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[RSTEIN]

Is there any relation to physics and telemetry? If so, how could Forza be so comprehensive with showing it to you yet not be as accurate as GT, which doesn't show anything (except for G's) yet folks say it feels better?

GT5 doesn't have telemetry? Hmm.

I don't have any data to back this up but virtually every review I've read says that GT5's physics 'feel' better.

I wish we could find the calculations per minutes/refresh/etc. for both. I've seen this data for Forza 3 but not for GT5. We need a proper side by side analysis to get an idea of what game is doing more calculations or even what kind of calculations.

 

[mil6es]

Is there any relation to physics and telemetry? If so, how could Forza be so comprehensive with showing it to you yet not be as accurate as GT, which doesn't show anything (except for G's) yet folks say it feels better?

lol the telemetry is using the physics engine's date to calculate its own, so if the physics engine is crap so will the telemetry( not saying F3's physics is crap before fanboys pounce) just because a game has telemetry does not make its physics superior .

I wish we could find the calculations per minutes/refresh/etc. for both. I've seen this data for Forza 3 but not for GT5. We need a proper side by side analysis to get an idea of what game is doing more calculations or even what kind of calculations.

lol not that calculations per frame BS Dan used to spout to make himself feel good :lol

NFS: Shift had more calculations per frame F3 and there physics engine was criminal :lol

all that talk is just PR bs

 

[Stallion Free]

why do people always post shitty compressed screen shots, If you'd ever played the game you would know it looks considerably better than that.......

fanboys will be fanboys I guess

Compression aside, look at the track. It looks just as bad as anything in Forza.

 

[Slayer-33]

Compression aside, look at the track. It looks just as bad as anything in Forza.

Tracks look bad in Forza 3? News to me.

 

[mil6es]

Compression aside, look at the track. It looks just as bad as anything in Forza.

not quite..... GT5's Nurburgring is the best rendition on a console IMO, as Beatiful track as it is Brutal

Tracks look bad in Forza 3? News to me.

The only track in F3 that truely looks stunning is that Camino Viejo/Montserrat track and all its layouts and maybe the Kiado track, everything else look very ordinary.

 

[RSTEIN]

lol not that calculations per frame BS Dan used to spout to make himself feel good :lol

NFS: Shift had more calculations per frame F3 and there physics engine was criminal :lol

all that talk is just PR bs

There is a lot of PR bullshit on both sides. But I'm sure there exists somewhere out there in the world a somewhat accurate list/description/analysis of each game's physics engine.

 

[kitch9]

What sound system are people running that are trying to diss GT5?

It sounds fucking amazing through my Onkyo 507.....You lot are fucking clueless....

 

[Lagspike_exe]

There is a lot of PR bullshit on both sides. But I'm sure there exists somewhere out there in the world a somewhat accurate list/description/analysis of each game's physics engine.

Raw numbers don't paint a full picture.

The biggest achievement in terms of physics GT5 has done are the RL/game comparisons in terms of track times with same cars. The fact that they have managed to model tracks and cars to such a superb level with great physics and that they are achieving virtually identical track records in game and in RL speaks enough of the physic's engine quality.

 

[mil6es]

There is a lot of PR bullshit on both sides. But I'm sure there exists somewhere out there in the world a somewhat accurate list/description/analysis of each game's physics engine.

no doubt, I normally trust the PC sim'ers with their verdict

 

[LCfiner]

There is a lot of PR bullshit on both sides. But I'm sure there exists somewhere out there in the world a somewhat accurate list/description/analysis of each game's physics engine.

what it’s going to take - and I don’t expect this to happen honestly, is for someone to take a range of different cars, and a range of drivers, pick a real world track and race them in Forza, then race them in GT5, then race them in real life.

check the ways the cars handle, track speeds and grip and review video to see how they all compare.

 

[NullPointer]

NFS: Shift had more calculations per frame F3 and there physics engine was criminal :lol

Got a source for this? Wasn't Turn 10 hyping Forza 3's 360Mhz physics calculations?

Or is my sarcasm meter broken? It has been wonky lately.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Got a source for this? Wasn't Turn 10 hyping Forza 3's 360Mhz physics calculations?

Or is my sarcasm meter broken? It has been wonky lately.

It was 360 hertz, not megahertz.

