Support NeoGAF

[p3tran]

it's almost the other way round for me.
Pcars looks incredible in screenshots, but everything falls apart during replays.
There's just something wrong about them, whereas GT5's are basically perfect.
Mind you, i've only seen youtube clips though and i know it has a lot to do with tracks being not finished etc.

oh shit I've missed the "fund pcars" thing and have no access to any alpha/betas..

personally I will be a very happy guy if one pc team steps up and creates something that will blow both forza and gt out of the water. but as a whole game, not only in one department or two.

if p.cars can be that, they have my blessing

 

[ResidentDante]

Hey you. Did you ever find out what an air brake was my "racing enthusiast" friend?

Sorry if I don't take your opinions on what makes a good sim racer (not game) seriously, specially when that's your counter argument.

Naw, just amazed that you already decided in your fanboy set mind that GT6 is the best sim racer already. Open your mind and play them all dude and let the past go, you seem to have a hard time letting things go.

The main problem though is Turn 10's fictional tracks. I can honestly say that I think they are completely incompetent at track design. Every time I raced on one of them, I felt like turning the console off. Turn 10 are the only people that can make Hermann Tilke look like a God when it comes to track design.

I love the Maple Valley long version, the longer Camino Viejo tracks and the new Bernese Alps ones. Bernese has an amazing flow to it, high speed and long, fairly easy, corners.

I feel both GT5 and FM4 has amazing fictional tracks, GT's old classics have been around longer though and feel more familiar.

 

[paperspace]

It will be glorious, nobody will get out disappointed. Nobody.

GT6 releasing for PC?!

 

[Metalmurphy]

Naw, just amazed that you already decided in your fanboy set mind that GT6 is the best sim racer already. Open your mind and play them all dude and let the past go, you seem to have a hard time letting things go.

But I did/do play them all. Forza 3, Forza 4, Supercar Challenge, Ferrari Challenge, GT5, Test Drive Ferrari, Race Pro, etc. And that's just on consoles. What about you?

Also, what "past" do I need to let go off exactly?

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

*looks at speedometer*
306 km/h in the first pic
10 km/h in the second pic

*shakes head*

Also, that F1 wheel pic is old as hell.
From:

To:

The Indy shot is for the shit tyres, not track surface.

*shakes head*





not even the same tyre and both still look like shit compared to Prologue.

 

[ResidentDante]

But I did/do play them all. Forza 3, Forza 4, Supercar Challenge, Ferrari Challenge, GT5, Test Drive Ferrari, Race Pro, etc. And that's just on consoles. What about you?

Yeah, I've played most of them, not TD: Ferrari though. I maybe should try it. With assists off one could maybe add Shift 1/2 to that list, but it's a greyzone, the game had some great ideas though and felt very intense. Tell me after this that on console that GT5/FM4 (the last instalments) aren't clearly the best packages to buy if you want a really complete racing package (great physics and actual game build) and that you don't actually sit there thinking one is completely superior to the other and hate it?! I mean come on, I think they are both great, I just prefer FM4 over GT5, like you probably do with GT5.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

But I did/do play them all. Forza 3, Forza 4, Supercar Challenge, Ferrari Challenge, GT5, Test Drive Ferrari, Race Pro, etc. And that's just on consoles. What about you?

Also, what "past" do I need to let go off exactly?

How much time did you put into Forza if you don't mind me asking and did you use a decent wheel?

 

[FlutterPuffs]

well of course it depends on hardware but that doesnt change the fact Pcars is easily the best looking racer out there atm

this was taken on poopy set up, does gt5 look anywhere near this good in game? no

Too much detailed textures 2/10

 

[Metalmurphy]

How much time did you put into Forza if you don't mind me asking and did you use a decent wheel?

Probably not enough for you to say that it was enough to get a good feel for the game, (i disagree) but I don't own a 360. Probably around 20 hours. It was several afternoons.

The wheel was the porsche one.

Yeah, I've played most of them, not TD: Ferrari though. I maybe should try it. With assists off one could maybe add Shift 1/2 to that list, but it's a greyzone, the game had some great ideas though and felt very intense. Tell me after this that on console that GT5/FM4 (the last instalments) aren't clearly the best packages to buy if you want a really complete racing package (great physics and actual game build) and that you don't actually sit there thinking one is completely superior to the other and hate it?! I mean come on, I think they are both great, I just prefer FM4 over GT5, like you probably do with GT5.

