Support NeoGAF

[Reiko]

No, it shouldn't have. That's why they have wet tyres and they were all on slicks because the rain had only just started.



Like so?

Damn I love V8 Supercars. All the speed and power of Nascar but with the amazing action of BTCC.

Ouch. That made me cringe.

Badass how he walked away from that.

 

[SatansReverence]

Ouch. That made me cringe.

Badass how he walked away from that.

All we need now is a time machine and than racing in real life will be just as easy as on consoles!

Man, after watching some videos on youtube, how come neither Forza or GT have Bathurst? I just don't get it. It can't be a license problem because we would know that by now and I know GT6 will likely have it but how the hell has it taken so long?

 

[Dibbz]

Now that I see the crash gif, did the sparks get cut from the final GT5 version?

Nope, it's still there

Speaking of wet tracks. I was pleasantly surprised to find that the racing line in the wet in GT5 is actually very slippery because of the rubber, as you'd expect. Very cool touch. Hopefully they will implement proper drying of the track though.

 

[soundscream]

All we need now is a time machine and than racing in real life will be just as easy as on consoles!

Man, after watching some videos on youtube, how come neither Forza or GT have Bathurst? I just don't get it. It can't be a license problem because we would know that by now and I know GT6 will likely have it but how the hell has it taken so long?

Well Forza 1 had Blue Mountains
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQhBwdlmAa0

 

[Lysander91]

Wall of text

You summed up exactly how I feel about these two games. I play them both, I like them both, but Forza just nudges it out. I go back to GT for the features that Forza doesn't have like rally races, night races, and races in rain, but when I just want to do a regualr race on asphalt I play Forza.

 

[Mobius 1]

On the subject, I miss Rio's track from Forza 1. It was really nicely done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jP9mWb35Ko

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

I probably did say "PD am gods" at some point during the GT5 hype though, that was the 1% lol.

Maybe you were right and the 800 fossils they planted in GT5 are a test of faith.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Maybe you were right and the 800 fossils they planted in GT5 are a test of faith.

rockclap.gif

 

[SatansReverence]

On the subject, I miss Rio's track from Forza 1. It was really nicely done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jP9mWb35Ko

Can't say I was a fan of the constant 90 degree corners but Forza is sorely lacking in the street track department so I think I can cope.

 

[Red Chocobo]

Damn man, give it up we get it already, you love GT5 and there must be no fault in the game...

There are plenty of things wrong with GT5. It's just that there are more things wrong with Forza (I've actually put more time into Forza 4 than GT5)

I might actually stop posting comparisons for a bit, because it's reached a point where I feel like a bully who's picking on the poor kid for having cheap clothes :/

 

[FordGTGuy]

On the subject, I miss Rio's track from Forza 1. It was really nicely done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jP9mWb35Ko

All the tracks from the original Forza makes me want to play it again.

Turn 10 you need to put these tracks back in Forza!

 

[tranciful]

All the tracks from the original Forza makes me want to play it again.

Turn 10 you need to put these tracks back in Forza!

Wouldn't it be neat if they threw in those old tracks as extras so you could race down nostalgia lane?

Oh wait, instead you'd complain about extra content.

 

[Reiko]

Wouldn't it be neat if they threw in those old tracks as extras so you could race down nostalgia lane?

Oh wait, instead you'd complain about extra content.

If they they put them in like Trial Mountain GT4... It would look quite uneven compared to the other tracks in the game. I would take a remake instead.

 

[tranciful]

If they they put them in like Trial Mountain GT4... It would look quite uneven compared to the other tracks in the game. I would take a remake instead.

Everybody would take a remake, obviously. But it should be obvious that both Polyphony and Turn 10 don't have the resources to remake all the tracks every time... or they would have.

So between removing them and including extra tracks... why would you choose to remove them?

edit: Basically, I'm pissed because the controversy over standard cars/tracks means they'll never do it again and I'll be missing all that content. All because of bullshit fanboy arguments.

 

[tranciful]

I have no idea what race series you watch but pretty much every touring car and GT race continue unless there is a track blocking crash...

