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[DOBERMAN INC]

This thread has made me wish I hadn't sold both my consoles.

 

[tusken77]

Does Forza let you play dress up?

No? Then it's clearly inferior!

I love that mini intro where your driver is walking amongst all the helmets and suits.

 

[duk]

stable 60fps = win

 

[Xanadu]

The cars in Forza 4 look a little weird to me. There is something off about them.

a lot of cars in forza are inaccurately modelled

 

[H_Prestige]

What do you guys reckon?

This is f-ing insane.

 

[Arklite]

The cars in Forza 4 look a little weird to me. There is something off about them.

Only thing that sticks in my mind is the noticeable brightness of the interiors, like there's a consistent light source inside, apart from the track lighting.

 

[BigPickZel]

I DLed the demo today for Forza. I don't know if it's my controller or the game, but the steering felt really twitchy.

 

[Shaneus]

Slayer- holy shit at some of those pics! 8)

Oh wait, this is the trolling thread. I meant to say, I don't even know what those are supposed to be, cars? Pfft.

I know, right?

 

[DivineRage002]

Could someone post a pic of a non-premium GT5 car? I don't own the game and I wonder how big of a difference there is.

 

[Arklite]

Could someone post a pic of a non-premium GT5 car? I don't own the game and I wonder how big of a difference there is.

There's one at the bottom of page 271. The quality of them actually vary, and that example is one of the worst ones.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Could someone post a pic of a non-premium GT5 car? I don't own the game and I wonder how big of a difference there is.

From the last page:

While some of the Forza cars are inaccurately modeled, they also don't look like that.

Is that supposed to be a Supra? It's hard to tell.

 

[Shaneus]

Could someone post a pic of a non-premium GT5 car? I don't own the game and I wonder how big of a difference there is.

That's one of the worst offenders, but there you go. Some are okay but the majority of them are clearly GT4 imports with no touching up.

For example, so is this:

So even amongst the non-premium cars there's a massive difference in quality.

 

[DivineRage002]

From the last page:

While some of the Forza cars are inaccurately modeled, they also don't look like that.

Is that supposed to be a Supra? It's hard to tell.

Mitsubishi FTO I think.

I hope they at least redid the physics for those and didn't rip those out of GT4 too?

 

[Metalmurphy]

Mitsubishi FTO I think.

I hope they at least redid the physics for those and didn't rip those out of GT4 too?

They did.

 

[NullPointer]

Could someone post a pic of a non-premium GT5 car? I don't own the game and I wonder how big of a difference there is.

Quality is all over the place, from flabbergastingly awesome to kill-it-with-fire, with most in between. That's pretty much GT5 in a nutshell: higher highs and lower lows and a lot in between.

 

[DivineRage002]

*yellow car image*
That's one of the worst offenders, but there you go. Some are okay but the majority of them are clearly GT4 imports with no touching up.

For example, so is this:
*Toyota Minolta*
So even amongst the non-premium cars there's a massive difference in quality.

The Minolta actually looks pretty decent, maybe because of the blurring.

But what the hell is that yellow car? Never seen that before.

Edit: Google told me it was a Hommell

 

[paskowitz]

That's one of the worst offenders, but there you go. Some are okay but the majority of them are clearly GT4 imports with no touching up.

For example, so is this:

So even amongst the non-premium cars there's a massive difference in quality.

Yeah. I noticed that most of the Le Mans cars are higher quality (minus one Pescarolo). Also the Audi R8LMS looks like it could be a premium until you get really close.

 

[erahk64]

That's one of the worst offenders, but there you go. Some are okay but the majority of them are clearly GT4 imports with no touching up.

Here is one that is uglier.

 

[Theonik]

I believe Forza 2 supported some crazy number, like 8 screens? Not sure about Forza 3 and 4.

Forza and Forza 2 are 3 screens, Forza 3 is 4 screen iirc. There are tricks to add additional views by spectating but every setup I've seen is only 3 screens wide.

no that I have that much experience on that matter, these kinds of setups are pretty crazy. And I was simply taking the piss anyway. Here is a link of the kind of setup I'm talking about

 

[Xanadu]

Here is one that is uglier.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5334/monteasoasfalto12.jpg[/IM]

[IMG]http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/655/monteasoasfalto15.jpg[/IMG[/QUOTE]

pathetic, do not belong in GT5

 

[Shaneus]

Yeah. I noticed that most of the Le Mans cars are higher quality (minus one Pescarolo). Also the Audi R8LMS looks like it could be a premium until you get really close.

I have a feeling that the only reason some are called "standard" is that they don't have interiors (and perhaps can't be painted) but other than that, are almost as good as premium models.

 

[Metalmurphy]

I have a feeling that the only reason some are called "standard" is that they don't have interiors (and perhaps can't be painted) but other than that, are almost as good as premium models.

