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[Wax Free Vanilla]

Is it possible that they are 2d textures... which turn 3d depending on the distance?

(I own none of the two games, it just that something seems off about these mountains at distance)

it's like the grand canyon in gt4, a simple 3d shape pasted with low res textures

 

[SatansReverence]

I will insist on this, unless I have a recently acquired memory problem, forza 2 was locked 60, vsync'd

I have the disc nearby, if one can suggest a test scenario where its not 60 locked, its easy for me to test right now.

Maybe you are confusing the first forza on 360 with the first pgr on 360? Pgr 3 looked good and smooth, but did not have the framerate and relied on heavy bluring and other tricks when turning to maintain that smoothness

From memory (haven't got a working FM2 myself) Nurburgring with a pack of cars had frame rate issues and FM2 in general had pop in issues which caused more frame rate issues.

 

[p3tran]

From memory (haven't got a working FM2 myself) Nurburgring with a pack of cars had frame rate issues and FM2 in general had pop in issues which caused more frame rate issues.

nope.

I just did a nur full grid of R class cars, so that very high speeds would help bring out the problem.
I stayed at the back of the bunch of cars so I can have a full pack ahead of me, and even in the worst corkscrew turns or the highest speed ones with elevation changes etc,
forza 2 did not tear a frame or have anything pop up. then I started bumping a bit the other cars to strain test even more. nothing.

rock steady I would say

I guess you could be running the game from a worn-out dvd to have popups. or -back then- from a ready to die overheating 360

 

[Xanadu]

it's like the grand canyon in gt4, a simple 3d shape pasted with low res textures

wonder what they can do on new hardware, gonna be some crazy stuff

 

[velociraptor]

wonder what they can do on new hardware, gonna be some crazy stuff

Given how impressive the GT games on the PS2, I was honestly not impressed with visuals of GT5 on the PS3. Final product looked crap. GT5 still looks like the best console racer out and it's over 5 years old. Pretty sad that PD didn't really do much on the PS3.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Given how impressive the GT games on the PS2, I was honestly not impressed with visuals of GT5 on the PS3. Final product looked crap. GT5 still looks like the best console racer out and it's over 5 years old. Pretty sad that PD didn't really do much on the PS3.

It does. If tyre resolution is all you care about.

Spoiler

LOL, Nurburgring with dynamic time of day makes GT5 look like a previous gen game at higher resolution

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

wonder what they can do on new hardware, gonna be some crazy stuff

 

[brotkasten]

Maybe it's just me, but the reflections don't look realistic at all. I don't get what's supposed to be so impressive about it.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Maybe it's just me, but the reflections don't look realistic at all. I don't get what's supposed to be so impressive about it.

Reflections are too clear. Makes the car look like a mirror.

 

[velociraptor]

It does. If tyre resolution is all you care about.

Spoiler

LOL, Nurburgring with dynamic time of day makes GT5 look like a previous gen game at higher resolution

GT5 isn't consistent in it's visuals.

GT5P has a much better IQ than GT5, which looks like someone smeared vaseline over the TV.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

GT5 isn't consistent in it's visuals.

GT5P has a much better IQ than GT5, which looks like someone smeared vaseline over the TV.

Its probably because GT5 tries to do more things. More cars, dynamic lighting on some tracks, weather, 3D etc.

 

[Mascot]

Its probably because GT5 tries to do more things. More cars, dynamic lighting on some tracks, weather, 3D etc.

By 'more things' do you mean 'too much'..? A case of ambition outstripping hardware limitations or programming talent, perhaps?

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

By 'more things' do you mean 'too much'..? A case of ambition outstripping hardware limitations or programming talent, perhaps?

I would rather have PD being ambitious than conservative. When devs get conservative I get sequelitis.

 

[RankoSD]

GT5 isn't consistent in it's visuals.

GT5P has a much better IQ than GT5, which looks like someone smeared vaseline over the TV.

It's easy to be consistent when you're low on content.

Also I don't agree that 5 looks worse than Prologue, the only downgrade that I have noticed were the shadows, but in the same way there are more stuff that 5 does better...

 

[SunhiLegend]

GT5 isn't consistent in it's visuals.

GT5P has a much better IQ than GT5, which looks like someone smeared vaseline over the TV.

Really?

Prologue may have better IQ but GT5 certainly doesn't have terrible IQ like you're saying. It's still one of the most technically impressive games this gen.