Where's the race stoppage here? and no, a yellow flag is not a red flag.

Seriously, anything, anything at all to defend GT5...

...but your video shows rain that is closer to what you can experience in GT5.

Vid:

GT5:

vs Ferrari:

Where it seems to literally be flooding the track a couple inches.

Though this tangent seems to be off topic just to bash GT5, because here's Forza's rain:

 

[patsu]

All we need now is a time machine and than racing in real life will be just as easy as on consoles!

Man, after watching some videos on youtube, how come neither Forza or GT have Bathurst? I just don't get it. It can't be a license problem because we would know that by now and I know GT6 will likely have it but how the hell has it taken so long?

My friends and I play GT5 for the short races. NASCAR was tough. I like the quirky Sambabus race and the AMG one.

To our surprise, one of our friends' nephew went to GT Academy (Season 2, if I am correct). He lasted until quarter final. It was quite interesting to see kid working towards his passion. I bet his parents see video games differently after that.

 

[Reiko]

...but your video shows rain that is closer to what you can experience in GT5.

Vid:

GT5:

vs Ferrari:

Where it seems to literally be flooding the track a couple inches.

Though this tangent seems to be off topic just to bash GT5, because here's Forza's rain:

Are you comparing a closer shot of the ground to a far away shot? Nevermind the HUGE puddles in the video from the rain? lol

 

[SatansReverence]

Look virtually the same bar the differences that would obviously occur from such different angles and distances.

It doesn't even look like there is water on the track in your GT5 pictures...

 

[EightBitNate]

Should i skip Horizon? 30fps is a turn offl

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Should i skip Horizon? 30fps is a turn offl

It is a spin-off in the highest rated racing franchise of this generation.

You should play it.

 

[EightBitNate]

It is a spin-off in the highest rated racing franchise of this generation.

You should play it.

Yeah, but I've really had an itch for a racing simulator. Isn't Horizon more Arcade?

 

[SatansReverence]

Yeah, but I've really had an itch for a racing simulator. Isn't Horizon more Arcade?

It's got simulator physics but with the grip and assists turned up to 11.

I've skipped horizon but if I can find it for a good price I might pick it up.

 

[tranciful]

Look virtually the same bar the differences that would obviously occur from such different angles and distances.

...kidding? The road is not flooded in your video. To get ripples and reflections like in the Ferrari shot, you need standing water. It's literally flooded.

It doesn't even look like there is water on the track in your GT5 pictures...

The pavement in those GT5 shots look like this though


And here's GT5 again with different lighting

Again, much closer to what's in the vid you posted vs the Ferrari shot. Even has the puddles you asked for.

 

[SatansReverence]

...kidding? The road is not flooded in your video. To get ripples and reflections like in the Ferrari shot, you need standing water. It's literally flooded.

Please, do tell me how you can gauge depth of water from that screenshot. You can't. It's simply got standing water on a flat section of track.

The pavement in those GT5 shots look like this though

Because it was barely raining at that point of the track with little standing water?

 

[tranciful]

Please, do tell me how you can gauge depth of water from that screenshot. You can't. It's simply got standing water on a flat section of track.

I already did. You need an even water surface with some depth to get circular ripples like that (otherwise they'd get broken up by the pavement's rough surface). And look at the reflections -- MUCH more well defined than what you see in the video and in the GT5 shots because instead of wet concrete (as in the video and in GT5) you just have a surface of water.

Because it was barely raining at that point of the track with little standing water?

lol that was a few seconds earlier. Keep grasping. Here's a shot at the end of the rain clip:

Oh my gosh did the rain already dry up?

Where's the mist in the Ferrari game? Is it goopy water?

And I'd like to remind you that the water debate originated by someone claiming that GT5 doesn't look good in the rain... as if Forza (the other side of this thread's debate) looks good in the rain. What a laugh. Even if you think the Ferrari game does rain better than GT5, GT5 rain > Forza's lack of rain... except in bizarro fanboy world where more content is bad.

