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[Relaxed Muscle]

So really the only thing GT has going for it is the lighting?

IMO In-game models seems better in GT5 and that's what really matters to me. That's is what I gonna see when playing the game.

 

[Risk Breaker]

@Reiko: Nurb 24H, also prove it

I never would have thought that Forza trumps GT in the polygon department....interesting.

I'd like to see comparisons to these models for example. Interiors included, once again.

 

[eso76]

No one who has payed even mild cursory attention to both games was ever in doubt of this. Autovista cars have way more polys.

Mind you, i'm not talking autovista. The Shelby Cobra is not one of the autovista cars.
(besides, autovista cars only use more polys for interiors, engine and parts which stay hidden ingame, body is almost 100% the same).
I'm talking EVERY of the 671 cars in fm4 (and the unique ones in horizon, i don't know how many they are) has a -roughly- 450k poly version which is perfectly comparable to gt5 (best) premiums in photo travel.

FM4 autovista models - 1million polys for 23 cars
GT5 photo travel models - up to 500k polys according to PD for 200+ cars (photo travel and menu only)
FM4 LOD0 models - between 350k and 450k polys for 671 cars (photo mode, menu, ingame time trial)
GT5 ingame models - around 100k polys for premium cars ingame
FM4 ingame models - around 35k polys for all cars ingame

While accuracy varies greatly, ALL cars in fm4 have a high poly model with interior and working damage, customization etc.

 

[Sid]

Just shows how smart they are, hide what you can't see, go crazy on what you can, like the pilots/cockpits.



You came to this conclusion because?

Forza pushed more polys,is locked at 60 FPS,has no tearing etc.

 

[oneida]

kinda off-topic, I wanna buy a Fanatec wheel but I'd hate to drop $250 on the non-elite bundle and then have it not supported next gen D:

 

[shinnn]

More pics you say?


Oh and I found this while googling, from this very same thread:

What is this about? Is it one of the Forza ingame models? Or is it a photo travel model from GT5 from shinn?

FM3 replay

vs

FM4 replay

I took those pics myself. I don't panic on Forza ugliness. Also I dont try to hide them. lol

 

[Reiko]

Forza pushed more polys,is locked at 60 FPS,has no tearing etc.

It seems like Turn 10 programmed Forza 3 and Forza 4 with the performance profile of GT3 & GT4 in mind.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Forza pushed more polys,is locked at 60 FPS,has no tearing etc.

No.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Forza pushed more polys,is locked at 60 FPS,has no tearing etc.

1) Not in cars

2) GT5 is 60fps locked since patch 2.0

3) I don't see any tearing.

 

[Sid]

No.

So it doesn't...what's the source on this?I'm talking about the overall polys which both these games push at their peak.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Mind you, i'm not talking autovista. The Shelby Cobra is not one of the autovista cars.
(besides, autovista cars only use more polys for interiors, engine and parts which stay hidden ingame, body is almost 100% the same).
I'm talking EVERY of the 671 cars in fm4 (and the unique ones in horizon, i don't know how many they are) has a -roughly- 450k poly version which is perfectly comparable to gt5 (best) premiums in photo travel.

FM4 autovista models - 1million polys for 23 cars
GT5 photo travel models - up to 500k polys according to PD for 200+ cars (photo travel and menu only)
FM4 LOD0 models - between 350k and 450k polys for 671 cars (photo mode, menu, ingame time trial)
GT5 ingame models - around 100k polys for premium cars ingame
FM4 ingame models - around 35k polys for all cars ingame

While accuracy varies greatly, ALL cars in fm4 have a high poly model with interior and working damage, customization etc.

Forza is well equipped for next-gen with those cars done and dusted.

I want Dan and Co to go balls deep on tracks.

 

[Metalmurphy]

So it doesn't...what's the source on this?

Anyone that plays both games?

Hint: All the photo mode shots you see of GT5 in a race track, that's the ingame model.

Also when you add things like the cars interiors, fully visible from the outside, and the pilot...


On a side note, it's pretty awesome when your racing online at night time and you see others people dashboards all lit up n shit.




Btw, now that people decrypted GT5s files, have people started exporting the cars yet?

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Forza is well equipped for next-gen with those cars done and dusted.

I want Dan and Co to go balls deep on tracks.

Suposedly GT is also well prepared for next gen.

Can't wait.

 

[Mascot]

1) Not in cars

2) GT5 is 60fps locked since patch 2.0

3) I don't see any tearing.

1) No idea one way or the other, don't really care.
2) No it is not.
3) Look harder.

 

[velociraptor]

GT5 has so many low poly edges.

 

[Reiko]

1) Not in cars

2) GT5 is 60fps locked since patch 2.0

3) I don't see any tearing.

No it isn't. And there is still tearing.

Because driving in the rain is not 60fps...

 

[Sid]

Anyone that plays both games?

Hint: All the photo mode shots you see of GT5 in a race track, that's the ingame model.

Also when you add things like the cars interiors, fully visible from the outside, and the pilot...


