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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35

S

scandisk_

Unconfirmed Member
Xun said:
I disagree with the guy on the right saying how the GT series has always been ahead in terms of physics.

I feel both games are only now on a level playing field (with physics), both being better than the other in different areas.
Click to expand...

he meant driving physics.
 
L

les papillons sexuels

Banned
scandisk_ said:
he meant driving physics.
Click to expand...

It might "feel" better, but the implementation of the physics doesn't mean the driving physics are actually better.

To me it's kinda like the difference between a scripted animation of a ball dropping and a procedural one. The scripted one might look more realistic, because it does a better job of catering to common concepts on how a ball drops, but the procedural one is more accurate.

Until i can see an accurate comparison of what forces are being calculated I'm not going to weigh in on which has the better physics. Even if one feels superior over the other.
 
C

cakefoo

Member
Forsete said:
GT5 in game Volvo C30 looks better than photomode Volvo C30 from Forza 3?











Toy Story 1 CG vs Toy Story 3 CG. If you know what I mean. :D
I see a lot of C30 around the streets and something is off about the F3 model, not sure what.
Click to expand...
PD even had the artistry of car lighting nailed in the PS1 days:

eb8jf.jpg


Good times.
 
S

scandisk_

Unconfirmed Member
les papillons sexuels said:
It might "feel" better, but the implementation of the physics doesn't mean the driving physics are actually better.

To me it's kinda like the difference between a scripted animation of a ball dropping and a procedural one. The scripted one might look more realistic, because it does a better job of catering to common concepts on how a ball drops, but the procedural one is more accurate.

Until i can see an accurate comparison of what forces are being calculated I'm not going to weigh in on which has the better physics. Even if one feels superior over the other.
Click to expand...


mmmkay :lol
 
M

Metalmurphy

Member
les papillons sexuels said:
It might "feel" better, but the implementation of the physics doesn't mean the driving physics are actually better.

To me it's kinda like the difference between a scripted animation of a ball dropping and a procedural one. The scripted one might look more realistic, because it does a better job of catering to common concepts on how a ball drops, but the procedural one is more accurate.

Until i can see an accurate comparison of what forces are being calculated I'm not going to weigh in on which has the better physics. Even if one feels superior over the other.
Click to expand...
:lol
 
Apex

Apex

Member
SPEA said:
And again...

Because they took the texture from a model car and stuck it on the underbelly of a car in the game. Could of at least blacked out the AutoArt logo . The fact that the bottom of the car is ugly is not why some people are laughing.

http://www.autoartmodels.com
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:lol

It's obvious a PD joke, like they did with Nessy and the Monkey, they took a real picture and edited some parts to look like an scale model undercarriage, it shows clearly how the side parts were pasted over the real picture(rusty pipes, detailed cables, different color, etc).

Nissan%20R34%20GTT%20rear%20lab.jpg


2wemlvo.jpg


EifelCircuit.jpg
 
S

sdornan

Member
Apex said:
:lol

It's obvious a PD joke, like they did with Nessy and the Monkey, they took a real picture and edited some parts to look like an scale model undercarriage, it shows clearly how the side parts were pasted over the real picture(rusty pipes, detailed cables, different color, etc).
Click to expand...
If that's their idea of a joke - an idea I find laughable - it's a really stupid joke.
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
Apex said:
:lol

It's obvious a PD joke, like they did with Nessy and the Monkey, they took a real picture and edited some parts to look like an scale model undercarriage, it shows clearly how the side parts were pasted over the real picture(rusty pipes, detailed cables, different color, etc).
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yeah. i'm sure there's some way you can explain away the inside of the tyres too.

new defence in this thread. F3 and GT5 don't have mistakes. they have jokes!
 
M

Metalmurphy

Member
sdornan said:
If that's their idea of a joke - an idea I find laughable - it's a really stupid joke.
Click to expand...

