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[TheUnsunghero26]

Forza fans have the inferior product. Forza fills in the gaps of GT. They exist only because of GT.

Trolling or joking?

 

[OldAsUrSock]

the car only needs about 4 polygons to look good, bloody jap box

LOL

Hey can forza do split screen multiplayer 3d on ONE console. Effectively rendering a scene 4 times.

Didn't think so.

Forza fans have the inferior product. Forza fills in the gaps of GT. They exist only because of GT.

Forza fills in the Need for Speed to GT5 gap. I think it does it very well.

 

[Xanadu]

playing some emulated gt3 atm its great stuff, its like playing photomode! (kinda laggy though) if only there were xbox emulators so i could play some forza

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

I know this has been said many a time but Polyphony car models and their lighting system just plain embarasses Turn 10. And when PD put their mind to a track like the ring or spa or special stage 7 you start to wonder how do they do it with less than 200 employees?

Because they favour aesthetics over boring shit like, you know, a tyre model.

 

[gtmax]

While GT5's inconsistencies are incredibly frustrating, Forza's is the game that really pisses me off.

Its not to do with the looks (even though I dislike its colour palette) its the tracks themselves. Alot of the real world tracks are extremely bad in accuracy (as someone who has done probably close to 500 laps @ Silverstone in RL) it just total ruins the immersion.

The main problem though is Turn 10's fictional tracks. I can honestly say that I think they are completely incompetent at track design. Every time I raced on one of them, I felt like turning the console off. Turn 10 are the only people that can make Hermann Tilke look like a God when it comes to track design.

They really need a complete overhaul with their tracks. Get rid off the lot and start with a clean slate. Untill they do that, Forza will always be GT's unlovable sibling.

Im glad you brought this up. Some racing games i cannot learn the tracks no matter how many times i go round them. Forza1 and 2 fictional tracks i absolutely hated. I could never master SIlverstone either. Any track on GT games though, it's the back of my hand. Fictional or real. They are just so clear that i can run them in my mind.

Same deal for Enthusia on ps2. Tracks were easy to learn. I suspect is the design thats the problem for me.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Because they favour aesthetics over boring shit like, you know, a tyre model.

Well that's a load of bullshit.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Your right, I forgot they included standard models.

 

[Betrayer of hope]

Because they favour aesthetics over boring shit like, you know, a tyre model.

what tyre model?

 

[Metalmurphy]

Your right, I forgot they included standard models.

Good thing they did, considering they have equally good physics.

what tyre model?

He's trying to pretend Forza has better driving physics, because tyre flex!

 

[satriales]

Theres something odd about the mountains.. they look flat? are they 2d textures?

You drive right up to them on some versions of the track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcYsGrqlWes

 

[SolidSnakex]

Im glad you brought this up. Some racing games i cannot learn the tracks no matter how many times i go round them. Forza1 and 2 fictional tracks i absolutely hated. I could never master SIlverstone either. Any track on GT games though, it's the back of my hand. Fictional or real. They are just so clear that i can run them in my mind.

Same deal for Enthusia on ps2. Tracks were easy to learn. I suspect is the design thats the problem for me.

I think Kaz's comments about the Ring help describe why it's easy to memorize GT tracks

Yamauchi's decision to compete in a real race at Nurburgring comes from his passion for cars and racing, but more so from his firm belief that the Gran Turismo series mirrors the real world, and that skills attained in the game are 'transferable' to real life racing. But while his game and real world lap times might be identical, he told us that there were things he noticed on the real track that could be added and amended on the current game.

"It was only when I launched the IS F over the Nurburgring's numerous jumping spots (in the real race) that I realized the landing areas were not all flat, as I originally thought in the game," he says. "Some landing patches are sloped to the left, some to the right. This is just one of the many challenges of the track, and amendments I will make to the game. As I pushed the car around the 15.5-mile track, I also realized that some details were different. Some trees which drivers use for cornering or braking markers were not quite in the right place, while some small buildings need to be adjusted too."

http://www.motortrend.com/features/consumer/1009_gran_turismo_5/viewall.html

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Good thing they did, considering they have equally good physics.

Physics so good even PD don't trust them, how many tweaks have they had?

 

[Betrayer of hope]

Physics so good even PD don't trust them, how many tweaks have they had?

I dont know which GT game you have played but i can assure you Gran turismo didnt sell a gazillion copies merely on graphics alone.

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

pd magic!!

the memories, where's that gt4 grand canyon horse photoshop?

 

[Metalmurphy]

Physics so good even PD don't trust them, how many tweaks have they had?

There's never been standard specific tweaks, they all use the same physics.

