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[Niks]

That line makes it sound worse than it really is. I love it!


I think it's realistic to expect the next major games in each series (not counting Forza World or whatever) on the next console should be able to handle that sort of stuff without too much hassle. Turn 10 have a leg up in that regard because they've managed to work through techniques with each iteration of their game and could potentially apply that to a new platform, while PD haven't had the same luxury of building upon previous iterations on the same hardware (with the exception of GT:HD and Prologue).

I have more faith that T10 will come closest to getting it right on the first release, though. I mean, we don't want this sort of shit popping up again, which I'm sure PD could've fixed had they had the experience developing on the console.

I disagree.
Turn 10 still has to figure getting lighting and materials right before even beginning to think about rain and night racing. I bet thats not as easy, as they haven't been able to pull it off in two iterations of the game.

On the other hand, PD already has lighting/materials and cars down. They can now concentrate on ironing out things for GT6. Kaz already said that the premium cars in GT5 were designed with the PS4 in mind.

 

[Shaneus]

Disagree since the tracks in GT5 right now are set up to handle weather and day/night. All tracks use the same lighting technique and so its just a matter of performance. PD made the right decision because they likely asked themselves "if we can't do weather and day night for all tracks which are hte most important?" and they focused on the most important tracks for those features. Those still have problems so weather isn't very suitable for competitive racing but its still a great experience if you disregard sub 60fps. Much like PGR4 it all looked nice and was a nice experience.

I'm not talking literally about whether they can handle certain things, I guess I'm more getting at the fact that they don't seem to have either the experience, foresight or maybe just technical prowess to get rid of some pretty severe rough edges that shouldn't have existed in the retail release of GT5. Not even content-wise, but as an example things like particle effects and shadows should not look that bad when other parts of the game look so good.

Weaker hardware too.


T10 is learning though, they keep improving and adding big features a release at a time.

This time they improved the shit out of the core gameplay and the graphics/sound as well + AV, I'm sure they are not satisfied with what they got on current hardware when it comes to weather/night racing.

I'm sure for FM 5 you'll see some crazy shit on nextbox720.

I think for the next gen, Turn 10 will be where PD were (at least, expectations-wise) when the PS3 first came out. They've had a few iterations of the game out, they've (to an extent) realised what works and what doesn't when developing sequels and they have experience behind them. Honestly can't say I'm as confident about PD given that it's taken them until mid-late in their chosen platform's lifespan to get a single game out even with their time in the industry.

 

[OrangeOak]

Weaker hardware too.

Can you elaborate on this ?
People on tech forums,developers and industry guys such as Carmack can't point out which console is "more powerfull" because both systems are quite different and each one has some strong and weak points.
So maybe you know something more ?

 

[BruiserBear]

Can you elaborate on this ?
People on tech forums,developers and industry guys such as Carmack can't point out which console is "more powerfull" because both systems are quite different and each one has some strong and weak points.
So maybe you know something more

The general consensus I've seen equates to this.

360 is easier to work on, and easy to get good results. The PS3 is harder to work on, but the potential is bigger if you have the time and skill to exploit it. You see that in games like GT5, Uncharted 2/3, God of War 3, Killzone2/3, etc.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I mean, we don't want this sort of shit popping up again, which I'm sure PD could've fixed had they had the experience developing on the console.

That's hardware related. You can see the same thing happening in other PS3 games anytime you're trying to walk through smoke effects.

 

[Auto_aim1]

That's hardware related. You can see the same thing happening in other PS3 games anytime you're trying to walk through smoke effects.

Yup, Infamous 2 as well. It's because of the RSX; not PD's fault.

 

[Iknos]

Not a fanboy, just tired of regurgitaters, and ignorant to what your I know what I'm talking about cause I read it at B3D?

And I thought my writing was bad lol.

You either have too few or too many words in there. Not meaning to make fun of you maybe you hammered out that response I do that too.

I think for the next gen, Turn 10 will be where PD were (at least, expectations-wise) when the PS3 first came out. They've had a few iterations of the game out, they've (to an extent) realised what works and what doesn't when developing sequels and they have experience behind them. Honestly can't say I'm as confident about PD given that it's taken them until mid-late in their chosen platform's lifespan to get a single game out even with their time in the industry.

Can you compare T10 to PD artistically when they aren't even compare to Slightly Mad Studios? That's something I'd think about.

And Prologue came out a year after the PS3 was released so its not like PD took forever to get used to the hardware. Granted there was no night/day or weather in it but I'm talking general lighting/shading and artstyle.

 

[watership]

I see what you did there.

And I'm still waiting for the comparison pics.

