-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35
- Thread starter bishoptl
- Start date
The Stealth Fox
Junior Member
Anything to prop up the toy car simulator.Xanadu said:
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
Xanadu said:
Talk about bias, they even used autovista against showroom instead of showroom vs showroom. The video shows that Forza has really come a long way, but it still doesn't look natural.
It looks better, because You scale from 50% more of polys than in 720p mode and one way [horizontal or vertical] scaling gives better results. Thats why dynamic resolution scaling in Rage, Brink or in Wipeout only lower resolution on one 'side', on horizontal side of framebuffer.Izayoi said:
BTW remember to use Flicker Reduction setting that turns off TAA that produce more jaggies in motion, but additional 2xAA on not moving edges.
Even though those biased comparison it shows that GT has superior renderer and assets.GTP_Daverytimes said:
Death Dealer
Member
paskowitz said:
As far as I know, 720 and 1080p are both native modes. The pixel counters established they have x4 full screen aa and x2 full screen aa respectively. Plus each resolution has an additional adaptive/selective x2 aa that can "stack". It can be changed in the video options.
I tried 720p last night because some people in the spec 2.0 thread said 720p has better performance (which makes sense). But I couldn't tell a difference, 720p still had some screen tearing. But there was a subtle difference in the graphics. Everything was a bit smoother, the edge of the cars especially, but it looked slightly fuzzy. The difference is very subtle, I can't say one way or the other which mode I liked better.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
GTP_Daverytimes said:
yeah, the game looks a bit to bright. They need to tone down the colour and the enviroment lacks shadow.
Bloodworth
Member
that's not autovista, it's just the normal car selectGTP_Daverytimes said:
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
Bloodworth said:
Upon closer inspection it is, but they should have used something like this for better comparison: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-KwHd-FmPQ&feature=related
Shot off-screen but you get the idea.
Xanadu said:
Lol with the Veyron. F4 looks a lot better than 3, but it's still a ways off GT imo. Something that's still too colourful and buoyant about the visuals. Also prefer GT's angle of racing view. Slight better sense of speed imo.
Though the standard car thing perhaps does deserve to be brought up. Though I doubt all of F4's vehicles are rendered to the same detail either.
Upon closer inspection of that video, that entire Veyron section, GT5's physics seem more realistic and well realised. In both the internal and eternal views the suspension and road feedback is far more accurate. You can see the car react to every bump or change in angle far more prominently than in F4. Cockpit view as well, where internal vibrations correspond to the road more accurately as well.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Izayoi said:
Far from it, 1280x1080p is not a small pixel rendering jump, because in the end that's over 400,000 more pixels than 720p that can be displayed natively.
Bloodworth
Member
Forza has a lower angle as well. I think GT's is right between the two. There's also a few dozen alternate angles to choose from in Forza's replays, so you should be able to find something you like.JWong said:
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
tigerin said:It pretty sad how a game like forza took less time to developed and yet giving gt a run for its money.
Turn 10 has one of the highest workforce in the industry so it's not impressive the time it takes for them to make the game, they have definitely improved though.
eso76
Member
nib95 said:
not ways off imho.
it's still too bright and colourful, but you can tone that down on your tv making it a lot closer to gt. Plus reds tend to pop out a lot more in forza captures, no idea why but that ferrari looks a lot closer to the one in the lower half of the screen on my setup.
Doesn't change the fact forza is still too vibrant and lighting is too harsh. T10 really likes very bright sunlight but then forgets to adjust ambient light intensity accordingly; GT has a lot less contrast, it's almost dull at times but it works towards realism.
Also, i think Forza textures for grass and tarmac have too much 'details' and are too sharp, ultimately coming off very 'gamey'.
GT uses smoother textures which, in motion, almost become solid gray and green which looks just right.
Forza also seem to lack any kind of shader on most rims and glass should be more reflective depending on viewing incidence angle.
tigerin said:It pretty sad how a game like forza took less time to developed and yet giving gt a run for its money.
In many respects I agree. Especially with the community and upgrade options/aspects.
That said, even after 3 iterations of the Forza franchise this gen, the last one coming out after GT5, it could be argued that the franchise is still not as content rich or feature diverse as GT5, or at least lacks in areas (rally, dirt, snow, night, weather, go-karting, F1, Nascar etc) and then there's the physics engine itself, which imo is still more accomplished and realistic in GT5. Visuals, lighting, shaders and so on, again all areas arguably better developed in GT5.