 

[RSTEIN]

The biggest achievement in terms of physics GT5 has done are the RL/game comparisons in terms of track times with same cars. The fact that they have managed to model tracks and cars to such a superb level with great physics and that they are achieving virtually identical track records in game and in RL speaks enough of the physic's engine quality.

Yeah, same could be said about Forza 3, that's the problem.

We need numbers to get a sense of what each is doing. Not necessarily to draw a conclusion about what is 'better' but just to poke under the hood a bit.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

What sound system are people running that are trying to diss GT5?

It sounds fucking amazing through my Onkyo 507.....You lot are fucking clueless....

I think they are mainly talking about the authenticity of the engine sounds. Also when you're in cockpit the sound of your muffler is muffled. I have a Audi R8 and a big meaty muffler. When I'm in chase cam (don't drive like that) it's very loud and meaty. When I go in cockpit it's tamed.

The sound files in GT5 seems to be of a very high quality (music and stuff, I don't have much of a ear for the car sounds).

 

[XiaNaphryz]

The biggest achievement in terms of physics GT5 has done are the RL/game comparisons in terms of track times with same cars. The fact that they have managed to model tracks and cars to such a superb level with great physics and that they are achieving virtually identical track records in game and in RL speaks enough of the physic's engine quality.

I can't remember, but didn't Forza try to do the same thing with a F1 driver some time ago? Anyone remember the specifics?

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Yeah, same could be said about Forza 3, that's the problem.

We need numbers to get a sense of what each is doing. Not necessarily to draw a conclusion about what is 'better' but just to poke under the hood a bit.

Got any examples? I've seen GT's Lexus IS-F and F2007 comparisons, but I haven't seen any Forza's.

 

[enzo_gt]

why do people always post shitty compressed screen shots, If you'd ever played the game you would know it looks considerably better than that.......

fanboys will be fanboys I guess

The same reasons why GT5 blind fanboys only post the best shots possible from photomode? And selectively choose only the shittiest of FM3 shots to compare?

Let's be real here, there are no fucking rational standards in this thread. That's why this thread exists.

 

[Ashes]

Not sure how many sites will actually do a proper, comprehensive comparison on this one. Just browsing some sim forums, I've seen a couple people say GT5's physics are about on par with rFactor, but still not up to the level of a Netkar or RBR.

Link?

All I can say is that it feels much better than forza 3, all aids off but that could be wheel based. Forza 3 not supporting g25 is and has always been dissapointing.
edit: I tried gt5 with ds3 now and it's not the controller I don't think. Whatever is underneath the bonnet, it's pretty good.

edit: I'll try ford focus later, as that's the car I know best, it's my real life car...

 

[Cuban Legend]

Compression aside, look at the track. It looks just as bad as anything in Forza.

IMO, ultimately I could give a damn what a track looks like while i play a driving game with an accurate enough wheel, as long as the landmarks in the track and the driving surface, feel the physics portray is accurate it could be rendered in Minecraft craphics for all I care...

Which is why I don't get why any serious sim-gamer in this thread's Discussion would care about posting or even less... comparing bullshots, your game doesn't look like that when it matters most (when your driving), so why post it?

Sure, we all want our cars and tracks in driving games to look real, but when it comes down to it, the people who pay the devs bills are the hardcore gamers who drive with wheels and are dedicated to the series fidelity on the tracks accuracy more-so than graphically. Sometimes the devs can lose sight of that fact, and it saddens me though it's understandable as to why.

Function over Form. Would you buy your most beautiful/favorite Ferrari/Super-car if the only condition was that it had an engine swap with a Kia?:lol

/inb4imaPCsimlover

Then again even though I openly stated I love PGR4, right now its the perfect relaxing palate-cleansing (racing) game for me.

 

[RSTEIN]

Got any examples? I've seen GT's Lexus IS-F and F2007 comparisons, but I haven't seen any Forza's.

If I remember correctly during the Forza 3 pre-launch marketing tour they went around to a bunch of racing events and had actual race drivers use their set ups and the real track times were virtually the same. I can't find the link tho.

 

[mil6es]

Got a source for this? Wasn't Turn 10 hyping Forza 3's 360Mhz physics calculations?

Or is my sarcasm meter broken? It has been wonky lately.

