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[ColR100]

People think a metacritic score decides which game is "best"? So everyone just throws out expectations, year of release, player base longevity, and the fact that the gaming media does not really know how to score racing simulators. My take is they look at the surface - check boxes, but really don't know anything about racing and cars. But the biggest thing GT5 has working against it is every review starts with "Six years in the making and lots of hype...". FM has always been the underdog, and they really helps (along with being a more casual game).

It's not an issue, enjoy both games for what they are...and I'm very much enjoying GT5 currently.

It's just a fact though, stating these numbers shows that the average review scores between these two games falls in Forza 3's favor.

I never go by review scores myself when purchasing games (GAF opinion is always enough), and I agree, can't be read into too much because we all have different tastes.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

The last racing sim I really loved was GT3 A-spec. After that I couldn't really maintain my excitement for either GT4 and GT5rologue. I liked a lot of things about F3 especially how nice it was to just immediately jump in and play but I felt I was being to coddled the whole time and my interest waned pretty quickly. GT5 so far is my favorite of the whole series. There are definitely problems with it but they haven't done enough to hamper my excitement. Its the only racing game where I will finish a race with my hands in a death-grip on the steering wheel because of how intense and drawn in I was. I think as a overall "experience" there is something very different with GT compared to Forza that for me just works more.

 

[brain_stew]

the ps360 framerate analysis is out

http://blog.livedoor.jp/ps360/archives/51644734.html

Special stage route 7
Race: Avg: 55.288fps Min-Max :35.5-60 .0 fps Tear: 53.302%
　Replay: Avg: 29.914fps Min-Max :26.0-30 .0 fps Tear: 2.389%

Snow
　Race: Avg: 57.419fps Min-Max :43.5-60 .0 fps Tear: 31.658%
　Replay: Avg: 29.753fps Min-Max :18.5-30 .0 fps Tear: 2.437%

London
　Race: Avg: 57.110fps Min-Max :48.5-60 .0 fps Tear: 53.002%
　Replay: Avg: 29.485fps Min-Max :25.0-30 .0 fps Tear: 10.478%

GT5 Prologue London
　Race: Avg: 60.000fps Min-Max :60.0-60 .0 fps Tear: 0.198%
　Replay: Avg: 29.984fps Min-Max :29.0-30 .0 fps Tear: 1.786%

53% tearing!!

Guess I'll never be able to enjoy GT5 then, sucks.

Please ditch the ugly weather effects Polyphony, I don't want those unsightly artefacts and I want my near locked 60fps back.

Is there an option to completely disable them in all modes?

 

[BeeDog]

It's insane how much worse GT5 is performing compared to GT5 on the same track and same circumstances. I truly hope the upcoming patches sort this shit out and reduce the tearing. But it's probably a dream either way.

 

[-viper-]

At least the framerate is currently the right side of 50. 55 and 57FPS isn't too far from 60 so I hope it will be fixed.

Screen tearing is worse than dropped frames in my book though. But whether PD are going to patch the fixes I have my doubts.

If Prologue maintained 60FPS with no tearing, then so should GT5.

 

[soundscream]

the ps360 framerate analysis is out

http://blog.livedoor.jp/ps360/archives/51644734.html

Special stage route 7
Race: Avg: 55.288fps Min-Max :35.5-60 .0 fps Tear: 53.302%
　Replay: Avg: 29.914fps Min-Max :26.0-30 .0 fps Tear: 2.389%

Snow
　Race: Avg: 57.419fps Min-Max :43.5-60 .0 fps Tear: 31.658%
　Replay: Avg: 29.753fps Min-Max :18.5-30 .0 fps Tear: 2.437%

London
　Race: Avg: 57.110fps Min-Max :48.5-60 .0 fps Tear: 53.002%
　Replay: Avg: 29.485fps Min-Max :25.0-30 .0 fps Tear: 10.478%

GT5 Prologue London
　Race: Avg: 60.000fps Min-Max :60.0-60 .0 fps Tear: 0.198%
　Replay: Avg: 29.984fps Min-Max :29.0-30 .0 fps Tear: 1.786%

See this is Why Kaz Should be doing less of this

And more this

He needs to look at what state his game is in and make the hard decisions as to what stays and what goes to deliver the best overall package.

