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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35

J

jett

D-Member
they look really good to me too.. but Gameswire seems to think GT5P looks better (the car models)..
Click to expand...


The car models look better because they are better.

edit: lulz at that gameswire website, it's borderline dead now
 
H

Hanmik

Member
jett said:
The car models look better because they are better.
Click to expand...

how can that be..? it´s pictures from a demo that costs money, that is over a year old..? :D
this just shows that PD are car porn stars
 
Bitmap Frogs

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Zaptruder said:
So watching the Forza collision physics, I'm thinking... why are people so fussed over one teams implementation versus the other?

They're both very incomplete, and even though they're both moving in the right direction, they're no Burnout Paradise.

The irony is that Burnout Paradise doesn't do physics; it does canned animations. The crashes are precomputed, and the same damage played out if the damage input is similar enough. Yet it still has the best looking crashes around, because it gets 90% of what we expect from a crash (i.e. massive crushing, glass shattering, wheels tearing off, et al).

No matter how accurate the spinning and flipping of a chassis is, if those elements aren't there, it's all going to look very fake/incomplete to us.

So I dunno where the Forza guys get off stroking their cocks over this kinda issue like its a be all and end all.

My take: Good that they're pushing it in this direction... but they (both Turn10 and PD) need to sort out with the licensing guys how to get 'full blown'* damage in there... even if it means adding a mode with only some of the cars (i.e. with the manufacuters that allow full blown damage) available.

*apperance wise... the hardware probably isn't there to do everything these games do and compute accurate full blown physics based destruction.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I couldn't give a damn.

The reason I like damage in racing games it's because it brings back the same thrill as 'old skool games where one mistake meant it was back to the start of the level. For all I care they wouldn't even need to model/show the damage, all I want is to know if I fuck up and understeer towards the rail on the next corner it's game over.
 
Slayer-33

Slayer-33

Liverpool-2
akachan ningen said:
I suppose those gameswire comparisons are also unfair to FM3? They look pretty good to me.

comp.jpg
Click to expand...


probably the best nonsbullshot ingame comparison so far.

If GTP is any indication to what GT5 might look like that is... Car/Env - Env/Car other then that I don't see any mindblowing differences or anything to fuss about.

And yes both are technically demo's although one is a much older one.
 
Yoboman

Yoboman

Member
Zaptruder said:
So watching the Forza collision physics, I'm thinking... why are people so fussed over one teams implementation versus the other?

They're both very incomplete, and even though they're both moving in the right direction, they're no Burnout Paradise.

The irony is that Burnout Paradise doesn't do physics; it does canned animations. The crashes are precomputed, and the same damage played out if the damage input is similar enough. Yet it still has the best looking crashes around, because it gets 90% of what we expect from a crash (i.e. massive crushing, glass shattering, wheels tearing off, et al).

No matter how accurate the spinning and flipping of a chassis is, if those elements aren't there, it's all going to look very fake/incomplete to us.

So I dunno where the Forza guys get off stroking their cocks over this kinda issue like its a be all and end all.

My take: Good that they're pushing it in this direction... but they (both Turn10 and PD) need to sort out with the licensing guys how to get 'full blown'* damage in there... even if it means adding a mode with only some of the cars (i.e. with the manufacuters that allow full blown damage) available.

*apperance wise... the hardware probably isn't there to do everything these games do and compute accurate full blown physics based destruction.
Click to expand...
So why can't they do it Burnout style?

I guess it'd be a lot of work with so many cars
 
T

thuway

Member
Slayer-33 said:
probably the best nonsbullshot ingame comparison so far.

If GTP is any indication to what GT5 might look like that is... Car/Env - Env/Car other then that I don't see any mindblowing differences or anything to fuss about.
Click to expand...

Our eyes must be completely different than. I see a fuck of a difference. In my eyes, Prologue looks alot better, and I'm willing to bet you by the time the final GT5 is released, it will be a pretty big step up in terms of graphics. Just read about the trailer shown at TGS.

The reality is though, Forza Motorstport 3 is out now. It looks great, it plays great, it has community features to make a GT only person green with envy. Guess whose going to get my sale this year?
 
C

cgcg

Member
Looking at the comparison shots there're quite bit more jaggies on the Forza 3 shots. I do see screen tearing in one of the GT shots though ;) but that's an old build.

Just to clarify. I was talking about those shots on gameswire.
 
M

MoeB

Member
Alright. Judging from the screenshot comparisons between Forza3 and GT5 it finally makes sense why GT5 took as long as it did it to develop. For now, GT5 is on my to buy list.
 
J

jett

D-Member
Yoboman said:
So why can't they do it Burnout style?

