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[Slayer-33]

If a game like, say... Demon Souls got rewind, a lot of people would abandon it without a second thought.

Some gamers don't want these features that would lessen the risk in video games. Racing, especially, is all about the full lap performance. You can rewind one corner, but the road leading up to it affects how you take that corner. No professional racers only practice one corner of a race track.

You are wrong, practicing a corner can and will help your overall laptimes.

Practice the corner that you have a hell of a time with til you get it right.

The demon souls bit doesn't make sense, rewind is an excellent feature to have in a racing game for the reason I mentioned. On a action/strategy game you don't really need it since it'll lessen the experience a ton because of the issue of knowing AI patterns. In a racing game your opponent is the track itself and your skill for the most part. You master it (track) and you'll be ahead of the pack eventually.

 

[Xanadu]

That's why I said I'd tolerate it in a limited capacity, ie: if classic motorsport liveries were only available. Heaven forbid full on liveries, just so childish. I don't want to look at garish, cheap, tacky designs. I don't want to see Nathan Drake's face on the side of a car. That stuff can stay in Forza and well away from the sophistication of Gran Turismo.

hey without the livery editor i couldnt have made this!

 

[Betta Lines]

What the fuck?

How is having more options ever a bad thing? You can't rewind online, so it doesn't affect how anyone else plays the game. Plus as an option/assist, it helps players new or inexperienced within the genre, find and correct their mistakes.

Also, liveries are fucking amazing. 95% of them look amazing, with a ton of effort behind them. I can't see how having the option to paint your car any way you like is in anyway a bad thing. I could maybe see your point with being able to disable viewing other people's liveries - but it's kind of a petty complaint at that point.

I agree that more options is a good thing, but the rewind thing on Forza is not completely an option... As in, if you mess up, there is an on-screen prompt that pops up suggesting the rewind button. Last time I tried F3, there didn't seem to be a way of getting rid of the prompt?

I also very much dislike liveries, and would never use them offline. But I'd be ok with racing people online with liveries.

 

[tusken77]

If a game like, say... Demon Souls got rewind, a lot of people would abandon it without a second thought.

Some gamers don't want these features that would lessen the risk in video games. Racing, especially, is all about the full lap performance. You can rewind one corner, but the road leading up to it affects how you take that corner. No professional racers only practice one corner of a race track.

Yep, just can't take Forza seriously. Aww, we didn't make the road wide enough for you? Ok, here you go, just rewind and try again. Aww, want high end cars now? Ok, here you go, just buy them with real money.

 

[Slayer-33]

Yep, just can't take Forza seriously. Aww, we didn't make the road wide enough for you? Ok, here you go, just rewind and try again. Aww, want high end cars now? Ok, here you go, just buy them with real money.

Don't like it? Turn it off.

 

[skyfinch]

I agree that more options is a good thing, but the rewind thing on Forza is not completely an option... As in, if you mess up, there is an on-screen prompt that pops up suggesting the rewind button. Last time I tried F3, there didn't seem to be a way of getting rid of the prompt?

I also very much dislike liveries, and would never use them offline. But I'd be ok with racing people online with liveries.

It's in the menu.

And in FM4, you can turn rewind off completely, so I don't know why this is even an issue.

 

[Xanadu]

Yep, just can't take Forza seriously. Aww, we didn't make the road wide enough for you? Ok, here you go, just rewind and try again. Aww, want high end cars now? Ok, here you go, just buy them with real money.

who would buy cars for real money anyway when you can earn them in game, i see that feature as pointless

 

[JWong]

You are wrong, practicing a corner can and will help your overall laptimes.

Practice the corner that you have a hell of a time with til you get it right.

You can't practice a corner without the entire track.

If you missed the apex on the previous corner, the next corner will always result differently that if you kept on rewinding. The speed from the previous corner's exit will affect the next corner's entrance. You can get an extra 10 mph (let's say 100mph) from doing well in the previous corner on a real lap, but you'll never know how to handle it because rewind only taught you how to tackle that corner at 90mph.

