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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35

Yoritomo

Member
Forsete said:
Congrats. Game is not that easy for me, especially golding the licenses.
I'm not terribly obsessed with grabbing everything gold unless its a A-spec race.

Cant say I'm that bothered by the standard cars. I don't agree with the loonies that would rather have 200 cars instead of 1031. The standard cars are just as fun as the premium when driving, thanks to the new physics engine (probably the best racing engine that I have ever experienced), and you hardly notice the fewer details when going around the track.

The single player is much more varied than Forza. I'll probably sink more hours into it than F3.

Metalmurphy said:
Considering you have been playing GT5 alot you should have noticed by now that the number of cars don't appear to have anything to do with the framedrops in GT5. I've had plenty of stable races with lots of cars, and some unstable ones with fewer cars. Premium or standards, online and off.

Alpha channel effects seem to kill the framerate the most. Snow, dirt, and mist from rain races really hammer it.

I honestly have nothing against GT5 at all and in many ways prefer it to Forza 3 (damn you forced steering assist in forza).

It'd be fun if this thread were serious with people taking nuanced views of each game but it's basically a bunch of fanboy sniping. I do find it hilarious that anyone believes any given game to be sacrosanct and above reproach just because of it's name or legacy.
 

Mastperf

Member
phosphor112 said:
*cough* For the longest time, Crysis ran at like.. 20fps, but still was being crowned "graphics king."

Just saying...
Crysis was (and still is) light years ahead of most games visually. GT5 is better in some ways and worse in others compared to the competition.
 
Mastperf said:
Crysis was (and still is) light years ahead of most games visually. GT5 is better in some ways and worse in others compared to the competition.
Yeah, the tracks might not be great in GT5, but the game is still doing self shadowing, 16 high LOD cars (they don't even tint out the interiors for the premium models), day night cycles, dynamic weather, shadow casting and particle illumination. I'm not sure, but I don't recall even a 30 fps racing game on console does that.
 

Stallion Free

Cock Encumbered
phosphor112 said:
*cough* For the longest time, Crysis ran at like.. 20fps, but still was being crowned "graphics king."

Just saying...
Crysis wasn't a closed platform where everyone had the same performance issues so speak for yourself bro.
 
Stallion Free said:
Crysis wasn't a closed platform where everyone had the same performance issues so speak for yourself bro.

Erm.. even the top end machines had trouble running the game greater than 30fps. That's a fact. That certainly isn't true anymore, hell, my laptop can run the game at max, but the game still ran sub 30 fps when it came out.

Bro.
 

Mastperf

Member
phosphor112 said:
Yeah, the tracks might not be great in GT5, but the game is still doing self shadowing, 16 high LOD cars (they don't even tint out the interiors for the premium models), day night cycles, dynamic weather, shadow casting and particle illumination. I'm not sure, but I don't recall even a 30 fps racing game on console does that.
Yeah, it's doing some impressive things technically. The problem is that it's doing too much for the PS3. Balance is key and Polyphony knows this as well as anyone.
 

jett

D-Member
phosphor112 said:
Erm.. even the top end machines had trouble running the game greater than 30fps. That's a fact. That certainly isn't true anymore, hell, my laptop can run the game at max, but the game still ran sub 30 fps when it came out.

Bro.

The phosphorus bro knows what he's talking about.
 

Shaneus

Member
CozMick said:
Back to business.

N%C3%BCrburgring%20Type%20V.jpg


Count them GAF, COUNT THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:lol

Missing 1 player because he quit :p
Actual undoctored image:
531qg5.png
 

Stallion Free

Cock Encumbered
phosphor112 said:
Erm.. even the top end machines had trouble running the game greater than 30fps. That's a fact. That certainly isn't true anymore, hell, my laptop can run the game at max, but the game still ran sub 30 fps when it came out.

Bro.
:lol :lol :lol

Do you not realize on PC there are settings? Of course Crysis maxed brought PC's to their knees. There are still things I can do settings-wise to the game that can bring modern hardware too it's knees. But if you were willing to tweak settings, it was't hard to get over 30 fps and it still looked better than every game that year.
 

jett

D-Member
jet1911 said:

That is certainly running mostly on medium settings, looks pretty awful. Also notice that it's an enclosed, tight room. And 720p on a PC game? Fucking dirty, unwashed, way-beneath-my-standards-resolution.