Also Good != perfect. There's always room for improvement. What you are trying to pass off as a bad thing is actually a good thing.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

I dont know which GT game you have played but i can assure you Gran turismo didnt sell a gazillion copies merely on graphics alone.

I bought GT2, 4 and 5. I know they play pretty well but from 3 onwards I think the visuals and hype account for a lot the sales.

 

[Betrayer of hope]

I bought GT2, 4 and 5. I know they play pretty well but from 3 onwards I think the visuals and hype account for a lot the sales.

You are wrong. Visuals and hype only attract and draw you to the game to give it a go. Its the gameplay that hooks you in and makes you want to keep playing it.

Why do u think GT has millions of loyal gamers all the way from 1998? It aint just the pretty visuals dude.

 

[Nilaul]

No.

Is it possible that they are 2d textures... which turn 3d depending on the distance?

(I own none of the two games, it just that something seems off about these mountains at distance)

 

[Dibbz]

Armchair analysts are the best

 

[paskowitz]

I think FM4 looks good, GT5 just looks real.

 

[Salacious Crumb]

All this thread makes me think is next gen can't come soon enough.

 

[funkystudent]

I have said it before but PD should really add a "photographer mode" in a future GT game. You can be a photographer for races and have to take pictures of stuff that happens at a race as it happens in real time and get scored on the quality of your pics and what's in them. More points for a good picture of a crash for example. Then you could use photo-travel locations for special photo shoot levels where you have to take a pic for the cover of "insert real world car magazine here".

Maybe it can be apart of a revamped single player campaign since they really need to scrap the current one.

 

[Chance Hale]

TGS 2010



http://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-5-tgs-2010-breakout-session-full-details/

I remember that, was just asking how I would be able to find the time to get through it all

 

[Mascot]

I think FM4 looks good, GT5 just looks real.

I totally agree. We can all argue about gameplay, audio, physics, UI, and content differences between the two games but from a purely visual perspective there's not even room for any debate. GT5 looks head and shoulders better than FM4 in every like-for-like gameplay and photomode screenshot comparison. I own both games and play both extensively, and GT5's AA, shaders and lighting seem a whole generation ahead. GT5 does look utterly photo-realistic at times, but FM4 (while still an impressive-looking game) never quite manages to achieve this.

The problem is, all that GT5 beauty gets heavily compromised every time the screen tears and every time the frame rate dips during actual gameplay, both of which happen all too frequently. For me, any feelings of immersion are instantly lost every single time these problems occur.

How any game performs while in motion and how consistent it behaves under stress is far more important to me than how it looks in static screen shots, and that's a big reason why I tend to favour FM4's overall aesthetic compared to GT5.

If GT5 had v-synched visuals at a rock-solid 60fps then there really would be no contest. Die-hard fans of GT5 seem willing to turn a blind eye to these issues but from my perspective they are far, far too distracting. Turn 10 placed great importance on consistent visual performance and I thank them for it every time I play.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I totally agree. We can all argue about gameplay, audio, physics, UI, and content differences between the two games but from a purely visual perspective there's not even room for any debate. GT5 looks head and shoulders better than FM4 in every like-for-like gameplay and photomode screenshot comparison. I own both games and play both extensively, and GT5's AA, shaders and lighting seem a whole generation ahead. GT5 does look utterly photo-realistic at times, but FM4 (while still an impressive-looking game) never quite manages to achieve this.

The problem is, all that GT5 beauty gets heavily compromised every time the screen tears and every time the frame rate dips during actual gameplay, both of which happen all too frequently. For me, any feelings of immersion are instantly lost every single time these problems occur.

How any game performs while in motion and how consistent it behaves under stress is far more important to me than how it looks in static screen shots, and that's a big reason why I tend to favour FM4's overall aesthetic compared to GT5.

If GT5 had v-synched visuals at a rock-solid 60fps then there really would be no contest. Die-hard fans of GT5 seem willing to turn a blind eye to these issues but from my perspective they are far, far too distracting. Turn 10 placed great importance on consistent visual performance and I thank them for it every time I play.

You playing with the lastest patch? I don't seem to get much tearing or fps drops on race tracks. I only get them when its on Special stage route when its raining and in cockpit mode.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Because they favour aesthetics over boring shit like, you know, a tyre model.

You realize that the tire model for Forza changed the entire feel of the physics engine in Forza 4?

Forza fills in the Need for Speed to GT5 gap. I think it does it very well.

Here we go with this crap again, Forza is pretty much as realistic as GT5 and both physics engines are comparable and have their strengths and weaknesses.

Forza Motorsport is most definitely not in a position between NFS and Gran Turismo.

