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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35

S

Snubbers

Member
TEH-CJ said:
Holy shit!

I have been playing gt5 with my g27 and I take back what I said about the bad physics. Holy shit man....

I have a 200sx with 255kw at the wheels and subaru b4 with 230kw and I race them at eastern creek 3 or 4 times a year. I was amazed at how similiar gt5 felt to the real thing in terms of feed back you feel on the steering wheel, torque steer etc etc
Click to expand...

There is no torque steer in GT5, it's been heavily "discussed" on GT/ForzaPlanet..

In fact, the games are quite different, you don't get any 'slip angle' feedback in GT5, and in FM4 you don't get much torque vectoring from the track surface (but you do from kerbs).



Perkel said:
sadly, yes.

I can't comprehend why they didn't include simple option on/off.
Click to expand...

Post patch, 900 degree mode with sim steering turns this off..

It's not even a major issue in 270 degree mode.. whatever it does, the cars still slide/spin/do what they should.. it's been such a non-issue for centuries..


I love both games in different ways..

GT nails the track surface feedback,
FM nails the tyre feedback and all the nuances like torque steer

I do prefer FM overall for it's physics/driving model, I can hotlap for ages and really feel where the tyres are slipping and I'm losing momentum, so I can get faster and faster just from steering feel, in GT, it's quite numb in that regard so getting quicker seems very arduous.

But I can understand if anyone thinks the opposite, as long as people don't think one is a simulation and one is an arcade game, that would be crazy.
 
M

Metalmurphy

Member
Snubbers said:
There is no torque steer in GT5, it's been heavily "discussed" on GT/ForzaPlanet..

In fact, the games are quite different, you don't get any 'slip angle' feedback in GT5, and in FM4 you don't get much torque vectoring from the track surface (but you do from kerbs).
Click to expand...

You get it in GT5 as well. It's pretty easy to tell in GT Academy as that's how the fastest times are achieved on most of the quick stages.
 
S

saladine1

Junior Member
Snubbers said:
There is no torque steer in GT5, it's been heavily "discussed" on GT/ForzaPlanet..

In fact, the games are quite different, you don't get any 'slip angle' feedback in GT5, and in FM4 you don't get much torque vectoring from the track surface (but you do from kerbs).





Post patch, 900 degree mode with sim steering turns this off..

It's not even a major issue in 270 degree mode.. whatever it does, the cars still slide/spin/do what they should.. it's been such a non-issue for centuries..
Click to expand...

Forza does this brilliantly!

With regards to the aids. That's what I thought.
It was fixed post patch after yoritomo pointed the 'bug' out.
I mean, you can test the shit out yourself. Pre patch,in the telemetry screen, you can clearly see the aid kicking in. Post patch, its gone.
Again, this is with the wheel, not gamepad.
 
P

Perkel

Banned
drugstore_cowboy said:
If F4 has any steering aids they don't work very well, I've done around 200 hours and lost control countless times, I don't find it any easier than GT using the same wheels.
Click to expand...

it's not auto win aid but it's there and when you save your tail, you don't know if it was you or aid.

Hope in F5 there will be option to swith off it.
 
S

Snubbers

Member
Metalmurphy said:
You get it in GT5 as well. It's pretty easy to tell in GT Academy as that's how the fastest times are achieved on most of the quick stages.
Click to expand...

Perhaps it's not torque steer it lacks, people where doing tests in RWD cars launching off the line, they should rotate in one direction if you light them up, GT just goes in a straight line, FM does as you'd expect..

Is that not torque steer?
 
S

Snubbers

Member
Perkel said:
it's not auto win aid but it's there and when you save your tail, you don't know if it was you or aid.

Hope in F5 there will be option to swith off it.
Click to expand...

As Saladine mentioned, that's gone post patch..

As I said, IMO it's never really been a problem, cars slide, spin, do what you expect, you had to get it seriously out of shape before it could have been considered intrusive, and that doesn't factor in to how I drive (usually trying to get the fastest lap)..
 