SHIFT is built on the most advanced physics engine we’ve made, and is by far the most advanced and realistic physics engine of any of the mainstream racing games. We’re talking about an engine that can run unlimited threads, detailed physics parameters running at around 400 Hz on consoles. Things like tire deformation based on g-forces, tire pressures, rubber thickness, which only the most diehard sim fans will notice, but we know it’s there.

http://www.virtualr.net/need-for-speed-shift-new-screens-interview/

The same reasons why GT5 blind fanboys only post the best shots possible from photomode? And selectively choose only the shittiest of FM3 shots to compare?

Let's be real here, there are no fucking rational standards in this thread. That's why this thread exists.

So because people post photomode shots of a game showcasing what the game can truly do, that makes it OK to post crappy compressed shots that falsely portray the games graphics in a poor light.

Wow an insight into a fanboys mind people. :lol

 

[RSTEIN]

but when it comes down to it, the people who pay the devs bills are the hardcore gamers who drive with wheels and are dedicated to the series fidelity on the tracks accuracy more-so than graphically.

I wish this were true but I don't think it is... Of the millions of copies sold of both GT and Forza a small fraction could be considered hardcore sim racers.

 

[Ashes]

Function over Form. Would you buy your most beautiful/favorite Ferrarri/Supercar if the only condition was that it had an engine swap with a Kia?:lol

Function over form is causing the biggest problem here, and most likely the cause between the gulf. I agree with this statement, but standard cars seem to have put people off...

how do you rate this game? functionally it has more of the good stuff, i.e. driving but visually, it is lacking... consistancy...

 

[theignoramus]

Yeah the game looks so much better than Forza. No they both look shitty during the actual gameplay.

 

[Cuban Legend]

I wish this were true but I don't think it is... Of the millions of copies sold of both GT and Forza a small fraction could be considered hardcore sim racers.

I'm not speaking of upfront release sales...

Casuals play for a bit and then move onto the next 'big thing', hardcore/dedicated players keep playing regularly and thus (I'm speaking over time here), casuals don't buy as much DLC as hardcore/dedicated players do.

Though I wish this were more-so true of day/release sales as well... it would certainly show the disparity between the hardcore (real) community of sim games upfront.

 

[TwiztidElf]

Having played both now, I prefer Forza3.

Sure the driving model and the handling of the cars is marginally better in GT5, but the far superior and extensive feature set of Forza3 means it wins out overall by far.

Can't believe I'm saying this, but I miss rewind, particularly when you've been unfairly fucked over by the AI late in a race.

 

[ShogunX]

Bunch of unflattering screen shots

You sure showed him.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

If I remember correctly during the Forza 3 pre-launch marketing tour they went around to a bunch of racing events and had actual race drivers use their set ups and the real track times were virtually the same. I can't find the link tho.

I can, at least for one of them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I295JjUBrqY

 

[duk]

Can PD patch all these problems over time? I am assuming they will take awhile to patch everything.

 

[beast786]

Having played both now, I prefer Forza3.

Sure the driving model and the handling of the cars is marginally better in GT5, but the far superior and extensive feature set of Forza3 means it wins out overall by far.
Can't believe I'm saying this, but I miss rewind, particularly when you've been unfairly fucked over by the AI late in a race.

Seriouly, How are we suppose to take this guy seriously.

 

[Snuggles]

Wow, so did Forza win? I didn't see that coming, damn. I guess it's nice to see an underdog story every now and then...

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Wow, so did Forza win? I didn't see that coming, damn. I guess it's nice to see an underdog story every now and then...

This is the wrong thread to expect any sort of serious answer. :lol

 

[ShogunX]

Can PD patch all these problems over time? I am assuming they will take awhile to patch everything.

I dont see why not but to be honest it's a complete and utter piss take that the game launched anything but perfect.

 

[mil6es]

Can PD patch all these problems over time? I am assuming they will take awhile to patch everything.

Yamauchi announced that the launch of Gran Turismo 5 marks the beginning of a “new era” for the GT series. GT5 will be regularly updated and expanded in the coming weeks and months, and there are apparently many exciting things in store for us.

so hopefully :lol

 

[Stallion Free]

I don't get how you guys can overlook how a track looks in a game, it's what I stare at all race long. And ignoramus, the tracks still look like shit in the shots you posted. I don't get why track visuals take such a severe back seat in these games. It aggravated the shit out of me in Forza and it's doing the same here with GT.

 

[Loudninja]

so hopefully :lol

2 patches already one this week and another next week.