But you're ok with Hello Kitty GTRs i'm sure...


plagiarize said:
yeah. i'm sure there's some way you can explain away the inside of the tyres too.

new defence in this thread. F3 and GT5 don't have mistakes. they have jokes!
Click to expand...
He just put the proof in front of your eyes and you ignore it and post that?...
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Apex said:
:lol

It's obvious a PD joke, like they did with Nessy and the Monkey, they took a real picture and edited some parts to look like an scale model undercarriage, it shows clearly how the side parts were pasted over the real picture(rusty pipes, detailed cables, different color, etc).
Click to expand...


That actually makes more sense than the alternative, to be honest.
 
C

commedieu

Banned
user_nat said:
It's like you set out to make a neutral post.. and then somehow ended up squarely in fanboy town.
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well you're the only one that got it.
Its how the entire thread is...there is honestly no way it will ever end. Its like telling someone the raiders suck.

lowrider007 said:
I honest to God can't believe we are now analyzing the under carriages of cars now, I don't think I can even dream where this thread will take us next.
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exxxaacccttlyyy
 
lowrider007

lowrider007

Licorice-flavoured booze?
I honest to God can't believe we are now analyzing the under carriages of cars now, I don't think I can even dream where this thread will take us next.
 
LabouredSubterfuge

LabouredSubterfuge

Member
lowrider007 said:
I honest to God can't believe we are now analyzing the under carriages of cars now, I don't think I can even dream where this thread will take us next.
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Well we've not compared fonts yet.

And I believe Iknos was going to make an objective comparison of their 'fun' levels.
 
X

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
We should probably quote this ever couple of pages to maintain some semblance of logic and sanity around here. :lol

Yoritomo said:
Long post incoming. I've spent extensive time with both games. 150+ hours racing in Forza (maybe more I haven't checked my time lately) and I've got every gold license and every challenge in GT5 golded that's available for a level 20 driver. Both using the same wheel, a Fanatec PWTS with clubsports.

My impressions.

Both are great games with a very similar focus. I play lots of racing sims since it's the only genre that I'm good at. I just renewed my iRacing sub for another year. Prior to Formula 1 races I run the track the race will be on in rFactor with the FSONE 2009 mod. I run the tracks for 3-4 hours to get a good feel for what I'll be watching any given sunday. I've played most every sim out there. Ferrari Virtual Academy, RBR with the RSRBR (rallyesim) mod, NetKar Pro, Simbin games, NFS shift heavily modded. Hell I even play and love recent codemasters games although they're not really sims at all. It''s been years since doing so but I also used to have an old 240sx that I would run at a local club's track and down in College Station on a regular basis. I've since sold that car and am concentrating on my family and saving up for a bigger house, anyway, in a few years I'll pick up another FR car and go back to doing track days at the local track.

Anyone arguing that one game is SO MUCH BETTER than the other is a moron. They're both very similar games with similar design goals. Each game does certain things better.

GT5 has better handling with the wheel and primarily because Forza has an active steering assist that you cannot turn off. This is really frustrating because Forza does so many things better with the wheel. I can tell via FFB when the rear is stepping out or I can feel a FWD car has torque steer. I can't feel either of these things in GT5. I'll explain why even in the technical sense if Forza actually has better FFB why I just can't give it the nod over GT5 at the end of the post.

The vehicles in Forza feel flat, and there's something wrong with the suspension modeling, this feeling of flatness is exacerbated by replay cameras that are LOCKED on the car so you get less of an impression of visual body roll during replays. GT5 handles the feel of the suspension and weight transfer better.

Both games have issues. Incorrect specs, modeling, and weird things with some of Forza's cars, especially some of the DLC vehicles. GT5 seems to have the brake balance wrong on almost every car. The rear wheels should not lock up before the front wheels on almost any modern vehicle but that seems to be the case in GT5. Tire grip seems to go from unrealistic levels at the bottom end to a happy area around comfort soft and some of the sport tires to unrealistic levels at the top. The racing tires don't have the correct amount of falloff in the tire force curve. You can't have universal vehicle settings like turning Traction Control off as a preference for all your cars. GT5 comes up lacking if you're using an H-Gate shifter as well. They introduced some kludges to prevent power shifting so Clutch users don't have a speed advantage. Stupid decision.