P

Perkel

Banned
saladine1 said:
Forza does this brilliantly!

With regards to the aids. That's what I thought.
It was fixed post patch after yoritomo pointed the 'bug' out.
I mean, you can test the shit out yourself. Pre patch,in the telemetry screen, you can clearly see the aid kicking in. Post patch, its gone.
Again, this is with the wheel, not gamepad.
Click to expand...

good to know they fixed it.

This wasn't bug it was intentional
 
R

REMEMBER CITADEL

Banned
Perkel said:
good to know they fixed it.

This wasn't bug it was intentional
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It was most likely a bug, I remember Greenawalt saying they were looking into it when it was first reported. It wouldn't make sense for them to include a brand new all assists off mode specifically because of all the Forza 3 complaints, and then intentionally botch it.
 
ResidentDante

ResidentDante

Member
This.....This thread is back?! By now surely everyone has played both games and are sticking to the one they like and not actually bothering to bitch about the other anymore?!
 
M

Metalmurphy

Member
Snubbers said:
Perhaps it's not torque steer it lacks, people where doing tests in RWD cars launching off the line, they should rotate in one direction if you light them up, GT just goes in a straight line, FM does as you'd expect..

Is that not torque steer?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I should have bolded what I was replying to. I meant the "torque vectoring" from kerbs. It's specially noticeable when you actually have a wheel on the other side of the kerb as the elevation is much bigger. I can't be 100% sure but I think it does it on regular track surface as well. In all my hours at the ring I've seen some strange behavior on cars sometimes without it ever lifting off the ground, which can be explained by that.
 
G

G Rom

Member
IIRC, the only thing left in FM4 is a 900° linearity problem but that's probably linked to the terrible XID. Amar could explain it way better than me.
Hopefully Turn 10 is actively pushing for HID wheels support for Durango. I'd love to finally be able to buy a relatively cheap yet good wheel (read DFP or DFGT) to play both game.


It's funny, I went back to GT5 recently as well and did the whole GT Academy. It's still the same things I love and hates about the game.
First thing that's noticeable after playing a lot of FM4 : IQ. GT5 feels almost jaggies-free next to FM4, so so much better.
Tracks not as smooth as glass, so good.
Also, fuck the 2D trees haters, we still can't do better 3D trees than the 2D ones seen in GT5.
Nordschleife with dynamic time of day is still as amazing as the first time I experienced it back in november 2010, it just never gets old. :)
The whole look is just superior, even with standard cars. This shows how important lighting, shaders and texture work are, compared to moar polygons.
Replays are still on another level as well.

The other things noticeable for me unfortunately are the framerate and tearing. The game still isn't constantly 60fps during normal gameplay.
I say normal because you can easily make FM4 tear and drop frames as well but under very special circumstances.
The constant loadings in the UI are just annoying. I'm pretty sure the time spent in the menus could be halved if it was menu 1>menu 2 instead of menu 1>fade to black>GT logo>fade to black>menu 2... :-/
I used to prefer GT5's cockpit cam over FM3's one but for FM4, Turn 10 truly nailed it (I'm strictly speaking about camera movements and FOV there).
FM is closer and closer to getting the edge in term of car list IMO.
Finally, the sound needs a complete revamp for GT6. FM4's one isn't perfect by any means but it's just much more accurate and diverse at least.



BTW, I think the cockpit photos of FM4 show once again that outsourcing could do wonders for GT. PD should just outsource the modeling but work their magic on the shaders and textures. Surely it would speed up the Premium process.


Next-gen will be very interesting just to see how both franchises go from here. They both have many things to improve. Imagine if the PS4 and Durango were to launch just months apart and respectively with GT6 and FM5. My wallet wouldn't be able to handle that much awesomeness. :eek:
 
S

Shaneus

Member
I'm still incredibly frustrated by the amount of sun/light reflection coming off the road in FM4. I've only ever seen roads that shiny after it's pissed down rain and the sun came out immediately after. Such a bizarre thing to have in there.
 
