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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35
- Thread starter bishoptl
- Start date
I love you.
So I make a simple statement based on experience that I cannot with confidence say what is pretty commonly known anyway I can't be taken seriously... ok.....
Nothing seems to be changing so yes you count the ass load of contractors as Turn 10 are going to continue using them in the future.
Lets not get crazy now angst
Maybe it'll have a better/more realistic lighting/art style, but that'll be it.
They'll be too busy playing the best sim racer on consoles, even if not the best looking one.
I don't think they'll be too bothered about a next gen racer looking better than an old gen racer.
Yep, you're not biased at all....
You're already calling GT6 the best and it's not even announced yet and you say people won't take my comments seriously.
Lets not get crazy now angst
Maybe it'll have a better/more realistic lighting/art style, but that'll be it.
They'll be too busy playing the best sim racer on consoles, even if not the best looking one.
I don't think they'll be too bothered about a next gen racer looking better than an old gen racer.
This thread is all about crazy mm, I'm just trying to fit in.
Now for serious.
I am really waiting to see what can IBL solution that Forza is using do on next-gen hardware. Especially within objects-confined areas (read: cities, I REALLY hope cities and street racing will become part of Forza again), in night-time races and with day/night changes (I was really not so impressed with IBL performance on dusk-setting in Forza 4).
In the same time it will be interesting to see what PD can do with their real-time HDR solution on PS3 and can they find a way to apply proper alphas within constraints of split-RAM.
And it will be really interesting to witness what will Forza do with weather and day/night changes for NextBox and what will PD deliver in the same area for GT6 on this generation.
What I am HOPING THE MOST is that Turn10 will finally give their *Simulation* model a proper recognition within game and highlight it as they should.
Simulation mode of Forza 4 is far the greatest physics mode in Forza EVER and I have NEVER found ANYONE willing to drive or to join my open lobby with Simulation settings.
Also, T10 NEVER explored potential of the Simulation mode for either Leaderboards, Rivals or Online and that is my single greatest complaint on FM4. They had such a great model and mode in the game and they were just too afraid to give it a proper treatment. Madness.
Again with the hostility. Bloody hell.
Is that really remade? Take a higher polycount version of the same source they used before? I also really doubt they changed anything other than tweaking interiors with most car models in Forza 4.
Never got Forza 4 (waited for UC and overhyped Forza 3) so I don't know if they fixed it, but tons of racing cars had no dials what so ever.
Well, that gets me hyped big time. I'm reading so much in to this: like GT6 being cross gen / cross platform; all old tracks besides all rumored new tracks; livery editor; proper track creator; loads of A-spec races; event creater; etc, etc, etc....
my tag is p3tran
I've been looking for an excuse to fire up the old box
for your last point, t10 trying to appeal to mass audience has inserted a whole lotta aids etc to make accessible and fun. while I approve, I believe that since forza represents the realistic portion of racing games on xbox, it should focus on improving and elaborate that part of the game as much if not more than focusing on how to make it accessible to casual players.
example, during this console gen, from game to game we where expecting stuff like leaderboards per car model per category to appear, in the sense to become more analytical on the competitive, realistic side. or the way the aftermarket mods enhance the performance. they could game by game make it more closely matched to reality. I dont want to sound wrong, they have created a full system that works, and that is a big achievement. plus, basically the options you talk about are there, but up to the player to use them.
while a lot of enhancements for easy access happened, my personal opinion is that the realistic, the "sim"ish side if you like, did not get fully blown to its max potential. yes, I know, tire manufacturer data yadda yadda etc. but still, I believe more could be done on this front. to be fair, maybe not very possible in the timeframe that microsoft wanted t10 to bring out the games.
but I agree with you. plus, they could have done stuff through updates, after they shipped the game if they really wanted to.
I think they do one mistake: they studied the data of online races too much, in order to provide more of what they saw that was played. But for me, you dont go like this. you go to the fucking track, you go to the fucking aftermarket, you go to street race culture, and you study their data in order to focus on what to provide. you dont provide based on what the average console player is doing.
at least when you want to be undisputed no.1
still, no matter the things that did not happen exactly like I/anybody wanted, both forza and gt, with their advantages and disadvantages each, probably still are the two games I would recommend to a guy that likes cars and racing.
