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[Interfectum]

Well I will say this...I played the F2 demo for the first time and then the F3 demo. They do indeed look worlds apart. But F3 still has lots of room for improvement graphically speaking.

I've played the full Forza 2 game and the Forza 3 demo.

In, no way, shape or form do they look a generation apart as m0dus is claiming.

If you go by Turn 10's faked bullshots then yes they do - but as we all know now the game looks nothing like those.

 

[jakonovski]

Unless the full game got a significant upgrade from the demo then this is just hyperbole.

They do indeed look similar and the assertion that they don't 'look like they belong in the same generation' is a joke right?

For someone who has spent the average play time of a Square Enix rpg just trolling one thread, you've played precious little. You hate games don't you?

 

[antiloop]

Rewind is nice and all but I want fast-forwarding instead.

 

[Interfectum]

For someone who has spent the average play time of a Square Enix rpg just trolling one thread, you've played precious little. You hate games don't you?

This thread isn't about me it's about Forza 3 vs GT5.

The last guy who veered off topic got banned I believe.

So try to stay on topic.

 

[Woz]

Rewind is nice and all but I want fast-forwarding instead.

Thank you :lol

 

[jakonovski]

This thread isn't about me it's about Forza 3 vs GT5.

The last guy who veered off topic got banned I believe.

So try to stay on topic.

It's completely topical. You were caught trying to mislead people once, so why should anyone believe that you've played any Forza?

 

[beast786]

Rewind is nice and all but I want fast-forwarding instead.

Now that would be Generation changer feature. Being able to finish games in few minutes
:lol

 

[Dina]

This thread isn't about me it's about Forza 3 vs GT5.

The last guy who veered off topic got banned I believe.

So try to stay on topic.

This thread perfectly embodies what you are.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Take my opinion with a grain of salt since I don't actively play either GT or Forza. Yesterday though I played the demo for F3 and it looks worlds better than F2 and I thought F2 looked great for its time. While playing I thought several times that the game looked really nice.

Spoiler

runs!

 

[Always-honest]

:lol

no you're right. it will be leaps and bounds beyond prologue...

 

[TheSeks]

This thread perfectly embodies what you are.

An idiot?

As someone who now has access to the final game, I have to keep my review / specifics mum until the 8th. Until then, however, I feel the need to make something absolutely clear:

Visually speaking, forza 2 isn't even in the same class as Forza 3. Hell, it doesn't even look like it was created the same generation. All the screenshots, compressed videos, my-dick-is-bigger-than-your-dick-will-be-come-march bullshit doesn't mean jack diddly squat. Booting the game up and playing made the demo pretty much worthless to me as far as looks go. Better lighting, AA, and car models through and through, when compared to the game's contemporaries this gen. There are some specifics I would like to get into but they have to wait until thursday.

And holy hell, I wish I was not at work right now.

IWANTTOBELIEVE.JPG

m0dus, baby: Livefeed come the 8th, come on man! You know you want to shut those of us that think the IQ of Forza 3's demo is terrible up. DO IT MAN!

 

[beast786]

Take my opinion with a grain of salt since I don't actively play either GT or Forza. Yesterday though I played the demo for F3 and it looks worlds better than F2 and I thought F2 looked great for its time. While playing I thought several times that the game looked really nice.

Spoiler

runs!

Thats very true, the very first time I played A next gen racer was Forza 2. And was very impressed indeed.

 

[Always-honest]

An idiot?



IWANTTOBELIEVE.JPG

m0dus, baby: Livefeed come the 8th, come on man! You know you want to shut those of us that think the IQ of Forza 3's demo is terrible up. DO IT MAN!

i want to believe that to. though the F3 demo was allready beter looking than Forza2.
if only there could be more AA...

 

[TheSeks]

i want to believe that to. though the F3 demo was allready beter looking than Forza2.
if only there could be more AA...

See, I have to disagree. The AA made it actually look worse than Forza 2 to me. I'm odd, I like having my cars/backgrounds look consistent to each other. Forza 3's demo didn't have that. Hopefully if m0dus is right, they'll have that fixed in the final.

 

[bj00rn_]

This thread isn't about me

Actually, it saddens me to say it, this thread actually is about you. And if you haven't realized that yet, then the thread works even better than it probably was intended.

Anyway, good times; Forza 3 is a great upgrade from Forza 2 in every way, can't wait to enjoy it, GT5 is still being worked on, and there is a nice gamer-friendly "delay" between them. The scenario almost couldn't be better for fans of the racing genre with a 360 and a PS3 (Too bad Shift wasn't released a little earlier in the year though..., would be a nice fluffy intro to F3 and GT5)

 

[Ze_Pershing]

F3 demo is lacking... Seems like those sim games can't really capture the sense of speed aspect. While playing F3 demo I couldn't tell which car was faster mini or ferrari, if it wasn't for lap times I would never tell, ferrari feels faster but I could barely tell the difference.

The game is very easy, I haven't played a racing game for about 3 months, with a controller probably 6-7 months and here I am, my 2nd F3 demo try with a mini and I'm first halfway through the first lap with everything off and auto-transmission; I have yet to try manual. Is it made so easy for demo purposes?

