fabricated backlash
Member
Honestly don't know, but it would be a step in the right direction.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35
- Thread starter bishoptl
- Start date
Honestly don't know, but it would be a step in the right direction.
So you sit here and call out Forza and I'm not allowed to defend it or I'm automatically a fanboy??
Really?
I love all racing games....
Of course you still haven't watched or paid any attention to the videos I posted, the guy from Turn 10 points out that a human ear hears differently from a microphone and the techniques they used to counter-act this.
If by "Best," you mean "most disappointing after five-seven years worth of hype." Then, yes, it's "best."
GT5 was an utter disappointment, and I say this as someone that still owns a copy of it. The fact they squandered the Top Gear license (and let Forza do MORE with it) is shocking. They had the hype for being the first "console race sim" having the track and license and they... didn't do shit besides three special races (that are horseshit) and have the track (and rumored to have a day/night/weather change that was removed thanks to that special debug menu in arcade mode)
Point-to-points are in... but are awful.
Race graphics are hilarious on anything not cockpit view. And if you're racing the X1 in the rain you can see it's a camera effect that "rotates" where the car is turning instead of having rain physics throw the rain off.
brotkasten said:
Don't you know? GT is the "real Skyline simulator."
SolidSnakex
Member
I don't disagree. In previous GT threads we've talked about how they could improve the GT mode. I think a common feeling is that they should create proper racing seasons within that mode. Do something where you try to work your way up the ranks. They already have karts in the series now, and that's where a lot of drivers start out. So start from there and try to create the feel of being a driver while working their way up.
Another idea would be to take the Grand Tour mode in GT5's Special Events and figure out how to evolve that into a full mode. In general the Special Events had a completely different feel compared to the GT mode. So they might have something there if they decide to flesh it out.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Then you losing everything because of ai or some stupid online jackass .
It just not going to work for a game that some people put 100 plus hours into just to lose everything .
Red Chocobo
Banned
I was just mentioning as a favour, to save you from embarrassment if you do it again.
A fanboy calling another person a fanboy is pretty silly, and I've seen you do it multiple times.
i had to rewind my face when i read this
Please
I want a car in a game to sound like this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn0AtcM_JWI
I call 'em like I see them.
Say what you will but I won't sit by and watch people shit on a good game and say nothing and that includes GT5.
Show me a single post I've made where I've lied in order to make GT5 look bad? There is a difference between proper criticism and fanboy behavior.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Did Top Gear not do some type of deal with Forza that mess up GT .
I could be remembering wrong or just forum gossip but certain things were plan for GT but after the Forza deal there were no where to be found .
Red Chocobo
Banned
I bet you are one of those people that still shout "PS3 has no games!".
There are hundreds of other cars in GT5. Literally.
My bad, sorry. I was sure I read that fairly recently (might even have been in this thread).
drugstore_cowboy
Member
Yeah for sure, I'd love to see them both leave arcadey racing behind next gen and put rules and penalties in place, increasing the grid hurt Forza's AI and it would have been a shambles.
Sure there are Mazdas too...
but seriously GT is lacking in most other manufacturers, especially companies like Ferrari.
Your game should not have 56 Skylines and 19 Ferraris.
Have to admit, that things is fucking brutal!
Funnily enough, games like NFS Pro Street capture the authenticity of these sounds more than most. The stage 3 turbo with it's turbo spool and blow off valve along with the stage 4 racing dog box whine sounds incredible.
Imo, the blow off valve effect is the best implementation i've heard in a game..
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
For me it is also game of generation.
Sure it has flaws but core of game is simply the best.
-You can rant about UI, standard cars being worse than premium or to many skylines but when it comes to actual driving part there isn't really any other game that can deliver so much fun simply by driving your car from dawn till dusk on N-Ring.
-You can rant about mediacore quality rain particles but they did deliver deep weather system which is far more important for gameplay than mediacore particles.
-They delivered proper Online which is still fucking good with private lobbies and they upgraded it overtime.
-They delivered track generator, sure only 4 themes but i drove a lot of amazing track online with friends.
-They doubled amount of cars in race to 16 from 8 in GT4 which is important for gameplay.
- You can rant about lack of races in campain mode but they did deliver weekly 2-3 new races for last 2 years. Drift challenges, time trials with leaderboards
- They introduced to GT damage model first time ever which is procedural. Sure it is not hot nor it does its job well but still it is damage model and they can improve that in next GT.
GT4 to GT5 is superb evolution.
sleeping_dragon
Banned
WOW! Sounds like my 10 years old lawn mower! LOL
Ok here is a lesson for Ferrow, the above is what a real fanboy statement looks like.
It's when someone distorts the truth and lies in order to make the game they prefer seem superior, also another key part of being a fanboy is to never allow what you prefer to have faults.
