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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35

eso76

Member
I'm not so sure about that, but anyway I'm pretty sure they subdivide certain parts way beyond what we get ingame in GT5 or Forza. Poly edges are way too noticeable in wheel arches, windows, exhausts or wheels.

they claim 100% unedited FM4 lod0 models with no sub-patching and I don't doubt it's true, I've extracted a few fm4 models myself and poly edges are almost non-existant even up close.

These are NOT the 1m poly models (those are autovista models), but the same 450k (on average) models you get in photomode, menu and ingame (time attack only).
 
I made a comparison for the poly-count discussion.

The top one was taken on a track. And the bottom is travel photo mode.

The poly count actually looks the same to me.

lQLEdwE.jpg
 
I made a comparison for the poly-count discussion.

The top one was taken on a track. And the bottom is travel photo mode.

The poly count actually looks the same to me.

lQLEdwE.jpg

Usually the big differences are in the things that aren't immediately visible, stuff like wires and buttons.
 

eso76

Member
yeah, the Shelby looks the same as ingame, but i've seen models where differences were much more noticeable.

FM4 shelby

forza-motorsport-4-shelby-cobra-427-par-tuga-104660.jpg


can't take a pic from the same angle now, but i'm pretty sure it's considerably higher poly

edit: yep, definitely, noticeably higher poly.

2d8bb61f-7023-45f8-b878-9d7c48063edd.jpg


edit2: and you can see why these models wouldn't need more polys, no poly edge in sight even up close
 

eso76

Member
oh edges.. thats the word.

what does turn 10 use? tesselation? Its like you can zoom to infinite and theres no edges.

edit: this is the music I want to hear in my game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZTPph7BLRI

no tessellation, just very high poly. I know because i have a few .obj files ripped from fm4right here :p

I've been saying this for years, finally neogaf believes :)
FM4 photomode models are considerably higher poly than gt5 ingame models and it appears photo travel models too.

And just because you can never have too many cobras onscreen.

sienapiazzadelcampo3usuc7.jpg


Well, now i'm pretty sure this particular model hasn't received the attention it deserved in GT5 and i'm pretty sure the model is the same both ingame and photo travel.
It also looks kinda off.

forza-motorsport-4-shelby-cobra-427-par-mmp-ardeme-328323.jpg


So now you know. If you want to make FM4 come out on top, use a Shelby Cobra pic in comparisons.
 

saladine1

Junior Member
no tessellation, just very high poly. I know because i have a few .obj files ripped from fm4right here :p

I've been saying this for years, finally neogaf believes :)
FM4 photomode models are considerably higher poly than gt5 ingame models and it appears photo travel models too.

And just because you can never have too many cobras onscreen.


Well, now i'm pretty sure this particular model hasn't received the attention it deserved in GT5 and i'm pretty sure the model is the same both ingame and photo travel.
It also looks kinda off.

forza-motorsport-4-shelby-cobra-427-par-mmp-ardeme-328323.jpg


So now you know. If you want to make FM4 come out on top, use a Shelby Cobra pic in comparisons.

Damn, that's a great pic you have there!
 

shinnn

Member
no tessellation, just very high poly. I know because i have a few .obj files ripped from fm4right here :p

Interesting. I hope PD is backing up higher poly models for the PS4.


Well, now i'm pretty sure this particular model hasn't received the attention it deserved in GT5

Wondering how frequent is this. The other car that I've tried yesterday was not that great polygon-wise neither

amarec20130501-19092qkzzi.jpeg
 

Snubbers

Member
Was it like that the second turn around where I manually straighten the wheel?

Also did you align that line with the skewed TV?
I did, I drew it along the bottom of your TV, then moved it up.. You can also tell it's misaligned because you shouldn't be able to see all of the red light on the left of the wheel. It's very likely that your real wheel is slightly misaligned, using that as a reference is not a good idea.



Please elaborate. Unless torque steer makes all cars turn to the left for some reason.
Torque steer in FWD is usually down to unequal length driveshafts, so for a given model it should always torque steer in the same direction, I believe all the FWD I've ever driven that have it all pull to the right.

I was just testing this. There is no steering angle applied.

The car does seem to behave like there would be torque steering in the game on the test track with slicks in the front and comfort hard tyres in the rear. I can replicate this with the controller every time.

But when I tried this method on that straight DLC track the car would launch straight even with those tyres.

My guess would be that the elevation changes in the test track are responsible for this "torque steering" that doesn't happen on that other track.