I guess it'd be a lot of work with so many cars
Click to expand...

Car manufacturers aren't interested in showcasing the many ways you can get mauled and mutilated in their products, either. :p
 
Slayer-33

Slayer-33

Liverpool-2
cgcg said:
Looking at the comparison shots there're quite bit more jaggies on the Forza 3 shots. I do see screen tearing in one of the GT shots though ;) but that's an old build.
Click to expand...



What makes me wonder is if the FM3 demo has AA off, I wonder if it's the E3 demo build.


jett said:
Car manufacturers aren't interested in showcasing the many ways you can get mauled and mutilated in their products, either. :p
Click to expand...


:lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o_ffEHUQ_0


see it if you haven't, it's better than that white car rolling over,


not that manufacturers would allow burnout-esque crashes if it was technically possible lol...


That roll over vid is what makes me think the FM3 demo build is old, the undercarriage is not there and as far as I know all cars have undercarriage in FM3..
 
S

skybaby

Member
Zaptruder said:
So watching the Forza collision physics, I'm thinking... why are people so fussed over one teams implementation versus the other?

They're both very incomplete, and even though they're both moving in the right direction, they're no Burnout Paradise.

The irony is that Burnout Paradise doesn't do physics; it does canned animations. The crashes are precomputed, and the same damage played out if the damage input is similar enough. Yet it still has the best looking crashes around, because it gets 90% of what we expect from a crash (i.e. massive crushing, glass shattering, wheels tearing off, et al).

No matter how accurate the spinning and flipping of a chassis is, if those elements aren't there, it's all going to look very fake/incomplete to us.

So I dunno where the Forza guys get off stroking their cocks over this kinda issue like its a be all and end all.

My take: Good that they're pushing it in this direction... but they (both Turn10 and PD) need to sort out with the licensing guys how to get 'full blown'* damage in there... even if it means adding a mode with only some of the cars (i.e. with the manufacuters that allow full blown damage) available.

*apperance wise... the hardware probably isn't there to do everything these games do and compute accurate full blown physics based destruction.
Click to expand...
The difference is: in Forza, you won't go into a corner at 200mph, understeer into the rail on the outside, lose 10mph and keep going as if nothing happened.
 
C

Cheeto

Member
cgcg said:
Looking at the comparison shots there're quite bit more jaggies on the Forza 3 shots. I do see screen tearing in one of the GT shots though ;) but that's an old build.
Click to expand...
I see neither jaggies nor tearing in that shot...
 
Z

Zaptruder

Banned
skybaby said:
The difference is: in Forza, you won't go into a corner at 200mph, understeer into the rail on the outside, lose 10mph and keep going as if nothing happened.
Click to expand...

Look... at 200mph, if you're not race over, then it's all a bit of a wash.

If you keep going losing a bit of speed, or if you spin out spectacular and use the rewind button, it's all a bit of the same isn't it?


Neither implementation is going to put that driving fear into you. (not that a video game can do that... but it can at least do a facsimile of it by creating a race ending crash).
 
Mohonky

Mohonky

Member
Yoboman said:
GT5 isn't about driving them, how?

I'd say that's exactly what it is about. Moreso than Forza. If you want to talking about racing them, or customising them or crashing them, you might have something.
Click to expand...

Poor collision physics, brain dead AI and bumper car physics don't make for 'The Real Life Driving Simulator.'

The game is drop dead gorgeous, but Forza 3 is a good looking game too (better than the screen grabs would suggest) and the driving model is very well done (try going round a corner in the GT3 RSR and having it bottom out).

GT is definitely a great driving game but Forza 3 has the better driving model and package (collisions, road conditions, intelligent AI etc). In that department, Forza 3 continues to move forward in leaps in bounds, GT while moving forward visually doesn't differentiate itself that greatly from previous iterations.

Play the two then make the comparison.
 
Mohonky

Mohonky

Member
Zaptruder said:
Look... at 200mph, if you're not race over, then it's all a bit of a wash.
Click to expand...

Turn Forza 3 onto sim and hit a wall, you don't need to be doing 200mph to write the car off completely. I've already written the car off to the point I couldn't engage any gears and just rolled backward down a hill......
 
S

skybaby

Member
Zaptruder said:
Look... at 200mph, if you're not race over, then it's all a bit of a wash.

If you keep going losing a bit of speed, or if you spin out spectacular and use the rewind button, it's all a bit of the same isn't it?