 

[SatansReverence]

I already did. You need an even water surface with some depth to get circular ripples like that (otherwise they'd get broken up by the pavement's rough surface). And look at the reflections -- MUCH more well defined than what you see in the video and in the GT5 shots because instead of wet concrete (as in the video and in GT5) you just have a surface of water.

You would only need 3-4mm to get effects like that.

lol that was a few seconds earlier. Keep grasping. Here's a shot at the end of the rain clip:

Because rain is TOTALLY uniform across a large area like say, a race track.

Where's the mist in the Ferrari game? Is it goopy water?

Because there are so many cars racing around to cause a spray.

 

[Salacious Crumb]

Even if it looks good no game has gotten anywhere close to simulating racing in the wet.

 

[tranciful]

You would only need 3-4mm to get effects like that.

Doesn't matter exactly how deep it needs to be. The water in your video was certainly not that deep. Your video is still closer to GT5 than the Ferrari example.

Because rain is TOTALLY uniform across a large area like say, a race track.

Surface of water seems pretty uniform in that Ferrari example

Even if it looks good no game has gotten anywhere close to simulating racing in the wet.

"Forza doesn't have rain so the best we can do is try to dismiss GT5's"

 

[Mascot]

I've always hated the driver model in Forza. When taking photos you often have to try and hide it. It's frankly hideous.

Their hands creep me out. Long, thin creepy fingers...

Edit:

Maybe you were right and the 800 fossils they planted in GT5 are a test of faith.

BOOM!

 

[Metalmurphy]

Maybe you were right and the 800 fossils they planted in GT5 are a test of faith.

Once again, what you are trying to pass out as a bad thing is actually a good thing.

Standards > No standards.

 

[amar212]

WILL THE QUOTING OF THE SAME GIFS OVERANDOVERAGAIN FOR THE EVERY DAMN PAGE STOP? PLEASE?

PLEASE?

It has literally killed two of my browsers (Safari and Mozilla), my data-plan on mobile and crashed my Android browser twice.

Please?

Why can't we make a rule to post GIFS as a links only, without IMG coding? Please. Only for this thread? Thank you sirs!

 

[FordGTGuy]

Once again, what you are trying to pass out as a bad thing is actually a good thing.

Standards > No standards.

Not having to have standards > having standards.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

WILL THE QUOTING OF THE SAME GIFS OVERANDOVERAGAIN FOR THE EVERY DAMN PAGE STOP? PLEASE?

PLEASE?

It has literally killed two of my browsers (Safari and Mozilla), my data-plan on mobile and crashed my Android browser twice.

Please?

Why can't we make a rule to post GIFS as a links only, without IMG coding? Please. Only for this thread? Thank you sirs!

But then how would you instantly see how awesome these games that we've seen million times before looked?

 

[Mascot]

WILL THE QUOTING OF THE SAME GIFS OVERANDOVERAGAIN FOR THE EVERY DAMN PAGE STOP? PLEASE?

PLEASE?

It has literally killed two of my browsers (Safari and Mozilla), my data-plan on mobile and crashed my Android browser twice.

Please?

Why can't we make a rule to post GIFS as a links only, without IMG coding? Please. Only for this thread? Thank you sirs!

Hear hear! I can't stand it when people quote images, not just gifs (ESPECIALLY long image trains). Drives me mad too. Should be a warnable offence.

 

[TheD]

lol that was a few seconds earlier. Keep grasping. Here's a shot at the end of the rain clip:

I wonder what the reason for them all having slick tyres on is if the rain was on the track for a while and did not come on extremely quickly.... (ohh wait it did come on quickly and rain does not fall at the same amount over all the track!).

If you watch the video from 1:22 you can see a straight that is just about dry, it is only near the end of the next straight that it is ultra wet.

 

[saladine1]

I might as well join in since I play both (and enjoy both).