Your findings are correct, the issue is, we are trying to isolate things so we can see what the underlying physics is modelling for the chassis/drivetrain/tyres, the confusion comes in because you can get the car to 'spin' for two other reasons
1. The steering wheel is off centre, so with the rear wheels spinning, it will exponentially increase it's angular velocity and spin around.
2. The camber of the road is not level and the car tracks that even with the steering wheel perfectly centered, causing rotation.

This is why you can make it spin left or right by using a combination of the two. but neither of these is any indication of the chassis/drivetrain/tyre physics. to isolate it, you need to ensure you have the in-car steering wheel perfectly straight, and also be on a perfectly flat section of track, then any rotation is not due to any slight steering input or track camber issue. I let the car roll along the track center line, you soon see if the wheel is centered or not as the car slowly veers off to one side, once it tracks straight, you can just stop, and do a WOT launch.

If you do this, as many have found, GT does not model this kind drivetrain/chassis input in the physics, and Forza does. It's not a big deal by itself, but when anyone is discussing phsyics, it's a wide subject, and it's good to understand which aspects are done well and which have room for improvement.
 
It's odd though. Despite having a much higher poly count, the Forza cars still don't looks as realistic at GT ones :/

Probably shows how much lighting has to do with the realistic look.
 

FlyFaster

Member
I've been saying this for years, finally neogaf believes :)
FM4 photomode models are considerably higher poly than gt5 ingame models and it appears photo travel models too.

No one who has payed even mild cursory attention to both games was ever in doubt of this. Autovista cars have way more polys.

That's nice for taking pics, but doesn't mean jack in a race. (where I'm presuming people are spending most of their time... I do)
 

eso76

Member
Interesting. I hope PD is backing up higher poly models for the PS4

Wondering how frequent is this. The other car that I've tried yesterday was not that great polygon-wise neither

amarec20130501-19092qkzzi.jpeg

What car is that ?
Have you tried in photo travel ?
 
More pics you say?



LOL that Camaro.

Ahrweiler-Street-1.jpg

CamaroSS_1.jpg

lagunasecaraceway-20wzir.jpg

chevrolet_camaro_ss_rm__10__tuned___by_gt5_garage-d5oswnt.png


vs

camaro-ss-forza-4.jpg


vs (NFS)

attachment.php

Look at dem edges in the mirrors!!

Bonus:
Car_Model_Replay_000.bmp.jpg

Oh how I would like to see the differences between photomodo and ingame for F4, like in F3.


6208349115_6398cb9de5_z.jpg

(Dem edges on the track)

Oh and I found this while googling, from this very same thread:

fiesta02k89f.jpg


What is this about? Is it one of the Forza ingame models? Or is it a photo travel model from GT5 from shinn? :D
 
Maximum amount of polygons should include 16 cars online and tracks with lots of geometry. By that measure... Forza 4 pushes more polys than GT5.

We need someone to count the polys with 16 LFAs in Nord-Nurburgring. Interiors and drivers included (yes, the eyelashes too) :D
 
This thread is entertaining but everytime I see those silly comparissons, the only thing I can think is:"The next gen can't come soon enough".

Both games look great, but most of their shortcoming in graphics should be fixed in the next gen...
 
Where have all the pics gone ?

FM4 car models, rendered with a proper lighting system. Edit: and shaders, obviously.
As you can see, geometry and detail are there.


Man, i can easily see GT PS4 looking a lot like this.

This is an interesting post.

Firstly, it shows that the car modelling in Forza is at a very good level - and for apparently dirty outsourced work, it's even more impressive still. As i've long suspected, Forza's assets (models, textures etc) are well above par and they just need a better lighting engine and better shaders to shine, which next-gen and new talent will surely provide.

But that's not the most interesting part. What this post shows is that Polyphony's ineptitude is more apparent than ever when it comes to time management and resource allocation. The GT fan mantra has always been about how PD are perfectionists and need to do it all in-house at a 150 person studio with 6 months per premium car. But this outsourced approach that Turn 10 have taken with modelling is simply superior: more than double the cars, with 3 full games released in the same timeframe as GT5, and with nary a difference to the non anally retentive eye.

I don't think it will matter as much going forward since PD will just re-use their GT5 (and 6?) work on PS4. But it's funny just how much the aversion to Turn 10's outsourcing misses the mark, and saddening at just how faster GTs on PS3 could have been released - and with more premium cars per entry - if PD had done the same.
 

Reiko

Banned
We need someone to count the polys with 16 LFAs in Nord-Nurburgring. Interiors and drivers included (yes, the eyelashes too) :D

Well the Ring in Forza 4 has considerably more geometry compared to GT5, despite being inaccurate to all hell. And that's with no cars added.
 
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