A

ascii42

Member
Snubbers said:
Perhaps it's not torque steer it lacks, people where doing tests in RWD cars launching off the line, they should rotate in one direction if you light them up, GT just goes in a straight line, FM does as you'd expect..

Is that not torque steer?
Click to expand...

Torque steer occurs mostly in front wheel drive cars.
 
S

Snubbers

Member
ascii42 said:
Torque steer occurs mostly in front wheel drive cars.
Click to expand...

It is Torque steer I'm thinking of.. Yep, it's most talked about in FWD cars, but it does affect RWD just as much, you just don't feel it through the steering wheel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_steering
Wiki said:
Rear-wheel-drive vehicles still are affected by torque steer in the sense that any of the above situations will still apply a steering moment to the car (though from the rear wheels instead of the front).
Click to expand...

It's a fairly minor point, there is a good thread discussing the differences on GTPlanet, http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=226995 and you can see good/bad on both sides..

I love any driving game, so whilst I have a preference, I'm not evangelical about it..
 
I

Iknos

Junior Member
ResidentDante said:
This.....This thread is back?! By now surely everyone has played both games and are sticking to the one they like and not actually bothering to bitch about the other anymore?!
Click to expand...

Haven't been able to play any racers due to health issues but when I stopped playing I was playing healthy doses of both games.

It did take laps to adjust in each game. Play both with the same wheel and there are clear differences in the titles. There are problems in both games and ultimately when it comes to wheel feel and realism I feel more comfortable with iRacing 2.0 even though I don't have an iRacing account myself.

But then you don't get all the tracks and cars that you see in the GT/Forza games and that is why I really like them.

At this point I cannot pick one over the other. Just can't.

Forza is great but doesn't replace GT and GT is great but doesn't replace Forza.

So you have to play both. If you have one and not the other you are doing yourself a disservice and missing out. Forza fans with Fanatec wheels...go get a PS3 and GT5 if you haven't already. The tracks and day/night are incredible experiences. La Sarthe in GT will feel more of a white knuckle racing experience. It's harder for GT fans because they may not have a Fanatec wheel...which you should consider anyways. Get a 360 and Forza. Turn on simulation. You'll feel a level of realism in ways you haven't felt in GT.

Not that I have the final say to anything but I can't think of any better way of concluding this debate. What there needs to be now is a thread that talks about how these games can grow. The PS4 and next Xbox will have the sequels to these games. So besides prettier graphics there has to be some new features to keep things interesting. There are a lot of things they can do but what they will do is anyone's guess. Due to my health issues I've been watching a lot more racing...and I think one area where they can expand is the ability to create racing leagues with their rules and vehicle setups and have short seasons for people to join and race in. Just an example.

But yeah if people want to debate go on ahead. I can certainly get into details on the deficiencies of each game but for both games the good far outweighs the bad and when you play both titles you get the good from both games so it's all good.
 
P

paskowitz

Member
From Astro-Racer at GTPlanet :
DtGzn.jpg
Click to expand...

.
 
G

G Rom

Member
Unfortunately this is so true... :-/
Did this for the FM4 OT the other day actually :
youshallnotpass-dangxk61.jpg

Same could be done with Kaz' and cars.


Also, what's up with this title change ? Forza Horizon clearly isn't a rival to GT. Its next rival will be FM5, probably on Durango.
 
R

REMEMBER CITADEL

Banned
G Rom said:
Also, what's up with this title change ? Forza Horizon clearly isn't a rival to GT. Its next rival will be FM5, probably on Durango.
Click to expand...

It's probably a joke on how we went from comparing Forza 2 to GT5, then Forza 3, Forza 4, and now yet another Forza is here, albeit a different game altogether, and GT is still at its fifth iteration.
 