It's an important fact though, GT5 has 200 incredible looking cars. Forza 4 has 500.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Did that Red Bull guy win the race yet? I want my free car. GT5 thread is in community, not sure how many people visit it.

 

[op_ivy]

Forza 4 has 30fps in rearview mirrors, so that's probably where the horsepower went to.

depending on grid/track. also, grasping at straws?

 

[OrangeOak]

still,it's better to have 30fps in rear view mirror than in gameplay cameras.

 

[Iknos]

still,it's better to have 30fps in rear view mirror than in gameplay cameras.

You do not know this forum well enough...

 

[chubigans]

depending on grid/track. also, grasping at straws?

That's exactly what a Forza apologist would say!

 

[op_ivy]

That's exactly what a Forza apologist would say!

yup. lets see more "in game" racing comparisons!

forza own gt5 while, you know, actually playing

 

[Gek54]

And I'm still waiting for the comparison pics.

It's an important fact though, GT5 has 200 incredible looking cars. Forza 4 has 500.

Are these not Autovista cars?: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31560845&postcount=12812

 

[Mohonky]

What do you guys reckon?

I reckon the guys and girls at PD should have spent less time dicking about with photo modes and stupid car intros and actually working on creating more in game 'premium' material like cars and tracks.

GT5 is undoubtedly king of photo mode.....but that's about it.

 

[AgentChris]

yup. lets see more "in game" racing comparisons!

forza own gt5 while, you know, actually playing

But GT5P owns Forza in you know, sales

 

[op_ivy]

But GT5P owns Forza in you know, sales

good thing i play games, not stocks

 

[Polyphony]

I reckon the guys and girls at PD should have spent less time dicking about with photo modes and stupid car intros and actually working on creating more in game 'premium' material like cars and tracks.

I'm quite certain that those working on Photo Mode, or those programming shaders, or that one person editing the game intro had no responsibilities in the modeling department or competencies with regards to modeling.

GT5 is undoubtedly king of photo mode.....but that's about it.

Also king of race suits!

 

[op_ivy]

Also king of race suits!

i concede

 

[ZoddGutts]

I reckon the guys and girls at PD should have spent less time dicking about with photo modes and stupid car intros and actually working on creating more in game 'premium' material like cars and tracks.

GT5 is undoubtedly king of photo mode.....but that's about it.

Wish they improved their A.I. and audio as well.

 

[Shaneus]

Can you compare T10 to PD artistically when they aren't even compare to Slightly Mad Studios? That's something I'd think about.

And Prologue came out a year after the PS3 was released so its not like PD took forever to get used to the hardware. Granted there was no night/day or weather in it but I'm talking general lighting/shading and artstyle.

I can't compare to SMS because I haven't really put the time into either of the Shift games. The first one I've played for a little while but could never really get into, the second I haven't touched because there hasn't been a need to.

You're right about Prologue, for sure. I just... it concerns me that there's a game that had taken so long to come out and needed so many post-release refinements (and additions that just weren't there at the time of pressing, such as seasonals) that I'm trying to work out why that was the case. Perhaps PD struggled moving to a console that they didn't know the limits of compared to working with PS1/PS2 (where they could comfortably push both, from what I understand).

That's where I think T10 have benefited from pushing out three games in the same period. They can hit the ground running with 720 (or whatever) whereas PD might still be coming to grips with having that much more power and storage at their disposal.

Perhaps maybe it'd be best if whatever the next GT game is, it narrowed it's focus and honed that rather than trying to do too much at once and falling short in all but a few (albeit, VERY important and critical) areas. Knock down the number of cars to 300-400, remove other modes completely *unless* they'd get fully utilised (rally, NASCAR etc.) and focus on in-depth upgrades and tuning of each of those cars as well as racing.



PS. For what it's worth, I don't intend to be dismissive or argumentative about any of the points you're making... I'm actually enjoying having an in-depth, serious discussion about this sort of stuff without being silly. At least, not all the time

Are these not Autovista cars?: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31560845&postcount=12812

Some are, some aren't. What's your point?

Yup, Infamous 2 as well. It's because of the RSX; not PD's fault.

Ah, fair enough then. Surprised no-one's worked out an efficient way of getting around it, because it looks like complete arse. Normally at this stage of a consoles life, they've found tricks to get around that (ie. shadows on the Saturn, that sort of thing).

 

[SolidSnakex]

Wish they improved their A.I. and audio as well.

The AI is being upgraded in 2.0. They're also upgrading the physics engine.

 

[op_ivy]

The AI is being upgraded in 2.0. They're also upgrading the physics engine.

:bow

 

[Arklite]

I reckon the guys and girls at PD should have spent less time dicking about with photo modes and stupid car intros and actually working on creating more in game 'premium' material like cars and tracks.

