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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35

A

adelante

Member
phosphor112 said:
Most cars maybe.

There are some slight differences showing they did refine the models, but the level of detail in both games are very similar.

http://i52.tinypic.com/2093wp3.jpg[//IMG][/QUOTE]
Well, how much different can that car model look anyway? At a glance you can see fully polygonal badges and higher geometry count in the body curves; the Camaro's as improved as it can be in Forza3


[QUOTE=phosphor112]Is that an exported model to a PC sim?[/QUOTE]
wat
Click to expand...
 
P

phosphor112

Banned
adelante said:
Well, how much different can that car model look anyway? At a glance you can see fully polygonal badges and higher geometry count in the body curves; the Camaro's as improved as it can be in Forza3
Click to expand...

Well yeah, I'm just saying most aren't remodeled. They are touched up (which are highly appreciated).

adelante said:
wat
Click to expand...

http://forum.xentax.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=4256&sid=8612ba19d14576550451e983fdc5a2fc

People are pulling models from FM3 and using them in PC sims.
 
A

adelante

Member
phosphor112 said:
Well yeah, I'm just saying most aren't remodeled. They are touched up (which are highly appreciated).
Click to expand...
Doesn't diminish the fact that Turn10 paid attention to those models even though they needed just some "touching up". Unfortunately, the same can't be said for a certain other developer but yeah, priorities.
 
P

phosphor112

Banned
adelante said:
Doesn't diminish the fact that Turn10 paid attention to those models even though they needed just some "touching up". Unfortunately, the same can't be said for a certain other developer but yeah, priorities.
Click to expand...
I don't recall questioning the actual attention to detail of the developer. Someone said they were "remodeled" but they weren't. Interiors were added, and slight adding of polygons. Tessellate, and bam, up to standard with the rest.
 
S

shinnn

Member
SmokyDave said:
You're a gimp. That is all.

Furthermore, the sounds are OK (not great, not crap) pretty much everywhere outside the cockpit cam. When a 427 Cobra blasts past on a replay and the camera is feet away from the side exit exhaust, it sounds pretty damned fine.
Click to expand...
C'mon.

GT5 (showroom. WOW.. racing. WTF?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5BiGvpAG7c

FM3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LacDt-BsiY


phosphor112 said:
Is that an exported model to a PC sim?
Click to expand...
It's a modded version of FM3 with the higher polygon count model in gameplay.
 
I

infinityBCRT

Member
phosphor112 said:
One was built on a game engine that's been refined from 2 other games while one is from scratch.

What's your point again?

Quit your fanboy shit. It's stinking up the thread.
Click to expand...
I'd say they both are refined from other games.
 
G

Graphics Horse

Member
phosphor112 said:
Most cars maybe.

There are some slight differences showing they did refine the models, but the level of detail in both games are very similar.
Click to expand...

Maybe it was just a poor choice of image but it looks like everything has been remade with higher detail on the second pic, along with a noticably higher poly count.

RotBot said:
From a GTPlanet thread. Underside texture from a die-cast model complete with AutoArt logo and philips head screws. I'm guessing this is a standard car?
Click to expand...

Guess again :\
I remember some magazine (Top Gear?) talking about them having to scan the undersides of hundreds of cars for the new game.. That's not quite how I imagined it.
 
P

phosphor112

Banned
shinnn said:
C'mon.

GT5 (showroom. WOW.. racing. WTF?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5BiGvpAG7c

FM3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LacDt-BsiY
Click to expand...

GT5 definitely has a sound balancing issue. When playing, unless you have a really nice set-up and you're using the chase cam, the sound is bad, but if you're racing against someone and you're riding someones ass, you can hear the exhaust perfectly. It needs to be fixed. Another thing is that even though the convertibles obviously are open top they sound like they are in a fully enclosed cockpit, muffling exterior sound. It's an apparent problem.
 
A

adelante

Member
phosphor112 said:
I don't recall questioning the actual attention to detail of the developer. Someone said they were "remodeled" but they weren't. Interiors were added, and slight adding of polygons. Tessellate, and bam, up to standard with the rest.
Click to expand...
You're the one who said the level of details are similar in that Camaro comparison, as if to imply their refining efforts weren't necessary but the fact of the matter is, some cars DON'T require that much effort to get it to a "premium" standard when the base model they have to start refining from are that simple to begin with.
 
P

phosphor112

Banned
infinityBCRT said:
I'd say they both are refined from other games.
Click to expand...
While Prologue is considered a "game" to some, it was obviously a work in progress. Hell, all the features that make GT5's frame rate dip weren't in GT5P.

You are right though, both engines have been used in at least 1 previous game.

adelante said:
You're the one who said the level of details are similar in that Camaro comparison, as if to imply their refining efforts weren't necessary but the fact of the matter is, some cars DON'T require that much effort to get it to a "premium" standard when the base model they have to start refining from are that simple to begin with.
Click to expand...