 

[Mascot]

I would rather have PD being ambitious than conservative. When devs get conservative I get sequelitis.

Ambition is fine so long as it's realistic. Most sensible developers work within known hardware limitations and available resources. For GT5 to be as late as it was (years late, don't forget) yet still be a mess at launch, and still have significant graphical issues to this day (inconsistent frame rate and screen tearing)... Well, not many developers would be cut as much slack as Polyphony have.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Ambition is fine so long as it's realistic. Most sensible developers work within known hardware limitations and available resources. For GT5 to be as late as it was (years late, don't forget) yet still be a mess at launch, and still have significant graphical issues to this day (inconsistent frame rate and screen tearing)... Well, not many developers would be cut as much slack as Polyphony have.

You act like the game is completely broken. It's not. In fact, it's near flawless when playing.

 

[Mascot]

You act like the game is completely broken. It's not. In fact, it's near flawless when playing.

Come off it, where did I say it was completely broken? It's a fine game. But even the most die-hard GT fan cannot deny the v-synch and frame rate issues. They are a provable fact, not an opinion.

 

[p3tran]

You act like the game is completely broken. It's not. In fact, it's near flawless when playing.

its very far away from flawless, but lets all hope that GT6 will be very fucking near to flawless!

8)

 

[jaypah]

You act like the game is completely broken. It's not. In fact, it's near flawless when playing.

Yup. I hate everything about GT5 outside of the actual driving. But I put up with all the other shit because sitting behind my wheel (+3D when the mood strikes) is fucking amazing. I still play it every other day and I'm still learning stuff from it. It has been the best value for me this Gen, hands down. Sometimes I can't believe I only paid 60 bucks for it.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Come off it, where did I say it was completely broken? It's a fine game. But even the most die-hard GT fan cannot deny the v-synch and frame rate issues. They are a provable fact, not an opinion.

Who has denied that it exists? People have just said that with each new update they've improved the framerate and decreased the tearing. Does it still have problems in both areas? Sure, but it's nothing like it was when it launched.

 

[Mascot]

Who has denied that it exists? People have just said that with each new update they've improved the framerate and decreased the tearing. Does it still have problems in both areas? Sure, but it's nothing like it was when it launched.

Well, outright denial isn't possible, perhaps, but it just seems like v-synch and frame drops get conveniently glossed over when some people gush about how beautiful and impressive GT5's visuals are. I dunno, maybe some people can ignore them. For me they are a big distraction.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Ambition is fine so long as it's realistic. Most sensible developers work within known hardware limitations and available resources. For GT5 to be as late as it was (years late, don't forget) yet still be a mess at launch, and still have significant graphical issues to this day (inconsistent frame rate and screen tearing)... Well, not many developers would be cut as much slack as Polyphony have.

I didn't mind GT5 being so late because it probably would have been worse without those delays and prologue helped ease the wait. GT5 used to have significant frame rate and tearing issues but thats not the case anymore. After countless patches the frame rate and tearing has been improved drastically. The reason most developers would not be given as much slack as PD is because most developers don't have series that can sell 10 million a pop.

The reason I allow GT5 is because as far as I know its the only racing this gen on consoles to have surface variation, weather variation, and day and night cycles. You will be lucky to get one of those in a racing game these days. Yes the features are not implemented properly (not available for all tracks etc.) but its better than nothing especially when PD do it; they can achieve soem amazing results.

Doing the 24hr nurburgring race was by far my best racing game memory this generation if not of all time. I am glad PD gave it a try instead of putting it off.

 

[brotkasten]

Who has denied that it exists? People have just said that with each new update they've improved the framerate and decreased the tearing. Does it still have problems in both areas? Sure, but it's nothing like it was when it launched.

Some of their "fixes" really irk me, though. Removing standing starts throughout the simgle player is just completely stupid. I mention it, because I suppose it was done to increase the frame rate during the starts.

 

[Mascot]

I didn't mind GT5 being so late because it probably would have been worse without those delays and prologue helped ease the wait. GT5 used to have significant frame rate and tearing issues but thats not the case anymore. After countless patches the frame rate and tearing has been improved drastically. The reason most developers would not be given as much slack as PD is because most developers don't have series that can sell 10 million a pop.