Revisiting the Forza steering assist issue: On the full 900 degree setting I only have to counter steer about 60 degree for the car in game to go into FULL OPPOSITE LOCK. It's why the game feels so easy with a wheel. It also removes a lot of the tension since it sort of corrects slides for you. For instance in GT5 on the full nurburgring AMG intermediate challenge I dipped the rear wheels into the grass coming out of a corner. This sent the rear wheels wide and I had to counter steer, and I had to work for it. As in I hit full opposite lock at 450 degrees feathered the throttle and unwound the steering wheel so I didn't go into a tank slapper. My heart was pounding and I could hear blood rushing to my brain. I can't really get that feeling with forza because it holds my hand too much.

I think GT5 has higher highs and much lower lows than Forza 3. Forza 3 is a more consistent experience, and really excels at tuning, community features, controller interpolation, tire falloff and modeling for the entire range of tires, sound, some graphical aspects, and collision between vehicles (rubbing is racing). GT5 excels at vehicle dynamics, huge variety in the single player campaign, presentation (not counting some weird UI decisions), overall art direction, and the variety of experiences you can have(yeah I mentioned this twice, it's the best part of the game).
Click to expand...
 
C

CozMick

Banned
I'm actually sitting here laughing my ass off at this thread,

Did Polyphony Digital just troll the fucking shit out of the Forza fanboys with that undercarriage or what? :lol :lol

They actually believe PD had this convo?

"I tell you what lads that 60 million budget is getting quite thin, looks like we can't model the underside of that GTR"

"But Kazanuri-san, I have this hot wheels on my desk............."

"Are you thinking what i'm thinking Translator-san?"

:lol :lol :lol

This thread is epic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
 
X

Xun

Member
scandisk_ said:
he meant driving physics.
Click to expand...
I know, and I disagree.

Forza used to have superior handling compared to GT, but now GT5 just edges ahead ever so slightly in a few areas.
 
S

sdornan

Member
CozMick said:
I'm actually sitting here laughing my ass off at this thread,

Did Polyphony Digital just troll the fucking shit out of the Forza fanboys with that undercarriage or what? :lol :lol

They actually believe PD thought to themselves

"I tell you what lads that 60 million budget is getting quite thin, looks like we can't model the underside of that GTR"

"But Kazanuri-san, I have this hot wheels on my desk............."

"Are you thinking what i'm thinking Translator-san?"

:lol :lol :lol

This thread is epic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Click to expand...
So, all of a sudden it's definitely an easter egg/joke just because you decide it is?
 
A

a176

Banned
Doesn't anyone else prefer the roofcam views in other games?

The way the camera is fixed in the GT series and angles the track around the car is so god damn annoying, if not borderline nauseating. You get a lot more control when you see your car turning, imo, in addition to not getting projectile vomit on your television.
 
C

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
sdornan said:
So, all of a sudden it's definitely an easter egg/joke just because you decide it is?
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What the hell else would it be? Who would be stupid enough to not cover the racing model text with a simple gray square or something?

I mean, cmon. GT has always had this weird sense of humor. Go into GT Autos and tell me they don't. :lol
 
Ploid 3.0

Ploid 3.0

Member
CozMick said:
I'm actually sitting here laughing my ass off at this thread,

Did Polyphony Digital just troll the fucking shit out of the Forza fanboys with that undercarriage or what? :lol :lol

They actually believe PD had this convo?

"I tell you what lads that 60 million budget is getting quite thin, looks like we can't model the underside of that GTR"

"But Kazanuri-san, I have this hot wheels on my desk............."

"Are you thinking what i'm thinking Translator-san?"

:lol :lol :lol

This thread is epic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Click to expand...

I think it's more of something for fans than a troll trap, devs do this all the time. Why would they scan the bottom of a toy, and place it on a actual GT car in their code when they could take a picture of one of the cars they have propped up in the studio. Anyway the scan laughing couldn't contain itself in one thread.

This poster managed to make this the first reply of the "Most Improved Game Developer?" thread. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=24704258&postcount=2

What does the bottom of that model car that comes with the CE look like? Is it by the people that made the scanned car?
 
D

Diablohead

Member
Crisco said:
americapantsp1.gif


poor guy must have opened this thread....
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I fell for that damn maze scare before but nothing on this scale :lol :lol :lol

Just noticed the person hiding under the desk area has a mask on, he really must have shat himself
 
G

golem

Member
Someone actually took the time to flip over an Autoart model? :lol :lol :lol

At least it has realistically modeled wheels!
 
R

RSTEIN

Comics, serious business!
so... obvious question... no other cars have been found to have the autoart stamp yet? It makes hit highly likely this is an easter egg given that it's a high profile car (GTR).
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
Metalmurphy said:
But you're ok with Hello Kitty GTRs i'm sure...



He just put the proof in front of your eyes and you ignore it and post that?...
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where did i say it wasn't a joke?

i was basically saying 'that may explain the Auto ART thing but it doesn't explain the tyres does it?'

and where was his proof exactly anyway?
 
M

Metalmurphy

Member
plagiarize said:
where did i say it wasn't a joke?

i was basically saying 'that may explain the Auto ART thing but it doesn't explain the tyres does it?'

and where was his proof exactly anyway?
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No that's not what you were saying...

And the proof is in the fact that most of the modeling isn't actually from the model car but from the real thing, as shown by those pictures.
 
K

Kaako

Felium Defensor
Ploid 3.0 said:
So now people are disappointed that it could be a easter egg? What the crap guys? :lol
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Try to be a little more understanding man...I feel for the guys that would be disappointed by this. Having one less thing to cling to is probably not easy.
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
Metalmurphy said:
No that's not what you were saying...

And the proof is in the fact that most of the modeling isn't actually from the model car but from the real thing, as shown by those pictures.
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actually yes it was.

i know what the pictures are of anyway, and that proves that this was done on purpose as a joke how? does it suggest it might be a joke? sure does. which is why i didn't claim it wasn't.

but go ahead explain to me how you can infer what the intention of the devs were based on those pictures.

why did they only use part of the underside of the model car? why not the whole thing?

there is no proof eitherway. deal with it.
 
B

beast786

Member
plagiarize said:
actually yes it was.

i know what the pictures are of anyway, and that proves that this was done on purpose as a joke how? does it suggest it might be a joke? sure does. which is why i didn't claim it wasn't.

but go ahead explain to me how you can infer what the intention of the devs were based on those pictures.

why did they only use part of the underside of the model car? why not the whole thing?

there is no proof eitherway. deal with it.
Click to expand...


Since I have a lot of faith in you. What do you think.
 
Ploid 3.0

Ploid 3.0

Member
plagiarize said:
where did i say it wasn't a joke?

i was basically saying 'that may explain the Auto ART thing but it doesn't explain the tyres does it?'

and where was his proof exactly anyway?
Click to expand...

The tires thing is a priority issue. There's no reason to model the inside, things connecting tires, and so on. The reason the inside of the car is modeled is because you could spend a lot of time in there (cue SD joke). It would just be a waste of resources, like highly detailed trees. I'm actually watching my AI race through Nurburgring and the trees look great. I can focus on them when he slow down to notice that they are 2d but otherwise they look convincing enough. Use resources where it counts. Maybe next gen they can splooge more on tire insides and trees.
 
S

Stripper13

Member
Ploid 3.0 said:
The tires thing is a priority issue. There's no reason to model the inside, things connecting tires, and so on. The reason the inside of the car is modeled is because you could spend a lot of time in there (cue SD joke). It would just be a waste of resources, like highly detailed trees. I'm actually watching my AI race through Nurburgring and the trees look great. I can focus on them when he slow down to notice that they are 2d but otherwise they look convincing enough. Use resources where it counts. Maybe next gen they can splooge more on tire insides and trees.
Click to expand...

I'm hoping next gen we can get nearly 50% of the car roster with cockpits. I know I'm logic a dream - but that's the future of the racing genre for me!
 
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