GT5.
But definitely not in the rain.
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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35
- Thread starter bishoptl
- Start date
But definitely not in the rain.
Windom Earle
Member
Sorry guys, but next gen games will not have perfect IQ either. PS4 will be better than Durango if the GPU rumors are true though.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Rain is decent but is a bit pixelated.
It looks like crap. That Ferrari game on PS3 had better rain effects.
Other stuff is the road doesn't look wet or form puddles like PGR4.
And the obvious one: No water drop shader on the body of the cars.
You could tell the rain aspect was rushed.
I might as well join in since I play both (and enjoy both).
Graphics
GT5 has the highest highs and the lowest lows for me.. the odd fleeting seconds of brilliance is offset by some pretty ropey textures and lack of track/scenery detail.. However that's all forgiveable, it's the screen tearing and obvious graphics over a rock solid 60fps that is the nail in the coffin for me
FM4 suffers from dropping LOD and AA to maintain a steady 60fps and it's graphical bar is defintely placed much lower then GT5 for spot comparison, however it seems that rather then blow the graphics budget on the cars, they seem to have spread it around, so tracks/scenery seem more often then not really well balanced for a good effect.
I really find the AA poor in FM4 when in most races, it's so much cleaner when hotlapping, and whilst I commend them for putting framerate ahead of AA, I would gladly sacrifice other graphical things to maintain 4xMSAA.
Physics
GT5 has a decent enough set of high level physics, by which I mean the general feel of the car is good, and the track interaction/feedback is excellent, it's certainly enough to fool most into thinking it's top notch. Where it falls down for me is that it lacks some obvious drivetrain/tyre physics that actually detract massively from the actual driving. For example, wheel spin away in an FWD or RWD car and it just tracks perfectly.. Then you realise that actually the FFB doesn't seem to have much coming from the actual tyres, the feeling of grip/slip in FWD cars is rather poor, and clearly you can tell by the tuning options that tyre deformation, pressure, width, etc are just rather absent. I love casually driving in GT5, but I hate hotlapping because when you want the feedback of what the tyres are doing in relation to the tyre physics, it's rather vacant
Forza is the other way around almost, it has quite indepth tyre physics, pressure, width, height etc are all there, and the grip/slip and torque behaviour is all there in the feedback making it great for hotlapping (for me at least). Where it falls down is that the high level general feel is decent enough and has improved in each iteration, but it's still not quite at GT5's level. And of course, the 'steering aids' and other little tweaks are quite understandable and rather overplayed IMO, but I can't figure out why they don't just mask them (as I suspect similar tweaks are in GT).
Sound
GT5 has a few decent sounding cars, but overall, Forza just has decent audio 90% of the time, it's much more consistent.. I can honestly say that as much as I like GT, the number of vacuum cleaners employed in the majority of cars is terrible.
Gameplay/Presentation
Another area FM has the more consistent and cohesive menu/gameplay by a country mile.. But it's career is really 1 dimensional.. very little variety and what variety there is proves to be really limited. GT has the poorest menu system by a mile, but it has more variety which is almost offset by the pointless game mechanics of servicing and having to earn paint chips..
Customisation/Tuning
GT is OK, but Forza obviously has made the most progress in this field (and probably explains some graphics issues), the ability to make your car your own is great, the first thing I do with a car is slap on personalised plates and make a car my own... in GT, the drastic lack of customisation keeps the game at a distance, I don't feel like I 'own' the cars in the same way.
Oddly, I would say that on balance, both are great games, and I stick by addage that GT has the highest highs and lowest lows with Forza being far more consistent in all areas which makes it IMO the better game, which is reflected by the vast majority of reviews, so I see no reason to post a million images and claim that somehow that negates the rest of the games foibles...
Graphics
GT5 has the highest highs and the lowest lows for me.. the odd fleeting seconds of brilliance is offset by some pretty ropey textures and lack of track/scenery detail.. However that's all forgiveable, it's the screen tearing and obvious graphics over a rock solid 60fps that is the nail in the coffin for me
FM4 suffers from dropping LOD and AA to maintain a steady 60fps and it's graphical bar is defintely placed much lower then GT5 for spot comparison, however it seems that rather then blow the graphics budget on the cars, they seem to have spread it around, so tracks/scenery seem more often then not really well balanced for a good effect.
I really find the AA poor in FM4 when in most races, it's so much cleaner when hotlapping, and whilst I commend them for putting framerate ahead of AA, I would gladly sacrifice other graphical things to maintain 4xMSAA.