The reason I allow GT5 is because as far as I know its the only racing this gen on consoles to have surface variation, weather variation, and day and night cycles. You will be lucky to get one of those in a racing game these days. Yes the features are not implemented properly (not available for all tracks etc.) but its better than nothing especially when PD do it; they can achieve soem amazing results.

Doing the 24hr nurburgring race was by far my best racing game memory this generation if not of all time. I am glad PD gave it a try instead of putting it off.

Totally agree with everything you say apart from including the 'badly implemented' bits. I'd much prefer those were patched in when working properly, or left for the next gen. I gave Turn 10 a similar hard time about the half-assed drag racing (and soccer, and bowling) in FM4, which for me added nothing whatsoever to the game, and actually made me feel less about the overall package.

Totally agree with you about the Nurb 24 hr races in GT5, too. There's not a better driving experience available on consoles.

 

[Emwitus]

I wouldn't trade in the so called "half hazard" Weather + 24hr nurb experience for anything. I'm happy they did it as is on gt5 rather than wait to release it on gt6...because you know, if i hated the experience , i could easily ignore that mode and just race in normal conditions since its an option in the game.

 

[Izayoi]

GT5 looks amazing in photomode and replays, but when you're actually playing it looks like shit compared to Forza.

I ended up being really, really disappointed by the visuals after all of the hype on GAF (GIFs, etc). Kind of shitty.

I'm not sure what driving model I like better, GT5 is definitely a lot more "stiff" than Forza, but does that make it more realistic? I'm not entirely sure. Forza is more fun to actually play, at least right now. Maybe that will change after I spend some more time with GT5.

I really like collecting cars and the career mode in GT5, although I wish there was wider array of manufacturers. I recognize that it's a Japanese game, but it seems almost half of the car count came from a handful of Japanese manufacturers, which is kind of disappointing to be honest.

I guess I should probably get used to it though, as I'm not buying a 720 just for Forza, which means I'm stuck with GT from here on out.

 

[p3tran]

Some of their "fixes" really irk me, though. Removing standing starts throught the simgle player is just completely stupid. I mention it, because I suppose it was done to increase the frame rate during the starts.

forza on the other hand chose to swap model cars with other that have less interior details
instead of cutting standing starts, for the same reason.
AND they both could not use the high detail assets they created because both consoles didnt have enough juice!

see? each one of them made the compromises he thought best in order to run as closer to the "vision" but inside the limits of the hardware

thats why we should all fuck both ps360, and tell/fund pd and t10 to make us one pc game each

 

[Mascot]

I wouldn't trade in the so called "half hazard" Weather + 24hr nurb experience for anything. I'm happy they did it as is on gt5 rather than wait to release it on gt6...because you know, if i hated the experience , i could easily ignore that mode and just race in normal conditions since its an option in the game.

Unfortunately the drag races were compulsory in FM4 if you wanted to complete the full career grid. Jesus, they were fucking awful. Any event where the load time is longer than actual time spent playing it... Fuck. How ridiculous.

 

[shinnn]

I think FM4 looks good, GT5 just looks real.

Wondering if the Turn10 target is to be real, or just to be beauty.

 

[p3tran]

Any event where the load time is longer than actual time spent playing it... Fuck. How ridiculous.

haha the same is true for real dragstrip races though.. months of preps for just 10"

I liked it better that forza had the drag races, that if it didnt have them.
of course, room for proper improvement versus allocation of time-resources etc etc

 

[Business]

Maybe it's just me, but the reflections don't look realistic at all. I don't get what's supposed to be so impressive about it.

Yeah I agree they don't look realistic, maybe it's just to boast about these clouds? What's impressive it's the clouds and the shadows they cast on the terrain, if that's real time of course. I wouldn't worry too much about GT lighting though.

 

[Windom Earle]

For me Forza will always be the copycat, the wannabe... GT is just the original.
Also the battle of the school teacher Greenawalt vs. the enthusiast Kaz.

That said, Forza has come a long way from the crappy 30fps Forza 1 to the newest iteration.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

haha the same is true for real dragstrip races though.. months of preps for just 10"

I liked it better that forza had the drag races, that if it didnt have them.
of course, room for proper improvement versus allocation of time-resources etc etc

That realism lol.

GT5 looks amazing in photomode and replays, but when you're actually playing it looks like shit compared to Forza.

This is not true at all.

For me Forza will always be the copycat, the wannabe... GT is just the original.
Also the battle of the school teacher Greenawalt vs. the enthusiast Kaz.