Which I've shown earlier, I'm pretty easily capable of point out the faults of Forza.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Does this level of blatant trolling = a ban in this thread?
I've enjoyed reading all the insightful comments in here and came to the conclusion that the topics in this thread generally follow a certain trend and loop in this manner:
Graphics
But Photomode!
In-game
Gifs
Jaggies & AA
Shaders
Standards lolz
Outsourcing
Model accuracy
Track accuracy
Trees and crowds
Frame-rate and tearing
Patch support
Sound
Vacuum cleaners
Weather effects
PGR
Night racing
Horizon
Piss filter
IQ
Physics
Tire model
What tire model
Is there anything missing?
Graphics
But Photomode!
In-game
Gifs
Jaggies & AA
Shaders
Standards lolz
Outsourcing
Model accuracy
Track accuracy
Trees and crowds
Frame-rate and tearing
Patch support
Sound
Vacuum cleaners
Weather effects
PGR
Night racing
Horizon
Piss filter
IQ
Physics
Tire model
What tire model
Is there anything missing?
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Fanboys
Put fanboy on the end that's the name of the current chapter.
phosphor112
Banned
It's not necessarily the methodology of how the end result is achieved, as long as it's achieved. That is the point of a simulation. In the end, GT5 has better physics. Yes, it severely lacks in tire calculations, but in the end, it is still a step above Forza.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
No, just no.
GT5 has extremely basic and very very unrealistic tyre physics and tyres are the only part of the car that makes contact with the road. Different tyre qualities are nothing more than grip multipliers. You can't adjust air pressures even though it's one of the most basic yet fundamental aspects of setting up a car when used in racing. Wheel weights mean nothing and thus unsprung weight means nothing which is bad for both tyre and suspension physics.
Not even going to go in depth on how much better Forzas aero modelling is or the lack of torque steer in GT5.
GT5 is just an unrealistically hard game to play.
How long until someone quotes lap time comparisons?
GT5 lacks a few physics systems that put it under Forza for me, tire physics namely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQKMNNUtcpY
Red Chocobo
Banned
If GT5 doesn't have realistic physics, then why has it been used to train drivers for the last two years? :/
Was there ever a Forza Academy?
Was there ever a Forza Academy?
No just a livery art gallery
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
lol, GT academy is a marketing stunt.
It's not used to train anyone and just lets people with natural talent yet no background make it into the racing world.
I should ask Scaff for the link to the article where someone learned how to drive fast around the nurburgring on GT5, tried it in real life and ended up in hospital for weeks.
Both games are still way off from the real stuff.
I mean, they both look very life like, they both handle very good (although we all know who takes the edge in both of those departments), but all that is still ruined by the sound.
Forza (while a bit exaggerated) sounds ok while you're driving but is ruined by the 8-bit NES-like shifting sounds, and replays, oh man, I want to puke just listening them doing downshift...
GT5 sounds very bland, monotone, it doesn't sound like you're stressing the engine (maybe because they recorded them while the car was in neutral, I don't know), there is no "screaming" involved, but on the other hand, it sounds solid on the replays, clearly there is a difference in the sound while the car is passing by the camera (you), there is engine noise, then there is exhaust noise, very good.
Now, tire squeal, both games need more variety, they are still using the same sound for every situation, same goes for the turbos, gearbox needs more variety, exhaust notes needs more variety, just play any rally video and you'll hear what I mean...
The sounds needs to reflect from the environment, if they are coming from the distance then they need to be ......"squashed" because they are traveling trough a medium called air, and not to just turn the volume down.
I know I'm asking a lot but the progress seems to be very slow, I still didn't get goosebumps from any sound of any racing game.
I'll put a very good compilation of the sounds that was done by the Motorvision show on DSF long time ago (not very good quality, can't find the original):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0BuVtdIUrQ
Just listen to that variety of the sounds I was talking about.
Also, 0:33s that BMW burnout and the sound of it leaving, is like the best thing ever.
brotkasten
Member
It's sleeping dragon. I'd say it's your own fault for giving him any attention.
You know just because some people prefer Forza doesn't mean GT doesn't have realistic physics?
What's wrong with you guys it's like if someone says Forza has better physics you seem to think they mean GT5 is arcadey which no one here is saying.
Quite a lot... how much have you played Forza 4?
GT5 feels more fluid but it has a disconnect that Forza 4 doesn't. In Forza you can feel your tires struggle to hold grip as the tire walls bend and the tread grasps the pavement.
Forza 4 didn't just put together some crappy tire engine they built it on data from Pirelli with everything from race slicks to old school tall walls.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
I suggest you really listen to Forza. The amount of information you can get just from tyres noises is staggering.
