Dreams-Visions
Member
if not, where would 3 or 4 years worth of work go, exactly?Jonsoncao said:
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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35
- Thread starter bishoptl
- Start date
Stripper13
Member
Jonsoncao said:
Yeah I definitely cannot see better sounds being patched or DLC in. Car models maybe, but best case scenario is a hand full of premiums over the next few years. And stable FPS is doubtful too, possible perhaps, bit slim chances.
Stripper13
Member
Double post
Stripper13 said:
Stable fps? Again with that crap...tearing...perhaps I could agree. But in the tests you speak of the average frame rate in the majority of them is like 57fps. I know you keep glossing over this, but an average (keyword being average) frame rate of 57fps is pretty damn stable. Especially for a game running at 1080p running the crap GT5 is.
Frame rate drops in big pile ups or collisions are to be expected in any and all racers. Pretty standard stuff. Problem with GT5 is not the frame rate but the screen tear.
plagiarize
Banned
average framerate can't tell you about stability.nib95 said:
i'm not suggesting that it isn't stabile, cause i haven't played it, and i recognise that 60 fps is the maximum frame rate, so it can't spend much time below 60fps, but with an average of 57fps you could be spending 2/3rds of the time at 60 and 1/3rd of the time at fifty. it could be flicking back and forth every second or so.
that wouldn't be stable at all (and i am not claiming it does this).
i'm just trying to say that you can't say an average framerate of X is stable. an unstable framerate is one that fluctuates wildly over time. taking an average makes it impossible to know how large the fluctuations are and how common they are.
plagiarize said:
I get where you're coming from, but if a game is supposed to run at 60fps and the average frame rate recorded is 57fps, I still personally think that it could be regarded as a very stable frame rate, as it means no matter what drops there were or were not, they weren't nearly enough to bring the average down much beyond the suggested ideal.
Even in your scenario of 2/3's 60fps, 1/3 50fps, that's still a pretty solid frame rate. As a drop to 50fps is still not much of a drop at all. Bigger spikes are more problematic, but still not to much of a degree if only during big pile ups and still not enough to drop the average below 57fps.
I'm guessing the frame rate average is less in rain/night tracks. But it's not so bad as you're driving a lot slower with rain gushing everywhere anyway.
NullPointer
Member
The premium/standard split in GT5 is really starting to get me down. I now know that I'd rather have 400+ well detailed models, with cockpits and full customization than 200+ ultra detailed models, seemingly picked at random, but mostly from Japanese manufacturers.
Let me give an example of the kinds of annoyances you'll run into.
Say a race event requires a classic Japanese car from 1979 or earlier. If you already have a bunch of cars in your garage there's no problem, as they provide a button that filters cars you own by the requirements of the selected race. Great. Nice.
But say you don't have one on hand, which is likely considering its a beginner event. If you're like me and restricting yourself only to premium cars (cockpit or no deal) than you're left to wander through each manufacturers storefront scouring the selection for the right car, load times included. In this particular case there are no matching cars, unless there's one hidden somewhere. And within the dealerships menu there is no way to sort by year, country, drivetrain, or anything for that matter. Its pure old school sequential menus. Its jarring and needlessly cumbersome.
After playing for a few days now, the only positive accolades I can award to GT5 are:
1. The actual driving experience. I love it to death.
2. The variety on offer in terms of circuit racing, Rally and Nascar, along with weather and lighting transitions. This variety is very limited within its own category though, so not many tracks have weather and lighting transitions, etc.
Everything else is either uninspired, too limited, rushed, or just plain aggravating. There are way too many menu screens and very little affordance for what a player is likely to want or to do from each screen.
Tearing and object pop-in is a regular occurrence in just about every level I've played, whether on a practice ride or filled with other cars. I wouldn't usually be one to bitch about 2D crowd models either if it wasn't so blatantly obvious in some tracks that its impossible not to stop and stare in awe. And the kicker: the AI is the absolute worst I've experienced in any racer to date. This has the biggest effect on the actual racing gameplay for me, since the other cars on the track aren't beholden to the same rules you're expected to follow. Expect to get rammed by any nearby cars. They actually make the drivers in NFS: Shift seem civil, and that's saying something.
I'll have to echo some familiar sentiments: What the hell took them five years of development time? Do they need to farm out some of their workload? Is Polyphony just not up to delivering a next gen game in any reasonable time frame?
All of this has me looking at what Turn 10 has managed to do in a new light.
Let me give an example of the kinds of annoyances you'll run into.
Say a race event requires a classic Japanese car from 1979 or earlier. If you already have a bunch of cars in your garage there's no problem, as they provide a button that filters cars you own by the requirements of the selected race. Great. Nice.
But say you don't have one on hand, which is likely considering its a beginner event. If you're like me and restricting yourself only to premium cars (cockpit or no deal) than you're left to wander through each manufacturers storefront scouring the selection for the right car, load times included. In this particular case there are no matching cars, unless there's one hidden somewhere. And within the dealerships menu there is no way to sort by year, country, drivetrain, or anything for that matter. Its pure old school sequential menus. Its jarring and needlessly cumbersome.