That said, Forza has come a long way from the crappy 30fps Forza 1 to the newest iteration.

I get were your coming from, its pretty clear Forza was trying to copy GT and capitalise on the market but that doesn't count as a negative towards the game. Competition is always good.

 

[Izayoi]

For me Forza will always be the copycat, the wannabe... GT is just the original.

Uh... Forza isn't really like GT at all, outside of being a racing game. They don't play even remotely the same.

This is not true at all.

But... it is? My very first impression after getting into a race for the first time in GT5 was "This looks terrible."

Maybe it would've been different had I not been hyped up by misleading GIFs on GAF, but I've never seen anything during actual gameplay that comes even remotely close to the GIFs spammed on GAF constantly.

 

[shinnn]

For me Forza will always be the copycat, the wannabe... GT is just the original.
Also the battle of the school teacher Greenawalt vs. the enthusiast Kaz.

That said, Forza has come a long way from the crappy 30fps Forza 1 to the newest iteration.

Some way for me. And the copycat turned out miles better than the original. Its like the Winning Eleven vs FIFA.

The japanese guy got obsolete. The western guy took the crown. The photoshoped faces still looks better though.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

For me Forza will always be the copycat, the wannabe... GT is just the original.
Also the battle of the school teacher Greenawalt vs. the enthusiast Kaz.

That said, Forza has come a long way from the crappy 30fps Forza 1 to the newest iteration.

Also I have to say I hate that Dan Greenawalt guy.

But... it is? My very first impression after getting into a race for the first time in GT5 was "This looks terrible."

Maybe it would've been different had I not been hyped up by misleading GIFs on GAF, but I've never seen anything during actual gameplay that comes even remotely close to the GIFs spammed on GAF constantly.

You probably have a bad setup because it looks fine on my tv. Maybe your using the standard cars lol.

Some way for me. And the copycat turned out miles better than the original. Its like the Winning Eleven vs FIFA.

The japanese guy got obsolete. The western guy took the crown. The photoshoped faces still looks better though.

Japanese guy got obsolete? lol GT5 has sold 9+ million....how much has Forza sold?
Far from the situation your describing. Besides EA played dirty. Everyone knows PES was better in the PS2 days.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Hope we get arsehole Dan back this time around, modest Dan was informative but not nearly as entertaining.

 

[Lion Heart]

"obsolete" loool

New low in this thread, thats quite the feat. Guys, COD is obsolete, Killzone took the crown.

 

[jaypah]

Hope we get arsehole Dan back this time around, modest Dan was informative but not nearly as entertaining.

As a guy who hasn't put much time into Forza and plays GT regularly I absolutely love how Dan pisses off fanboys. They take his words so personal! I'm sure more so than any person that actually works for Sony.

 

[Mascot]

forza on the other hand chose to swap model cars with other that have less interior details
instead of cutting standing starts, for the same reason.
AND they both could not use the high detail assets they created because both consoles didnt have enough juice!

see? each one of them made the compromises he thought best in order to run as closer to the "vision" but inside the limits of the hardware

Yeah, both developers battled hardware and resource limitations, but I prefer some of the decisions Dan made over those made by Kaz. Their individual visions probably differ so greatly its amazing both games turned out as similar as they did.
For Dan v-synched 60fps was of paramount importance, more so than high levels of AA and sharper image quality, but frame rate was obviously not the main priority for Kaz. I think this gave PD a lot more freedom in what could be included in GT5, but inevitably led to quality issues. Turn 10 realised early on that night and weather would compromise the graphics too much, so dropped (delayed until next-gen?) development of those features. Similarly, Kaz placed great emphasis on the sheer number of cars and lavished more attention on some more than others, whereas Dan used fewer cars, but all with the same quality of modelling and all with fully-realised dashboards and cockpit views.
The list goes on.

Different men, different cultures, different visions.

Different games.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

As a guy who hasn't put much time into Forza and plays GT regularly I absolutely love how Dan pisses off fanboys. They take his words so personal! I'm sure more so than any person that actually works for Sony.

Hes an asshole. Whether he's paid to be an asshole or he is naturally one is the question.

Lets look back at his memorable moments:

“We watched the Sony press conference and we were like, OK so we just brought what we believe firmly is the best racing game ever made, and our competition didn’t show up. So now you can see why I’m fairly bullish. I hate to sound so cocky but the truth is the stars have aligned. I don’t know how else to say it.