It's pretty awesome when your racing online at night time and you see others people dashboards all lit up.

I played both but never kept a keen eye on this but nvm....

 

[oneida]

Mind you, i'm not talking autovista. The Shelby Cobra is not one of the autovista cars.
(besides, autovista cars only use more polys for interiors, engine and parts which stay hidden ingame, body is almost 100% the same).
I'm talking EVERY of the 671 cars in fm4 (and the unique ones in horizon, i don't know how many they are) has a -roughly- 450k poly version which is perfectly comparable to gt5 (best) premiums in photo travel.

FM4 autovista models - 1million polys for 23 cars
GT5 photo travel models - up to 500k polys according to PD for 200+ cars (photo travel and menu only)
FM4 LOD0 models - between 350k and 450k polys for 671 cars (photo mode, menu, ingame time trial)
GT5 ingame models - around 100k polys for premium cars ingame
FM4 ingame models - around 35k polys for all cars ingame

While accuracy varies greatly, ALL cars in fm4 have a high poly model with interior and working damage, customization etc.

What's this premium car nonsense? What % of GT cars are "premium" and what is the polycount of the "non-premium" cars?

 

[Red Chocobo]

And now the most pointless comparison ever (But I'm bored).

Forza's photomode model Vs GT5's Standard cars

 

[Metalmurphy]

No it isn't. And there is still tearing.

Because driving in the rain is not 60fps...

Doesn't even need to be raining actually.

 

[adelante]

I STILL cannot believe HOW people can achieve this kind of livery!!!
Just jawdropping!

Takes patience, I only created this one design to see if my illustrator skills translate well in the editor and it took me a week! -__-

I've never been a fan of any Hollywood, pop star, airbrushed or anime designs either. Race cars should have race liveries on them. Most of my cars have designs from H3rTz wherever available. I love that dude's work, and he always pumps them out for free.

Yeah he got to the point where he was earning so much credits, he didn't need them anymore lol. But I do agree, I prefer racing liveries myself and he had some fucking kick ass designs:

Even went on to create one for GT Academy:

 

[Reiko]

Doesn't even need to be raining actually.

I know that. That's the extreme test.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Takes patience, I only created this one design to see if my illustrator skills translate well in the editor and it took me a week! -__-



Yeah he got to the point where he was earning so much credits, he didn't need them anymore lol. But I do agree, I prefer racing liveries myself and he had some fucking kick ass designs:

Even went on to create one for GT Academy:

Now those are liveries.

 

[velociraptor]

Now those are liveries.

Yup. Racing liveries or bust!

 

[saladine1]

Was GT's lighting in-house or outsourced?

Geniuses either way.

I really hope Turn 10 finally realize that it's all in the lighting and shaders..

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

My observations have been like this:

- lighting is better in GT
- car shading is better in GT
- track artistic direction is better and more consistent in GT. mock the 2D trees if you wish, but they provide a cheap photo-real image that is imo prefereable to a poorly modelled 3D tree
- track textures and technical detail (3D trees, rumble strips, edges etc) are generally better in Forza
- in-game, GTs premium cars trump Forza's, while Forza shits on GTs standards. considering standards make up such a large amount of GTs cars, this is significant.
- in photo mode, the modelling is generally comparable between the two. some small differences in each other's favor on a per car basis, but generally a damn impressive result in Forza's case for outsourced models versus PD's hand made models.


Next-gen will be interesting since I think PD are better at track artistic direction and are just being hindered by technical constraints. Taste is something that is difficult to learn so T10 might fare worse here. On the other hand, Forza could potentially murder PD when it comes to the sheer amount of good quality cars they can churn out in a shorter space of time.

 

[shinnn]

Just shows how smart they are, hide what you can't see, go crazy on what you can, like the pilots/cockpits.

So you can see the details in the dashboard outside of the car while playing, but you cant see the flat tires in photomode? Shouldn't be the other way around?

 

[Red Chocobo]

Yup. Racing liveries or bust!

 

[eso76]

So it doesn't...what's the source on this?I'm talking about the overall polys which both these games push at their peak.

GT5 cars ingame have roughly 2x 2.5x the geometry than those in fm4
Tracks..hard to tell, some tracks in GT5 look great.
GT5 also has higher resolution
Unified global illumination on some tracks
Much, much much better smoke and dust effects.

So really the only thing GT has going for it is the lighting?

not just that, but it's the most important aspect today.

 

[Risk Breaker]

GT5 has so many low poly edges.

Now imagine how eye cutting must F4 look ingame with only 35k polys versus 100k of GT5.

Only GT5 also does proper high quality interiors with that poly budget.

Damn, 35k polys ingame versus 350-450k in photomode. I'd say the difference in fidelity is almost like the difference between GT5 ingame and GT5 photomode, only swapping model quality for IQ and lighting accuracy. Just that only the latter differs in GT5, and both differ in Forza.

In conclusion, both games must suck.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Was GT's lighting in-house or outsourced?

Geniuses either way.

I really hope Turn 10 finally realize that it's all in the lighting and shaders..