After playing for a few days now, the only positive accolades I can award to GT5 are:
1. The actual driving experience. I love it to death.
2. The variety on offer in terms of circuit racing, Rally and Nascar, along with weather and lighting transitions. This variety is very limited within its own category though, so not many tracks have weather and lighting transitions, etc.
Everything else is either uninspired, too limited, rushed, or just plain aggravating. There are way too many menu screens and very little affordance for what a player is likely to want or to do from each screen.
Tearing and object pop-in is a regular occurrence in just about every level I've played, whether on a practice ride or filled with other cars. I wouldn't usually be one to bitch about 2D crowd models either if it wasn't so blatantly obvious in some tracks that its impossible not to stop and stare in awe. And the kicker: the AI is the absolute worst I've experienced in any racer to date. This has the biggest effect on the actual racing gameplay for me, since the other cars on the track aren't beholden to the same rules you're expected to follow. Expect to get rammed by any nearby cars. They actually make the drivers in NFS: Shift seem civil, and that's saying something.
I'll have to echo some familiar sentiments: What the hell took them five years of development time? Do they need to farm out some of their workload? Is Polyphony just not up to delivering a next gen game in any reasonable time frame?
All of this has me looking at what Turn 10 has managed to do in a new light.
Maastricht
Member
I'm not going to pick a bone with a lot of that stuff, because some of it is just a matter of taste, but everytime someone bitches about the AI in GT5 and then praises the one in Forza, this is really, really beyond me. I don't know how many times the AI in Forza has completely taken me out of the race! In GT5 they seem to be well aware of my presence in a turn, which is where it is the most important (biggest potential for being taken out). Heck they even move over if I'm coming up on them and I'm going at much higher speed.
If the AI rams you, maybe it's time to think about your driving lines and braking points, and consider whether or not a human being would have been able to avoid hittnig you in that car.
If the AI rams you, maybe it's time to think about your driving lines and braking points, and consider whether or not a human being would have been able to avoid hittnig you in that car.
NullPointer
Member
You're not wrong here. I've run into particular cars in Forza 3 that have seemed to have a rabid blood feud with me (I'm looking at you Dodge Viper), but that was more the exception than the rule. In GT5 its safe to assume that other cars will treat you as if you weren't there for the most part. My driving style is to avoid other cars whenever I can - I don't load up a sim racer to play dirty or get an extra bump into a turn. Clean overtakes are the name of the game.Maastricht said:
Now maybe if I had better driving skill I could avoid some of the hassles I've experienced in GT5, thats true. But there is absolutely no reason to get bumped by cars behind me, on a straightaway without me slamming on the breaks and asking for it. I'm surprised this never happens for me in Forza considering the rear view mirror is usually worthless.
Haunted
Member
...into the next game? The same place the years of work after GT4 went? So...160 new premium cars for GT6.Dreams-Visions said:
This could've been easily avoided with the introduction of a "premium" mode which only uses the premium cars, for you and your opponents.NullPointer said:
NullPointer
Member
That would certainly help.Haunted said:
But they'd also have to change the race requirements to allow you the option of using more premium cars. It'd also be nice to get a decent premium car as a reward once in a while too.
At the end of the day though, the whole premium/standard split was just a bad idea, through and through. You can't even look at the standard cars as an extra "bonus", since the way the game is designed (at least the early game that I've played) the premium cars are the "bonus" and the standard cars are the meat and potatoes.
I did win one premium car so far. A German jeep from the 40s.
Fanatec's new top of the line wheel for PC/PS3/XBOX360 revealed.
http://www.911wheel.de/?q=node/4907
http://www.911wheel.de/?q=node/4907
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
So GameTrailers has done another one of those GT5 vs. Forza 3 videos and for a moment it gives a nice closeup of Zonda R's rear end in both games. Now, I know people have been saying that Forza's models are not really of the same quality as GT5's Premium cars and in some instances I would agree. The scale of certain elements sometimes just feels wrong in Forza. But in other cases, I would say that modeling in Forza is actually more accurate:
Fortinbras
Member
Maastricht said:
I'm at level 20 at the moment and I have to say that the GT5 AI is really annoying at times. The AI drives like you aren't there and bumps into your car without any consequences (for the AI). They're like trucks that push you out of their way. Things like that never happened to me in FM2 or FM3. It is true that the FM AI has it's own problems but the GT5 AI is really bad.
I've played GT since the first one and I really think the AI is one of the biggest problems of this series. Other than that GT5 is great.
Fortinbras said:
Funny, since that was my main complaint about the AI in F2/F3. That they could bully you with little to no negative effect to themselves but when you tried to do the same it usually ended in disaster. It's a similar thing in GT5 except perhaps a little bit more realistic in the sense that GT5's AI doesn't go completely serial killer mode like Forza's tends to quite often.
Real life race drivers do NOT go mad max like they do in Forza. GT's AI could certainly do with faster reactions to avoiding your rear though.
Callibretto
Member
NullPointer said:
I don't think 800 standard cars even equal 200 premium cars. premium cars have to be rebuild from scratch while most of those 800 standard cars is already done from GT4.