I actually thought they were both very different games, each with it's strong points. Personally, GT5s strong points are the ones that mattered the most to me. Call it bias if you want but that's just the way it is.

this was taken on poopy set up, does gt5 look anywhere near this good in game? no

At what framerate? I'll take some screens later tonight when I get home to show how the game actually looks like when I play it. And I got a better card than yours, which is why I found your statement a little strange.

 

[ResidentDante]

I actually thought they were both very different games, each with it's strong points. Personally, GT5s strong points are the ones that mattered the most to me. Call it bias if you want but that's just the way it is.

No, doesn't need to be biased. I often suspect GT/FM biased people to be PS3/Xbox fanboys and that's the real core of the arguments. If a person has really tried both games and prefers one of them it's not being biased.

 

[Xanadu]

At what framerate? I'll take some screens later tonight when I get home to show how the game actually looks like when I play it. And I got a better card than yours, which is why I found your statement a little strange.

probably in the low 30s, but what does that have to do with anything? all PC games vary graphically depending on your system, so we cant say crysis 3 is the best looking game ever because a guy with 2005 hardware cant play it on ultra?

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

At what framerate? I'll take some screens later tonight when I get home to show how the game actually looks like when I play it. And I got a better card than yours, which is why I found your statement a little strange.

Take a pCars shot here:

Still waiting for a direct feed Forza 4 in-game/no hud shot...

 

[Xanadu]

i cant even access the nurb as i bought the lowest membership for pcars, god it pains me so

 

[velociraptor]

Project Cars looks the best. Clean IQ, nice shadows, lighting, decent textures and track modelling. Also, the motion blur helps.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Take a pCars shot here:

Still waiting for a direct feed Forza 4 in-game/no hud shot...

Will do. I'll even make one with the settings I use at good framerates, and one with everything maxed at unplayable framerates.

But only in 7 hours or so.

 

[eso76]

well of course it depends on hardware but that doesnt change the fact Pcars is easily the best looking racer out there atm

this was taken on poopy set up, does gt5 look anywhere near this good in game? no

yep, like i said in stills pcars can look amazing.
That's not what i call ingame though. Yes, i know you meant not-photomode.

I think pcars focuses too much on small details while neglecting the whole picture.
Too much of a brute force approach.

GT5 uses the opposite approach. Lighting, shaders, palette first. Microdetail, later. That's how GT5 can get away with 4.000 poly models that look completely fine from afar and poly starved tracks.

This is the first pcars replay vid i could find on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPpA3hzgG_E

i didn't pick one, but if you have better looking ones feel free to post them.
Of course i know that the track is very early. It shows.

Still, if you stop and look at the details those textures are probably amazing, geometry on cars is incredible etc. But the whole thing doesn't look right. Doesn't come close to looking real.

It looks a lot like Forza 4 actually. Palette is similar, it even uses very similar lighting and effects. Yet, even Forza 4 manages to look more convincing than this specific replay (and other ones i've seen) more often than not.

 

[Xanadu]

yep, like i said in stills pcars can look amazing.
That's not what i call ingame though. Yes, i know you meant not-photomode.

I think pcars focuses too much on small details while neglecting the whole picture.
Too much of a brute force approach.

GT5 uses the opposite approach. Lighting, shaders, palette first. Microdetail, later. That's how GT5 can get away with 4.000 poly models that look completely fine from afar and poly starved tracks.

This is the first pcars replay vid i could find on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPpA3hzgG_E

i didn't pick one, but if you have better looking ones feel free to post them.
Of course i know that the track is very early. It shows.

Still, if you stop and look at the details those textures are probably amazing, geometry on cars is incredible etc. But the whole thing doesn't look right. Doesn't come close to looking real.