So it's not so clear cut. Though naturally there are things Forza brings to the table that GT5 either doesn't have or doesn't have as good a use of, such as livery editing, upgrade options, auto vista, auction house, telemetry, more accurate sounds effects, better UI etc etc.
Point is, GT5 taking longer to come to the table doesn't mean it isn't necessarily serving up a larger or more diverse meal.
You wouldn't need an explanation if you know what that expression meant, and I agree with him, that Forza has established itself as a bonafide competitor to GT despite its shorter development times.Loudninja said:
Yeah those flat shaders stand out pretty badly sometimes... some of the headlight bulb housings could use some metallic sheen, like the ones on the Nissan GT-R.
Xanadu said:
Despite I also hate *sales* comparing, one thing stands certain in this particular case.
Despite Prologue was bashed, ridiculed, dragged through mud back-and-forth and almost unanimously referenced as "demo" by great majority of media and communities, it sold in sky-high numbers. And before *heavy bundle* argument I just have to note how FM3 was also bundled to hell-and-back, from consoles to even separate controller bundles, so please leave that crap out of this.
Despite all crazy "demo" criticism and illogical (almost deliberate) tendency to refuse to contextualize purpose of Prologue - already established in 2003 with the GT4: Prologue release as part of GT series release-praxis - Prologue (in)directly led to even higher sales of GT5.
I don't know. People like to trash things in-and-out of context and sway them in path of their *arguments*, in the same time totally neglecting neutral and objective view on cause and consequences.
Amar-> Well...if the Kaz defense foce actually answered the arguments instead of basic "What? GT5 game design sucks?!!? Tearing? Framerate drops? Bad IQ? Bad game design? YOU ARE A TROLL!!!"...that would help don't you think?
Want to talk about how Kaz managed to propose another 3 skylines in the DLC when he recognized himself they probably went too far with Skylines in GT? Do you know ONE person who thought "Dam! That game would be so much more awesome with a little more Skylines!"?
Is that listening to the players?
Every critics people honestly make is bashed as if Kaz was some kind of unquestionable deity.
People who criticize GT5 may sometimes be wrong (I know I was on some points...?), but GT supporters are, on many points, in total denial.
Like when they pretend GT5 sounds are awesome..."it's just that you need a high end surround system"...the truth is: the huge majority of car engines suck: whatever sound system you have: they are nowhere near the bestiality and the brutality of real race cars... (btw: I have a great surround system)
Wanna talk about the framerate? The game design? the engine sounds? The car list? Objectively? Actually, I'd love to know what you think is wrong in GT5...if you think there is something wrong.
Want to talk about how Kaz managed to propose another 3 skylines in the DLC when he recognized himself they probably went too far with Skylines in GT? Do you know ONE person who thought "Dam! That game would be so much more awesome with a little more Skylines!"?
Is that listening to the players?
Every critics people honestly make is bashed as if Kaz was some kind of unquestionable deity.
People who criticize GT5 may sometimes be wrong (I know I was on some points...?), but GT supporters are, on many points, in total denial.
Like when they pretend GT5 sounds are awesome..."it's just that you need a high end surround system"...the truth is: the huge majority of car engines suck: whatever sound system you have: they are nowhere near the bestiality and the brutality of real race cars... (btw: I have a great surround system)
Wanna talk about the framerate? The game design? the engine sounds? The car list? Objectively? Actually, I'd love to know what you think is wrong in GT5...if you think there is something wrong.
The people hating on GT usually posts something like "The Ring is good, but outside of that it plays and looks like ass". And that usually results in "Troll" replies because it's just a fucking stupid statement. As was your very first post.Solal said:
Three Skylines out of 16 cars. They are RM'ed Skylines and I think they will be good fun.solal said:
"Racing Car Pack ($7.99)
Red Bull X2011 Protytpe 11
Dodge Challenger SRT8 Touring Car
Honda CR-Z Touring Car
Mazda Roadster Touring Car
Mazda RX-7 Touring Car
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X Touring Car
Nissan GT-R R35 Touring Car
Nissan Skyline GT-R R33 Touring Car
Nissan Skyline GT-R R32 Touring Car
Nissan Skyline GT-R R34 Touring Car
Subaru Impreza Touring Car
Toyota Prius Touring Car
Gran Turismo Racing Kart Jr.