Everything in GT is done by PD.

One thing to take note in polycount is that interiors of cars in GT5 are far superior than the interiors of cars in FM4.

 

[Metalmurphy]

So you can see the details in the dashboard outside of the car while playing, but you cant see the flat tires in photomode? Shouldn't be the other way around?

Race photomode uses the ingame model so you get that, Photo Travel model doesn't have that.


And yes you can see other peoples dashboard/pilots while racing, hell you can even see the pilots movements when you're head to head, yet you can never see the other side of the wheel.

 

[Risk Breaker]

Everything in GT is done by PD.

One thing to take note in polycount is that interiors of cars in GT5 are far superior than the interiors of cars in FM4.

So many people forget about this that I'm starting to think that most of them don't use the cockpit cameras :/

 

[oneida]

So many people forget about this that I'm starting to think that most of them don't use the cockpit cameras :/

So what? I use cockpit cam a lot of the time but bumper cam is totally great.

 

[nOoblet16]

Forza pushed more polys,is locked at 60 FPS,has no tearing etc.

And less cars on track.

 

[oneida]

And less cars on track.

No.

 

[adelante]

So you can see the details in the dashboard outside of the car while playing, but you cant see the flat tires in photomode? Shouldn't be the other way around?

I think closeup shots typically focus on details found in cockpits, so they decided to go all out on those. Lighting is what matters most for exterior shots and fuckin hell, have PD got that part down right. There are many approaches to take with realistic lighting (in the same way how different types of lighting appeals to different people) but Kazunori and go went with the safest and therefore, best direction imho by simulating lighting under the "best conditions" (rich colors, temperature, level of reflectivity, etc):

"'Better than reality' – yeah, that's one way of putting it. In a way, it's kind of a given that it's going to look better than reality. The thing about reality is that the criteria for looking "real" are actually a lot stricter and volatile than you'd expect. The way the sun shines, reflects off something, the way it lights scenery – we seldom have the opportunity to see what we consider "reality" under the best and most aesthetically pleasing conditions.”

He went on to say: “Every time we go out to the circuit and take photos of cars, we get that same impression again. When you see a race on television, compared to a race in a game, you realise that the reality isn't as shiny or pleasant as the game. However, these "best conditions" do indeed exist. They happen every once in a while. Maybe, once a year, you'll be watching a race on TV, or you'll be outside, and a cloud will move in an ideal direction, and the sun will shine down at a perfect angle, and maybe just for a moment you'll have this beautiful scene right in front of you.”

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/914645/yamauchi_gt5_better_than_reality.html

 

[Sid]

Next gen is gonna be damn fun OTOH I wonder how much GT6 will imrpove over GT5 visually,it's a 2010 game after all.I want consistency damnit....

 

[Reiko]

And less cars on track.

GT5 actually tears with one car on track.

 

[Red Chocobo]

interiors of cars in GT5 are far superior than the interiors of cars in FM4.

Forza's still look pretty good though.

I took these using the barrier trick on Silverstone to get the camera inside:

 

[shinnn]

Everything in GT is done by PD.

One thing to take note in polycount is that interiors of cars in GT5 are far superior than the interiors of cars in FM4.

Polycount wise?

I dont think so

 

[eso76]

What's this premium car nonsense? What % of GT cars are "premium" and what is the polycount of the "non-premium" cars?

you really don't know ?
non premium cars in GT5 are 800 of the 1000 available.
The polycount ? around 4.000 polys.

 

[Sid]

Yeah GT5 is mostly made up of cross gen assets....

 

[Metalmurphy]

Polycount wise?

I dont think so

1 - Those aren't ingame models...
2 - They still look worst

 

[oneida]

you really don't know ?
non premium cars in GT5 are 800 of the 1000 available.
The polycount ? around 4.000 polys.

Okay so how often is GT5 populated with non-premiums? It seems like if the polycount is that low then FM4 is always crunching more polys unless everyone's in a premium car.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

No it isn't. And there is still tearing.

Because driving in the rain is not 60fps...

To be fair Forza 4 dosn't have rain...

And yeah. Seems I don't have bionic eyes because I don't see tearing, I don't think it must be very noticiable, because if it was preminent I would.

 

[Perkel]

When next gen will hit we won't need this thread since both games will have perfect looking cars with perfect looking lightning model with physic model which will be near or better than those or iRacing of netcar.

Pretty happy days are coming

 

[Sid]

When next gen will hit we won't need this thread since both games will have perfect looking cars with perfect looking lightning model with physic model which will be near or better than those of iRacing of netcar.

Pretty happy days are coming

It's gonna take a while....especially for PD.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Okay so how often is GT5 populated with non-premiums? It seems like if the polycount is that low then FM4 is always crunching more polys unless everyone's in a premium car.

You can have a full premium grid if you want.

 

[Reiko]

To be fair Forza 4 dosn't have rain...

And yeah. Seems I don't have bionic eyes because I don't see tearing, I don't think it must be very noticiable, because if it was preminent I would.

Pay attention to the replays too.