“Kazunori Yamauchi-san is someone I have tremendous respect for. I have tremendous respect for the work of team, but I am a GT fan. I bought my first car that I stressed out about buying because I played it in Gran Turismo. I’m in this industry because of that game.

“That said, as a fan of the series, he hasn’t done anything for me in years. So in many ways he’s handing the baton to me. He probably doesn’t see it that way, but I do, because I believe that I’m now taking what he ignited in me as a passion, and taking it to a much, much, much broader level. I’m not saying it’s necessarily larger yet, but definitely broader, younger, older, men, women. So I’m really excited.”

And, via Joystiq,

“So, props to Kazunori Yamauchi-san and the PS1 team. That said, I feel that he’s passed us the baton. Perhaps he hasn’t meant to, but we have taken the genre to new levels and they’ve stopped evolving the genre. So again, tremendous respect to him, but I’d say the differentiator is they’re old school. The emperor’s naked, and I don’t want to, you know, I don’t want to slap him around, but no game competes [with] us right now.”

…and Xbox360Achievements:

“I play a lot of racing games, including PC racing games and I have not seen anything that is even within years of what we’re delivering here.”

The last quote pretty much sums up Dan to me..... a joke.
I do agree he is more entertaining when he's like that though.

 

[Izayoi]

You probably have a bad setup because it looks fine on my tv. Maybe your using the standard cars lol.

I can assure you my setup is anything but "bad".

Besides, I don't think a setup has anything to do with horrible textures, extensive use of billboards in place of actual models, ridiculous tearing problems and an unstable at best framerate. The only things that look even half-decent are the lighting and car models. GT5 is very pretty during replays and in photomode, but that's about it. I know I shouldn't be expecting much from ancient hardware, but that doesn't change the fact that I wound up being incredibly disappointed by how the game looked after all of the hype here.

 

[Reiko]

Yeah, both developers battled hardware and resource limitations, but I prefer some of the decisions Dan made over those made by Kaz. Their individual visions probably differ so greatly its amazing both games turned out as similar as they did.
For Dan v-synched 60fps was of paramount importance, more so than high levels of AA and sharper image quality, but frame rate was obviously not the main priority for Kaz. I think this gave PD a lot more freedom in what could be included in GT5, but inevitably led to quality issues. Turn 10 realised early on that night and weather would compromise the graphics too much, so dropped (delayed until next-gen?) development of those features. Similarly, Kaz placed great emphasis on the sheer number of cars and lavished more attention on some more than others, whereas Dan used fewer cars, but all with the same quality of modelling and all with fully-realised dashboards and cockpit views.
The list goes on.

Different men, different cultures, different visions.

Different games.

Kinda weird Kaz chose to go that direction, GT4 was as smooth as Forza 4 IMO.

 

[HeliosT10]

I love this thread so much, it's always the first one I take a look at when I visit gaf

If there's one thing I think we can all agree on, it's that the world of gaming is certainly a better place with these two great series going!

To the guys who've posted some amazing Forza motorsport pics, I really hope you're entering our weekly photo contests, some of your shots are stunning.

 

[Metalmurphy]

I can assure you my setup is anything but "bad".

Besides, I don't think a setup has anything to do with horrible textures, extensive use of billboards in place of actual models, ridiculous tearing problems and an unstable at best framerate. The only thing that looks even half-decent are the lighting and car models.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQO6JHZl-Cs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAFPPg0OCPI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9s_G1ph_vA

"like shit" when you're actually playing! Specially when compared to Forza!

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

Really?

Prologue may have better IQ but GT5 certainly doesn't have terrible IQ like you're saying. It's still one of the most technically impressive games this gen.

 

[Izayoi]

"like shit" when you're actually playing! Specially when compared to Forza!

Yeah, I know when I play games it's watching a replay.

??????

 

[Mascot]

Kinda weird Kaz chose to go that direction, GT4 was a smooth as Forza 4 IMO.

Yep, it might be rose-tinted glasses but I honestly can't remember any frame drops and screen tearing in GT3 or GT4. Maybe PD thought they could unlock more power from the PS3 than they actually could (like a lot of other developers) and so set their goals a little too high early on? Who knows.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Yeah, I know when I play games it's watching a replay.

??????

Thats not a replay bro thats gameplay. I don't even know what your trying to say there tbh.

This is a replay: