Diablohead
Member
The cars in forza have always ignored reflections of the ground, you can see in the screens above that the GT cars will appear darker near the underside of the car because of the asphalt, forza does not do that.
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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35
- Thread starter bishoptl
- Start date
You should try racing online
The GT5 races I've had with gaf when it was running regularly were great, racing against other people always makes me nervous and gets my heart pumping.
Very true. I used to race online quite a lot with a bunch of friends, and when its good there's nothing better. Can't beat that feeling of winning a hard-fought race against friends and acquaintances. I've not raced online in quite a while though. I guess people drifted away one by one as other games took over. Racing against randoms is just... fucking horrible, for the most part.
Wait wha?
I can't race random on any racing game, you always have jerks.
Yes, unfortunately it is pretty horrible. We will soon(ish) do another NRL race though.
Those shuffle races were people have random but similar cars is one of the best experiences I have had online.
It really is intense, as in my palms are sweaty and since the cars are similar in performance it really boils down to who is the best driver. I won a few times but even when I lost and came near last I still had a blast and enjoyed it.
Random racing is pretty awesome, ESPECIALLY if you make sure you are aware of those idiots who try to hit you but if you make sure to counter that then not only is it a laugh but very rewarding to see them crash ( like when turning a little when breaking and seeing them fly past you into the wall) and other times.
ResidentDante
Member
In other you simply haven't played FM4 and judge through screens.
SolidSnakex
Member
The simple answer is that they don't outsource anything. Everything you see in GT5 is something that they built on their own.
Diablohead
Member
It's more to do with the shade on the car then reflecting like a mirror, maybe I worded it wrong. It's part of why forza has that slight toon look to it because it's making the car stick out a little.
For example you can go into the vinyl editor, apply a grey transparent shade along the bottom of the car at about 90% transparency and it looks a ton better, I have done that to some cars since forza 1 was out.
I'll grab some screens later when I can.
I own all the games including the LE's, son.
It's a small flaw such as the super clear glass on cars because it's not reflecting much of the sky, something more tweaks can fix.
Had some good sessions with randoms on PGR3 in the year following the 360 launch. Met and made lifelong friendships with some of them, too. We still meet up every year for a piss-up and a curry, and for weddings, motorsport events, paintballing, Eurogamer etc. Everyone seemed a lot friendlier back then - not the brat spoiler kids that seem to populate XBL these days, whining and quitting early all the time.
You know I was going to bring up PGR as being one of the few games I ever had good random races in, nice to see I'm not the only one.
Diablohead
Member
Grid was the worst online, you join a lobby without a headset? kicked. You join with a low level? kicked.
When you did get into a race all the elite racers would go pile up in the first corner and it's all their fault, not yours.
Red Chocobo
Banned
Damage comparison time.
Personally, I find that neither do it well (Grid and Shift 2 piss on both in this aspect).
Although GT5's is real-time, it can look goofy in extreme cases. Then Forza cars look like they drove through a sandpaper factory with a little bump. So both are a bit shit. Double fail.
Personally, I find that neither do it well (Grid and Shift 2 piss on both in this aspect).
Although GT5's is real-time, it can look goofy in extreme cases. Then Forza cars look like they drove through a sandpaper factory with a little bump. So both are a bit shit. Double fail.
fabricated backlash
Member
Just using a physically responsive camera mounted to a driver skeleton would help immersion immensely. I mean it's great that force feedback wheels start to try and simulate the forces at work, but even the best ones aren't even close to represent even small cc Kart steering forces. But that's just mechanical limitation that's impossible to overcome in consumer products.
I agree with the notion that FOV changes are idiotic as usually if something gets frantic enough, the players eyes will actually do that themselves.
Driver exhaustion would probably be impossible to faithfully simulate, but at least make the visual and physical feedback more believable.
Maybe they could include driver death into the games. Have a brutal crash? The chance that your driver won't make it out alive and you lose your progress/career should be at least an option. Put some Dark Souls into that bitch. In Racing you never ever drive 100% unless you're a fearless bastard that either lacks the perspective and understanding of death (ignorance of youth), or actively defies it. Racing is an onslaught of sensory impressions, but racing games so far have utterly failed at delivering that aspect beyond sterile car simulation.
You should try racing online
The GT5 races I've had with gaf when it was running regularly were great, racing against other people always makes me nervous and gets my heart pumping. I know what you mean by overall race-day experience though, the A-Spec mode is something that needs to change, I would prefer if they expanded the special events and built their single player around that somehow.
That would actually be a great idea. It would still not solve the sterile interaction, but at least would put genuine racing and competition at the forefront. I'd be down for that as an interim solution.
But even then you'd still be so detached from the action, so devoid of feedback that the tension itself comes from the competition, not the driving itself.
Diablohead
Member
sleeping_dragon
Banned
With so many fundamental problems as you just listed and yet you prefer Forza over GT.
Damage is never going to be what we want in games like Forza and GT that have normal everyday cars and tons of brands. Each brand has their own restrictions for instance Ford Motor Company won't allow any damage that shows intrusion into the cabin.
You think Forza is the only game with problems? hah
Every game has room the improve and no game is perfect so there will always be flaws.
I play Forza to have fun, usually I jump in Free Play mode choose a random car on a random track and throw it around a track as fast as I can.
I can list dozens of problems and flaws with my favorite movie, this doesn't prevent it from being my favorite movie.
You think Forza is the only game with problems? hah
Every game has room the improve and no game is perfect so there will always be flaws.
I play Forza to have fun, usually I jump in Free Play mode choose a random car on a random track and throw it around a track as fast as I can.
I can list dozens of problems and flaws with my favorite movie, this doesn't prevent it from being my favorite movie.
Diablohead
Member
I forget which but forza 2 or 3 had different tire brands, all would vary in grip and life too.
You selected the type of tire and then could pick from 3 or 4 different qualities.
You selected the type of tire and then could pick from 3 or 4 different qualities.
Yep, no matter how much times we compare visuals and such, the fact of the matter is, there's so much more important things that need to be addressed.
One of those things, as mentioned by others, is the racing itself. I don't think anyone would be comfortable in saying that both games are fine in this department.
I can't believe that after all these years, this issue hasn't been resolved or at least addressed in a serious manner.
I understand that these games are more about the cars than the race itself, but this kind of philosophy has gone on for far too long.
Race day immersion, atmosphere, authenticity..whatever you want to call it needs to be at the forefront of future games.
One of those things, as mentioned by others, is the racing itself. I don't think anyone would be comfortable in saying that both games are fine in this department.
I can't believe that after all these years, this issue hasn't been resolved or at least addressed in a serious manner.
I understand that these games are more about the cars than the race itself, but this kind of philosophy has gone on for far too long.
Race day immersion, atmosphere, authenticity..whatever you want to call it needs to be at the forefront of future games.
Why hasn't anyone complained about the horrible sound effects in gt5?
haven't played the game in 3 months or so hoping that the monthly updates would eventually improve the sounds into something that resembles a vehicle and not my shitty lawn mower
I own an R33 gtr in real life, so naturally I would pick the R33 gtr in gt5 and take it for a spin, hoping they patched in that throaty RB20 engine note I adore.
what I got instead was a droning overbearing noise of a supercharged vacum cleaner, i didn't even bother completing the lap. I took the game out and put it back onto the shelf for it to collect dust until I trade it in for drive club.
someone please explain to me, after numerous patches...why they haven't improved the sound of the cars? it is the most crucial aspect of a racing game, apart of the fundamentals that makes a racing game enjoyable, and for 10 years now they haven't been able to replicate a real car sound. Its unacceptable.
haven't played the game in 3 months or so hoping that the monthly updates would eventually improve the sounds into something that resembles a vehicle and not my shitty lawn mower
I own an R33 gtr in real life, so naturally I would pick the R33 gtr in gt5 and take it for a spin, hoping they patched in that throaty RB20 engine note I adore.
what I got instead was a droning overbearing noise of a supercharged vacum cleaner, i didn't even bother completing the lap. I took the game out and put it back onto the shelf for it to collect dust until I trade it in for drive club.
someone please explain to me, after numerous patches...why they haven't improved the sound of the cars? it is the most crucial aspect of a racing game, apart of the fundamentals that makes a racing game enjoyable, and for 10 years now they haven't been able to replicate a real car sound. Its unacceptable.
Do you guys think Forza and GT should adopt flags(like in real racing) for career mode?
I hope by human drama they don't mean simulated on screen effects like blacking out in collisions and stuff...
I hope by human drama they don't mean simulated on screen effects like blacking out in collisions and stuff...
SolidSnakex
Member
I think it'll be interesting to see what Kaz meant by this
http://www.gtplanet.net/kazunori-yamauchi-hopes-to-acheive-human-drama-in-next-gran-turismo/
It sounds like what you're describing.
Damage comparison time.
Personally, I find that neither do it well (Grid and Shift 2 piss on both in this aspect).
Although GT5's is real-time, it can look goofy in extreme cases. Then Forza cars look like they drove through a sandpaper factory with a little bump. So both are a bit shit. Double fail.
i genuinely dont understand how its possible for the hood on that bmw to have scrapes right up to the windscreen?????? how???? i mean no car on forza could possibly cause that...
Red Chocobo
Banned
This might sound morbid. But I've always wanted racing sims to have fatal crashes.
Have a massive t-bone hit or head-on collision with a brick wall and your career is over. Gone forever. New character profile needed.
It would certainly strike fear into the gamer and make you be more careful.
Have a massive t-bone hit or head-on collision with a brick wall and your career is over. Gone forever. New character profile needed.
It would certainly strike fear into the gamer and make you be more careful.
or what about a regenerative health bar? and perks too
What collision could possible cause that deformation on the Nissan?