Neither implementation is going to put that driving fear into you. (not that a video game can do that... but it can at least do a facsimile of it by creating a race ending crash).
Click to expand...
The difference is, you can choose to rewind or not ;)
 
M

MoeB

Member
Mohonky said:
Poor collision physics, brain dead AI and bumper car physics don't make for 'The Real Life Driving Simulator.'

The game is drop dead gorgeous, but Forza 3 is a good looking game too (better than the screen grabs would suggest) and the driving model is very well done (try going round a corner in the GT3 RSR and having it bottom out).

GT is definitely a great driving game but Forza 3 has the better driving model and package (collisions, road conditions, intelligent AI etc). In that department, Forza 3 continues to move forward in leaps in bounds, GT while moving forward visually doesn't differentiate itself that greatly from previous iterations.

Play the two then make the comparison.
Click to expand...
Have you playEd F3 and GT5?
 
Z

Zaptruder

Banned
skybaby said:
The difference is, you can choose to rewind or not ;)
Click to expand...

The difference is you can restart the race after a collision or not.


The player can always exercise self control as a work around.


Point remains, they're both a bit shit, and less than ideal, even if one is better than the other, it's not a feature that sets it heads and shoulders above its competition.

Things like access to G25/27 support and head tracking are just as valid counterpoints to that sort of 'it's a wash' advantage.
 
Mohonky

Mohonky

Member
MoeB said:
Have you playEd F3 and GT5?
Click to expand...

I've played both GT5P and Forza 3, as I mentioned, my comments are based on having played both of these. I'm obviously unable to comment on retail releases of either of these games and so I haven't made comments on features that may or may not be present or changes that may effect handling and driving model.

Though thats at least better than many of the muppets here ragging out on each title based on screen grabs or bullshots alone.
 
Z

Zabka

Member
Cheeto said:
comp.jpg


This shot? Please circle the jaggies and tearing please.
Click to expand...
There's jaggies all over the edges of the windshield and the rear view mirror, but they're muddied up by some nasty jpg compression.
 
Slayer-33

Slayer-33

Liverpool-2
T

thuway

Member
Are we all forgetting GT5 is being delayed till next year? Giving them a 6 month + window to fine tune physics, improve graphics, and add in popular competitive features (rewind)?

Like I said though, 6 month plus wait. Oh well.
 
R

rollingstart

Banned
Only thing I have to add is that both GT5p and Forza 3 have a big drop in quality from bullshots to in-game graphics. and did every car in GT5p have rear windows modeled? Forza 3 has the PGR thing where side and rear views go outside the car. It's nothing major.
 
T

TheRagnCajun

Member
GT5 seems to have better looking cars...Forza seems to have better looking environments?

why did I just post in this thread? I need help...
 
J

jett

D-Member
SuperÑ said:
Did you really expect to be made with +10k polygons? Don't be dumb.
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Why not? The moutains in GT5P's Eiger course are all in 3D. All I've read is how superior the courses are in Forza 3.
 
N

[Nintex]

Member
So I just played some Forza 3, now I'll hop into a time machine to see how Gran Turismo 5 plays. Oh, wait the time machine hasn't been invented yet but it will probably be ready before PD finishes Gran Turismo 5.
 
S

skybaby

Member
[Nintex] said:
So I just played some Forza 3, now I'll hop into a time machine to see how Gran Turismo 5 plays. Oh, wait the time machine hasn't been invented yet but it will probably be ready before PD finishes Gran Turismo 5.
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:lol
 
J

jakonovski

Member
[Nintex] said:
So I just played some Forza 3, now I'll hop into a time machine to see how Gran Turismo 5 plays. Oh, wait the time machine hasn't been invented yet but it will probably be ready before PD finishes Gran Turismo 5.
Click to expand...

I hear GT5 is going to be bundled with Duke Nukem Forever.
 
S

SuperÑ

OptionN, ShiftN
jett said:
Why not? The moutains in GT5P's Eiger course are all in 3D. All I've read is how superior the courses are in Forza 3.
Click to expand...

No, they are not. Some are 3D and the furthest ones just a bitmap. Look at top right

That's a GTHD screenshot, but i dont think there is any difference with GT5p.
 
skyfinch

skyfinch

Member
jett said:
Why not? The moutains in GT5P's Eiger course are all in 3D. All I've read is how superior the courses are in Forza 3.
Click to expand...


My god, that forza track has mountains, rocks, hills everywhere and you're complain about the one mountain that are so far in the distance that you'll never even get close to.
 
J

jakonovski

Member
skyfinch said:
My god, that forza track has mountains, rocks, hills everywhere and you're complain about the one mountain that are so far in the distance that you'll never even get close to.
Click to expand...

This is not about enjoying one's game, this is about trying to ruin others' enjoyment of their game.
 
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