Forza fills the need for a sim racer on Xbox and the same goes for GT on Playstation, nothing more and nothing less.

 

[Mascot]

You playing with the lastest patch? I don't seem to get much tearing or fps drops on race tracks. I only get them when its on Special stage route when its raining and in cockpit mode.

I've not played GT5 for a couple of weeks as my PS3 has been moved downstairs away from my racing rig for use an an emergency BR player. There was a recent patch that specifically targeted v-synch and frame drops? That's awesome news if so.

You realize that the tire model for Forza changed the entire feel of the physics engine in Forza 4?

I'm pretty sure DC was being sarcastic here, GT. I know he's a big fan of FM's physics and tyre model, as am I.

 

[Solal]

You playing with the lastest patch? I don't seem to get much tearing or fps drops on race tracks. I only get them when its on Special stage route when its raining and in cockpit mode.

Even if the recent patches makes the framerate better, there are still loads of tearing and frame drops on tracks like Monaco, Rome, kart track, rainy tracks, ...and on almost all the tracks in cockpit view.

So no: the framerate/tearing problem is not fixed at all. Far from it.

 

[GenericUser]

Forza fills in the Need for Speed to GT5 gap. I think it does it very well.

what? To me, forza feels slightly more realistic then gt5. The cars in forza have that proper weighty feeling that gt5 lacks from time to time, imo.

 

[p3tran]

You playing with the lastest patch? I don't seem to get much tearing or fps drops on race tracks. I only get them when its on Special stage route when its raining and in cockpit mode.

There is still tearing in many many occassions. Also the are framedrops.
As we said in previous page gt5 right now is in a very better condition technically than when it was released, but still far from perfect.

Its hard for gt-only players to understand, but for comparison forza series has been offering nothing but 100% SOLID 60hz locked visuals since ....2007.

I will say it again, FORZA = ZERO FRAMES LOST, ZERO FRAMES TEARED, SINCE 2007

So, switching from forza in 2010 to gt5 REALLY had an effect in the way you appreciate 60hz racers on consoles.
Gt5 just not so good on this technical level, because it is clear that (imo) the choice was about moar eye candy.

 

[Solal]

what? To me, forza feels slightly more realistic then gt5. The cars in forza have that proper weighty feeling that gt5 lacks from time to time, imo.

I sooo disagree. To me, even if Forza4 got very close to GT5 (it gets better and better when Gt does not), I feel Forza lacks the "realistic feel" of GT5.

I d say that tyre models are better in Forza but suspension and mass transfers are very far from GT5's.
Cars still seem to be floating above the road in Forza4... but I am pretty sure they will fix this in F5.

Turn10 gets things better and better with each iteration... their production skills are really impressive.
I think PD should learn from them on this.

Visually, GT5 is still king. I don't even understand how there can be a debate on this. Forza 4 still has this beautiful cartoony colors when GT5 is just so much more realistic.

When it gets to sounds though, Forza 4 destroys GT5 in every possible way... and that's a big thing!

 

[Mascot]

Visually, GT5 is still king. I don't even understand how there can be a debate on this. Forza 4 still has this beautiful cartoony colors when GT5 is just so much more realistic.

Yeah but... movement and stuff.

 

[SatansReverence]

I will say it again, FORZA = ZERO FRAMES LOST, ZERO FRAMES TEARED, SINCE 2007

Let it be noted Forza 2 had many frame rate problems.

Forza 3 is when they really targeted flawless 60fps.

Visually, GT5 is still king. I don't even understand how there can be a debate on this. Forza 4 still has this beautiful cartoony colors when GT5 is just so much more realistic.

With the right track and car combinations, sure. I can agree. But the fact that the vast majority of the cars were modelled for the PS2 does significantly bring down GT5s "graphics bar" per se. So, all things considered, FM4 > GT5 but best of the best GT5 < FM4.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Let it be noted Forza 2 had many frame rate problems.

Forza 3 is when they really targeted flawless 60fps.

Forza 2 was also the first one on a new console.

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/12233/Forza-Motorsport-2-Reaches-60-FPS-Milestone/

The above TeamXbox article says Forza 2 is a locked 60 fps.

 

[p3tran]

Let it be noted Forza 2 had many frame rate problems.

Forza 3 is when they really targeted flawless 60fps.

F2 had problems? News to me!!

Please provide a test case, something I can replicate right now that I will see framedrops/tearing, just like test case suggested for gt5 last page

 

[Solal]

Yeah but... movement and stuff.

True that.

I REALLY REALLY am annoyed with GT5 shitty framerate. I think PD should have done all the needed sacrifices to get to full 60fps....