C

Canis lupus

Member
REMEMBER CITADEL said:
It's probably a joke on how we went from comparing Forza 2 to GT5, then Forza 3, Forza 4, and now yet another Forza is here, albeit a different game altogether, and GT is still at its fifth iteration.
Click to expand...

Don't forget FM3 was compared to GT4. Cant understand how GT4 sold almost another 200k copies last year.
 
S

Spaceman Spiff

Member
I really need to get back into GT5 someday. I borrowed a buddy's PS3 and spent several months with the game last year, but never got to take advantage of many of the patches Polyphony had put out to address various issues and shortcomings; it's a completely different game now, from the sound of things.

Most of my time with GT5 was just spent hotlapping the Nordschleife with its superb day-to-night transitions, and the experience was captivating unlike any I've ever had with a driving game. PD's recreation really makes Forza's look like an afterthought, and that using GT5 solely as a 'Ring simulator was so fulfilling is a testament to how well done it is.

The biggest roadblock against my investing more time in GT5, (besides, you know, not currently owning a PS3), is the car selection, premium or otherwise. I was never into the JDM scene at all, so a large swath of GT5's car roster simply doesn't appeal to me, even though PD's emphasis on that market is understandable. Also, the nearly complete lack of contemporary racing sports cars and prototypes is a major deficit in my eyes, and that's an itch that Forza scratches so well.

You really do miss out on a lot by not at least experiencing each of the big two console sim franchises. It'll be fascinating to see how both evolve in the years to come.
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
TurkishEmperor said:
Cant understand how GT4 sold almost another 200k copies last year.
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That's how the series always sells. It's really the only Sony series that has legs like a Nintendo game. GT4 is probably the best example of that right now. It was released in 04 and didn't surpass GT1's sales until 2010. It's currently at 11.4m (compared to 10.8m for GT1) and is the second best selling game in the series.
 
P

Perkel

Banned
Metalmurphy said:
I suggest you take a peek over at the high resolution PC screenshots thread.
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I saw it, played it and enjoyed it. There is no questions it's quite a looker and as PC game thanks to IQ looks really preaty.

But there is little diffrence between looking good and f. amazing.

It was no coincidence I said spa and nring with type of weather. Especialy Spa just looks real in overcast wmdather.

Any other track beside those two aren't so amazing with few looking ugly.
 
C

Card Boy

Banned
I got a 360 afew days ago and got Forza 3 Ultimate as Forza 4 was double the price here. I have had a PS3 since MGS4 came out in 2008 and have GT5. Let me just say the king is dead, there is a new king in the house. There graphics of Forza 3 are slightly lower and the online is smaller, but the game is way better in everything else for me. It's what GT5 should of being. I would rate GT5 a 4 out of 10 and give Forza 3 a 9 out of 10.

Slightly unrelated is PGR4 worth getting? Does it hold up?
 
S

state_vector_collapse

Member
Gez said:
Slightly unrelated is PGR4 worth getting? Does it hold up?
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PGR4 should be so cheap now that it is worth giving it a try even if you are unsure. It's a fantastic game and as has been said, still holds up very well. I still think it's quite the looker as well. One of the few Xbox games that has some very nice natural looking lighting in it.
 
G

G Rom

Member
Gez said:
I got a 360 afew days ago and got Forza 3 Ultimate as Forza 4 was double the price here. I have had a PS3 since MGS4 came out in 2008 and have GT5. Let me just say the king is dead, there is a new king in the house. There graphics of Forza 3 are slightly lower and the online is smaller, but the game is way better in everything else for me. It's what GT5 should of being. I would rate GT5 a 4 out of 10 and give Forza 3 a 9 out of 10.

Slightly unrelated is PGR4 worth getting? Does it hold up?
Click to expand...

I dont agree with your GT5 score (especially post patches) but definitely get Forza 4 when you can, it's miles ahead of FM3 in term of driving experience and just a much more polished game overall.

Also, PGR4, go buy it, now !
 
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