The question is, will Turn 10 give us weather and night..lol?
I can't see them making anymore excuses. The power is there. The tech is there. It's all in place to finally deliver what the fans want.
Regarding physics model. I truly believe Turn 10 could've went all out with an absolutely amazing simulation model. It seems like at the last stages of production, they changed their minds or something. So what eventuated was an excellent driving model held back slightly from it's full potential.
What I don't understand is why?
If it was because of the masses, then fine. But that doesn't mean you need to scale back. With the amount of driver aids available, it shouldn't have made a difference.
Hopefully, they would've learned that 'dumbing down' doesn't translate to bigger sales or recognition. There is a load of games that have been dumbed down this gen and their popularity has waned because of it.
Graphics, i'm not too fussed with. A better lighting model and better shaders is all it needs imo..
Sorry for cutting off much of what you said, but regarding Forza's focus on arcade I think they should look at it like with SUVs. Most buyers of SUVs don't use them to go off road at all, but they like to pretend to other people (and themselves) that they do which is why SUVs come with tons of off road features. I feel it's the same with Gran Turismo. Casuals love that game because they can brag about playing a car sim and the constant focus on "one button racing" etc. etc. in Forza 3-4 kind off made it seem like they didn't focus on realism as much as PD. They keep talking about "Forza physics" in the background of Horizon, but do something like this again! I know the later Forzas use the same (tweaked) physics, but impress us again! It seems (and it wouldn't surprise me) like they added Sebring to Forza 2 just to show off the 360hz physics.
I feel they were just afraid of the time and possible downgrade in graphics needed for rain and night. Putting realistic lights on 400 cars alone ain't easy
personally I dont care for night and whether.
anybody who's ever stepped foot in a track, knows exactly what whether he hopes to have when trying to crunch milliseconds.
I would prefer to let all the unnecessary eye candy for horizon or pgr or whatever, and keep focus on forza being the best meat and potato dish available, if they can do that.
forza ..snow racing at night? right, as if I give a damn....
Unless of course hardware resources, developer resources and time are not problems that have to be somehow split.
anybody who's ever stepped foot in a track, knows exactly what whether he hopes to have when trying to crunch milliseconds.
I would prefer to let all the unnecessary eye candy for horizon or pgr or whatever, and keep focus on forza being the best meat and potato dish available, if they can do that.
forza ..snow racing at night? right, as if I give a damn....
Unless of course hardware resources, developer resources and time are not problems that have to be somehow split.
completely agreed, t10 have catered to the casual DIRT and GRID fans more and more with each title, forza 4 had so many god damn aids it practically drives itself if you want it to, i dont care that i can turn off rewind, its the most retarded thing to EVER hit a sim racer and if GT adopts this also i will be disappointed. you are right about the simulation steering though, very good stuff for consoles and a complete joke that hardly anyone uses it, bloody regressors!
why not? night racing can make the same track a whole new experience, you pretty much have to know a track like the back of your hand to drive hard. weather it adds huge variety to races especially snow, can you imagine every track has a snow option? taking your custom built rally car around tracks? so many options to choose from
ResidentDante
Member
Hahahahahahaha
like I said, if hardware resources, developers and time is not a problem, and you have my meat and potatoes cooked the best way possible, sure, why not.
but at the bottom line, your leaderboard time -if things are realistic- chances are that it will still be the one you did in the sunny, dry conditions.
I have expectations that other than the change in the majority of car models, game structure will be improved too. and so should you
cookie-monster
Member
all I know is that between GT Portable and GT5, Polyphony have no idea whatsoever how to structure a game. I'm not sure which was worse, no career mode at all, or a total clusterfuck.
this is true but i dont think its always about being the first or best, its about the experience and the best experiences i've had on sims is in GTR2 on a wet nurburgring sliding around in a porsche 911 trying to beat a saleen s7. you can now do this in GT5 (minus the 911 part) but i hope forza catches up a lil to what PC sims offer too
Goldrusher
Member
While GT5's inconsistencies are incredibly frustrating, Forza's is the game that really pisses me off.