Fortinbras
Member
nib95 said:
As I said, never happened to me in Forza. I have no problems with aggressive AI like in Shift or other games. It's just sad that in a game like GT5 the AI seems to be unaware that there's another car on the track besides it's own.
Yesterday I lost the Allstars Championship after an hour of playtime because the AI somehow got really fast on R-246 and pushed me out of it's way. It was like my car didn't have any weight, the AI kept driving like on rails.
If something like this would happen in Forza, I could always use rewind. It's a nice feature. Not because I'm able to correct mistakes I made but because I'm able able to correct mistakes the AI is responsible for.
GT5 is even missing the retry race option in championships. I really don't have the time to play races over and over again, so the combination of all those things is major flaw in an otherwise fantastic game.
At least for me. Other than that, the game is great, as I said.
Yeah fuck that 250 euro price tag. I was never a big race fan, but i wanted to get in the genre by buying gt5 and a decent steering wheel to get the real racing experience. But i want a wheel that works for the 360(forza), ps3 and pc. Turns out this is the only wheel that supports all 3 but i am not gonna spend 300 euro on it. I believe we have Microsoft to thank for only supporting their own crappy wheel?erahk64 said:
vodka-bull
Member
Oh lordy, I'm so happy that I didn't order a wheel together with GT5 and waited some more days instead. Xbox compatible, yay!erahk64 said:
sadaiyappan
Member
Is it possible to drift through the Nurburgring in a Mercedes 300SL? I drifted through that ridiculous corner after the third hill in the first special race in GT5 Nurburging.
Metalmurphy
Member
REMEMBER CITADEL said:
That's the Forza 3 Photo mode models. GT5s only switches models on the Photo Travel mode, and not during a race Photo Mode. So you're not really seeing the full GT5 model.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
chrislowe said:
The real life photo was marked as the 2009 model.
phosphor112
Banned
GT's Zonda R looks funny in the back, I don't think how that could have been a modeling error because the real life version is clearly different. Maybe a model glitch? =S Someone take a picture of that beast in photomode.
plagiarize
Banned
real life race drivers take each other out regularly, usually by accident but not always.nib95 said:
i'm not saying the AI is doing it on purpose all the time in any game, but it is absolutely a part of the professional sport.
it probably happens too much, but i can't think of many F1 events where no one got taken out.
You managed to get an accurate graphics quality/average frame-rate captured in the same pic. Good job!CozMick said:Back to business.
Count them GAF, COUNT THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:lol
Missing 1 player because he quit
nib95 said:
GT5 doesn't have an average frame-rate of 57fps. Some tests averaged much less. For a first party Sony developer the game is poorly optimized.
Metalmurphy
Member
Why so butthurt?Mastperf said:
That pic was posted for the people saying that GT5 did not support 16 cars per race.
brotkasten
Member
Metalmurphy said:
What the fuck?
Metalmurphy
Member
brotkasten said:
Yep, That includes some reviews as well.
Forsete
Member
Metalmurphy said:
How can she slap?
Sirrisly, if a game does not support 16 cppt* when at level zero (Ay-spek), I think its safe to say the games does not support it AT ALL.
-Journalist
*cars-per-track
Yoritomo said:
Spoken like a true GT5-virgin?
Hey you shitty standard cars, get out of my game! It does not matter if you are still fun to drive, just get the hell out!
I'm just having fun.It's pretty much the purpose of the thread after all. I absolutely hate racing games so I really don't care who wins or loses. I do wish I liked them though since they're the games that get the closest to "real" visually. Have you read some of the ridiculous comparisons and reviews from people on both games in this thread?:lol It's mainly 1 poster trying to outjackass the other.Metalmurphy said:
I do think Polyphony dropped the ball quite a bit ,though. Sony's first parties are incredible at optimization so it's pretty obvious with GT5.
phosphor112
Banned
I'm guessing you 100% Forza then?Yoritomo said:
Metalmurphy
Member
Yoritomo said:
Considering you have been playing GT5 alot you should have noticed by now that the number of cars don't appear to have anything to do with the framedrops in GT5. I've had plenty of stable races with lots of cars, and some unstable ones with fewer cars. Premium or standards, online and off.
phosphor112
Banned
*cough* For the longest time, Crysis ran at like.. 20fps, but still was being crowned "graphics king."Trickster said:
Just saying...
Forsete
Member
Yoritomo said:
Congrats. Game is not that easy for me, especially golding the licenses.
I'm not terribly obsessed with grabbing everything gold unless its a A-spec race.
Cant say I'm that bothered by the standard cars. I don't agree with the loonies that would rather have 200 cars instead of 1031. The standard cars are just as fun as the premium when driving, thanks to the new physics engine (probably the best racing engine that I have ever experienced), and you hardly notice the fewer details when going around the track.
Trickster said:
They should be allowed more leniency in my opinion yes.
GT5 clearly pushes the PS3 more than Forza 3 pushes the 360.
During a race in GT5 there can be 16 premium cars, day/night cycle, dynamic weather, deformation and all running @ 1280x1080.
During a race in Forza 3 there is 8 cars, and car damage running @ 1280x720.