Forza3 had cockpit shifting animations while in development, but they were not able to get it right in time for release. So what did they do? They took it out and patched it in a couple months after release.

I love the options and variety GT5 offers, but to be honest I would rather have an even experience with less highs and lows, because the lows can really let you down when your thinking how great it could have been.

 

[adamsapple]

Special stage route 7
Race: Avg: 55.288fps Min-Max :35.5-60 .0 fps Tear: 53.302%
　Replay: Avg: 29.914fps Min-Max :26.0-30 .0 fps Tear: 2.389%

London
　Race: Avg: 57.110fps Min-Max :48.5-60 .0 fps Tear: 53.002%
　Replay: Avg: 29.485fps Min-Max :25.0-30 .0 fps Tear: 10.478%

God damn..

I think the only other game I've seen with that much tearing is the 360 port of Gothic 4

 

[weekend_warrior]

Some of these posts read like they're from people who haven't even played GT5. "But the numbers! The numbers say!" I've played over 20 hours of GT5 and have noticed absolutely zero screen tearing. Obviously my eyes aren't as sensitive to it, but I was keenly aware of the God-awful driving and collision physics of Forza 3. Oh I can drift around corners on my front-wheel drive under powered Honda Civic? Fantastic Turn-10, fantastic. And it's pretty clear why they added rewind, 9 out 10 races resulted in getting spun out when the AI barely taps you in a corner. Having to restart a race 15 times because of that would be enough for me to punch a hole through my TV screen.

 

[enzo_gt]

Some of these posts read like they're from people who haven't even played GT5. "But the numbers! The numbers say!" I've played over 20 hours of GT5 and have noticed absolutely zero screen tearing. Obviously my eyes aren't as sensitive to it, but I was keenly aware of the God-awful driving and collision physics of Forza 3. Oh I can drift around corners on my front-wheel drive under powered Honda Civic? Fantastic Turn-10, fantastic. And it's pretty clear why they added rewind, 9 out 10 races resulted in getting spun out when the AI barely taps you in a corner. Having to restart a race 15 times because of that would be enough for me to punch a hole through my TV screen.

To be fair, most of the people using the big numbers are the ones on the GT side.

Rain!
Snow!
Clear weather!
Day!
Night!
That's like FIVE different conditions right there! THEREFORE THE GAME IS GREATER THAN FORZA.

And I've never drifted in a FWD Honda Civic. Ever. So I'm presuming that's hyperbole? Because the FWD Civic almost always ends up giving lots of understeer around corners. Not sure where the drifting comes in.

 

[Jonsoncao]

Some of these posts read like they're from people who haven't even played GT5. "But the numbers! The numbers say!" I've played over 20 hours of GT5 and have noticed absolutely zero screen tearing. Obviously my eyes aren't as sensitive to it, but I was keenly aware of the God-awful driving and collision physics of Forza 3. Oh I can drift around corners on my front-wheel drive under powered Honda Civic? Fantastic Turn-10, fantastic. And it's pretty clear why they added rewind, 9 out 10 races resulted in getting spun out when the AI barely taps you in a corner. Having to restart a race 15 times because of that would be enough for me to punch a hole through my TV screen.

oh boy, I hate to admit that I was a fan of Gran Turismo series by looking at other's posts

EDIT: just an FYI, I ve completed Pro series, gold'd IA+S license tests, AMG academy

 

[soundscream]

Some of these posts read like they're from people who haven't even played GT5. "But the numbers! The numbers say!" I've played over 20 hours of GT5 and have noticed absolutely zero screen tearing. Obviously my eyes aren't as sensitive to it, but I was keenly aware of the God-awful driving and collision physics of Forza 3. Oh I can drift around corners on my front-wheel drive under powered Honda Civic? Fantastic Turn-10, fantastic. And it's pretty clear why they added rewind, 9 out 10 races resulted in getting spun out when the AI barely taps you in a corner. Having to restart a race 15 times because of that would be enough for me to punch a hole through my TV screen.