No. Some were made for the PSP version, so they have more detail then GT4, but plain and simple, any car from other previous games is a standard car.

 

[shinnn]

Forza and Forza 2 are 3 screens, Forza 3 is 4 screen iirc. There are tricks to add additional views by spectating but every setup I've seen is only 3 screens wide.

no that I have that much experience on that matter, these kinds of setups are pretty crazy. And I was simply taking the piss anyway. Here is a link of the kind of setup I'm talking about

 

[LowerLevel]

Here is one that is uglier.

Fuck! Not my Subie! WTF!

 

[Xanadu]

overkill

 

[op_ivy]

also, are most of the tracks in GT5 standard too :trollface

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

One of my gripes with Turn 10's modeling agencies is there inability to convey the realness of glass, when looking at the windows in the car it just feels like there is no window.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

No shit, it is.

 

[eso76]

One of my gripes with Turn 10's modeling agencies is there inability to convey the realness of glass, when looking at the windows in the car it just feels like there is no window.

yup, work on that fresnel T10.
Glass should be way more reflective at higher incidence angles.

 

[rvy]

Yeah, that is a cool feature.

Oh, yes it is. I was just talking about the pilot picture though.

 

[Theonik]

I stand corrected. :lol

 

[buhdeh]

The cars in Forza 4 look a little weird to me. There is something off about them.

I don't have Forza 4 but in Forza 3, some of the cars looked REALLY off. The 98-01 Subaru Impreza just looked awful.

 

[watership]

Can I get a F4 Veyron vs a GT Veyron pls?

 

[Shaneus]

Can I get a F4 Veyron vs a GT Veyron pls?

I see what you did there.

 

[Slayer-33]

What do you guys reckon?

Tried to recreate the GT shot couldn't get the angle right or area that allowed similar lighting.

GT's lighting isn't questioned but FM 4 can really come close under right conditions.

Bonus untouched and re-sized and touched a lil

When we get shit like that in bigshot uncompressed resolution ^ I don't know what we'll get.

T10 just needs to patch the wheels to take in IBL and you'll get monstrous results from FM 4's photomode I bet.

 

[Iknos]

With 4za coming out maybe a thread title change is in order.

Also when GT5 came out it was apparent that both of these games fall short in so many respects to standards set by other sim racers that maybe it should be a general comparison thread.

In a nutshell GT5 was a horrible game with some great driving experiences while FM3 was a great game with a neutered driving experience. In certain areas they were polar opposites to each other and not very comparable. Graphics GT5 wins. Sound FM3 wins. At the time some other games were doing things right that both were doing wrong.

Now to the topic at hand...

Granted 4za still doesn't have the photoreal artistry of GT5 but we can all expect that when the tracks are largely the same. The new lighting helps the tracks look better but the textures are still colorful. PD still beats out Forza and every single other racing game.

Supercar Challenge has better looking tracks than 4za even with its new lighting system. Maybe if T10 focused on making the tracks look good like they did the cars that will turn around.

One thing GT5 had over FM3 was the number of cars on track so it is impressive to see T10 boost their numbers to match it and still retain 60fps with no tearing. In cockpit too. The in cockpit lighting is much superior in 4za than in GT5.

Technically GT5 has a lot going for it but 4za hits the right balance. The only area 4za is behind is in artistry. If T10 ever had the lead artist from PD the next Forza would look and run to perfection. Similarly if PD had the same knack for performance that T10 has their game could run silk smooth and be even more impressive. Fact is that GT5 looks jawdroppingly good in screen and certain portions but when you play and see the framerate dip it really hurts the visuals. Gameplay too of course.

Visually GT5 is like a girl with the most beautiful face you've seen with the perfect amount of makeup with a flat chest but with very smooth skin with no freckles or blemishes. She stutters and goes into spasms from time to time so if you held her still she looks heavenly but once you saw her talk and move you aren't as impressed.

4za is like an above average looking girl next door with curves but nothing too showy. She wears a bit of colorful makeup but she moves with a lot of grace to the point where it impresses you and maybe turns you on lol.

Could have easily used men in this comparison not meaning to demean women into objects for comparison.

So what I'm saying is that right now the graphics are at least in the same league when previously it wasn't. Sure FM3 had cockpits and great framerate both those cockpits looks like ass. 4zas cockpits end up looking better than GT5 cockpits because of the lighting AND the 60fps. GT5 cockpit detail is still better so I'm talking overall look.

Now when it comes to graphics serving gameplay I feel like T10 got the right balance. Look at all the previous racing sims out there none of them were visually impressive but they did the job. Cockpit views in many PC sims are nothing near GT5 levels but they were there to make the experience more immersive and were never added in such a way where performance was still there.