Graphics. T10 releasing those beautiful screenshots left and right, but I noticed not many of them were actual gameplay shots, still I was hoping to see this something close at least during gameplay. Sure enough, screenshots don't represent the actual gameplay at all. Yes, scenery is nice, but you know what? I don't remember anything from the scenery when I was driving cars. On the other hand, my car, as well as cars in front of me weren't looking even close to those beautiful screenshots released by T10. What happaned there? Dashboards look like decals, two dimensional, an afterthought really. Shift demo has twice as better looking dashboards. It does look better compared to F2, but not by leaps and bounds as many here suggest.

Didn't really want to touch graphics but there are too many misleading posts already on this subject in this thread alone so I decided to chime in.

...but why is it so easy?

 

[Omar Ismail]

...but why is it so easy?

Put the AI to hard and then try again. If you're STILL able to get into first halfway through the first lap then I'll be extremely impressed.


As for rewind. It is a genre defining feature.

I played the NFS Shift demo to see if I should rent it to tide me over until F3 hit, and I honestly couldn't play without rewind. I was halfway through the second lap, screwed up and got put into last place after being in first. Realizing I'd have to do the ENTIRE race over, I said screw it and played the F3 demo.

Rewind makes racing games fun and anybody that argues that is a complete moron. Full stop.

I will say that I like the graphics of Shift better than F3 surprisingly enough. Cockpit view was worse though.

So talking about GT5... if it doesn't have rewind then I honestly couldn't care less about it.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

Rewind makes racing games fun and anybody that argues that is a complete moron. Full stop.

This is a racing simulation where racers face the full consequences of their mistakes and try to make up for it with shorter lap times.

I think you're just terrible at racing sims. NFS is so damn easy.

 

[Ze_Pershing]

Put the AI to hard and then try again. If you're STILL able to get into first halfway through the first lap then I'll be extremely impressed.

oh yeah, possible that I missed this setting, I don't recall changing it. Thanks.

 

[LCfiner]

This is a racing simulation where racers face the full consequences of their mistakes and try to make up for it with shorter lap times.

I think you're just terrible at racing sims. NFS is so damn easy.

But what if you want to appeal to more people than just those who'll spend 400 dollars on a steering wheel?

rewind is a great feature for most casual or semi-casual race fans who don't want to spend 10 minutes redoing a long race because of a poorly timed sneeze on lap 5.

and, thankfully, it never has to be used by those who want to race completely clean.

 

[Doc Evils]

Put the AI to hard and then try again. If you're STILL able to get into first halfway through the first lap then I'll be extremely impressed.


As for rewind. It is a genre defining feature.

I played the NFS Shift demo to see if I should rent it to tide me over until F3 hit, and I honestly couldn't play without rewind. I was halfway through the second lap, screwed up and got put into last place after being in first. Realizing I'd have to do the ENTIRE race over, I said screw it and played the F3 demo.

Rewind makes racing games fun and anybody that argues that is a complete moron. Full stop.

I will say that I like the graphics of Shift better than F3 surprisingly enough. Cockpit view was worse though.

So talking about GT5... if it doesn't have rewind then I honestly couldn't care less about it.

The rewind feature comes from an arcade racer, therefore it is an arcade feature. No sim racer has, or ever will use it.

It's quite amusing how a certain group in this thread has resulted to personal insults.

 

[gutterboy44]

Rewind makes racing games fun and anybody that argues that is a complete moron. Full stop.

Couldn't disagree with you more. I am so sick of this trend towards consequence free gaming. The most recent Prince of Persia was horribly boring solely because of that fact. What is the point of embracing a challenge if you can just "cheat" your way out of any mistake. And rewind is simply that, a cheat. What makes racing so brilliant is stringing together that perfect lap. It is thrilling and challenging. If I can rewind when I fuck up the final chicane at Suzuka, why even bother. Why not just splice together some replays showing the perfect lap. Racing sim and rewind have no business together. Moreover, why model all this damage and shit if you're just going to rewind as soon as any is inflicted?

The excitement of a pass is proportional to the risk taken. The rewind mechanic eliminates the risk, thus the excitement.

I like to keep the sim in my racing sims. Just personal opinion, and calling someone a moron because they like proper racing is a bit base.

 

[Keikoku]

Holy crap, I didn't think it possible for this thread to go any lower, but it has.

Never underestimate them.

 

[chubigans]

Couldn't disagree with you more. I am so sick of this trend towards consequence free gaming. The most recent Prince of Persia was horribly boring solely because of that fact. What is the point of embracing a challenge if you can just "cheat" your way out of any mistake. And rewind is simply that, a cheat. What makes racing so brilliant is stinging together that perfect lap. It is thrilling and challenging. If I can rewind when I fuck up the final chicane at Suzuka, why even bother. Why not just splice together some replays showing the perfect lap. Racing sim and rewind have no business together. Moreover, why model all this damage and shit if you're just going to rewind as soon as any is inflicted?

I like to keep the sim in my racing sims. Just personal opinion, and calling someone a moron because they like proper racing is a bit base.

Yes! Great reply, and I couldn't agree more.