While basic the sounds in Forza do change depending on where you are. Open areas are different from tunnels and they are different from ares with dense buildings and areas with large crowds are also different.
SolidSnakex
Member
That doesn't say anything about GT5's physics engine. Anyone that plays a game then tries to drive exactly like they did in that game on a real track is just asking to go to the hospital. There's no real worries in a game. You crash and then you restart the race. Games will let you be brave in corners by taking them at a higher speed and a higher gear than anyone would have the heart to do in real life. But that doesn't say anything about how realistic or unrealistic a game is. That corner may very well be possible to take at a higher speed than most drivers do, but no one is willing to risk their life to find out.
As a neutral observer who appreciates the flaws and triumphs of both games I have to say I appreciate the progressive analogue feedback that Forza's tyre model gives me compared to the more digital grip/no grip feel I get when playing GT. I can haptically (is that a word?) predict the moment of slip in FM, whereas GT often seems to catch me out.
(Fanatec GT2 wheel user, btw)
(Fanatec GT2 wheel user, btw)
Don't really understand what the point of this video is. Are you saying GT doesn't have accurate suspension simulation?
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Real racing drivers do it every time they go to work...
When one of, if not the most knowledgeable person in the world on the subject says it's basic, you should really sit up and listen.
GT5 doesn't have a tire physics engine like Forza does that's what the video is showing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4QG3drCFjE
Watch the tires in the above video.
phosphor112
Banned
The first video, the guy says they use a licensed post processing distortion effect.
PD use the same method to record. Their problem? They import the sounds directly into the game without editing it.
I don't think you can read. I already said GT5's tire physics sucks. But in this comparison, Fanboy wars GT5 vs Forza, GT5's physics end up on top. The methodoligy of achieving it doesn't matter as long as it's done.
It's like Forza's sounds vs GT's. PD records their sounds raw, but imports them raw. Turn 10 processed them with a distortion filter. And you know what? It gets a better result. It doesn't matter HOW it's fucking done as long as it's done.
You claim to know how game development works but it's painfully obvious that you don't.
I think it's typical for Forza fans to have unrealistic expectations for physics -- it also seems to be more common for Forza fans to talk positively about Shift and other non sims. Forza builds the physics to fit gamer expectations while GT builds physics to fit reality -- I'm not saying GT5's physics are perfect (though I'd definitely argue they're more realistic); I'm merely talking intent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPJxFoiis68
Forza makes you feel like a movie star who can pull off crazy maneuvers with little effort -- GT5 makes you feel like a racecar driver.
sleeping_dragon
Banned
How was that trolling? It was just my opinion, GT5 have shitty car sounds too.
SolidSnakex
Member
Of course they do, but my point is that you can almost always push things even further than people may have thought previously. Events like X Games show that every year. Several years ago a backflip on a dirt bike was seen as unthinkable. Now it's so common that it's almost boring. All you need is one person to show that it's possible to do without ending up in a hospital (or worse), then everyone does it. One driver may end up taking a corner at a higher speed, then every driver will start doing it because it'd be necessary to keep up.
A game gives you more freedom to experiment. You aren't risking your life if you try to take that corner at a higher speed. You aren't risking a multimillion dollar car for hat higher speed. You're just risking a few seconds before a restart if it doesn't work out how you thought it would. But you can keep trying over and over again until you get that extra second due to not downshifting. That's a luxury that doesn't exist in the real world.
Seeing as you have no idea what I know about game development you cannot fairly judge my understanding of it.
I didn't know a person could talk out their ass that much....
Turn off all assists on Forza 4 and put on simulation steering and jump in a prototype car and try to "pull off crazy maneuvers with little effort" you'll find yourself in a wall in no time.
I'm sorry but I haven't seen a single person in this thread talk up Shift physics, Shift physics are down right terrible.
You can't!
phosphor112
Banned
Give me a break the suspensions in GT5 are EASILY the physics aspect that dumps on Forza's, just like how the tires on Forza dump on GT's.
OK tyre deformation. Why couldn't you just say that? Saying tyre physics would imply that GT doesn't actually calculate anything to do with the tyres which is false. Use the proper terminology next time instead of trying to look smart by sticking the word engine on the end of things.
I haven´t played any Forza game ever. sorry..
but I just thought your PSN was the same as your Live Gamertag, and according to the trophies on that profile, you have like 8 GT5 trophies.. I just think that´s a little on the low side.. just saying.
Actually yes you can, they released a update and fixed the steering glitch.
Instead of assuming the purpose of the video why don't you read my post, It was to point out the tire physics.
GT5's tire engine is severely lacking in comparison unfortunately.
I mostly ended up playing it on a friends profile after my PS3 broke a month out of warranty....
Diablohead
Member
which ones stay on in forza 4? I know there was steering assists in 3 you could not disable but they added the option into 4.