Challenge Accepted.
I heard it was to with RAM allocation or something?
No doubt someone in the know will pipe up.
ResidentDante
Member
My bad! I see what you mean now though!
BloodMoney
Banned
agreed, this would really add to the tension of racing.
Are you serious?
It's been addressed a thousand times.
Dead horse and all.
Promising. Very promising indeed.
At least the acknowledgement is there.
Hopefully, Greenawalt follows suit..
What does having proper car sounds have to do with RAM allocation?
so you can physically get the ass of that truck on top of a car?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEw-0h8HhFU
fabricated backlash
Member
The focus on simulating the cars was a by-product of the nature of console evolution to be quite frank. It was enough to wow people with ever more accurate car models and more believable car simulation, but in the end these aspects got better, while the actual racing got more sterile and detached the more graphics and physics evolved.
It's like the uncanny valley but with racing/cars. The more realistic they look/behave, the more I notice the things that are missing, lacking.
I don't know, I didn't really understand it when I read it. We need Amar, stat.
Red Chocobo
Banned
If not fatal, other injuries would be good in a career mode.
In sports games like FIFA, your players can break limbs and be forced to miss games and seasons.
I don't think I've ever seen that in a racing game. Even though it happens in real racing.
Buy Forza 4, get a good set of headphones, put the setting for engine sound bias in settings, turn down ambient and tire sounds and turn up engine sounds and turn off music.
Muscle cars sound damn good in Forza 4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHBnDsEcfBM
Cobra R @ 3:09.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kWov6jYVKM
Plymouth Cuda @ 0:40
Ford Fairlane Thunderbolt @ 3:39
gundamkyoukai
Member
I would hate that since ai is not perfect and more than once it cost me to crash , hell i can even see people making files just to target people that put hours of work into there files .
Truth is that no matter what you do it's just a game and you can't put fear of death into people , not to mention losing everything would piss huge amount of people off .
Not in recent FIFAs, certainly. Did they do this in older versions? Injuries in FIFA now only seem to last a few minutes.
fabricated backlash
Member
Absolutely yes, safety car, penalties, and all the rules that make sense (just don't adopt F1 bullshit)
Yeah that isn't drama, that's intrusive. But placing the camera on a physically simulated skeleton, simulating driver injuries/death, penalties and AI that doesn't drive on rails being completely braindead would already go a long way.
they're okay, probably some of the better attempts. certainly better than gt5 attempts.
read this: http://www.tracktimeaudio.com/?p=322
its a study of the sound effects in racing games.
HD video comparisons of: dirt, grid, pgr, forza, gt, f1, nfs, etc of tyre screeching, road noise, acceleration, driving past fixed cameras, etc.
SolidSnakex
Member
I think that may be because of what it'd mean for a racing game. The only way for it to have an impact would be for your drivers death to also mean that you in-game progress dies. Otherwise it's just like any other game where a character can die and you simply respawn without any repercussions. And even that wouldn't be so bad restart because most games these days are short. Completing something like GT takes a long time.
Red Chocobo
Banned
Forza's sound is way too overblown. Loud does not automatically mean it's realistic.
No matter where the camera is, it sounds like your face is on the engine.
Not only that, but it's too clean. Like it was recorded in someone's living room, rather than outside.
fabricated backlash
Member
Well i'd like the definition of "completing" a racing game changes dramatically.
Having a real character and the real consequence of permanent death would make a multi year career all the more fullfilling. The bragging rights online would be a lot higher for something like that, as it would be uniquely yours, not just a "I completed the same exact career mode like you" checklist.
Isn't DriveClub doing this?
You clearly haven't driven very many cars in Forza 4.
Watch the video below and learn a thing or two.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I07SwrI89Hs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J45iWxBvLBY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6mYYLrODAU
I'm sorry but it's not RAM allocation, there are car in GT5 with good sound already so it should be perfectly possible for the rest.
Bottom-line they ported the sounds from GT4 and didn't take the effort to dyno every car for the game.
FM definitely needs more layers adding or improving (prop shaft whine, transmission clunks, chassis scuttle, turbos spooling, suspension complaining - again, see Shift for reference), but the engine audio sounds pretty damn good to me.
How would you describe GT5's audio by comparison?
Red Chocobo
Banned
Forza's sound suffers from the same thing that Shift's did. It replicates what a microphone hears, and not the human ear.
Too blown out and loud.
Also, FordGTGuy. I've seen you calling several people out for being GT fanboys that can't see faults (Including me). But you are just as bad, but with Forza :/ Pot, kettle, black. Just wanted to point that out.
Too blown out and loud.
Also, FordGTGuy. I've seen you calling several people out for being GT fanboys that can't see faults (Including me). But you are just as bad, but with Forza :/ Pot, kettle, black. Just wanted to point that out.
The moment a car racing sim sounds start sounding like this then I will be impressed. We are so far off real sounds its not even funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SccjaskA1n8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SccjaskA1n8&feature=related