This post paints a more appropriate picture:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8627313&postcount=146

kitch9 said:
Lock the framerate..........Fugedabowtit......

I'm running Q6600@3.0ghz, 4GBRam, 8800GT, X-fi with mostly V High settings, apart from Shaders, Shadows, Objects and Textures which are high. Res: 1360x768

R_motionblur 1 is used to force full screen motionblur on to smooth things out.

Getting a reasonable 30, which feels really smooth when it is actually 30, but dips to the low 20's is frequent, although it still feels playable.

Just got past the levels with the tanks, and my god it was the most incredible looking thing I've ever seen. The explosion and smoke effects are unbelievable.

I'm pretty sure that hardware was top of the line back then, or near.
 
Stallion Free said:
:lol :lol :lol

Do you not realize on PC there are settings? Of course Crysis maxed brought PC's to their knees. There are still things I can do settings-wise to the game that can bring modern hardware too it's knees. But if you were willing to tweak settings, it was't hard to get over 30 fps and it still looked better than every game that year.
Errm... yeah? Considering I've been PC gaming long before I had a turbo button on my case, but the "ideal" settings that the developer had created themselves brought PC's "to their knees." For consistencies sake though, lets just leave out mods. For example, STALKER without the Complete 2009 mod is pretty broken.

And FYI, I mod almost all my PC games. Like I have the "Realism" mod on my Crysis install.. get's better graphics than max settings and runs better as well. In the end, those settings weren't made by the developer, but by a 3rd party team.

jet1911 said:

Nice empty room.
 

jet1911

Member
jett said:
That is certainly running mostly on medium settings, looks pretty awful. Also notice that it's an enclosed, tight room. And 720p on a PC game? Fucking dirty, unwashed, way-beneath-my-standards-resolution.

This post paints a more appropriate picture:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8627313&postcount=146



I'm pretty sure that hardware was top of the line back then, or near.

Still better than a lot of console games! And it was three years ago. :p
 
jet1911 said:
Still better than a lot of console games! And it was three years ago. :p
Why wouldn't it be better than console games?
4+gb VS 512mb
1gb dedicated vram VS ...wait... that stuff up there ^^^
HDD vs Optical (though some require HDD as well)

I love my PC and I'll take it over any console, but comparison between the two platforms is simply like an MMA fighter beating on a gimp.
 

Trickster

Member
CozMick said:
They should be allowed more leniency in my opinion yes.

GT5 clearly pushes the PS3 more than Forza 3 pushes the 360.

During a race in GT5 there can be 16 premium cars, day/night cycle, dynamic weather, deformation and all running @ 1280x1080.

During a race in Forza 3 there is 8 cars, and car damage running @ 1280x720.


I'll agree that you could argue that for all the stuff PD decided to put on screen, they deserve a bit of leniency. But not go as far as to say "They put much more on screen than another game. So it's ok to have a ton of screen tearing and a framerate that's often times not even close to 60 fps".
 

saladine1

Junior Member
Winds are blowing.
A storm is brewing.
30.6 days from 24.2 there will be some rain drops forming.
The 4th following the 3rd shall be seen through the dark clouds.
 

gillty

Banned
phosphor112 said:
*cough* For the longest time, Crysis ran at like.. 20fps, but still was being crowned "graphics king."

Just saying...

phosphor112 said:
Erm.. even the top end machines had trouble running the game greater than 30fps. That's a fact. That certainly isn't true anymore, hell, my laptop can run the game at max, but the game still ran sub 30 fps when it came out.

Bro.
Holy shit...

The PS3 is a closed platform with specific specs and hardware that can be targeted for very specific optimization, GT5 in its current state will NEVER run perfectly at 60FPS (its a racing game) and is not the best looking game on the platform.

The PC is an open platform with a variety of different standards and specs on wildly different hardware that can be upgraded constantly, vanilla 1.0 Crysis could run perfectly on machines with a variety of options customized in 2007 as well as maxed out on hardware very soon after. Crysis can still be used as one of the best looking games on an open platform.

Why you even brought up Crysis is beyond me. Resume thread gaf.
 

-viper-

Banned
Yoritomo said:
All gold licenses, every special challenge but the last AMG school gold (not level 24 yet). Games easy, try harder bro.
Forza 3 is much easier than GT5 for me. I'm struggling in the challenges of GT5 where as I can win just about every race on hard mode.
 