Bull Shit. Playing in cockpit view I am alway looking down track in the middle of the screen and the tearing is everywhere. EviLore even posted in the review thread he had to stop playing because of it. Have your opinion but dont start making stuff up like the screen tearing isn't noticeable.

 

[brain_stew]

Some of these posts read like they're from people who haven't even played GT5. "But the numbers! The numbers say!" I've played over 20 hours of GT5 and have noticed absolutely zero screen tearing. .

Well, you see, some of us aren't blind. Clearly, you are.

 

[LCfiner]

Some of these posts read like they're from people who haven't even played GT5. "But the numbers! The numbers say!" I've played over 20 hours of GT5 and have noticed absolutely zero screen tearing.

the screen tearing is definitely more noticeable on some tracks than others. I see it all the time on the London track. you may not notice it as much as other but the numbers are pretty representative of what I’ve been seeing, that’s for sure.

 

[Mizzou Gaming]

Some of these posts read like they're from people who haven't even played GT5. "But the numbers! The numbers say!" I've played over 20 hours of GT5 and have noticed absolutely zero screen tearing. Obviously my eyes aren't as sensitive to it, but I was keenly aware of the God-awful driving and collision physics of Forza 3. Oh I can drift around corners on my front-wheel drive under powered Honda Civic? Fantastic Turn-10, fantastic. And it's pretty clear why they added rewind, 9 out 10 races resulted in getting spun out when the AI barely taps you in a corner. Having to restart a race 15 times because of that would be enough for me to punch a hole through my TV screen.

I am sorry dude but if you can't see the screen tearing in GT5 you are pretty fucking blind.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

Bull Shit. Playing in cockpit view I am alway looking down track in the middle of the screen and the tearing is everywhere. EviLore even posted in the review thread he had to stop playing because of it. Have your opinion but dont start making stuff up like the screen tearing isn't noticeable.

I hardly notice it. That's playing with bumpercam. Sometimes it catches my eye but I'm too busy driving to be bothered by it.

 

[soundscream]

I hardly notice it. That's playing with bumpercam. Sometimes it catches my eye but I'm too busy driving to be bothered by it.

Its not enough to make me stop playing but dont come and spread BS about it not being there. Im not a console warrior I have all 3 systems and spent upwards of $600 on a racing setup to take advantage of both of these games. I will admit GT5 is the better simulator of the two but the game is not polished at all.

 

[CozMick]

Just finished up an online race of 16 players.

Picture the setting..........

Nurburgring, 16 Mercedes SLS '10s, bright sunny day in Germany, mid race clouds hang over the track, the rain starts to pour, I turn on my windscreen wipers, all is good, I take 3rd place, the sun sets, I turn on my high beams, the track is lit up like a xmas tree, I finsh the race............THE END!

Only on Playstation!

:lol

 

[Diablohead]

53% tearing is going to be annoying any way you cut it, over half the frames are torn in some way or sliced, that shit is rather overkill.

I can live with no vsync in games but at that rate...

 

[enzo_gt]

Just finished up an online race of 16 players.

Picture the setting..........

Nurburgring, 16 Mercedes SLS '10s, bright sunny day in Germany, mid race clouds hang over the track, the rain starts to pour, I turn on my windscreen wipers, all is good, I take 3rd place, the sun sets, I turn on my high beams, the track is lit up like a xmas tree, I finsh the race............THE END!

Only on Playstation!

:lol

Now I'm completely sure you work for Sony.

 

[Xun]

Now I'm completely sure you work for Sony.

The Wind Waker avatar is there to deceive us.

