Relaxed Muscle
Member
I think getting lightning right is more a matter of the dev than rather tech. You either do it right or dont.
See Crysis 3.
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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35
- Thread starter bishoptl
- Start date
I think getting lightning right is more a matter of the dev than rather tech. You either do it right or dont.
See Crysis 3.
I think people arguing that Forza doesn't push polys in the interiors haven't seen those :
While they don't show all this in gameplay (no looking back inside the cockpit like in GT), the assets are all there for almost 700 cars that we know of (FM4 and FH combined car list) and the full list of cars they have modelled is probably way longer.
I've been saying for years that Forza's models are incredibly detailed and that they just need the right lighting and shaders to fully shine. Horizon's lighting engine and garage showcase this even more. All models from FM3 onward are just top notch in term of modelling, it's just the leftovers from FM and some from FM2 that are poor (dat 22b, dat F40...).
I would love to see some of Forza's model in GT5's lighting engine, it would create some amazing results I think...
While they don't show all this in gameplay (no looking back inside the cockpit like in GT), the assets are all there for almost 700 cars that we know of (FM4 and FH combined car list) and the full list of cars they have modelled is probably way longer.
I've been saying for years that Forza's models are incredibly detailed and that they just need the right lighting and shaders to fully shine. Horizon's lighting engine and garage showcase this even more. All models from FM3 onward are just top notch in term of modelling, it's just the leftovers from FM and some from FM2 that are poor (dat 22b, dat F40...).
I would love to see some of Forza's model in GT5's lighting engine, it would create some amazing results I think...
I'm not talking about cross gen stuff.
Fair 'nough.
eso76
Member
it's random, you can have all premium cars races in gt5.
FM4 interiors vary as well, but many are GT5 level, geometry wise at least.
Used to have tons of pics, but only have this handy
Metalmurphy
Member
I think people arguing that Forza doesn't push polys in the interiors haven't seen those :
While they don't show all this in gameplay (no looking back inside the cockpit like in GT), the assets are all there for almost 700 cars that we know of (FM4 and FH combined car list) and the full list of cars they have modelled is probably way longer.
I've been saying for years that Forza's models are incredibly detailed and that they just need the right lighting and shaders to fully shine. Horizon's lighting engine and garage showcase this even more. All models from FM3 onward are just top notch in term of modelling, it's just the leftovers from FM and some from FM2 that are poor (dat 22b, dat F40...).
I would love to see some of Forza's model in GT5's lighting engine, it would create some amazing results I think...
People are talking ingame, and not only of your car, both others too.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
Elite owner here and I'm pretty nervous of it being incompatible next gen, great wheel so I hope a solution (dongle or PCB swap) is found.
what... You can see what others players are doing while racing on a TV? Looking at their mimic avatars? lol.
but still, Forza AI/others players cars still there with less polygons but turning the wheel when they turn. Maybe you can look direct at the eyes of GT5 others players and see their intentions. Or see if their air conditioner is on?
Metalmurphy
Member
Do you even play these games?
Coming up close to overtake someone else and actually see the pilot having proper motions, a proper dashboard, all lit up, it ads alot to the game, a side of a wheel you never see, adds nothing.
Ask anyone that raced on the GAF league.
The in-game car dashboard is the same as photomode.
Didn't say it looks better, Thats why I said "polygon wise".
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Yeah,no tearing or frame drops in favor of a native 720p mode (only) with cheap but efficient AA.
lol
Seriously though, I haven't really noticed interiors of other car when racing. Perhaps it's because at least in single player, i'm at the front in a few seconds and stay there until the finish line.
My God , the racing is so boring.
I want El Capitain back in GT6.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Risk Breaker
Member
Jesus Christ guys, those interior Forza shots are from photomode with higher LOD models, not using the ingame models!
Let's do some basic math (courtesy of eso76) for maximum ingame poly count:
GT5 - 16 premiums x 100.000 polys
1.600.000 polys per frame
F4 - 16 cars x 35.000 polys
560.000 polys per frame
At 60 FPS, GT5 would move 96M polys per second.
At 60 FPS, F4 would move 33.6M polys per second.
Even at 30 FPS (lol), GT5 would still push 48M polys.
However people are forgetting that not all 16 cars in either game are at its full LOD. The further they move from the camera, the lower the detail, so these numbers aren't fully accurate at all. BUT the point is that GT5 still pushes a lot more polygons per second than F4 based on cars alone. And I seriously doubt any track has even 500k polygons displayed in any given frame, so...
Let's do some basic math (courtesy of eso76) for maximum ingame poly count:
GT5 - 16 premiums x 100.000 polys
1.600.000 polys per frame
F4 - 16 cars x 35.000 polys
560.000 polys per frame
At 60 FPS, GT5 would move 96M polys per second.
At 60 FPS, F4 would move 33.6M polys per second.
Even at 30 FPS (lol), GT5 would still push 48M polys.
However people are forgetting that not all 16 cars in either game are at its full LOD. The further they move from the camera, the lower the detail, so these numbers aren't fully accurate at all. BUT the point is that GT5 still pushes a lot more polygons per second than F4 based on cars alone. And I seriously doubt any track has even 500k polygons displayed in any given frame, so...
Maybe I'm not a professional driver like you. I just look at the car to know what he is doing.
And what you mean when you say "proper dashbard"? Don't others cars has downgraded polygon models of the dashboard in GT5 too?
I think so.
This is so important. Please PD, release a finished game. I don't want to be downloading patches into next gen.