Gran Turismo Racing Kart 100
Gran Turismo Racing Kart 125"
You are pretty much ignoring everything in Spec 2 and have decided to focus on the first DLC kit. Don't buy the DLC.solal said:
First - why do you care if people think Kaz makes a great game? I fail to see why that irks you so much. I enjoy GT5 immensely, perhaps you enjoy some other game that I don't like? Guess what, that doesn't bother me.solal said:
Some cars have boring engine sounds, yes. Some cars have awesome sounds. I would like PD to improve all sounds so they sound exactly like their real life counterparts. I do NOT want them to make the cars sound like you have your ear next to the exhaust.solal said:
I see no issue with the car list. Do I want more cars? Yes please. That doesn't make me angry that PD spent all of one hour importing the standard cars from GT4.solal said:
I have never had a race ruined because of the frame rate and the tearing is pretty much gone with Spec 2.
And the one thing that makes me really love PD: They keep supporting their game way beyond other developers. Other devs gives you on disc DLC, PD gives you free updates and first DLC one year down the road.
Windom Earle
Member
After playing GT5 and the F4 demo pretty much back to back... really, there is no contest. Nothing comes close the variable time of day Nürburgring in GT5. Oh, and it has the X2010. Automatic win.
I agree about the bullshit brake handling when disabling ABS though, I have noticed that yesterday.
I agree about the bullshit brake handling when disabling ABS though, I have noticed that yesterday.
Solal said:
"Kaz defence force"? What? LOL
Solal, if you'd knew me better, you would know that I am automotive & motorsport lover who is extremely happy that lives in time where current technology allows us to virtually recreate sensation of driving which I could never experience in my life for that amount of money.
I do not care about the particular title or platform or anything, as long as I get feeling I pursue for last 2 decades.
Of course, I can't neglect my personal respect and appreciation for Gran Turismo series because I find it different than any other driving/racing games outthere. I still remember the days in 1997 when I was first introduced to Gran Turismo game-disc and spent first week in total amazement with approach to the automotive and motorsport genre. That same feeling prevails today.
I do not want to be dragged into discussion on tone you're proposing because it is ridiculous and serves no purpose. We all agree how affection to some particular game is matter of subjetive choice and fulfilling the demands that every one of us subjectively lays in front of particular title.
BUt I will answer your final question, no problem there. Here is the list I made in the OT thread regarding things I'd like to see in GT5 and that were already existed in GT series prior to GT5. That is also the list of things I find that GT 5 is lacking. Notice that list is complied prior to Spec 2.0, so some details from that list have been successfully implemented with Spec 2.0.
Of course, I can also list other things, inspired by different games from the past or some things I would personally love to see in any of driving games, not just GT series. However, it would again be my personal and subjective list which would probably lead into another useless discussion.
My point is there is no perfect driving game. One day in the future, when all driving games forward towards *platform* format we will probably get closer to perfection. I am very happy that GT series got it's contender with Forza in 2005 and how Turn10 is trying to achieve the same level of recognition as GT series have. But in my personal book, they are still very far from that because the actual substance they're delivering is still far from the substance delivered by GT series.
I do not base my presumption above on any mesurable or quantifiable data, I am speaking totally in my own behalf. Through last years I have invested lots of money to experience Forza series on-pair with GT games. And I will always concur how Forza series has it own unique appeal and that it tackles many things in more concrete way that GT. But still, GT series prevails in my personal book from some reason that can't be explained by anything else than fact how driving sensation and overall substance delivered by GT series still delivers much more *soul* which I can sympathize with on my personal and subjective level.
Betta Lines
Member
Shame a lot of the polys are in the wrong place. The detail might be the same across the board, the accuracy is absolutely not. The variation in accuracy in Forza is as significant as the difference in poly count between standard and premium in GT5.Izayoi said:
test_account
XP-39C²
I dont think that anyone claimed that? The reason why sales was brought up was because that Solal said that there were no surprise that the GT serie kept selling lower and lower. So i think it was worth poiting out how much that GT5Shaneus said:
and GT5 have sold.You can only use less sales as an argument, never more sales. Apparently.test_account said:I dont think that anyone claimed that? The reason why sales was brought up was because that Solal said that there were no surprise that the GT serie kept selling lower and lower. So i think it was worth poiting out how much that GT5
CadetMahoney
Member
looks at reviews.JWong said:
Forza 3 > GT5
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Can PD use the engine on the PS4? I am asking that because i want to know if they can use the engine into future GT games.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Thanks.Izayoi said:
HollovVpo1nt
Banned
I don't think GT5 looking more realistic than Forza 4 can be generalised. At times, Forza looks more realistic than GT5. At least in my opinion. At this point they both have their own style. I like both. I don't want Forza to look like GT, and I don't want GT to look like Forza.