 

[Risette]

the ps360 framerate analysis is out

http://blog.livedoor.jp/ps360/archives/51644734.html

Special stage route 7
Race: Avg: 55.288fps Min-Max :35.5-60 .0 fps Tear: 53.302%
　Replay: Avg: 29.914fps Min-Max :26.0-30 .0 fps Tear: 2.389%

Snow
　Race: Avg: 57.419fps Min-Max :43.5-60 .0 fps Tear: 31.658%
　Replay: Avg: 29.753fps Min-Max :18.5-30 .0 fps Tear: 2.437%

London
　Race: Avg: 57.110fps Min-Max :48.5-60 .0 fps Tear: 53.002%
　Replay: Avg: 29.485fps Min-Max :25.0-30 .0 fps Tear: 10.478%

GT5 Prologue London
　Race: Avg: 60.000fps Min-Max :60.0-60 .0 fps Tear: 0.198%
　Replay: Avg: 29.984fps Min-Max :29.0-30 .0 fps Tear: 1.786%

Wow. I was going to buy this but not now. Up to 53% tearing? Jeez. I'm sensitive to tearing (not as sensitive as EviLore though) and this will probably bother me a lot.

And why does it perform worse than Prologue?

 

[LCfiner]

Just finished up an online race of 16 players.

Picture the setting..........

Nurburgring, 16 Mercedes SLS '10s, bright sunny day in Germany, mid race clouds hang over the track, the rain starts to pour, I turn on my windscreen wipers, all is good, I take 3rd place, the sun sets, I turn on my high beams, the track is lit up like a xmas tree, I finsh the race............THE END!

Only on Playstation!

:lol

posts like this make me embarrassed that I enjoy GT5 :lol

 

[Xun]

Wow. I was going to buy this but not now. Up to 53% tearing? Jeez. I'm sensitive to tearing (not as sensitive as EviLore though) and this will probably bother me a lot.

And why does it perform worse than Prologue?

I was thinking the same thing.

Hopefully it can be patched.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

When's the performance patch supposed to be released?

 

[Ogrekiller]

Just finished up an online race of 16 players.

Picture the setting..........

Nurburgring, 16 Mercedes SLS '10s, bright sunny day in Germany, mid race clouds hang over the track, the rain starts to pour, I turn on my windscreen wipers, all is good, I take 3rd place, the sun sets, I turn on my high beams, the track is lit up like a xmas tree, I finsh the race............THE END!

Only on Playstation!

:lol

Is it running at 2560x1600 @ 60fps with triple buffering? NO? TAKE AWAY HIS PC MASTER RACE BADGE NOW!

 

[hamchan]

Yeah I haven't noticed much framerate drops or screen tearing but then again I'm not very sensitive to stuff like that and only really notice it when people on GAF point it out and I look for it. Great to be me huh.

 

[soundscream]

Wow. I was going to buy this but not now. Up to 53% tearing? Jeez. I'm sensitive to tearing (not as sensitive as EviLore though) and this will probably bother me a lot.

And why does it perform worse than Prologue?

Gran Turismo 5 :

16 cars on track at once.
Rain
Snow
Night racing
day/night cycle
1080p
Kart Racing
NASCAR
World Rally Championship
8mp Photo mode
16 player Multiplayer online
1000+ cars
Course Creator
Licenses
Spectator mode
Working headlights, windscreen wipers
Updates for "months and years to come"
B-Spec RPG element
Stereoscopic 3D

Spin it anyway you want, with texture zooming or pixel counting, GT5 is in a league of it's own.

Sometimes less is more.

 

[sajj316]

I was looking at the videos by ps360frame and something doesn't seem right. The frame rate analyzer picks up the rates properly but sometimes it registers frame tears but I don't see any of it on screen.

Edit: Looked again. I know I'm not going crazy. Screen tear analysis is not correct

 

[Mad_Ban]

53% tearing is more than Call of Juarez had, and it was VERY noticable. I didn't notice it as much in GT5. Is it in a certain area of the overscan?

 

[TheExecutive]

Yes, it's a feature, probably not a good one, but still a feature.

No. It is not a feature.

 

[Surfheart]

Holy shit I thought those screenshots of the ugly pixelated cars was some badly shopped troll but they are REAL WTF!!!?!?! I just saw one of them in game.