It looks a lot like Forza 4 actually. Palette is similar, it even uses very similar lighting and effects. Yet, even Forza 4 manages to look more convincing than this specific replay (and other ones i've seen) more often than not.

all i can do is go by my experience, in game pcars looks stunning, the iq is almost perfect, the textures are super high res in the cockpit and the overall clarity is way beyond even GT5s faux 1080p. youtube vids dont do anything justice because they are compressed to hell. i mean i know my word means shit to you but i can honestly say without a shadow of a doubt that pcars destroys both gt5 and forza 4 graphically while racing, its not even close

 

[Sethos]

This is the first pcars replay vid i could find on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPpA3hzgG_E

A year old video from build 169 ... We're on 451.

Man, this thread ...

 

[Goldrusher]

nvm

Misunderstood Wax' post.

 

[Dictator93]

A year old video from build 169 ... We're on 451.

Man, this thread ...

It as if the straw man comparisons could not get any worse

 

[Xanadu]

Ouch, that Cars shot looks terrible.

The accuracy of the track is worse than horrible.

since when did pcars have ferrari? lol thats test drive ferrari

which is probably what the 360 and ps3 version of pcars will look like

 

[eso76]

all i can do is go by my experience, in game pcars looks stunning, the iq is almost perfect, the textures are super high res in the cockpit and the overall clarity is way beyond even GT5s faux 1080p. youtube vids dont do anything justice because they are compressed to hell. i mean i know my word means shit to you but i can honestly say without a shadow of a doubt that pcars destroys both gt5 and forza 4 graphically while racing, its not even close

Look, i'm not arguing that.
Technically speaking i am sure pcars is on a completely different planet.
There's no doubt about it, i've seen the pics, some of them are incredible.

Yet, i haven't seen a replay video that impresses me as much as GT5's
It's not a matter of texture res, IQ or clarity. I prefer the way GT5 looks.
It's just more realistic in many ways, more aesthetically pleasing, more convincing.

You see, I'm not really impressed by the kind of detail that gets obliterated with youtube's compression in games.
I value the 'overall' visual impact over tiny details and sharper textures.
That's why i said i think GT6 on Ps3 could still look 'better' than Forza 5 on Durango.

Just like i thought GT on PsOne looked "better" overall than Sega GT on Dreamcast despite there being a HUGE technical difference in Sega GT's favour.

A year old video from build 169 ... We're on 451.

Man, this thread ...

Man, some Gaffers. You really don't understand my point do you ?
Do i look like i just want to trash pcars and hype GT5 ? (if anything i'm a forza guy )

I said i just picked the first video i could find on youtube, feel free to post the best one you can find.
Look, i'm completely open to 'liking' pcars. I want to, actually, it's just that everything i've seen so far (except for some screenshots) looked somewhat off for different reasons.

 

[Sethos]

"I haven't played the game but here's my opinion"

 

[Metalmurphy]

One weird thing about pCARS replays is that the cars don't really feel like they're actually being driven around the track, more like an invisible hand is moving them.

It's weird because ingame it definitively doesn't feel like that, so I don't understand why it does on replays. Maybe it's the weight transfer that isn't being done properly.

"I haven't played the game but here's my opinion"

I played both, and I sort of understand what he's saying.

 

[Xanadu]

Look, i'm not arguing that.
Technically speaking i am sure pcars is on a completely different planet.
There's no doubt about it, i've seen the pics, some of them are incredible.

Yet, i haven't seen a replay video that impresses me as much as GT5's
It's not a matter of texture res, IQ or clarity. I prefer the way GT5 looks.
It's just more realistic in many ways, more aesthetically pleasing, more convincing.

You see, I'm not really impressed by the kind of detail that gets obliterated with youtube's compression in games.
I value the 'overall' visual impact over tiny details and sharper textures.
That's why i said i think GT6 on Ps3 could still look 'better' than Forza 5 on Durango.

Just like i thought GT on PsOne looked "better" overall than Sega GT on Dreamcast despite there being a HUGE technical difference in Sega GT's favour.

i dont see why you care about replays so much but ok thats fine, i hardly watch replays as i would rather just race myself then watch it, but like sethos is saying i think you need to play the game before making a proper judgement. as far as gameplay goes, not replays or anything else, pcars easily beats the competition

 

[Angst]

One weird thing about pCARS replays is that the cars don't really feel like they're actually being driven around the track, more like an invisible hand is moving them.

It's weird because ingame it definitively doesn't feel like that, so I don't understand why it does on replays. Maybe it's the weight transfer that isn't being done properly.