Errm... let me say this again, all I said is that not all cars needed to be "remodeled," meaning made from scratch or requiring massive overhaul (something the standard cars in GT5 need to have). Turn 10 has had a recent enough game that their high detailed modeling of their previous game was enough to import into FM3 and touch up slightly. I didn't imply the effort was for not, all I'm saying is that a "remodel" isn't necessary.
 
V

-viper-

Banned
Graphics Horse said:
Maybe it was just a poor choice of image but it looks like everything has been remade with higher detail on the second pic, along with a noticably higher poly count.



Guess again :\
I remember some magazine (Top Gear?) talking about them having to scan the undersides of hundreds of cars for the new game.. That's not quite how I imagined it.
Click to expand...
or maybe the PS3 is simply too weak to handle detailed underside modelling/textures. Makes sense as you'll barely be able to notice it during gameplay. The game is already struggling to maintain 60FPS.
 
A

adelante

Member
phosphor112 said:
Errm... let me say this again, all I said is that not all cars needed to be "remodeled," meaning made from scratch or requiring massive overhaul (something the standard cars in GT5 need to have). Turn 10 has had a recent enough game that their high detailed modeling of their previous game was enough to import into FM3 and touch up slightly. I didn't imply the effort was for not, all I'm saying is that a "remodel" isn't necessary.
Click to expand...
ah well I guess I found that comparison to be kinda confusing, especially when you brought up "similar details" to describe the two versions because I see a much improved model from Forza3 (especially in terms of polygon count alone, though the difference may not appear to be that significant for other people)
 
P

phosphor112

Banned
-viper- said:
or maybe the PS3 is simply too weak to handle detailed underside modelling/textures. Makes sense as you'll barely be able to notice it during gameplay. The game is already struggling to maintain 60FPS.
Click to expand...

Maybe the LOD the bottom?... Idk. They need to fix the LOD system. I'd rather have them black out the interior and have a solid 60 fps.. and maybe even more cars on track as well!

They did something wrong though. Big time. Even the tracks without dynamic lighting and weather screen tear. Are the new physics calculations that harsh on the PS3? I wouldn't think so since PS3 has had many other games with high physics props do completely fine (though at 30fps..)

I still don't see why the game screen tears when its only standard cars on screen when in GT5P the game stayed at a 59fps average with 16 cars...

adelante said:
ah well I guess I found that comparison to be kinda confusing, especially when you brought up "similar details" to describe the two versions because I see a much improved model from Forza3 (especially in terms of polygon count alone, though the difference may not appear to be that significant for other people)
Click to expand...

I apologize for being confusing lol. T10 did a great job with the verticies on their models, when using the proper 3D modeling programs, you can easily do a "smoothing" or "subsurface" operation to make the cars look more refined and give them more polys. I linked a thread earlier this page, talks about people exporting the FM3 files over and making them into the "tessellated" cars that T10 has in showroom. The average polycount for the highest LOD is around 180k so it's apparent the ultra high detailed models are done on the fly, which is nice.
 
I

infinityBCRT

Member
phosphor112 said:
While Prologue is considered a "game" to some, it was obviously a work in progress. Hell, all the features that make GT5's frame rate dip weren't in GT5P.

You are right though, both engines have been used in at least 1 previous game.
Click to expand...
What about GT4? Maybe the engine has been built from scratch, but large chunks of content (tracks-redone in HD, standard cars, license tests, career progression) has been carried over from previous games (and refined/reworked quite a bit... but they definitely didn't start the game design from scratch)
 
Trickster

Trickster

Member
adelante said:
ah well I guess I found that comparison to be kinda confusing, especially when you brought up "similar details" to describe the two versions because I see a much improved model from Forza3 (especially in terms of polygon count alone, though the difference may not appear to be that significant for other people)
Click to expand...

No no, it's a very improved poly count. I was gonna bring it up but decided not too since I'm too tired to get into the debate atm.
 
G

Graphics Horse

Member
-viper- said:
or maybe the PS3 is simply too weak to handle detailed underside modelling/textures. Makes sense as you'll barely be able to notice it during gameplay. The game is already struggling to maintain 60FPS.
Click to expand...

Um.. I didn't mean the resolution I meant the scan from a scale model including branding and screws.
 
S

sdornan

Member
RotBot said:
From a GTPlanet thread. Underside texture from a die-cast model complete with AutoArt logo and philips head screws. I'm guessing this is a standard car?

EifelCircuit.jpg
Click to expand...
Holy shit...
 
S

see5harp

Member
Graphics Horse said:
Guess again :\
I remember some magazine (Top Gear?) talking about them having to scan the undersides of hundreds of cars for the new game.. That's not quite how I imagined it.
Click to expand...

I guess they were really rushing at that point if they couldn't even get someone to mask the logo on the texture. Maybe someone just missed it.
 