RBR looks very washed out but the detail in the tracks was sufficient and critical to get a realistic feel. The roads edges were modeled well and the road surface and all the dips and bumps you needed. The tracks were lined with foilage and trees. It didn't look the best but it served the gameplay immensely. Cockpit view was basic yet it served its purpose and made the game better.

GT5 has graphics that make the gameplay better in the form of day/night and weather but they didn't execute it as well as they could have especially weather. Seems like a test feature right now like GT4 in HD. Makes you wonder why didn't they concentrate on having cockpits for all cars or simply fixing performance issues. T10 had the right balance of performance vs. graphical feature.

If both games want to do weather right they are going to have to make some sacrifices.

 

[Slayer-33]

Visually GT5 is like a girl with the most beautiful face you've seen with the perfect amount of makeup with a flat chest but with very smooth skin with no freckles or blemishes. She stutters and goes into spasms from time to time so if you held her still she looks heavenly but once you saw her talk and move you aren't as impressed.

Holy shit! lolololol

 

[Shaneus]

That line makes it sound worse than it really is. I love it!

If both games want to do weather right they are going to have to make some sacrifices.

I think it's realistic to expect the next major games in each series (not counting Forza World or whatever) on the next console should be able to handle that sort of stuff without too much hassle. Turn 10 have a leg up in that regard because they've managed to work through techniques with each iteration of their game and could potentially apply that to a new platform, while PD haven't had the same luxury of building upon previous iterations on the same hardware (with the exception of GT:HD and Prologue).

I have more faith that T10 will come closest to getting it right on the first release, though. I mean, we don't want this sort of shit popping up again, which I'm sure PD could've fixed had they had the experience developing on the console.

 

[ZoddGutts]

pathetic, do not belong in GT5

This. 5 years of development to release parts that look like that. No excuses. At least turn 10 has an excuse of shorter development time for missing several features and being less graphically impressive.

 

[op_ivy]

so, this is a photomode vs. thread? cause there is definitely a hands down "in game" winner and it aint gt5

 

[backbreaker65]

With 4za coming out maybe a thread title change is in order.

Also when GT5 came out it was apparent that both of these games fall short in so many respects to standards set by other sim racers that maybe it should be a general comparison thread.

In a nutshell GT5 was a horrible game with some great driving experiences while FM3 was a great game with a neutered driving experience. In certain areas they were polar opposites to each other and not very comparable. Graphics GT5 wins. Sound FM3 wins. At the time some other games were doing things right that both were doing wrong.

Now to the topic at hand...

Granted 4za still doesn't have the photoreal artistry of GT5 but we can all expect that when the tracks are largely the same. The new lighting helps the tracks look better but the textures are still colorful. PD still beats out Forza and every single other racing game.

Supercar Challenge has better looking tracks than 4za even with its new lighting system. Maybe if T10 focused on making the tracks look good like they did the cars that will turn around.

One thing GT5 had over FM3 was the number of cars on track so it is impressive to see T10 boost their numbers to match it and still retain 60fps with no tearing. In cockpit too. The in cockpit lighting is much superior in 4za than in GT5.

Technically GT5 has a lot going for it but 4za hits the right balance. The only area 4za is behind is in artistry. If T10 ever had the lead artist from PD the next Forza would look and run to perfection. Similarly if PD had the same knack for performance that T10 has their game could run silk smooth and be even more impressive. Fact is that GT5 looks jawdroppingly good in screen and certain portions but when you play and see the framerate dip it really hurts the visuals. Gameplay too of course.

Visually GT5 is like a girl with the most beautiful face you've seen with the perfect amount of makeup with a flat chest but with very smooth skin with no freckles or blemishes. She stutters and goes into spasms from time to time so if you held her still she looks heavenly but once you saw her talk and move you aren't as impressed.

4za is like an above average looking girl next door with curves but nothing too showy. She wears a bit of colorful makeup but she moves with a lot of grace to the point where it impresses you and maybe turns you on lol.

Could have easily used men in this comparison not meaning to demean women into objects for comparison.

So what I'm saying is that right now the graphics are at least in the same league when previously it wasn't. Sure FM3 had cockpits and great framerate both those cockpits looks like ass. 4zas cockpits end up looking better than GT5 cockpits because of the lighting AND the 60fps. GT5 cockpit detail is still better so I'm talking overall look.

Now when it comes to graphics serving gameplay I feel like T10 got the right balance. Look at all the previous racing sims out there none of them were visually impressive but they did the job. Cockpit views in many PC sims are nothing near GT5 levels but they were there to make the experience more immersive and were never added in such a way where performance was still there.

RBR looks very washed out but the detail in the tracks was sufficient and critical to get a realistic feel. The roads edges were modeled well and the road surface and all the dips and bumps you needed. The tracks were lined with foilage and trees. It didn't look the best but it served the gameplay immensely. Cockpit view was basic yet it served its purpose and made the game better.