If you don't get that logic, then you really should play racing games without rewind.

Don't like it? Turn it off.

Is there an online mode that's only for players who never used rewind ever?

 

[tusken77]

who would buy cars for real money anyway when you can earn them in game, i see that feature as pointless

Some people don't have the patience to earn them.

 

[bj00rn_]

Yep, just can't take Forza seriously. Aww, we didn't make the road wide enough for you? Ok, here you go, just rewind and try again. Aww, want high end cars now? Ok, here you go, just buy them with real money.

"ON" --> "OFF"

I dare you to ignore it one more time..

BTW: This thread; What an amazing honeypot for my ignore list..

 

[tusken77]

hey without the livery editor i couldnt have made this!

Ha, sweet.

 

[acm2000]

Some people don't have the patience to earn them.

which is exactly why the option to buy them is there....

 

[SmokyDave]

BTW: This thread; What an amazing honeypot for my ignore list..

Nothing like an echo chamber, eh?

 

[Slayer-33]

You can't practice a corner without the entire track.

If you missed the apex on the previous corner, the next corner will always result differently that if you kept on rewinding. The speed from the previous corner's exit will affect the next corner's entrance. You can get an extra 10 mph (let's say 100mph) from doing well in the previous corner on a real lap, but you'll never know how to handle it because rewind only taught you how to tackle that corner at 90mph.

If you don't get that logic, then you really should play racing games without rewind.

Is there an online mode that's only for players who never used rewind ever?

1. I'm saying going from section to section to understand the basic principles of a certain tracks best racing lines. You'll piece it all together and after doing your homework you'll definitely gain an edge in the long run, this is good to learn the best gears to be in as well.


2. How is that relevant to online player races if you can't use rewind at all?

 

[skyfinch]

"ON" --> "OFF"

I dare you to ignore it one more time..

BTW: This thread; What an amazing honeypot for my ignore list..

Too much time and effort.
By the time I go into the option screen and turn rewind completely off, I could have gone to the store, made a sandwich, cut the grass.....make babies (not in this particular order). It just takes too much time and effort to turn rewind off. Preorder cancelled.

 

[Betta Lines]

It's in the menu.

And in FM4, you can turn rewind off completely, so I don't know why this is even an issue.

I stand corrected. Yay for options!

 

[Slayer-33]

Xanadu what's your best time with the Zonda Cinque in the Alps man? I need to hit dat demo, I can't find that rivals challenge in the preview copy.

 

[offshore]

I want my GT to remain elegant and classy.

The only way your GT is ever going to remain elegant and classy is by staying completely offline. The online GT community is just as bad as any other franchises' community.

So, let us all have a livery editor, you can stay offline and not have to witness them...win win.

 

[The Stealth Fox]

I failed a test thinking I could use rewind to get a second chance. Forza teaches bad life lessons.

 

[tusken77]

The only way your GT is ever going to remain elegant and classy is by staying completely offline.

Provide an option to disable opponents' liveries. Done. Dusted.

 

[Xanadu]

Xanadu what's your best time with the Zonda Cinque in the Alps man? I need to hit dat demo, I can't find that rivals challenge in the preview copy.

not sure, i'll probably play it later so i'll message you, its not great though as i'm a noob without a wheel

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

Oh please.

Rewind is the best thing to happen to racing games by far. It's very well implemented in Forza and it's an OPTION. You don't have to use it.

Fuck restarts, I don't want to waste my time. I'd rather perfect my god damned line at will without the tedious bullshit. Not to mention that you can avoid crazy fuck ups too (I'm sure this is the part that you don't like) but I mainly like the part where I can rewind and look for another angle of attack on a turn.

No sir, rewind is the WORST thing to happen to racing games (at least the Sim aspect of it) so far, Autolog is the best thing to happen to racing games this generation.