I played both, and I sort of understand what he's saying.

It's a bit like GTR1 and 2 on PC. Although I enjoyed them a lot it didn't feel quite right and never clicked with me the way GT4 did.

Fake edit: it's more about the watermark in the shots than anything else.

 

[eso76]

i dont see why you care about replays so much

now that's a good question i could never answer myself.
I don't know !

"I haven't played the game but here's my opinion"

Everyone knows i haven't played pcars, i am not trying to tell you otherwise.
But i'm certainly allowed to express my opinion since i'm only comparing YT vids to YT vids.
I'm fully aware that youtube's compression works in GT5's favour (hiding its many flaws in graphical fidelity) and against Pcars (hiding its fine details).
Still, like i said, it's not fine details that impress me

 

[Ty4on]

It's weird because ingame it definitively doesn't feel like that, so I don't understand why it does on replays. Maybe it's the weight transfer that isn't being done properly.

Bad sampling of car positions? In Forza it's taken to an extreme where they (especially in slow mo) just slide around.
Bad video for physics, but great for showing off the poor replay system.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

personally I dont care for night and whether.
anybody who's ever stepped foot in a track, knows exactly what whether he hopes to have when trying to crunch milliseconds.
I would prefer to let all the unnecessary eye candy for horizon or pgr or whatever, and keep focus on forza being the best meat and potato dish available, if they can do that.
forza ..snow racing at night? right, as if I give a damn....
Unless of course hardware resources, developer resources and time are not problems that have to be somehow split.

Night racing and Weather are "unnecessary eye candy"? this is news to me. Last i checked racing at night gives you a whole new experience, have you ever played GT5 in Night and Weather on the Nurburgring 24h? play it and then come back and see if it is still "unnecessary eye candy".

 

[Metalmurphy]

Bad sampling of car positions? In Forza it's taken to an extreme where they (especially in slow mo) just slide around.
Bad video for physics, but great for showing off the poor replay system.

It's much worst than that actually.


Also the latest build had some really odd sort of microstuttering in the movement. Car movement on the track would slow down, only to be speed up a few seconds later.


But ofc, we're talking about WIP here.

 

[p3tran]

A year old video from build 169 ... We're on 451.

Man, this thread ...

doesnt really matter even if its build 20345. its still only an ALPHA

for me it looks good already. even from youtube videos.
my main concern is how it plays, or better, how it will play in the end.
this is what will make it or will break it in my eyes.
both shift 2 and the ferrari test drive games look the part, but for me, they dont play as good as they could. these two are the last games the devs did before jumping into this, right?


p.s.
about replays, sometimes its nice, especially if you pull some nice stunt, to be able to enjoy what you did from a replay camera. even more if you are talking about your custom build and custom painted car.
I cant fault anybody that pays attention to replays, and actually this thing, replays and cameras and replay presentation, is what kaz is an expert at, at least in my opinion.
the way he (his team) brings the replays to look and to move, he is one of the best.

 

[malyce]

I re-upped my iRacing sub this week after a whole year away and i took the cup car around Laguna for a few laps. The accuracy is godly. I didn't want to stop driving. With insanely higher budgets than iRacing, why aren't console racers able to model real life tracks with such accuracy? This is a must for next gen.

 

[Diablohead]

doesnt really matter even if its build 20345. its still only an ALPHA

for me it looks good already. even from youtube videos.
my main concern is how it plays, or better, how it will play in the end.
this is what will make it or will break it in my eyes.
both shift 2 and the ferrari test drive games look the part, but for me, they dont play as good as they could. these two are the last games the devs did before jumping into this, right?


p.s.
about replays, sometimes its nice, especially if you pull some nice stunt, to be able to enjoy what you did from a replay camera. even more if you are talking about your custom build and custom painted car.
I cant fault anybody that pays attention to replays, and actually this thing, replays and cameras and replay presentation, is what kaz is an expert at, at least in my opinion.
the way he (his team) brings the replays to look and to move, he is one of the best.

I always love GT camera placements, I watch replays because it makes the race look exciting and to see your overtakes and corners from another perspective, like it would be when televised.

It took all the way to forza 4 for them to fix the terrible camera angles in the forza series, it's still rough in spots but they are watchable now.