GT5 has graphics that make the gameplay better in the form of day/night and weather but they didn't execute it as well as they could have especially weather. Seems like a test feature right now like GT4 in HD. Makes you wonder why didn't they concentrate on having cockpits for all cars or simply fixing performance issues. T10 had the right balance of performance vs. graphical feature.

If both games want to do weather right they are going to have to make some sacrifices.

Said all that shit too say nothing.

 

[Iknos]

I think it's realistic to expect the next major games in each series (not counting Forza World or whatever) on the next console should be able to handle that sort of stuff without too much hassle. Turn 10 have a leg up in that regard because they've managed to work through techniques with each iteration of their game and could potentially apply that to a new platform, while PD haven't had the same luxury of building upon previous iterations on the same hardware (with the exception of GT:HD and Prologue).

I have more faith that T10 will come closest to getting it right on the first release, though. I mean, we don't want this sort of shit popping up again, which I'm sure PD could've fixed had they had the experience developing on the console.

Disagree since the tracks in GT5 right now are set up to handle weather and day/night. All tracks use the same lighting technique and so its just a matter of performance. PD made the right decision because they likely asked themselves "if we can't do weather and day night for all tracks which are hte most important?" and they focused on the most important tracks for those features. Those still have problems so weather isn't very suitable for competitive racing but its still a great experience if you disregard sub 60fps. Much like PGR4 it all looked nice and was a nice experience.

T10 has IBL working for them but they still use prerendered shadows on their tracks and will have to create a new realtime track lighting system.

There is no Forza World either.

Said all that shit too say nothing I will listen to because I can't handle the truth.

Fanboys can hide from reality but does it really help you? Does ignorance make you feel better?

 

[Slayer-33]

This. 5 years of development to release parts that look like that. No excuses. At least turn 10 has an excuse of shorter development time for missing several features and being less graphically .

Weaker hardware too.


T10 is learning though, they keep improving and adding big features a release at a time.

This time they improved the shit out of the core gameplay and the graphics/sound as well + AV, I'm sure they are not satisfied with what they got on current hardware when it comes to weather/night racing.

I'm sure for FM 5 you'll see some crazy shit on nextbox720.

 

[Mush]

This. 5 years of development to release that. No excuses.

While I'm not defending the cars themselves, did you ever consider that perhaps they were forced to include them in to bolster numbers due to pressure from Sony to get the game out the door?

GT5 is flawed game, yes. But that's why Spec II exists.

 

[chubigans]

One thing GT5 had over FM3 was the number of cars on track so it is impressive to see T10 boost their numbers to match it and still retain 60fps with no tearing. In cockpit too. The in cockpit lighting is much superior in 4za than in GT5.

Forza 4 has 30fps in rearview mirrors, so that's probably where the horsepower went to.

 

[backbreaker65]

Disagree since the tracks in GT5 right now are set up to handle weather and day/night. All tracks use the same lighting technique and so its just a matter of performance. PD made the right decision because they likely asked themselves "if we can't do weather and day night for all tracks which are hte most important?" and they focused on the most important tracks for those features. Those still have problems so weather isn't very suitable for competitive racing but its still a great experience if you disregard sub 60fps. Much like PGR4 it all looked nice and was a nice experience.

T10 has IBL working for them but they still use prerendered shadows on their tracks and will have to create a new realtime track lighting system.

There is no Forza World either.



Fanboys can hide from reality but does it really help you? Does ignorance make you feel better?

Not a fanboy, just tired of regurgitaters, and ignorant to what your I know what I'm talking about cause I read it at B3D?

 

[evolution]

Forza 4 has a 16 car grid now? I haven't played the demo yet.

 

[funkystudent]

I cant look at pointing GT5 racer guy without thinking about Sin Cara.


god damn it wrasslegaf.

 

[Iknos]

T10 is learning though, they keep improving and adding big features a release at a time.

How long will it take them to realize that they need to have better art for a better looking game? There are some things they look like they will never get right and a photoreal look is one of them.

Shift 2 and Supercar Challenge have a better overall look to them. Yes T10 getting a solid 60fps with all that they are doing is incredibly impressive but this is the 3rd Forza game on the 360 and you have 2 others on similar hardware that have a better artstyle.

I just don't think T10 will ever get a photoreal artstyle right.

Forza 4 has 30fps in rearview mirrors, so that's probably where the horsepower went to.

Which is better than 60fps rearview mirror that looks like Virtua Racing or a poor man's Daytona USA. Funny how rear view wasn't a issue when it was 60fps real time reflection in FM3 lol

 

[BruiserBear]

Forza 4 has 30fps in rearview mirrors, so that's probably where the horsepower went to.

notasinglefuckwasgiventhatday.gf


And I think GT5 is the more attractive game.