 

[ShapeGSX]

At least the framerate is currently the right side of 50. 55 and 57FPS isn't too far from 60 so I hope it will be fixed.

Dropped frames basically means that motion on the screen isn't going to be smooth. It doesn't really matter that the average is close to 60fps. The minimum of 35.5fps is pretty awful, and very noticeable.

 

[Kaako]

Tearing in GT5 is apparent in some tracks more than others. The mountain one has a lot of it I believe. Hope they patch it somehow for the people that are sensitive to tearing.
The car handling/physics is the best I've played in a racing game bar none. This game is motherfucking addictive though; probably my most played game this year next to SSFIV and its only been out for a few days.

 

[TheExecutive]

...WTF at the screen tearing in London

This is the one thing that is absolutely driving me nuts in GT5. I cant stand tearing and it happens EVERYPLACE when cars are onscreen. PD tried to do too much with the graphics and ended up being mediocre in a lot of categories because of it. In fact, GT5 feels like a pretty good GT6: Prologue. They needed to bring the scope of the project down a couple of notches.

 

[TheExecutive]

He needs to look at what state his game is in and make the hard decisions as to what stays and what goes to deliver the best overall package.

Forza3 had cockpit shifting animations while in development, but they were not able to get it right in time for release. So what did they do? They took it out and patched it in a couple months after release.

I love the options and variety GT5 offers, but to be honest I would rather have an even experience with less highs and lows, because the lows can really let you down when your thinking how great it could have been.

This. As the director of the project the weight falls directly on his shoulders and he should have scaled it back.

 

[LCfiner]

This is the one thing that is absolutely driving me nuts in GT5. I cant stand tearing and it happens EVERYPLACE when cars are onscreen. PD tried to do too much with the graphics and ended up being mediocre in a lot of categories because of it. In fact, GT5 feels like a pretty good GT6: Prologue. They needed to bring the scope of the project down a couple of notches.

before GT5 came out, I was thinking that I would like GT6 on the PS3.

but now, I’ve completely flipped my position and I would much rather GT6 come out on PS4, whether that be 2012 or 2013 or whatever.

I’ll be content with DLC packs for more GT5 content. I want PD aiming at a higher powered machine for their next game.

 

[TheExecutive]

before GT5 came out, I was thinking that I would like GT6 on the PS3.

but now, I’ve completely flipped my position and I would much rather GT6 come out on PS4, whether that be 2012 or 2013 or whatever.

I’ll be content with DLC packs for more GT5 content. I want PD aiming at a higher powered machine for their next game.

I dunno, they will never go backwards but they should have dropped the resolution to 720 so I totally agree with you. GT6 on PS4.

 

[-viper-]

before GT5 came out, I was thinking that I would like GT6 on the PS3.

but now, I’ve completely flipped my position and I would much rather GT6 come out on PS4, whether that be 2012 or 2013 or whatever.

I’ll be content with DLC packs for more GT5 content. I want PD aiming at a higher powered machine for their next game.

Completely agree.

They should spend all this time developing GT6 for the PS4 and release it as a launch title.

Unless, they can release GT6 with the same level of polish as Prologue Spec III.

 

[Painraze]

Some of these posts read like they're from people who haven't even played GT5. "But the numbers! The numbers say!" I've played over 20 hours of GT5 and have noticed absolutely zero screen tearing.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you have no idea what screen tearing is if you cant see it in GT5.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

I dunno, they will never go backwards but they should have dropped the resolution to 720 so I totally agree with you. GT6 on PS4.

Why do people bring up "drop the resolution to 720p" all the time. You CAN play in 720p if you want to. 1080p isn't mandatory.

 

[LCfiner]

Why do people bring up "drop the resolution to 720p" all the time. You CAN play in 720p if you want to. 1080p isn't mandatory.

Plus, I’m playing at 720p and all the issues are still present. the tearing, the low res transparent particles, etc.

even 720p was a very ambitious target for the effects PD wanted to implement.

that said, when racing, the game looks very, very good most of the time. but when they tried to overreach, the limitations of the tech become painfully apparent.