 

[Stripper13]

Rewind turns people into babies. Handholding.

That must be why it comes under the 'Assists' menu right? To assist people who are still learning the game right? Assisting those people right?

Provide an option to disable opponents' liveries. Done. Dusted.

The option would be welcome. That said, if being 'classy and elegant' involves have fuck all customization options for wheels/bodykits/paint-jobs and anything else that helps personalize the cars you earn... then I'll take Forza's method any day of the week.

 

[Slayer-33]

No sir, rewind is the WORST thing to happen to racing games (at least the Sim aspect of it) so far, Autolog is the best thing to happen to racing games this generation.

I agree with autolog being awesome but I still think rewind is a great feature! I don't fuck up often in ai races but I admit to using rewind when I do.


Xan don't feel bad, I suck with the wheel too I have been using the controller and I really love the feel of it but it's obviously not optimal, I'm down to 1:44:xx certified, top player is at 1:38 which is crazy.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

I failed a test thinking I could use rewind to get a second chance. Forza teaches bad life lessons.

I killed a neighbor thinking he would just respawn. My bad.

 

[offshore]

Provide an option to disable opponents' liveries. Done. Dusted.

Now if only we could get this through to everyone else opposed to a livery editor in GT...

That said, if being 'classy and elegant' involves have fuck all customization options for wheels/bodykits/paint-jobs and anything else that helps personalize the cars you earn... then I'll take Forza's method any day of the week.

I don't think that's why GT has such limited options, I think it's because Polyphony are stuck in 1997 when such options didn't exist. Now they're just miles behind. Hoping for a colossal improvement in this area with GT6.

 

[Slayer-33]

I killed a neighbor thinking he would just respawn. My bad.

Rofl

 

[Xanadu]

I killed a neighbor thinking he would just respawn. My bad.

reincarnation biatch!

hey offshore didnt that avatar used to be animated? i remember it from the GT5 pre-release thread lol. back when shameless was good

 

[JWong]

1. I'm saying going from section to section to understand the basic principles of a certain tracks best racing lines. You'll piece it all together and after doing your homework you'll definitely gain an edge in the long run, this is good to learn the best gears to be in as well.

2. How is that relevant to online player races if you can't use rewind at all?

You can't piece together a full lap performance. It's always going to be different, and only doing full laps makes it consistent. Then add other racers in the mix and you'll never get the same race ever.

Someone who trains without rewind will be always be better at full lap races than someone who does. I'd rather not play with people who will screw up and ram into me because they were rewinding without an opponent on their rear.

 

[Betta Lines]

That must be why it comes under the 'Assists' menu right? To assist people who are still learning the game right? Assisting those people right?

Very true. But is there some kind of reward to completing the single player races without using rewind? Because it would be nice to have something like that, for bragging rights between friends. I wish there were bigger rewards for using no assists, in GT too. Being able to complete all the challenges in 'full sim' mode is quite an achievement. It would also encourage more people to get better at driving games...

 

[Stripper13]

I don't think that's why GT has such limited options, I think it's because Polyphony are stuck in 1997 when such options didn't exist. Now they're just miles behind. Hoping for a colossal improvement in this area with GT6.

Pretty much my biggest disappointment with GT5. I can get past a lot of the shitty decisions. In fact, I can ignore all but two.

1. Inconsistent visuals. No need to explain this, game can look incredible or complete shit depending on the car/track/weather combination.

2. Customization. It is behind nearly every significant racing game this generation with regards to visual upgrades and paint choices/editors. It's performance modification options/UI are not nearly as good as Forza either.

 

[Xanadu]

Pretty much my biggest disappointment with GT5. I can get past a lot of the shitty decisions. In fact, I can ignore all but two.

1. Inconsistent visuals. No need to explain this, game can look incredible or complete shit depending on the car/track/weather combination.

