.com/Forza-Motorsport-3/review-14669.html
game's focus on attracting a more casual audience has detracted from the hardcore experience, with an inadvisably implemented time rewind feature and underwhelming opponent AI
http://www.cnet.com.au/forza-motorsport-3-339296770.htm
Bad: AI drivers occasionally fall asleep at the wheel Career bug sometimes lets you use cars that far exceed event restrictions
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/driving/forzamotorsport3/review.html
it's not nearly as uncommon as it should be to see opponents accelerate toward the Seat hairpin and fly off into the gravel without ever appearing to touch the brake pedal or the steering wheel, and it's not unheard of to see different opponents making the exact same error on consecutive laps
enzo_gt said:
GT5'S A+ DRIVING PHYSICS is worth the 6 years though. I've been dissapointed with some of the game's inconsistencies but the driving physics really made me forget those. It's not perfect far from it but hell it's a perfect driving game at it's core.
FunnyBunny
Member
I cannot (and will not) judge the final product (I haven't played it).
That said, isn't it a bad design decision to make some of GT5's major improvements (damage, better AI) only reveal themselves hours into the experience? The game is improved. Show off. Strut that stuff.
That said, isn't it a bad design decision to make some of GT5's major improvements (damage, better AI) only reveal themselves hours into the experience? The game is improved. Show off. Strut that stuff.
Death Dealer
Member
enzo_gt said:
Huge difference in driving physics compared to prologue.
FunnyBunny said:
This thread isn't really the ideal place for this sort of discussion, but I agree - It seems like they went out of their way to make a poor first impression with the way they held some features back in the beginning of the game.
I wonder if their thought process was to east GT fans into the game by starting the game out with a lot of the new stuff locked away, and slowly revealing it. Seems like a very odd way to go about things, even if that was their line of thought.
Terrordactyl
Member
enzo_gt said:
Are you fucking serious? You haven't even played the game? And your shitting on the PS2 models? They look like horseshit in these caps that have been posted, but they look fine in motion, which is the only thing that counts imo. I'm sure this has been posted x 1000 already. Talk about ign being bad when this place is just as bad sometimes.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Errr, are you quoting the right person? :lolTerrordactyl said:
Jett's post seems to back him up a bit.
FunnyBunny
Member
Brashnir said:
I won't continue the discussion here, I just was too worried about asking in the main thread and getting myself banned. Thank you, though for confirming I'm not the only person who thinks this.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
So anyone with extensive experience with rFactor or iRacing, how does GT5 compare so far in terms of the driving model/physics? Just curious what to expect when I eventually jump in.
XiaNaphryz said:
Jett's post referred to collisions, the actual driving physics are leagues better than prologue. It rivals any other console racer released to date.
XiaNaphryz said:
iam220 made a post in the official thread check it out, if you can actually find his post (made it yesterday).
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
I expect at least that, hence my other question above.LJ11 said:
Some guys who've had some impressions and who's had iRacing experience:XiaNaphryz said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=24585597&postcount=11623
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=24569975&postcount=10258
XiaNaphryz said:
Yeah I'm only talking about car collisions, not driving physics, because enzo was talking about bumper cars and whatnot. I haven't played GT5 yet btw
but everything I've seen points to bumper-like collisions still being how cars affect each other. I would love to be proven wrong.Terrordactyl
Member
XiaNaphryz said:
I was assuming by the fact that he was questioning how the physics were in comparison to GT5P, which leads me to believe he hasn't played it. If he has sorry and your comments are more valid.
edit: sorry I quoted the wrong post from that guy I went on a small tirade against. I was speaking in regards to the PS2 models, when you actually play the game it's surprising how good they look, especially after being bombarded with these shitty looking pictures, I was almost dreading seeing it with my own eyes, I was really relieved to see them in game and looking nothing like the stills. The thing I hate the most about the GT4 models lack of cockpit cam, going from driving a premium car in cockpit all the time to a fullscreen bumper cam is jarring to say the least, it's even moreso going the opposite.