 

[nib95]

Having played both now, I prefer Forza3.

Sure the driving model and the handling of the cars is marginally better in GT5, but the far superior and extensive feature set of Forza3 means it wins out overall by far.

Can't believe I'm saying this, but I miss rewind, particularly when you've been unfairly fucked over by the AI late in a race.

Lol wut? You think Forza 3 has a more extensive feature set than GT5? Really?....I'm baffled by that. Forza may have more tuning options, but actual features? Dynamic weather and day/night cycles, Nascar, F1, Go-karting, Rally and more.

Also, some of you guys have insanely ridiculous standards if you think the above shots are bad. You guys must think every racing game this gen is bad looking, because actual in-game screenshots aren't as pretty as what you get on screen. Not the same colouring or cleanliness due to being so close to the screen on a PC/Mac.

I dont see why not but to be honest it's a complete and utter piss take that the game launched anything but perfect.

Lol, some of you posters are absolutely ridiculous.

 

[J-Rzez]

Wow, so did Forza win? I didn't see that coming, damn. I guess it's nice to see an underdog story every now and then...

Naw, GT5 is the king handily, it's just that it didn't reach the expectations of perfection that many (myself included) expected. You get some pretty low moments that knock GT5 down, but it's just when everything clicks and syncs, it's pretty amazing if you're a car guy.

So many things caught me off guard.
- Audio. Even through my trusty lossless rig the audio is pretty weak, especially the car notes.
- Supposed glitches that happen that make the cars/tracks at times look embarassing.
- Physics. Massive improvement, the game feels absolutely great.

Didn't get to try online yet.

but the far superior and extensive feature set of Forza3 means it wins out overall by far.

Heh.

 

[jedimike]

I dont see why not but to be honest it's a complete and utter piss take that the game launched anything but perfect.

There was certainly tremendous pressure to get this out prior to Black Friday in the US. I can't blame Sony really... they needed a heavy hitter for the Holidays and PD could have spent the next year tweaking, balancing, and perfecting. At some point, you have to get it to consumers.

I'm happy to see PD and Sony get this out, but I have to admit, there's a part me doing a fist pump for the guys at Turn 10.

 

[mentalfloss]

Remove "Forza 3 won, get over it"

and replace with

"GT5 is the king, handily"

 

[duk]

How come I don't hear much complaining on FPS drop and screen tearing? Is it not that bad? Reading 20% frames tearing on some tracks is just horrible in a game that depends on rock solid 60fps.

 

[enzo_gt]

So because people post photomode shots of a game showcasing what the game can truly do, that makes it OK to post crappy compressed shots that falsely portray the games graphics in a poor light.

Wow an insight into a fanboys mind people. :lol

No, its not okay. Go read my post again. And this time let it sit with you for more than a minute before you continue to perpetuate any of this double standards bullshit any more than people already have in this thread. Not my fault I have to be the counterpoint to the people only willing to look at the GT side of things.

 

[theignoramus]

You sure showed him.

If you think the lighting is "unflattering" in those screens, then you MUST think FM3's lighting is frightfully bad.:lol

 

[weekend_warrior]

How come I don't hear much complaining on FPS drop and screen tearing? Is it not that bad? Reading 20% frames tearing on some tracks is just horrible in a game that depends on rock solid 60fps.

I must not have very good eyes because I haven't noticed any screen tearing or FPS drop.

 

[dark10x]

You sure showed him.

You don't think those look good? Really?

The thing that just blew me away visually is the night racing (especially the day to night cycles). I just raced the Toscana track and, man, the was perhaps the first time I could say a racing game delivered anything approaching atmosphere. Seriously, watching the sunset as I whipped around the course was just incredible. There was a beautiful remixed London Elektricity track playing to the whole thing that really topped off the experience. As night fell, the whole soundscape changed and the desert became quieter while gusts of wind picked up all around me. The way the headlights play off the surfaces realistically made it FEEL like night racing in a way that I've never seen. My car has HID lights in real life and the effect of the light hitting signs is portrayed perfectly here.

I have to say, it was something special. It's a shame the game is such a mixed bag. Some of the basic tracks raced in daylight just don't look all that attractive. The city courses are glorious, of course, but there are a lot of average looking tracks.

There's a recipe for beautiful visuals here, but it's very uneven. I feel that the only way they could really nail the visuals all the way through would be to limit the content available. There are just too many variables at play here and they obviously could not deliver content at an even quality.