Physics
GT5 has a decent enough set of high level physics, by which I mean the general feel of the car is good, and the track interaction/feedback is excellent, it's certainly enough to fool most into thinking it's top notch. Where it falls down for me is that it lacks some obvious drivetrain/tyre physics that actually detract massively from the actual driving. For example, wheel spin away in an FWD or RWD car and it just tracks perfectly.. Then you realise that actually the FFB doesn't seem to have much coming from the actual tyres, the feeling of grip/slip in FWD cars is rather poor, and clearly you can tell by the tuning options that tyre deformation, pressure, width, etc are just rather absent. I love casually driving in GT5, but I hate hotlapping because when you want the feedback of what the tyres are doing in relation to the tyre physics, it's rather vacant
Forza is the other way around almost, it has quite indepth tyre physics, pressure, width, height etc are all there, and the grip/slip and torque behaviour is all there in the feedback making it great for hotlapping (for me at least). Where it falls down is that the high level general feel is decent enough and has improved in each iteration, but it's still not quite at GT5's level. And of course, the 'steering aids' and other little tweaks are quite understandable and rather overplayed IMO, but I can't figure out why they don't just mask them (as I suspect similar tweaks are in GT).
Sound
GT5 has a few decent sounding cars, but overall, Forza just has decent audio 90% of the time, it's much more consistent.. I can honestly say that as much as I like GT, the number of vacuum cleaners employed in the majority of cars is terrible.
Gameplay/Presentation
Another area FM has the more consistent and cohesive menu/gameplay by a country mile.. But it's career is really 1 dimensional.. very little variety and what variety there is proves to be really limited. GT has the poorest menu system by a mile, but it has more variety which is almost offset by the pointless game mechanics of servicing and having to earn paint chips..
Customisation/Tuning
GT is OK, but Forza obviously has made the most progress in this field (and probably explains some graphics issues), the ability to make your car your own is great, the first thing I do with a car is slap on personalised plates and make a car my own... in GT, the drastic lack of customisation keeps the game at a distance, I don't feel like I 'own' the cars in the same way.
Oddly, I would say that on balance, both are great games, and I stick by addage that GT has the highest highs and lowest lows with Forza being far more consistent in all areas which makes it IMO the better game, which is reflected by the vast majority of reviews, so I see no reason to post a million images and claim that somehow that negates the rest of the games foibles...
And the v-sync tear on the wiper... Ugh. Still, I love that rain is in the game and the low fidelity of the effect doesn't detract from the experience. (IMO)
Thanks for this write-up.
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
Red Chocobo
Banned
That's what is known as overkill.
Who races cars in a monsoon?
Who races cars in a monsoon?
Agreed, looks fantastic. Sony's F1 game had great rain too.
Red Chocobo
Banned
Any track would close in those conditions. I think it's unrealistic to be honest.
Goldrusher
Member
...at 30 fps.
And Ferrari The Race Experience (lets say GOTY edition of Ferrari Challenge) is available on PAL PSStore for peanuts these days.
Buy it and support the publisher, if you have a wheel give it a chance, please.
And see PGR4. It's not a coincidence. You want higher fidelity? There must be sacrifice.
...until November. Then the excuses run out.
Red Chocobo
Banned
Although Ferrari Challenge and PGR rain looks good. It's pre-baked.
GT5's screen droplets are real-time. Which is damn impressive, even if it doesn't look as good.
GT5's screen droplets are real-time. Which is damn impressive, even if it doesn't look as good.
AstroNut325
Member
DAT RAIN!
THAT is what I call rain! I hope we get that in GT6 or at least in GT7.
THAT is what I call rain! I hope we get that in GT6 or at least in GT7.
You could tell the rain aspect was built around immaculately modelled cars, physics, particle effects, lighting system etc etc. That would be an accurate assessment.
Like you said.
gutterboy44
Member
Any rain effect or sexy rain textures are utterly worthless if it doesn't render a dry line or allow for different grip levels across the wet surface. One big perfectly wet racing surface is so dull to me. If the surface is uniformly wet and slippery it is no different than racing in the dry with shitty tires.
One of the biggest thrills with rain racing is the transitional periods. How long can you stay out on slicks? Is the racing line drying, maybe get risky and throw the slicks back on while others are still timidly on intermediates. Those are the moments that are exciting in real racing and I would love for a game to implement rain at the meaningful physics level first, then worry about all the widow dressing.
One of the biggest thrills with rain racing is the transitional periods. How long can you stay out on slicks? Is the racing line drying, maybe get risky and throw the slicks back on while others are still timidly on intermediates. Those are the moments that are exciting in real racing and I would love for a game to implement rain at the meaningful physics level first, then worry about all the widow dressing.
We'll still get 30fps racing games with next gen, no doubt about it.
Doesn't rFactor 2 do most of this?
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
GT5 does have progressive raining levels (0-100%) iirc and the rain does dry but its uniformly across eh track.
SolidSnakex
Member
I'm pretty sure that this was a goal for GT5. I'm not sure if they just ran out of time or if that was one of those things they had to cut due to ram limitations. I guess we'll find out with GT6.
SunhiLegend
Member
I agree, I thought F1 2012 was great in that regard. I love the way the game handles dynamic weather, you can visibly see the dry line while the track is drying up, and trying to guess when to pit for slicks or wet tyres is great, just like in F1.
I know the game gets a lot of hate on gaf but I honestly thought it was one of the best F1 games I've played, really looking forward to the next-gen version.