2. Customization. It is behind nearly every significant racing game this generation with regards to visual upgrades and paint choices/editors. It's performance modification options/UI are not nearly as good as Forza either.

i agree, also the sounds in forza (especially 4) are way ahead of GT, which imo is very important

 

[Stripper13]

Very true. But is there some kind of reward to completing the single player races without using rewind? Because it would be nice to have something like that, for bragging rights between friends. I wish there were bigger rewards for using no assists, in GT too. Being able to complete all the challenges in 'full sim' mode is quite an achievement. It would also encourage more people to get better at driving games...

I'm not 100%. However based on previous Forza games and from the bits and pieces from Forza 4 impressions - everything under the 'assist' menu adds/subtracts a percentage of credits 'won', depending on how easy/difficult you make it.

For example, turning TCS off will get you +10% earnings. Using a manual gear box will get you +10% earnings, and using manual w/clutch might earn you +15%. So there is an incentive to remove assists. I personally will be turning off rewind immediately, as I prefer the risk/reward element of racing sims - but the option for newcomers/amateurs is important I think.

What might be nice is a system similar to Dirt 3's flashback stat tracking. Basically, if used a flashback at all, ever, it would count it next to your name. Some people would have 100 flashbacks, some would have zero. Might be a nice little badge for some of the snobs to wear I guess? The credit system seems like a worthy reward at this point however.

 

[Stripper13]

i agree, also the sounds in forza (especially 4) are way ahead of GT, which imo is very important

I have a 7.2 Surround Sound system that I use for all of my console gaming. I can't say I have noticed anything exciting in the majority of racing games I've played. Shift 2 had some nice sounding cars, but they were often overdone - especially the track and tire noise. I was delighted when I played Forza 4. The Zonda Cinque and 458 were fucking amazing to hear. Cars sound ferocious in Forza 4, which I think is every bit as important as the visuals when it comes to immersion.

 

[ShapeGSX]

I'm not 100%. However based on previous Forza games and from the bits and pieces from Forza 4 impressions - everything under the 'assist' menu adds/subtracts a percentage of credits 'won', depending on how easy/difficult you make it.

I believe that turning off rewind in Forza 4 is +20% in credits.

 

[skyfinch]

I'm not 100%. However based on previous Forza games and from the bits and pieces from Forza 4 impressions - everything under the 'assist' menu adds/subtracts a percentage of credits 'won', depending on how easy/difficult you make it.

For example, turning TCS off will get you +10% earnings. Using a manual gear box will get you +10% earnings, and using manual w/clutch might earn you +15%. So there is an incentive to remove assists. I personally will be turning off rewind immediately, as I prefer the risk/reward element of racing sims - but the option for newcomers/amateurs is important I think.

What might be nice is a system similar to Dirt 3's flashback stat tracking. Basically, if used a flashback at all, ever, it would count it next to your name. Some people would have 100 flashbacks, some would have zero. Might be a nice little badge for some of the snobs to wear I guess? The credit system seems like a worthy reward at this point however.

Yes, you get a bigger percentage if you turn rewind off. Plus, if you use rewind, a penalty icon appears beside your leaderboard time and your overall ranking will fall below anyone with clean lap times.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Yep, just can't take Forza seriously. Aww, we didn't make the road wide enough for you? Ok, here you go, just rewind and try again. Aww, want high end cars now? Ok, here you go, just buy them with real money.

All of this is optional and any "assists" show up on the leaderboards noting that you used them. Why are optional features that encourage more people to play the game bad?

Don't like them? Turn them off. You can turn rewind off.

 

[Betta Lines]

I see! Well it sounds like they've got it sorted already. GT has much to learn in this area.

 

[flyinpiranha]

No. You've put the hours in to build your credits up to be able to afford the higher end cars. There's pride in that. You possess cars that others who haven't put the time in don't own. The size of your car collection reflects how much time/how successful you've been in the game. With Forza's system your rewards become devalued if there's people who have the same cars as you that they simply bought. It undermines a core component of the game.