 

[Pepto]

I often suspect GT/FM biased people to be PS3/Xbox fanboys and that's the real core of the arguments.

This is pretty much what this thread is about.

 

[shandy706]

I sure hope we see Forza 5 at E3.

I'm excited to see the "next gen" sim racers.

I wonder if GT6 will be cross-gen? I doubt it though, I think they're trying to hit a bigger market on the PS3...which disappoints me.

 

[Xanadu]

I re-upped my iRacing sub this week after a whole year away and i took the cup car around Laguna for a few laps. The accuracy is godly. I didn't want to stop driving. With insanely higher budgets than iRacing, why aren't console racers able to model real life tracks with such accuracy? This is a must for next gen.

cos top gear license is more important!

This is pretty much what this thread is about.

i am the only unbiased one here, quite the honour indeed

 

[Pepto]

i am the only unbiased one here, quite the honour indeed

From the recent posts you seem like a annoying PC supremacist.

 

[Xanadu]

From the recent posts you seem like a annoying PC supremacist.

well pc is technically superior yes, good call

 

[Pepto]

well pc is technically superior yes, good call

For now. Things will be different when 8GB of GDDR5 hits the stores.

 

[Xanadu]

For now. Things will be different when 8GB of GDDR5 hits the stores.

by then they'll prob be gddr20 on pc!

 

[phosphor112]

For now. Things will be different when 8GB of GDDR5 hits the stores.

It'll only be a year or two until 8GB GPU's come out using those 4Gbit memory chips, thus making them cheaper than things like the Titan right now.

 

[eso76]

I sure hope we see Forza 5 at E3.

I'm excited to see the "next gen" sim racers.

I wonder if GT6 will be cross-gen? I doubt it though, I think they're trying to hit a bigger market on the PS3...which disappoints me.

Fans of Forza Motorsport will be happy to know that Forza Motorsport 5 will be coming in 2013 as stated by Sebull of Microsoft France

Now, before getting too excited, this is very old (1 year old in fact) although i just stumbled upon it.
When Horizon trailer leaked, Sebull confirmed it was a - legit - being developed by Playground and not T10 - a different game from Forza Motorsport 5, which was planned for 2013.

Fuck.
I'll waste the entire summer looking at Forza Motorsport pictures being released weekly. Again.

 

[shandy706]

Fuck.
I'll waste the entire summer looking at Forza Motorsport pictures being released weekly. Again.

Some of us just can't resist that car porn.

 

[p3tran]

For now. Things will be different when 8GB of GDDR5 hits the stores.

we will see about that. first test is when battlefield 4 comes out.
if there is a 30fps lock, while a pc with less gddr5 but with better gpu/cpu will run the same at 60, then I guess those 8gb gddr5!! memory are not as important gamechanger as many people have made them to be.

 

[Metalmurphy]

RAM won't really improve your framerate by much.

 

[p3tran]

I just hate to even think that the new consoles will be stuck for the next 5-7-whatever years in the same conditions and bottlenecks that current consoles where, but for 1080 rez instead of 720.

GIMME POWERFUL MACHINES TO POUR MONEY ON GODDAMMIT

 

[Xanadu]

I just hate to even think that the new consoles will be stuck for the next 5-7-whatever years in the same conditions and bottlenecks that current consoles where, but for 1080 rez instead of 720.

GIMME POWERFUL MACHINES TO POUR MONEY ON GODDAMMIT

BUY A GAMING PC GODDAMMIT

 

[shandy706]

Ouch, that Cars shot looks terrible.

The accuracy of the track is worse than horrible.


edit: Not talking about graphics here, only the accuracy of the track and the trackside.

Ugh, the graphics are horrid too though. The environments in both games/shots look mediocre at best. Why can't we get a PC sim with at least console (F4) level environments?

 

[Xanadu]

Ugh, the graphics are horrid too though. The environments in both games/shots look mediocre at best. Why can't we get a PC sim with at least console (F4) level environments?

thats test drive ferrari, fools

 

[shandy706]

thats test drive ferrari, fools

Ah, I didn't recognize what they were from.

PCars is the only Sim I've played that is finally putting out some good looking environments. (there are a number of arcade racers with nice environments)

A dedicated company with millions to blow (like PD or T10) on a PC sim would be awesome.