The physics are awesome, probably the best part of the game, but it still is a bit "bumper car-ish" It really doesn't bother me though, and I know someone is going so say some stupid shit about how it does matter, but I play this game for lap records and if I plan on setting any sort of record I shouldn't be hitting any corners at all. I usually grind out a course until I can do it flawlessly on a car that I'm comfortable with until I start bringing my tuned cars onto it. I know some people play this game for the competitive aspect and I can see how the collision can ruin that aspect of it because you can grind the walls and complete a turn at 100+ mph, which I agree sucks.
Yes I am shitting on the PS2 models. And will continue to do so because I feel I am just. And I have seen some of the particular offenders in motion in videos, and hey, they look even worse than the PS2 models at times. Look back at my post history and see I haven't criticized anything you'd only know by playing GT5, and I've made that clear. You want to make excuses for the graphical irregularities and inconsistencies we've seen here? Go right ahead, I'll continue to criticize the models, along with you if you choose to do so.Terrordactyl said:
Thats why I'm asking what's up with the physics and AI in GT5, because I'm comparing it all to my experience with Prologue (and Forza). My only gripe with GT5 are the inconsistencies that have been raised here. I still think the graphics, at their peak, absolutely shit on all the competition, and every single other video game out there bar none in terms of realism. That's why this little controversy of sorts is such a shame, and upsets me.
Terrordactyl
Member
enzo_gt said:
I'm not trying to make excuses, I just think the reaction is hyperbolic, they really don't look bad. I'm not trying to defend it because this hurts my feelings or some stupid shit, I think they genuinely look pretty decent, not up to the premium cars level obviously. There is no way for me to have seen all 800 models (I only have 14 cars after 10+ hrs of playtime, preorder car included) so perhaps I haven't seen the bad ones, but all of the ones I have seen do not look bad. I have not taken it into replay mode to scan around the cars to count jaggies, I suppose if I did that they would look bad.
Anyways rent the game or something, play it at a friends, I think you will be surprised.
BamYouHaveAids
Member
So basically no criticism against the game matters as you have personally rationalized them away. Lock this bitch up.Terrordactyl said:
I haven't seen all 800 models either. But you must understand my point that I've been making in this thread since I started posting all of my angry replies. It's the inconsistency I see that infuriates me from a game design level. I'm used to Forza with 400 pretty good IMO looking cars are there. I've got the Photo and Video thread open at all times looking at all the crazy pictures, many of which are beautifully transferred over PS2 models that jive with the level of detail GT5 aims for.Terrordactyl said:
But this isn't the case the entire time. Stills of some of these cars appear worse than in GT4, which is absurd and I don't know what the reason is for this happening, but it happened. And thus, the strength of the game and the OVERALL quality of the game is compromised. This terrible decision by PD upsets me, and it upsets me more knowing some people are willing to go to umpteenth lengths to defend a bad decision instead of just accepting the flaw and moving on with this, and everyone being happy. I'm sure a bunch of the hardcore GT folks in here hate me for criticizing this, but what can you do.
I assure you, as soon as I have access to this game, I will play it tirelessly. GT5 is the only game that makes me regret the choice of buying a 360 many, many years ago. I'm as disappointed as others, just voicing my opinion a bit more. And hey, now that I've announced that I haven't played GT5 maybe everyone else can go ahead and admit they haven't played Forza 3 and we can party together!
theignoramus
Member
The PS2 models look like shit, but the lighting system is good enough to hide most of the ugliness when racing. Some standards are aggressively ugly, others look fine from a few feet away. They look more obnoxious in stills than they do in motion. That's all there is to it.
Terrordactyl
Member
BamYouHaveAids said:
Wat?
terrordactyl said:
read
I'll comment on the AI, it's pretty shitty to start, you can basically "buy" a victory. For example, I played the Yaris race a couple of times managing only to place 3rd, I went and put 30k into tuning the car, played it again and spun out losing at least 10 seconds on my lap time and got passed by the 3 cars behind me, I came back and won because my car was superior to the other ones. As you get on in the A-spec career it does get more aggressive, I'm on the 3rd tier now, intermediate or whatever, it's ramped up significantly in terms of challenge. I have the Masarati Gran Turismo with about 200k in tuning mods (it has about 650 hp) and I'm finding some races to be more challenging, even the tracks that were in prologue which I know well force me to try a lot harder to place first.