Its not to do with the looks (even though I dislike its colour palette) its the tracks themselves. Alot of the real world tracks are extremely bad in accuracy (as someone who has done probably close to 500 laps @ Silverstone in RL) it just total ruins the immersion.
The main problem though is Turn 10's fictional tracks. I can honestly say that I think they are completely incompetent at track design. Every time I raced on one of them, I felt like turning the console off. Turn 10 are the only people that can make Hermann Tilke look like a God when it comes to track design.
They really need a complete overhaul with their tracks. Get rid off the lot and start with a clean slate. Untill they do that, Forza will always be GT's unlovable sibling.
Its not to do with the looks (even though I dislike its colour palette) its the tracks themselves. Alot of the real world tracks are extremely bad in accuracy (as someone who has done probably close to 500 laps @ Silverstone in RL) it just total ruins the immersion.
The main problem though is Turn 10's fictional tracks. I can honestly say that I think they are completely incompetent at track design. Every time I raced on one of them, I felt like turning the console off. Turn 10 are the only people that can make Hermann Tilke look like a God when it comes to track design.
They really need a complete overhaul with their tracks. Get rid off the lot and start with a clean slate. Untill they do that, Forza will always be GT's unlovable sibling.
cutmeamango
Banned
And the thing is that all those cars still behave/handle differently, so even if you are not having a desired visual experience (I do not care that much because I use bumper cam always), you are still having the driving experience.
Gouda Jouji
Member
There are a few Standards that were not in GT4 or GTPSP in GT5, I think.
EDIT: Found them.
Jaguar XFR '10
Mazda Axela 23S '03
eso76
Member
i wouldn't rule that out completely.
I think in the right circumstances GT5 looks better than Project Cars despite being obviously inferior on a purely technical level.
Lighting, shaders, the way cars move on the track, cameras...
If Polyphony just did a Forward compatible GT6 version (using higher lod models ingame, perfect IQ, higher res shadow maps, some ambient occlusion) i'm sure it will look phenomenal even when put side to side with 'real' next gen racers.
in photo mode? definitely, game play? not even close
What effort?
load GT4
ctrl-c
load GT5
ctrl-v
That's all it took. They didn't make any standards for GT5.
Besides, most of them look good. Definitely good enough to fill the field.
they look good from afar but it always distracts me when i go up close to the back of a standard car and see how low detail it is, breaks the immersion!
Risk Breaker
Member
Of all the things that shits me about GT5, the car models are so far down the list I am not even worried about them. There are so many other things that are more important to me that they screwed up that I think I don't understand the graphical complaints sometimes.
Metalmurphy
Member
Ofcourse they will.
You can already tell with Forza 4, as well as their arts on the studio, that's the direction they want to go. You'll get weather too.
There are a few Standards that were not in GT4 or GTPSP in GT5, I think.
EDIT: Found them.
Jaguar XFR '10
Mazda Axela 23S '03
Interesting, I did not know about this. My guess is that they weren't completed in time but were intended for the PSP game. Or maybe even PSP DLC.
<3
That's true.
There are flaws in both games that need quite a bit of attention. The way a stitch on a steering wheel looks in one game or the other is ridiculously irrelevant. But hey, I guess it makes for some good entertainment..
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
All the tyres look like shit, they downgraded the quality:
the track quality also took a hit:
non of that bumpy effect in GT5, it's just flat low res looking shit. If they combine the graphical prowess of both games then GT6 on PS3 will look amazing. GT World on PS4 will obliterate every other racer in sight.
I don't see how they couldn't give us at least night because Horizon was pretty much the test bed for dynamic day for the Forza engine.
I know it's a spin off title that has some trade-off but Horizon really is beautiful and the lighting is way better than in FM4. Also, the garage in this game just confirms that models (a part from the ported FM1) are, as I've always said, great and that with proper shaders and lighting they can look incredibly realistic.