SolidSnakex
Member
You'll be downloading patches for future GT's no matter what the performance is like. They're always toying around with the physics engine.
Metalmurphy
Member
The only professional driving I've done was a small cross region karting league like 10 years ago.
Peripheral vision, are you lacking it? You notice these things even without looking straight at it. Maybe you should try actually playing the games.
No, they don't. LoD changes kicks in with changes obviously as it does with all other sections of the cars, but if you get up close, it's all there.
theignoramus
Member
GT5 was a dissapointment, the driving model was awesome, but everything else about that game was real tedious. I regret my shilling for it. having spent a year playing Project CARS at pretty much max settings, the graphics dick measuring contest between the Forza/GT franchises seems like an absolute joke now.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Not only are those pictures autovista pictures but they also look worse than GT5's models:
Metalmurphy
Member
I think it looks decent enough,didn't notice anything special about the Forza one either.
Metalmurphy
Member
Not only are those pictures autovista pictures but they also look worse than GT5's models:
Because lighting...
eso76
Member
Well, interior is the same in game and photo mode, although just for your car.
That doesn't matter IMO.
it's random, you can have all premium cars races in gt5.
FM4 interiors vary as well, but many are GT5 level, geometry wise at least.
Used to have tons of pics, but only have this handy
This is autovista mode?
Risk Breaker
Member
More GT5 interior shots:
Anyway, polycount is far from being everything in 3D modelling, as any modeller (amateur or pro) will know. Materials, proper use of polys and textures are overall more important. Throwing polys and subdivs at everything is one of the most common mistakes made by rookies (I know 'cause I still do it too often).
If you pay some attention you can see poly edges in those Autovista models, so I guess 1M polys is not enough?
Anyway, polycount is far from being everything in 3D modelling, as any modeller (amateur or pro) will know. Materials, proper use of polys and textures are overall more important. Throwing polys and subdivs at everything is one of the most common mistakes made by rookies (I know 'cause I still do it too often).
If you pay some attention you can see poly edges in those Autovista models, so I guess 1M polys is not enough?
1. Race online, with GAF. No more boring races. And you certainly will not be #1 after a few seconds and stay there until the end... Offline races are IMO hard to make exciting. Most people will be pissed if they don't win after maybe two attempts. Online you can be super-excited about 7th place.
2. I see patches as a good thing. They have evolved the game and it is now a very different game compared to release.
Also: MM is 100% right about seeing the interiors of other cars. It's mostly visible at night where the lights from the dashboard cast a faint light on the other driver. Really cool detail and it adds to the imersion. Would be a nice touch if you could flip off the other guys, Webber-style
No those aren't Autovista models, just high LOD models (but cockpits only have one LOD anyway). There's a glitch in FM4 that allows to go inside cars like in GT5.
Edit :
Bolded part is so true and that's why Forza still fails to achieve photorealism IMO.
Edit :
Anyway, polycount is far from being everything in 3D modelling, as any modeller (amateur or pro) will know. Materials, proper use of polys and textures are overall more important. Throwing polys and subdivs at everything is one of the most common mistakes made by rookies (I know 'cause I still do it too often).
If you pay some attention you can see poly edges in those Autovista models, so I guess 1M polys is not enough?
Bolded part is so true and that's why Forza still fails to achieve photorealism IMO.
"Airbria"?Polycount wise?
I dont think so
Turn10 are the laziest developers ever.
before someone punches through their screen, this was a joke
More GT5 interior shots:
Anyway, polycount is far from being everything in 3D modelling, as any modeller (amateur or pro) will know. Materials, proper use of polys and textures are overall more important. Throwing polys and subdivs at everything is one of the most common mistakes made by rookies (I know 'cause I still do it too often).
If you pay some attention you can see poly edges in those Autovista models, so I guess 1M polys is not enough?
You didn't notice the additional polys when the car completely opens up?
Metalmurphy
Member
Is that why they tint the mirrors? They quite obviously do not have only one LOD. They have at least 3. Pre-race/photo mode/time trial, race mode, AI vehicles. I'm sure they have more LoDs for distant cars.
but but polygon wise (whatever the fuck that means).
What blows my mind is how PGR4 achieves more photorealism with less polys...
SolidSnakex
Member
That's just part of why GT5's interiors look great. They also put a lot of effort into making different materials match what they look like in the real world. Sometimes it works and other times it's a bit off, but it certainly helps out a lot overall.
Are you saying that if get up close to AI cars, the interior will be the same as yours car?
I need to check this out.
Peripheral vision? I'm looking at a fucking TV. My peripheral vision is outside the TV. If you think that everyone play the game like this, good luck.
Risk Breaker
Member
Because materials and 30FPS which allows twice the rendering time per frame.
eso76
Member
None of those is autovista, and neither are the one below
Gt5 has much better occlusion.
Actually, it has occlusion, while fm4 doesn't. whether it's prebaked or not, it makes a big difference especially on seats and certain materials.
2 main lods. Fixed.
And more lods for distant cars.
But he was talking about cockpits, there's only one old for those, photo mode and in game is the same.
BTW, worth mentioning that AI cars in fm4 don't have self shadowing and no cube mapping, but a generic environmental map.
Metalmurphy
Member
It's the same you see when you use photomode on the race tracks and look inside the cars.
And what do you mean "like this"?
that vw jetta wheel is symmetrical, so as you can see the right side is the image of the left. good catch.
to be fair though, we are not supposed to be able to have this camera views, we do because of an exploit.