It's one thing, along with rewinding and liveries, that I hope never appears in GT.

Sooo ... you meant to say 'Yes' at the beginning correct? Because you basically just gave me a speech about how other people play their games affect your enjoyment of the game.

And honestly, nobody gives a shit about how much time you put into the game or how many cars you have.

It undermines nothing. It gives people that don't have the time to enjoy things in the game that in absolutely no way affects you to play the game. Unless you're some kind of an elitist.

And rewinding? Jesus man, it's an option!

No sir, rewind is the Best thing to happen to racing games (at least the Sim aspect of it) so far, Rivals Mode is the best thing to happen to racing games this generation.

Fixed that for ye'

 

[CozMick]

I didn't want to ask this in the official thread so....

How many polys is a single car pushing in F4 when 16 cars on track during an online race?

All this 1 million polys per car Autovista PR bullshit doesn't fool anyone.

Thanks.

 

[ElNino]

Sooo ... you meant to say 'Yes' at the beginning correct? Because you basically just gave me a speech about how other people play their games affect your enjoyment of the game.

And honestly, nobody gives a shit about how much time you put into the game or how many cars you have.

It undermines nothing. It gives people that don't have the time to enjoy things in the game that in absolutely no way affects you to play the game. Unless you're some kind of an elitist.

I'd only tolerate liveries in a very limited capacity or if online I'd have an option to switch my opponents' cars to a default base colour. I don't want to look at that stuff, it's cheap and tacky. I want my GT to remain elegant and classy.

Pretty much.

 

[dragonelite]

Sooo ... you meant to say 'Yes' at the beginning correct? Because you basically just gave me a speech about how other people play their games affect your enjoyment of the game.

And honestly, nobody gives a shit about how much time you put into the game or how many cars you have.

It undermines nothing. It gives people that don't have the time to enjoy things in the game that in absolutely no way affects you to play the game. Unless you're some kind of an elitist.

And rewinding? Jesus man, it's an option!


Fixed that for ye'

Buying cars with real money hey what can you say.
One person pumps work into the game the other works in real life for that money both are working and reaping awards.

And for rewind dont use it.

 

[The_Monk]

Fixed that for ye'

I agree with this 100%.

 

[T Ghost]

I didn't want to ask this in the official thread so....

How many polys is a single car pushing in F4 when 16 cars on track during an online race?

All this 1 million polys per car Autovista PR bullshit doesn't fool anyone.

Thanks.

As long as I understood the 1 million polys are for AutoVista only, not for the gameplay.

 

[tusken77]

It undermines nothing.

Yes it does. It undermines a core component of a driving game. Particularly a driving game with a community. It devalues the rewards and dampens the sense of achievement if these rewards can simply be bought with real money.

 

[ShapeGSX]

I didn't want to ask this in the official thread so....

How many polys is a single car pushing in F4 when 16 cars on track during an online race?

All this 1 million polys per car Autovista PR bullshit doesn't fool anyone.

Thanks.

They swap in different level of detail models depending on how close or far away you are from the vehicle, just like GT5 does. It is variable.

 

[flyinpiranha]

Pretty much.

Heh, I just find that funny, Liveries are the best ... you can fully customize the car you are racing in ... fully.

I honestly can't fathom how some people would dislike the creativity. Boggles ze' mind.

 

[CozMick]

They swap in different level of detail models depending on how close or far away you are from the vehicle, just like GT5 does. It is variable.

What about the car you're controlling?

 

[Betta Lines]

Yes it does. It undermines a core component of a driving game. Particularly a driving game with a community. It devalues the rewards and dampens the sense of achievement if these rewards can simply be bought with real money.

Rich people buy supercars in real life. They may or may not have earned that right, either through hard work, luck, or inheritance. Unlocking these cars through hard work in the game should be a satisfaction in itself. You should not care how other people choose to spend/waste their money.

 

[The Stealth Fox]

NASCAR.. GO KARTS... RALLY... vroom vroom