Betta Lines
Member
les papillons sexuels
Banned
for some reason, the quality of the water effect looks better then anything else in the game.
Worst 60 bucks I ever spent :-( and I really wanted to enjoy it. The glitches, wonky physics and game freezes just killed it for me.
Watch this gameplay and tell me if you still think the rain solution in GT5 is a satisfying one in comparison. Note, the subtle rain giving way to a full-on storm by the end of the drive. If you've ever played this game with the wheel, you'd be able to appreciate the subtlety of the shifts in handling.
gutterboy44
Member
I think F1 2011 had the same dry line and rain mechanics as 2012. It wasn't perfect but it was one of the better attempts. I haven't played with any wet weather stuff in rFactor 2 yet. I pretty much just race the Lotus 49 around old Spa.
His point isn't exactly invalid. GT5 rain problem is mostly lack of droplets on car and low quality on windshield (and sides) Droplets do move according to speed and G also amount of them is also connected to amount of rain and if you are going after someone.
Next-Gen rain in GT6 will be amazing imo.
If it's a question of is it visually impressive, I think it's invalid on the grounds that the spray off the car utterly breaks the visuals in GT5 (the dramatic "blocking" of anything behind the effect mask.) While the raindrops in the windshield move realistically, they're obviously squares, and simply don't look realistic unless you're actually squinting or watching a destructively low-resolution video of gameplay. I agree that there's novelty, but there's a reason that method hasn't been used and will never be used again unless there's some sort of necessity to it: In game, it simply looks bad. There have been any number of games which came out long before GT5 which had better looking, and better implemented, rain effects.
(This doesn't somehow make GT5 bad, it's just one of an unfortunate number of half-baked and poorly implemented elements that make an otherwise great game feel simply "good.")
[Edit: I realized I played GT5 during the launch window, but not after some of the later patches, so my comment is probably out of date if the notes on the weather effects update mean what I think they do.]
Stillmatic
Member
Excluding a bit of pixelation I prefer the rain in GT5, cockpit view anyway. Outside of the cockpit they have a bit of work to do (puddles, rain drops hitting any surface like the bodywork etc.)
Red Chocobo
Banned
Because you can never gave too many GT5 gifs:
Because you can never gave too many GT5 gifs:
Sweet merciful yes.
brotkasten
Member
Now that I see the crash gif, did the sparks get cut from the final GT5 version?
Red Chocobo
Banned
They are there if you grind the wall. But they are tonned down from the old trailers (After everyone complained).
Metalmurphy
Member
You still get them from the chassis as well when going over curbs.
The best thing about GT5 rain is that it's actually affected by Gforces, no other game has done this before. If only they were higher rez it would have been soooo goood.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
I have no idea what race series you watch but pretty much every touring car and GT race continue unless there is a track blocking crash...
Where's the race stoppage here? and no, a yellow flag is not a red flag.
Seriously, anything, anything at all to defend GT5...
I hate to bring up old message-board war-cries (just kidding, I actually love it), do you remember the various claims by the crazier GT enthusiasts over the years?
"Crashes aren't in GT because Polyphony wants to make them perfect. If they're in there, they'll be better than anything you've ever seen. Why do you want to crash if you're racing?"
"Weather isn't in there because Polyphony wants to make it perfect. If it's in there, it'll be better than anything you've ever seen. Would you want to drive in shitty weather? That's not realistic."
"If they say it'll be that many cars, they'll all be full detail. there's no way Polyphony would half ass something like that. It'd be crazy."
Red Chocobo
Banned
One thing that I think gets overlooked is the drivers.
Watching them in GT5 replays is almost hypnotic.
Watching them in GT5 replays is almost hypnotic.
Gouda Jouji
Member
One thing that I think gets overlooked is the drivers.
Watching them in GT5 replays is almost hypnotic.
The one thing I'd really like for GT6 is an interior replay camera like this for ALL cars. There are a few cars with cameras like that, but most have them focused on the driver only.
And hopefully the animations would be less... stiff. I can't see them improving much if GT6 is on PS3 though.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
I wasn't a member back than but I have seen many similar comments elsewhere. It's just embarrassing.
One thing that I think gets overlooked is the drivers.
Watching them in GT5 replays is almost hypnotic.
I've always hated the driver model in Forza. When taking photos you often have to try and hide it. It's frankly hideous.
lol It's hilarious when you think about it.
Red Chocobo
Banned
That race should have been stopped.
Hardcore racing. You either race or you don't.
I've seen far more brutal crashes in dry weather.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
No, it shouldn't have. That's why they have wet tyres and they were all on slicks because the rain had only just started.
Like so?
Damn I love V8 Supercars. All the speed and power of Nascar but with the amazing action of BTCC.
Damn man, give it up we get it already, you love GT5 and there must be no fault in the game...
The games you should criticize the most are the ones you love the most that way they know how to improve. I can sit here for 30 minutes and list all the crap that's pissed me off about Forza over the years.