Graphics
GT5 has the highest highs and the lowest lows for me.. the odd fleeting seconds of brilliance is offset by some pretty ropey textures and lack of track/scenery detail.. However that's all forgiveable, it's the screen tearing and obvious graphics over a rock solid 60fps that is the nail in the coffin for me
FM4 suffers from dropping LOD and AA to maintain a steady 60fps and it's graphical bar is defintely placed much lower then GT5 for spot comparison, however it seems that rather then blow the graphics budget on the cars, they seem to have spread it around, so tracks/scenery seem more often then not really well balanced for a good effect.
I really find the AA poor in FM4 when in most races, it's so much cleaner when hotlapping, and whilst I commend them for putting framerate ahead of AA, I would gladly sacrifice other graphical things to maintain 4xMSAA.

Physics
GT5 has a decent enough set of high level physics, by which I mean the general feel of the car is good, and the track interaction/feedback is excellent, it's certainly enough to fool most into thinking it's top notch. Where it falls down for me is that it lacks some obvious drivetrain/tyre physics that actually detract massively from the actual driving. For example, wheel spin away in an FWD or RWD car and it just tracks perfectly.. Then you realise that actually the FFB doesn't seem to have much coming from the actual tyres, the feeling of grip/slip in FWD cars is rather poor, and clearly you can tell by the tuning options that tyre deformation, pressure, width, etc are just rather absent. I love casually driving in GT5, but I hate hotlapping because when you want the feedback of what the tyres are doing in relation to the tyre physics, it's rather vacant
Forza is the other way around almost, it has quite indepth tyre physics, pressure, width, height etc are all there, and the grip/slip and torque behaviour is all there in the feedback making it great for hotlapping (for me at least). Where it falls down is that the high level general feel is decent enough and has improved in each iteration, but it's still not quite at GT5's level. And of course, the 'steering aids' and other little tweaks are quite understandable and rather overplayed IMO, but I can't figure out why they don't just mask them (as I suspect similar tweaks are in GT).

Sound
GT5 has a few decent sounding cars, but overall, Forza just has decent audio 90% of the time, it's much more consistent.. I can honestly say that as much as I like GT, the number of vacuum cleaners employed in the majority of cars is terrible.

Gameplay/Presentation
Another area FM has the more consistent and cohesive menu/gameplay by a country mile.. But it's career is really 1 dimensional.. very little variety and what variety there is proves to be really limited. GT has the poorest menu system by a mile, but it has more variety which is almost offset by the pointless game mechanics of servicing and having to earn paint chips..

Customisation/Tuning
GT is OK, but Forza obviously has made the most progress in this field (and probably explains some graphics issues), the ability to make your car your own is great, the first thing I do with a car is slap on personalised plates and make a car my own... in GT, the drastic lack of customisation keeps the game at a distance, I don't feel like I 'own' the cars in the same way.

Oddly, I would say that on balance, both are great games, and I stick by addage that GT has the highest highs and lowest lows with Forza being far more consistent in all areas which makes it IMO the better game, which is reflected by the vast majority of reviews, so I see no reason to post a million images and claim that somehow that negates the rest of the games foibles...

That is ridiculously uncanny. These are my sentiments exactly.

 

[TheD]

Once again, what you are trying to pass out as a bad thing is actually a good thing.

Standards > No standards.

Lack of visual consistency is an immersion breaker and I very much doubt they would of not put cars like the Veyron in the game if they did not have the standard models.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Not having to have standards > having standards.

Since not having standards != having more premiums, then standards > no standards.

You'd be missing on 800 cars, basically an history lesson on automotive history, and 800 cars that drive just as well as premiums.


Besides it gives trolls something to grasp on while most fans enjoy driving them/reading about them/collecting them/etc, so it's a win win.

 

[SatansReverence]

Even if it looks good no game has gotten anywhere close to simulating racing in the wet.

PGR is surprisingly good even though it's arcade with pools of water in dips and aquaplaning.

 

[brotkasten]

WILL THE QUOTING OF THE SAME GIFS OVERANDOVERAGAIN FOR THE EVERY DAMN PAGE STOP? PLEASE?

PLEASE?

It has literally killed two of my browsers (Safari and Mozilla), my data-plan on mobile and crashed my Android browser twice.