Pop Up , I haven't seen it in race games like this for a long time , that and the god awe full shadows were the first negative things I noticed and they are in your face !

I like the physics though and still enjoy the game very much , I hope they bring a patch for the PS1 shadows cause that shit is really absurd :lol
 

duk

Banned
CozMick said:
They should be allowed more leniency in my opinion yes.

GT5 clearly pushes the PS3 more than Forza 3 pushes the 360.

During a race in GT5 there can be 16 premium cars, day/night cycle, dynamic weather, deformation and all running @ 1280x1080 at sub 60fps with screen tearing and texture popin

During a race in Forza 3 there is 8 cars, and car damage running @ 1280x720 at rock solid 60fps, no screen tearing and better AI

Stop being an appologist.

If GT5 clearing pushes PS3 so much more then IS GT5 is all we can really expect? :(
 
NullPointer said:
:lol

I'd rather a game supports 8 players with no framerate drops, tearing or pop-in, than 16 players with all of the above.

Trading 16 players with 8 I could live with. Every thing else? Hell no.

saladine1 said:
Winds are blowing.
A storm is brewing.
30.6 days from 24.2 there will be some rain drops forming.
The 4th following the 3rd shall be seen through the dark clouds.
You're not amar, and everyone can make the predition that Forza 4 will have weather.


That's what you meant right?
 

beast786

Member
NullPointer said:
:lol

I'd rather a game supports 8 players with no framerate drops, tearing or pop-in, than 16 players with all of the above.


So forza has no screan tearing and locked in at 60fps?

Impressive.
 
beast786 said:
So forza has no screan tearing and locked in at 60fps?

Impressive.
It is impressive. If Forza 3 has any tearing or framerate drops I've never seen them in my time playing. One thing it has in spades is a smooth and consistent presentation.
 

AZ Greg

Member
CozMick said:
They should be allowed more leniency in my opinion yes.

GT5 clearly pushes the PS3 more than Forza 3 pushes the 360.

During a race in GT5 there can be 16 premium cars, day/night cycle, dynamic weather, deformation and all running @ 1280x1080.

During a race in Forza 3 there is 8 cars, and car damage running @ 1280x720.

So I check this thread for the first time in a week and people are still making excuses for the technical issues?! Leniency is fine, but only when it leads to acceptable sacrifices. Framerate issues aren't one of those sacrifices, especially for a sim racer (At least this is what Kaz and GT fans claimed in the past). An eyesore, like tearing, that in some cases can make the game unplayable for certain people with motion sickness issues, is not one of these acceptable sacrifices. More reasonable sacrifices/areas to give leniency include scaling the resolution back to 1280x720, reducing car count from 16 to 8, scaling weather back (Yes, I know the latter two can be beneficial to gameplay), etc... Those sacrifices still allow for great picture quality without the ugly, distracting, and potentially detrimental effects caused by the framerate and tearing issues. And before anyone says, "Well you're just saying those sacrifices are acceptable because that's what Forza went with", I simply believe those are the smart sacrifices, it has nothing to do with the developers or the franchise that made that decision.

Another thing I'm curious about is how something like this can be said, "GT5 clearly pushes the PS3 more than Forza 3 pushes the 360." Do you come to this conclusion simply because GT5's highs are better than Forza 3's? Because I don't see the correlation between that and pushing one system more than another. Or are you saying it because GT5 is pushing more cars, a higher resolution, weather, etc...? Because taking into account some of GT5's technical issues makes that (and any graphical comparison, really) comparison sorta "apples and oranges." I mean, what if the Forza team was told that they could have an inconsistent framerate, tearing, 80% of their cars being upscaled Forza 1 cars, less track details, bad shadows, or w/e other graphical flaws that GT5 has. T10 might have been able to do "1080p", 16 cars, weather, or higher quality ("premium") cars.
 
AZ Greg said:
So I check this thread for the first time in a week and people are still making excuses for the technical issues?! Leniency is fine, but only when it leads to acceptable sacrifices. Framerate issues aren't one of those sacrifices, especially for a sim racer (At least this is what Kaz and GT fans claimed in the past). An eyesore, like tearing, that in some cases can make the game unplayable for certain people with motion sickness issues, is not one of these acceptable sacrifices. More reasonable sacrifices/areas to give leniency include scaling the resolution back to 1280x720, reducing car count from 16 to 8, scaling weather back (Yes, I know the latter two can be beneficial to gameplay), etc... Those sacrifices still allow for great picture quality without the ugly, distracting, and potentially detrimental effects caused by the framerate and tearing issues. And before anyone says, "Well you're just saying those sacrifices are acceptable because that's what Forza went with", I simply believe those are the smart sacrifices, it has nothing to do with the developers or the franchise that made that decision.