P

phosphor112

Banned
infinityBCRT said:
What about GT4? Maybe the engine has been built from scratch, but large chunks of content (tracks-redone in HD, standard cars, license tests, career progression) has been carried over from previous games (and refined/reworked quite a bit... but they definitely didn't start the game design from scratch)
Click to expand...
*facepunch* The game engine being made from scratch is what matters most. I was refering to how refined the game engine is. It's obvious PD dun goofed somewhere because it runs like ass. GT5P installed on the PS3 is about 8 gigs, yet GT5 installed is a little larger, but running significantly worse. I'm thinking it's the physics that's messing things up. PD has said the physics engine (even from GT5P) has been scrapped and redone.

Anyway, I was saying Turn 10 (since they are lucky to work with an architecture similar to a PC) can scale their engine easily.. from Forza 1 on Xbox, to Forza 2 and 3 on the 360. Solid game engines are made that way. For example the Source engine has seen many games, but it's constant refining results in still some amazing graphics for todays standards.
 
K

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
RotBot said:
From a GTPlanet thread. Underside texture from a die-cast model complete with AutoArt logo and philips head screws. I'm guessing this is a standard car?

EifelCircuit.jpg
Click to expand...

Development Cost: $60,000,000

Matchbox Car Collection: $87.95

Flatbed Scanner: $59.95

Gran Turismo 5: Priceless.
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
shinnn said:
I think it's a premium model.

Standard model:

*pic*
Click to expand...
:lol :lol :lol
 
R

RotBot

Member
Haunted said:
Well, before I've seen a Forza underside to compare these with, this particular contest is still up in the air!
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Forza uses generic underside textures.

Custom underbodies (with rollover comes undercarriage modeling - unfortunately, all the cars use a generic layouts, so sometimes they are wrong; like the Lamborghinis have the transmission rearward of the engine instead of infront, etc.)
Click to expand...
 
S

shinnn

Member
Haunted said:
Well, before I've seen a Forza underside to compare these with, this particular contest is still up in the air!
Click to expand...

we are just discussing if it's a premium or standard car in GT5... :D

btw

FM3
2zrkgu1.jpg


:lol
 
P

PjotrStroganov

Member
In some cars it sounds like they rehashed engine sounds from other cars after an upgrade. As if they didn't have the time or means to implement it correctly.
 
Slayer-33

Slayer-33

Liverpool-2
sdornan said:
Holy shit...
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Holy shit :lol :lol :lol


Progmetal said:
Crappy sound in both compared to the real thing though.

Wow at how much better GT5 looks in motion than F3.
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Because comparing different tracks is the fair thing to do, that first part of nurburgring will always be dull on any racing game. But yeah the driving model in GT 5 reminds me of F355 challenge which is a good thing.
 
G

G Rom

Member
shinnn said:
looks fine to me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18aXwaN2CoY&hd=1


any video showing how PD get the cars sound so crap?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. I had seen some of his videos but not the most recent ones with car presentations. As much as I like the Forza 3 menu soundtrack, nothing beats some good old classic music to show off a car ! :D
The replay videos are interesting. It seems that high LOD would have been possible for at least a car during replay without slowdown. I wonder if he tried with more cars.

These mods remind me of the PGR2 days when I used to mess with .ini files to make the cars look less plastic and to change their driving. Good times !:D
It would be awesome if he could reduce that big white splash on cars that Forza 3 has...
 
P

Progmetal

Member
Slayer-33 said:
Because comparing different tracks is the fair thing to do, that first part of nurburgring will always be dull on any racing game. But yeah the driving model in GT 5 reminds me of F355 challenge which is a good thing.
Click to expand...

I was just commenting on how much nicer the graphics are interiour wise, reflection on the car, etc. Doesn't matter what track it is.
 
S

See You Next Wednesday

Banned
G Rom said:
The hood/roof reflections are terrible in GT5, that's mainly why I never use this cam.
I wonder why they didn't use the trick from PGR4 that everyone is now using to achieve near perfect reflections in hood/roof and cockpit cams... :-/
Maybe a technical expert from NeoGAF could explain if there was something making this trick impossible to use in GT5 ?
Click to expand...

What trick in PGR4?
 
G

G Rom

Member
See You Next Wednesday said:
What trick in PGR4?
Click to expand...

They take the previous frame and apply it as a reflection. This allows a high quality reflection of pretty much every objects, including other cars.
It's used in PGR4, Dirt 2, Forza 3...
 
JRW

JRW

Member
theignoramus said:
PD fucked up with the engine sounds in bumper and cockpit view. The engines sound fine when in third person or roof cam.
Click to expand...

Yea I noticed this to, kinda annoying.
 
S

Shaneus

Member
G Rom said:
They take the previous frame and apply it as a reflection. This allows a high quality reflection of pretty much every objects, including other cars.
It's used in PGR4, Dirt 2, Forza 3...
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was considered pioneering stuff at the time from Bizarre... the reflections in Forza 2 (and in GT3, at least on the bonnet... yikes) look horrible.

And holy shit at the toy car texture :lol
 
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