Anyway, I really don't understand why T10 don't fix the few models that have modelling issues because they're always the same and dates from the FM1 era. I don't think anybody complained about models of car which appeared from FM3 onward (which now consists of the vast majority).
With that said, it will be a really exciting and unprecedented (except for GT4/FM in some parts of the world) for racing game fans if we do get a new mainline game in each series this year. This thread will also deliver like we've never seen before if it's the case.
Ahh, you would think so wouldn't you..but Dan 'beardy' Greenawalt can surprise you in ways you wouldn't expect..
Metalmurphy
Member
You're reading too much into things.
Hey you. Did you ever find out what an air brake was my "racing enthusiast" friend?
Sorry if I don't take your opinions on what makes a good sim racer (not game) seriously, specially when that's your counter argument.
They exist on standards actually, you just can't see them lol. You can tell by the ones that have them above the dash though.what steering wheel?
I don't see how they couldn't give us at least night because Horizon was pretty much the test bed for dynamic day for the Forza engine.
I know it's a spin off title that has some trade-off but Horizon really is beautiful and the lighting is way better than in FM4. Also, the garage in this game just confirms that models (a part from the ported FM1) are, as I've always said, great and that with proper shaders and lighting they can look incredibly realistic.
Anyway, I really don't understand why T10 don't fix the few models that have modelling issues because they're always the same and dates from the FM1 era. I don't think anybody complained about models of car which appeared from FM3 onward (which now consists of the vast majority).
With that said, it will be a really exciting and unprecedented (except for GT4/FM in some parts of the world) for racing game fans if we do get a new mainline game in each series this year. This thread will also deliver like we've never seen before if it's the case.
According to Turn 10 employee resumes, certain people were in charge of (and in some cases their only job) making sure models that were outsourced to various modelling companies were absolutely correct in every way. I guess they didn't do their jobs properly because ar recent as late mid-late '12, Turn 10 hired new guys for this specific job. hopefully it works out better for them this time...
Yep, this year will be a spectacular year for racing fans. I mean, can you imagine the sheer content that will be available from both games?
I truly feel sorry for the craziest of fan boys out there. To potentially lose out on one title over another because of some crazed notion of loyalty beggars belief.
I can't fucking wait!!
You have the memory span of an elephant, lol.
You sound optimistic.....
oh, and by the way, since this is a vs. thread, I do believe that in bullshot mode
gt6 on ps3 will provide better bullshots than forza5 on durango.
I dont want to say "far better", at least not yet
this has practically zero value for me, other of course than the fun I expect to have in the gt/forza community threads
gt6 on ps3 will provide better bullshots than forza5 on durango.
I dont want to say "far better", at least not yet
this has practically zero value for me, other of course than the fun I expect to have in the gt/forza community threads
the track quality also took a hit:
non of that bumpy effect in GT5, it's just flat low res looking shit. If they combine the graphical prowess of both games then GT6 on PS3 will look amazing. GT World on PS4 will obliterate every other racer in sight.
*looks at speedometer*
306 km/h in the first pic
10 km/h in the second pic
*shakes head*
Also, that F1 wheel pic is old as hell.
From:
To:
a shame how low res the bridgestone logos are
At least it has logos...................................................................................
Motion blur? ...
eso76
Member
it's almost the other way round for me.
Pcars looks incredible in screenshots, but everything falls apart during replays.
There's just something wrong about them, whereas GT5's are basically perfect.
Mind you, i've only seen youtube clips though and i know it has a lot to do with tracks being not finished etc.
Metalmurphy
Member
You're right, I guess they could end up making a worst sim than GT5. Everything is possible.
gameplay as in racing in the game
i have pcars but only a gtx 260 so i cant use dx11 mode, but even in dx10 mode it blows every current console racer away
Metalmurphy
Member
I got a 6870 and it doesn't. Not if I want to have it at 60fps. And that means no cars. Also the most recent builds keep running worst and worst.
One a decent rig though, yeah.
well of course it depends on hardware but that doesnt change the fact Pcars is easily the best looking racer out there atm
this was taken on poopy set up, does gt5 look anywhere near this good in game? no