Another thing I'm curious about is how something like this can be said, "GT5 clearly pushes the PS3 more than Forza 3 pushes the 360." Do you come to this conclusion simply because GT5's highs are better than Forza 3's? Because I don't see the correlation between that and pushing one system more than another. Or are you saying it because GT5 is pushing more cars, a higher resolution, weather, etc...? Because taking into account some of GT5's technical issues makes that (and any graphical comparison, really) comparison sorta "apples and oranges." I mean, what if the Forza team was told that they could have an inconsistent framerate, tearing, 80% of their cars being upscaled Forza 1 cars, less track details, bad shadows, or w/e other graphical flaws that GT5 has. T10 might have been able to do "1080p", 16 cars, weather, or higher quality ("premium") cars.

Couldn't disagree with you more. I'd rather see a hit on textures or a more aggressive dynamic LOD being implemented then loosing weather and 16 cars. I gotta ask, have you actually played GT5? While I understand tearing can be a pain for some people (like EvilLore), all the other "inconsistencies" you mentioned were never ever "distracting".
 

AZ Greg

Member
Metalmurphy said:
Couldn't disagree with you more. I'd rather see a hit on textures or a more aggressive dynamic LOD being implemented then loosing weather and 16 cars. I gotta ask, have you actually played GT5? While I understand tearing can be a pain for some people (like EvilLore), all the other "inconsistencies" you mentioned were never ever "distracting".

Well scaling back cars on screen, weather, and resolution were just suggestions as doing whatever it takes to eliminate framerate inconsistencies or tearing is vital IMO. If they could be corrected with your suggestions then that works too, though I think texture downgrades would just fuel this thread even more! :lol

I think you're mixing and matching my post. The only issues that I mentioned as distracting were the framerate inconsistencies and the tearing. Those issues being distracting are unarguable IMO, unless you're one of the few people who claim those issues don't bother you or aren't distracting. The other inconsistencies that I mentioned were simply in response to the "X" is pushing "Y" console more and had nothing to do with being distracting.

And no, like I've said in here before, I haven't played GT5. Which is why my complaining consists of only talking about the unarguable graphical issues and why I haven't said anything related to gameplay. Haven't played Forza 3 either, btw. I have played the demos for both though, if you count GT5:p as one. :p Only thing that has kept me posting in this thread is the hypocrisy that has taken place from last generation to this generation and even pre-GT5 release to post-GT5 release. I honestly thought people were hyped for a GT game that would have the typical polish of a PD game but utilize the power of the PS3/this generation. But then I come to this thread expecting disappointment (with regards to visuals/performance) only to read excuses because all that matters is it pulling ahead of the competition by whatever way people want to measure. It's equivalent to Nintendo fans being satisfied if Mario Galaxy was a mess but was at least better than Sonic 2006.
 

CozMick

Banned
Would you guys rather have your game looking like Wolfenstein 3D @ 50-60fps with v-sync turned on

or

Would you rather have your game looking like Crysis @ 45-60fps with v-sync turned off occasionally?


Ding, Ding! we have a winner ladies and gentlemen.

Gran Turismo 5

:lol
 

Trickster

Member
CozMick said:
Would you guys rather have your game looking like Wolfenstein 3D @ 50-60fps with v-sync turned on

or

Would you rather have your game looking like Crysis @ 45-60fps with v-sync turned off occasionally?


Ding, Ding! we have a winner ladies and gentlemen.

Gran Turismo 5

:lol

Good bait sir, good bait. I will not bite though :lol
 

Shaneus

Member
CozMick said:
Would you guys rather have your game looking like Wolfenstein 3D @ 50-60fps with v-sync turned on

or

Would you rather have your game looking like Crysis @ 45-60fps with v-sync turned off occasionally?


Ding, Ding! we have a winner ladies and gentlemen.

Gran Turismo 5

:lol
Depends... for the latter, do most of the enemies look like characters from Space Invaders except for one or two that look like they're from Crysis? Can you actually hurt any of the characters in the latter game or just bump into them? :lol
 
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