 

[SatansReverence]

Forza 2 was also the first one on a new console.

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/12233/Forza-Motorsport-2-Reaches-60-FPS-Milestone/

The above TeamXbox article says Forza 2 is a locked 60 fps.

I know it was the first. I accepted the frame rate issues, I just thought it should be pointed out.

Nurburgring was pretty bad for it (pop in especially) if memory serves.

 

[p3tran]

I know it was the first. I accepted the frame rate issues, I just thought it should be pointed out.

Nurburgring was pretty bad for it (pop in especially) if memory serves.

I will insist on this, unless I have a recently acquired memory problem, forza 2 was locked 60, vsync'd

I have the disc nearby, if one can suggest a test scenario where its not 60 locked, its easy for me to test right now.

Maybe you are confusing the first forza on 360 with the first pgr on 360? Pgr 3 looked good and smooth, but did not have the framerate and relied on heavy bluring and other tricks when turning to maintain that smoothness

 

[Beren]

I wonder how next gen can look any better than some of these pics? some look better than real life :O

What are they going to do add, what! D: i believe the car models can't be improved anymore than that

 

[CrunchinJelly]

I wonder how next gen can look any better than some of these pics? some look better than real life :O

The pics aren't the actual game, dude.

 

[Sid]

I wonder how next gen can look any better than some of these pics? some look better than real life :O

The actual gameplay doesn't look like that.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Anyone else hoping that either Gran Turismo or Forza will get a real track creator this coming gen?

 

[Beren]

The actual gameplay doesn't look like that.

Oh i see, i hope the gameplay on next gen looks like photomode then, i am drooling looking at these pics!

This one, i have no idea if that is real or haaaaaa! HALP! O.O

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Anyone else hoping that either Gran Turismo or Forza will get a real track creator this coming gen?

I dunno if they can. People will then just create real world tracks that were missing in the games.

 

[Chance Hale]

I wonder how next gen can look any better than some of these pics? some look better than real life :O

Lol, reminds me telling my mom as a kid that the cutscenes in FFX were "realer than real life"

But yeah, if GT6 looked like photo/replay mode in-game I would be so happy, not that in-game GT5 looks poor or anything(for the most part) If GT6 isn't cross-genwith the PS4 I'll be really bummed.

 

[FordGTGuy]

I dunno if they can. People will then just create real world tracks that were missing in the games.

It depends on the assets given and the amount of creativity allowed.

No matter what you wouldn't be able to build Nurburgring in a track creator like Turn 10 or Polyphony could.

If Forge can work for Halo, why not for Forza and Gran Turismo?

 

[Perkel]

I dunno if they can. People will then just create real world tracks that were missing in the games.

They can even pd can put track that is 100% like silverstone and they can simply name it redstone

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

It depends on the assets given and the amount of creativity allowed.

No matter what you wouldn't be able to build Nurburgring in a track creator like Turn 10 or Polyphony could.

If Forge can work for Halo, why not for Forza and Gran Turismo?

I thought there would be licensing issues but apparently not (referring to the post above) so why not? These sim racers have massive potential in the sharing scene. Custom tracks, custom tunes, custom vinyls, clubs, photos, etc. Both teams should capitalise on this with their community features.

 

[p3tran]

I know it was the first. I accepted the frame rate issues, I just thought it should be pointed out.

Nurburgring was pretty bad for it (pop in especially) if memory serves.

So I just popped forza2 on nurburgring with a merc slr just to make sure of my memory status..

Yeap, 60hz locked allright, no tearing in sight and no pop ins.

Probably you got mixed with some other game..

Ps. After f2, i popped f4 and did same car/track, and fuck me sideways if forza 2's way of breaking traction and regaining traction doesnt feel more intuitive than f4's. (both on joypad, all assists and aids off)
I dont know where you are taking this "easy to approach by casuals" thing dear turn 10, but as a friendly warning you better watch it!

 

[Metalmurphy]

Is it possible that they are 2d textures... which turn 3d depending on the distance?

(I own none of the two games, it just that something seems off about these mountains at distance)

They're just low poly mountains with textures taken directly from photos with poor bump mapping, but its not a 2D background.

I have said it before but PD should really add a "photographer mode" in a future GT game. You can be a photographer for races and have to take pictures of stuff that happens at a race as it happens in real time and get scored on the quality of your pics and what's in them. More points for a good picture of a crash for example. Then you could use photo-travel locations for special photo shoot levels where you have to take a pic for the cover of "insert real world car magazine here".

Maybe it can be apart of a revamped single player campaign since they really need to scrap the current one.

It would be a great addition to an expanded spectator mode.