I will say my experience with Forza 3 is limited, I've played a lot of 2, but skipped the 3rd for a rental. I will agree that it's shitty that they are using the 1000 cars tagline as a selling point. I kinda think they could have marketed it better, or offered the PS2 models up as a free download with a sticker on the case. The only irregular thing that realllly caught my eye was a taillight texture, the AI was breaking and the texture went to an ugly flat red color. I will agree x1000 that the inconsistencies ruin what could have been a near flawless presentation. At least there is a lot of content outside of the cars alone./rationalization
supermackem
Banned
I think what taken me back a bit is i expected gt5 to come out and blow forza 3 out of the water in every aspect. Its looking clearly that this isnt the case which is either down to the hype people have around the game or a bit of a cluster bomb from kaz.
LordPhoque said:First of all the AI is scripted, which is terrible game design-wise.
Also, the opponents are on rails, it's been that way since the first GT, and even prologue had the same problem. Races against the AI were boring in prologue because the opponents weren't trying anything, if you bump into them they'll just regain their rail just after the "crash". Seriously, can you honestly name a decent current gen racer that has a worse AI ?
I'm not even comparing it to Forza 3 because it's miles ahead. Forza 3's AI is actually good not just better than GT's, and one of the best on the market along with MSPR.
@Redbeard : not yet. But played it today, didn't see any difference with prologue's AI. It's still scripted BTW.
@Chubigans : you seem mad 'cause your comic didn't turn out to be true
You're talking out of your ass mate. AI is not only massively improved, but often absolutely sublime. Just keep playing. Chances are you're either not far enough yet (game progressively ups the ante) or just haven't been paying attention. AI is brilliant. Cars make mistakes, block, avoid collisions, change driving lines and approaches, play aggressive, try overtaking manoeuvres and all.
Admittedly early on the AI was pants at times (cars not avoiding crashing in to me etc), but whilst testing damage earlier today (and in races generally speaking), I noticed the AI behaved completely different. It was actually difficult for me to hit them or get them to hit me. They just kept avoiding me.
Anyway, posts like the above one are why you can't take forum opinions or even reviews to an extent seriously. Many journalists (my friends included), had just two days to review GT5. Makes sense that many didin't get far enough to actually properly access the AI and advanced developments (tire temp/wear/changes, damage etc).
Terrordactyl
Member
Shawsie64 said:
I think the sense of speed has been greatly improved, especially on Nurburgring, that track is so damn intense, it feels like I'm flying when I'm going 70. I always thought it was lacking a bit in that department, not anymore though.
Yeah..nobody (or at least those in the right mind) is arguing that Forza has its share of ugly lows. But people are surprised that a franchise that's been held in such high regard is able to produce visuals that are worse in quality compared to Forza's atrocity. More to the point, people's expectations of graphics were already maintained at a high level after GT5nib95 said:
was released so it became a matter of PD doing no wrong from then on for many fans.Terrordactyl said:
The Nascar races and vehicles actually scare me, more from the sense of appreciation for the power that lies beneath the bonnet. They are so unwieldily and aggressive. I feel like my G25 is going to tear my hands off lol. I also did an intermediate level Go-kart race earlier which felt so fast and manic (despite not going above 90mph) it felt like I was in warp drive lol.
Terrordactyl
Member
Yeah I was floored by the first Nascar challenge, I love how touchy they are, you can really appreciate owning a wheel in those cars. The karts are waaaaaaaaaay faster than I expected them to be, (I really didn't watch any media on this game outside of the e3 trailers because I knew I'd buy it day 1 anyways) karting is really pick up and play too, it takes little to no adjustment, but I sat there thinking "these dudes are crazy" while I was taking a turn at 70 mph :lol
adelante said:Yeah..nobody (or at least those in the right mind) is arguing that Forza has its share of ugly lows. But people are surprised that a franchise that's been held in such high regard is able to produce visuals that are worse in quality compared to Forza's atrocity. More to the point, people's expectations of graphics were already maintained at a high level after GT5
You can't seriously be arguing that Forza's lows are as bad as the pixellated abominations posted in this thread. Forza has lows, but they are not that low. This is ofcourse, if you are in your right mind.