GT5 is undoubtedly king of photo mode.....but that's about it.

The last GT is the biggest game Polyphony has made. It's flawed, but they weren't "dicking" around. I think it's easy enough to say the game has content coming out of the seams. If every entry in GT has added some new substantial feature, then GT5 tripled the norm.

 

[op_ivy]

The last GT is the biggest game Polyphony has made. It's flawed, but they weren't "dicking" around. I think it's easy enough to say the game has content coming out of the seams. If every entry in GT has added some new substantial feature, then GT5 tripled the norm.

and to think they did it in 2 years

 

[TUROK]

So... GT5 has better looking bullshots than Forza 4? Great, I guess.

 

[hirokazu]

Perhaps maybe it'd be best if whatever the next GT game is, it narrowed it's focus and honed that rather than trying to do too much at once and falling short in all but a few (albeit, VERY important and critical) areas. Knock down the number of cars to 300-400, remove other modes completely *unless* they'd get fully utilised (rally, NASCAR etc.) and focus on in-depth upgrades and tuning of each of those cars as well as racing.

I don't mind having the extra GT4 and GT PSP cars, the issue there was the low number of premiums. I'd rather have the 1000+ cars driveable than just having 250 or however many premiums there were - having some content is better than no content. So I'd disagree with you and say they should definitely increase the amount of premium cars, but also keep the old ones that they never updated anyway, at least until premiums make up the vast bulk of the lineup or the legacy cars become too much of an eyesore.

I do agree with your other points though. Too many features meant most of them weren't implemented to extent that people wanted. Also, it literally blows my mind that you can't fine tune weather settings for offline races until the Spec 2.0 update. The weather feature is there, but you can't access it!

 

[Arklite]

and to think they did it in 2 years

They didn't. Sorry, I can't read sarcasm or cynicism on the internet if that's what this is.
A lot of time, a lot of features, a lot of ambition, and the game is enormous. They lost the polish of the previous games, but the time wasn't wasted on purely photos.

 

[op_ivy]

They didn't. Sorry, I can't read sarcasm or cynicism on the internet if that's what this is.
A lot of time, a lot of features, a lot of ambition, and the game is enormous. They lost the polish of the previous games, but the time wasn't wasted on purely photos.

no? how long did it take to nail photos?

 

[Arklite]

no? how long did it take to nail photos?

GT4?

 

[op_ivy]

GT4?

then the time beween 4 and 5?

 

[Arklite]

then the time beween 4 and 5?

You don't play the games?

 

[op_ivy]

You don't play the games?

what

 

[Arklite]

what

Are you asking the dev time? I guess they've been working since after Tourist Trophy.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Perhaps maybe it'd be best if whatever the next GT game is, it narrowed it's focus and honed that rather than trying to do too much at once and falling short in all but a few (albeit, VERY important and critical) areas. Knock down the number of cars to 300-400, remove other modes completely *unless* they'd get fully utilised (rally, NASCAR etc.) and focus on in-depth upgrades and tuning of each of those cars as well as racing.

Rally has been in GT since the second game, so it's not going anywhere (nor should it). Going backwards in terms of the amount of different racing styles in the series would be a major mistake. Having various styles of racing has become one of its defining themes. I know that they've also been kicking around the idea of introducing bikes, but it remains to be seen if they're willing to pull the trigger on it.

They can do all the other stuff you mentioned without yanking established features.

 

[Shaneus]

I don't mind having the extra GT4 and GT PSP cars, the issue there was the low number of premiums. I'd rather have the 1000+ cars driveable than just having 250 or however many premiums there were - having some content is better than no content. So I'd disagree with you and say they should definitely increase the amount of premium cars, but also keep the old ones that they never updated anyway, at least until premiums make up the vast bulk of the lineup or the legacy cars become too much of an eyesore.

Personally, I think that the situation with the premium/standard cars is almost a metaphor (I think?) for the rest of the game. The content is there, but an even level of polish isn't. Obviously our views differ, but I think the game suffers from having such an inconsistent level of graphical detail. Even if they still had "premium" cars but rather than having such pathetic examples of the "other" cars, maybe have three levels of detail. Perhaps in the guise of what T10 have done (in a way). Small amount of premium/AV cars (the current 200 would suffice), larger amount of well modeled (yet, not to the extent of the premium) cars with interiors, proper textures and upgrades, and a third level where none of the cars are required for any level of play... purely optional.