Please?

Why can't we make a rule to post GIFS as a links only, without IMG coding? Please. Only for this thread? Thank you sirs!

Just a tip to save some bandwidth in the future: If you use the mobile GAF site, you can disable GIFs in the preferences.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Since not having standards != having more premiums, then standards > no standards.

You'd be missing on 800 cars, basically an history lesson on automotive history, and 800 cars that drive just as well as premiums.


Besides it gives trolls something to grasp on while most fans enjoy driving them/reading about them/collecting them/etc, so it's a win win.

Saddest excuse I've heard so far...

 

[amar212]

Just a tip to save some bandwidth in the future: If you use the mobile GAF site, you can disable GIFs in the preferences.

I am using that, but every time I click to see them I see old 15MB gifs loaded again and again )

 

[saladine1]

Since not having standards != having more premiums, then standards > no standards.

You'd be missing on 800 cars, basically an history lesson on automotive history, and 800 cars that drive just as well as premiums.


Besides it gives trolls something to grasp on while most fans enjoy driving them/reading about them/collecting them/etc, so it's a win win.

I love PD's attitude towards automotive history. I love the Museum feature. I love just sitting back and reading about all the cars. I get all nerdy with this stuff.

If i can remember correctly, it was the Japanese version of GT4 Prologue that featured a woman narrating something about each car as you were going through them in the menus.
I didn't understand what she was saying, so I presume she was giving a biography of each car.

I'd love to see PD and Turn 10 take this even further for their next games.

I am using that, but every time I click to see them I see old 15MB gifs loaded again and again )

My phone nearly exploded from the overload of gifs and shit. My Samsung will never be the same again..

 

[FordGTGuy]

I love PD's attitude towards automotive history. I love the Museum feature. I love just sitting back and reading about all the cars. I get all nerdy with this stuff.

If i can remember correctly, it was the Japanese version of GT4 Prologue that featured a woman narrating something about each car as you were going through them in the menus.
I didn't understand what she was saying, so I presume she was giving a biography of each car.

I'd love to see PD and Turn 10 take this even further for their next games.

My phone nearly exploded from the overload of gifs and shit. My Samsung will never be the same again..

My Samsung tablet with Wi-Fi actually handles them pretty good.

 

[brotkasten]

I am using that, but every time I click to see them I see old 15MB gifs loaded again and again )

So don't click on them to see them.

Seriously, they add absolutely nothing to this wonderful discussion.

 

[Evolution_1ne]

You summed up exactly how I feel about these two games. I play them both, I like them both, but Forza just nudges it out. I go back to GT for the features that Forza doesn't have like rally races, night races, and races in rain, but when I just want to do a regualr race on asphalt I play Forza.

L O fucking L

this right here is why Forza is not in the same league as GT

So you go play GT when you want to play a racing simulator, good. At least we got that out of the way

 

[Solal]

So don't click on them to see them.

Seriously, they add absolutely nothing to this wonderful discussion.

Funny as I would rather say: this wonderful conversation adds nothing to the GIFS! ;-)

 

[Gouda Jouji]

If i can remember correctly, it was the Japanese version of GT4 Prologue that featured a woman narrating something about each car as you were going through them in the menus. I didn't understand what she was saying, so I presume she was giving a biography of each car.

That narration is actually still in the Japanese version of GT5. For EVERY car. It's insane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTQijS_ptFo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgGnjAdwx4M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9DUwq9Wf7k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJGqGgZEM4g

More here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/kosuke1973/videos?view=0

 

[SatansReverence]

I am using that, but every time I click to see them I see old 15MB gifs loaded again and again )

Android browser has the option to not load any pictures. I'm not sure if it loads the whole gif but you can turn off the animations for them as well

 

[FordGTGuy]

L O fucking L

this right here is why Forza is not in the same league as GT

So you go play GT when you want to play a racing simulator, good. At least we got that out of the way

I like how you completely ignored the ending of his statement...

It's funny to see GT fanboys talk about PC sim racers as elitests when they make comments like the one above...