 

[DodgerSan]

I hardly notice it. That's playing with bumpercam. Sometimes it catches my eye but I'm too busy driving to be bothered by it.

This is definitely a factor. I was showing my brother the game yesterday for the first time and he was constantly commenting on the tearing. I'm not usually sensitive to it, so hadn't really noticed. When I handed him the controller and was spectating, yeah, it's very noticeable.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Plus, I’m playing at 720p and all the issues are still present. the tearing, the low res transparent particles, etc.

even 720p was a very ambitious target for the effects PD wanted to implement.

that said, when racing, the game looks very, very good most of the time. but when they tried to overreach, the limitations of the tech become painfully apparent.

Seems like the performance patch is coming out Dec 1st, so that should smooth out things a little bit.

Really seems like this build was forced into production. All the early patching and very obvious errors give it away.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Seems like the performance patch is coming out Dec 1st, so that should smooth out things a little bit.

Really seems like this build was forced into production. All the early patching and very obvious errors give it away.

I don't know what they could accomplish in a couple weeks that they couldn't accomplish in 5 years.

 

[FStop7]

And can someone explain to me what's wrong in that gif of the R8 and 911?

It's just a texture swap. Certain pieces can break off (front/rear bumper covers and sometimes the rear wing) but the damage modeling is pretty limited.

Neither GT5 nor FM3 have particularly good crashes. Criterion could teach the developers of both a thing or two (see - Burnout and NFS Hot Pursuit). Even Dirt 2 had better crashes.

'dem cones

I'm in love with the game, but we are all in this thread for the laughs.

Had the same thing happen. Talk about exposing a weakness of the physics.

 

[flyinpiranha]

Some of these posts read like they're from people who haven't even played GT5. "But the numbers! The numbers say!" I've played over 20 hours of GT5 and have noticed absolutely zero screen tearing. Obviously my eyes aren't as sensitive to it, but I was keenly aware of the God-awful driving and collision physics of Forza 3. Oh I can drift around corners on my front-wheel drive under powered Honda Civic? Fantastic Turn-10, fantastic. And it's pretty clear why they added rewind, 9 out 10 races resulted in getting spun out when the AI barely taps you in a corner. Having to restart a race 15 times because of that would be enough for me to punch a hole through my TV screen.

I get that tap in a corner in GT5 too, it's not just F3 that does that. And the tearing will come once you unlock more premium cars and courses. I was in the same boat with about 20 hours in but now I'm more than that and I see it more often when more premiums are on the road and more effects are happening.

And "God-awful driving and collision physics of F3"? ... hyperbole much? Playing GT5 for 25+ hours now (probably more) and playing F3 well into S5 (Driver lvl 40+ I think) they are VERY comparable. To say one is "God-awful" is saying the other is too.

 

[Xun]

I get that tap in a corner in GT5 too, it's not just F3 that does that. And the tearing will come once you unlock more premium cars and courses. I was in the same boat with about 20 hours in but now I'm more than that and I see it more often when more premiums are on the road and more effects are happening.

And "God-awful driving and collision physics of F3"? ... hyperbole much? Playing GT5 for 25+ hours now (probably more) and playing F3 well into S5 (Driver lvl 40+ I think) they are VERY comparable. To say one is "God-awful" is saying the other is too.

Indeed.

They're both top notch games with strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Niks]

sorry if old.

Gran Turismo 5 vs Forza Motorsports 3: Ferrari F430 @ Nurburgring GP Course
by insidesimeracing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1KVKSIVdK8

Thoughts?
:lol

 

[roxya]

I play GT5 using bumper cam so I don't really have any issues with frame rate/tearing, but I admit it can be quite dodgy in cockpit view.

 

[KHarvey16]

sorry if old.

Gran Turismo 5 vs Forza Motorsports 3: Ferrari F430 @ Nurburgring GP Course
by insidesimeracing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1KVKSIVdK8

Thoughts?
:lol

GT has more natural lighting, F3 sounds a lot better. No idea which is a better representation of the real track.