 

[op_ivy]

Are you asking the dev time? I guess they've been working since after Tourist Trophy.

yup, considering the time frame, they (poly) didnt delivery jack shit. polished anyways - which makes this thread laughably, compared to fm3- imo

 

[chubigans]

I really can't get over how seemingly little F4 seems to add on top of F3...~50 new/additional (?) cars minus Porches, and five new tracks. And a bunch of Autovista/Kinect fluff. And of course, you can get more than 60 DLC cars coming in the future with an additional $30 season pass. o_o

I can understand where Jeff at Giantbomb is coming from in the Forza 4 QL when he said he's already burnt out much faster with F4 than he did with F3.

I think that's why I can appreciate Gran Turismo's releases a little bit more...it takes ages to get one, but when you do it has so much new content you get your money's worth.

 

[Shaneus]

I really can't get over how seemingly little F4 seems to add on top of F3...~50 new/additional (?) cars minus Porches, and five new tracks. And a bunch of Autovista/Kinect fluff. And of course, you can get more than 60 DLC cars coming in the future with an additional $30 season pass. o_o

I can understand where Jeff at Giantbomb is coming from in the Forza 4 QL when he said he's already burnt out much faster with F4 than he did with F3.

I think that's why I can appreciate Gran Turismo's releases a little bit more...it takes ages to get one, but when you do it has so much new content you get your money's worth.

What did GT5 add over GT4? Weather and night racing? From all accounts, GT has kept almost exactly the same structure over several games.

 

[op_ivy]

What did GT5 add over GT4? Weather and night racing? From all accounts, GT has kept almost exactly the same structure over several games.

premium models. well, for some cars. also, premium tracks... well, for some tracks

 

[Arklite]

yup, considering the time frame, they (poly) didnt delivery jack shit. polished anyways - which makes this thread laughably, compared to fm3- imo

I'm comparing to GT4, but I don't think FM3 had things like weather or the course maker, and GT never had online so that was huge for them. GT never had damage modeling either, nor did it have Ferrari or Lamborghini. It didn't have the Karts and it didn't have NASCAR. I know this is sounding like a bullet point list, but GT4 and 5 are night and day.

 

[chubigans]

What did GT5 add over GT4? Weather and night racing? From all accounts, GT has kept almost exactly the same structure over several games.

And NASCAR, and Karts, and a track editor, and hell yeah weather and night racing, and also online modes and a complete graphical overhaul and cockpit views (on most stuff, anyways), and damage support, and of course new tracks and cars, as well as weekly online DLC challenges and such.

The only thing that has stayed the same is GT Mode and Arcade Mode, which does need a new structure, I agree.

 

[op_ivy]

And NASCAR, and Karts, and a track editor, and hell yeah weather and night racing, and also online modes and a complete graphical overhaul and cockpit views (on most stuff, anyways), and damage support, and of course new tracks and cars, as well as weekly online DLC challenges and such.

The only thing that has stayed the same is GT Mode and Arcade Mode, which does need a new structure, I agree.

have fun playing gt 5 till... what, 2016?

 

[Phonomezer]

I wish 80% of the cars in Forza 4 were copy/paste jobs from Forza 1

 

[Gek54]

What did GT5 add over GT4? Weather and night racing? From all accounts, GT has kept almost exactly the same structure over several games.

Thats true, GT4 already had unassisted linear 900 degree steering, gravel and snow tracks, night tracks, wet tracks.

 

[Mush]

have fun playing gt 5 till... what, 2016?

If they keep supporting it, I'll have no problem playing till then.

Maybe if the nextbox supports Logitech wheels, I'll play some more Forza as well.

 

[chubigans]

Thats true, GT4 already had unassisted linear 900 degree steering, gravel and snow tracks, night tracks, wet tracks.

Oh snap.

I love you thread, I'm so glad you're back.

 

[op_ivy]

Thats true, GT4 already had unassisted linear 900 degree steering, gravel and snow tracks, night tracks, wet tracks.

it was flawless

 

[Mohonky]

The last GT is the biggest game Polyphony has made. It's flawed, but they weren't "dicking" around. I think it's easy enough to say the game has content coming out of the seams. If every entry in GT has added some new substantial feature, then GT5 tripled the norm.

How do you figure?

Between the copy / paste cars, copy paste tracks, the continued bumper car physics, the cars still sound like vacuum cleaners (and that awful tyre squeal).....I don't know how any one can defend PD. For what was it, about 5 or 6 years development, I wouldn't be expecting any of last generations content to be just copied over.

PD added some pretty cool content but then they just relied on their previous content from last gen. If they couldn't do it all, why bother doing a real half assed job of it?

I definitely believe they were dicking about between all the GT demos, parties, track dates etc. Seems like money, time and resources that would have been better spent on just getting the content finished up.