Also, it's a shame about the 1080p mode. It looks much nicer, but man, the framerate just doesn't hold up. It's not perfect in 720p either, but it's much steadier overall.

I especially love this shot. It really captures night time driving in the rain better than any other game I've ever seen. Seriously, there isn't anything even remotely close to this.

 

[ShogunX]

Lol, some of you posters are absolutely ridiculous.

In what way is it ridiculous to expect a game that was hyped as the second coming of jesus christ and has been in development for five years to be close to racing perfection? GT 5 should of blew Forza 3 completely out of the water and anyone with at least one working eyeball can see that it quite clearly has not.

This isn't some B tier franchise we are talking about here it's Gran fucking Turismo the biggest and best selling core racing game on the planet. So the fact that it's reviewing worse than a game that took half the time to make is worrying.

If GT5 lives up to all it was expected to be this thread would be DEAD.

You don't think those look good? Really?

Not all of them do no. It's Gran Turismo - It's the world premiere racing franchise. I expect better.

Apologies but like I said above GT 5 should of been unquestionable in its dominance.

 

[Cuban Legend]

Function over form is causing the biggest problem here, and most likely the cause between the gulf. I agree with this statement, but standard cars seem to have put people off...

how do you rate this game? functionally it has more of the good stuff, i.e. driving but visually, it is lacking.

I'm speaking in general terms, I'm not speaking of any game in particular. In my above post, but regarding the quote i quoted, it's what brought me to the through of

Function
Form

Forza has a lot of the mechanical sides covered for us hardcore/gear-heads, while keeping them mostly optional for casual accessibility. Same goes for driving aids and painting. There is a storefront casuals can use to buy thier way to a great car instead of doing it themselves... In Depth Tuning allows for hardcore advantages while the storefront for car tunes evens it out for accessibility to casuals once more. Drift, Drag and Stock Car Gametypes are my favorite because they are all akin to my PC-sim roots and real-life connection to my love of cars/events i go to see them compete in. My biggest plus (even more-so now that I've been through&through with GT5) is that every car in the game is reconstructed with fidelity as well so you can drive each car the way it's meant to be from within the cockpit. There being 500 cars all meticulously handpicked lends itself to that to not be a negative point, so GT's higher car count can only be a plus for GT. Weather and Night Racing/Time Cycles are missing but I've never really had a reason to complain about them being missing with Forza, so it can only be a plus for GT. The sound fidelity along with how they translate to engine/upgrade changes is amazing and really showcases the grunt of the vehicles as closely as I'd expect with simulation in mind.

GT has a more general overview of racing/driving and appeals to the mass crowds a bit more because of pedigree and the fist impression the visual style has due to it's attractiveness . The inclusion of WRC events, NASCAR/stock car events and Go-Karts is a big plus albeit each aren't as in-depth as games dedicated to those events as a whole. B-Spec is 'interesting' if not a nice distraction from "driving" in a driving game... The Licences( basically "Learning Curve-Driving School gamemode") are a GT Standard and I miss not seeing them in Forza because it's such a casually accessible title in so many other ways, also they are challenging and fun car driving puzzles to me as a hardcore driver. The huge roster of cars is excellent, basically adding in my favorite last-gen game's cars (GT4) so i couldn't care less if they're directly ported and look like minecraft. The premium cars seem to have more up-close detail then those in Forza, which can be great for those who like photomode. The sounds in the game are all reminiscent of those from past games, tires, in-game collisions and Menu/UI are harbingers of heartfelt memories of games past albeit the cars seem to lack a bit in terms of audible grunt that the posses in real life. And finally the lighting engine is great and even closer to a pseudo-real style gamers look for.

 

[Baby Milo]

Not my fault I have to be the counterpoint to the people only willing to look at the GT side of things.

U dont even own the game

im not sure how you can be a counterpoint against GT

 

[dimb]

You don't think those look good? Really?

To me there is just something that looks off about GT5 visually. It's like someone took a picture of an object and pasted it on to something flat to recreate it.

 

[.la1n]

^
BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN!?

edit: in reference to the pictures posted.

edit 2: finally have my copy, i'm having quite a bit of fun with it. I had skipped GT4 except for playing at friends' houses but it's good to be back behind the wheel for 5. I can see myself spending quite a bit of time on this one.