That's like having an interest free bank loan option in GTA, or having infinite continues in arcade ports. What is the point of a game that doesn't allow you to fail at least once?

 

[Interfectum]

The rewind feature comes from an arcade racer, therefore it is an arcade feature. No sim racer has, or ever will use it.

It's quite amusing how a certain group in this thread has resulted to personal insults.

Agreed.

Rewind is for beginners and doesn't belong in a sim racer.

But Forza 3 (from the demo) has a very arcade feel to it anyway so its inclusion makes sense there.

 

[Keikoku]

But Forza 3 (from the demo) has a very arcade feel to it anyway so its inclusion makes sense there.

Keep saying that to yourself, you might believe it at the end.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

But what if you want to appeal to more people than just those who'll spend 400 dollars on a steering wheel?

rewind is a great feature for most casual or semi-casual race fans who don't want to spend 10 minutes redoing a long race because of a poorly timed sneeze on lap 5.

and, thankfully, it never has to be used by those who want to race completely clean.

Also, FM3's leaderboards have a built in Superintendent who makes sure that any lap using any assist or rewind does not go on the pristine leaderboard that all "serious" racers who care about lap times will care about. Any scrubs like me using rewind won't even show up on the "real" leaderboards.

 

[RSTEIN]

The rewind feature comes from an arcade racer, therefore it is an arcade feature. No sim racer has, or ever will use it.

I don't understand this. My phone allows me to surf the Internet, use voice and use text. Typing text came from typewriters so therefore my phone isn't a phone because it features something that came from a different device? Modern day Ferraris aren't Ferraris because they feature F1 shifting and computer whiz bang stuff that the 250 GTO didn't have?

How is GT5P a sim when it didn't feature damage and Forza 2 did? How can Forza 2 be called a sim when it didn't feature cockpits?

Introducing a feature like rewind doesn't make Forza 3 any less of a "sim." I think of it as a practice aid. If I don't like turn 5 on track XYZ then I can practice it for hours on end in a very easy way. Formula 1 drivers use video to practice before the race. They can go over the same corner 1 million times before the race starts. Are they cheating?

When the real race (online) starts you can't rewind. The single player experience is there for you to practice for real racing.

 

[LCfiner]

Also, FM3's leaderboards have a built in Superintendent who makes sure that any lap using any assist or rewind does not go on the pristine leaderboard that all "serious" racers who care about lap times will care about. Any scrubs like me using rewind won't even show up on the "real" leaderboards.

exactly. this is important. anyone who cares enough about perfecting lap times and hitting the leaderboards won't be using rewind at all. that stays clean.

it's just an option for those of us who like racing games but hate that boneheaded mistake near the end of a long race.

 

[Keikoku]

it's just an option for those of us who like racing games but hate that boneheaded mistake near the end of a long race.

Yep this. I'll probably use the rewind feature in this case only.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

exactly. this is important. anyone who cares enough about perfecting lap times and hitting the leaderboards won't be using rewind at all. that stays clean.

it's just an option for those of us who like racing games but hate that boneheaded mistake near the end of a long race.

Ding!

T10 clearly thought all of through and perfected the best solution they could come up with.

 

[bj00rn_]

Couldn't disagree with you more. I am so sick of this trend towards consequence free gaming. The most recent Prince of Persia was horribly boring solely because of that fact. What is the point of embracing a challenge if you can just "cheat" your way out of any mistake. And rewind is simply that, a cheat. What makes racing so brilliant is stringing together that perfect lap. It is thrilling and challenging. If I can rewind when I fuck up the final chicane at Suzuka, why even bother. Why not just splice together some replays showing the perfect lap. Racing sim and rewind have no business together. Moreover, why model all this damage and shit if you're just going to rewind as soon as any is inflicted?

The excitement of a pass is proportional to the risk taken. The rewind mechanic eliminates the risk, thus the excitement.

I like to keep the sim in my racing sims. Just personal opinion, and calling someone a moron because they like proper racing is a bit base.

I agree; We shouldn't be able to restart games if we crash. If the car is damaged; Wait days, weeks, months or so (Depending on your real world finances (Game should be linked/can poll data from your real world finances)) before being able to "repair", but not restart the race; only the next race - but not until the correct calendar date, which is fixed to the real world calender. If you die in the crash it should be registrated on a server and the game can't be used again - And you'll be automatically blacklisted from buying a new game in stores as well.

 

[skyfinch]

Couldn't disagree with you more. I am so sick of this trend towards consequence free gaming. The most recent Prince of Persia was horribly boring solely because of that fact. What is the point of embracing a challenge if you can just "cheat" your way out of any mistake. And rewind is simply that, a cheat. What makes racing so brilliant is stringing together that perfect lap. It is thrilling and challenging. If I can rewind when I fuck up the final chicane at Suzuka, why even bother. Why not just splice together some replays showing the perfect lap. Racing sim and rewind have no business together. Moreover, why model all this damage and shit if you're just going to rewind as soon as any is inflicted?

The excitement of a pass is proportional to the risk taken. The rewind mechanic eliminates the risk, thus the excitement.

I like to keep the sim in my racing sims. Just personal opinion, and calling someone a moron because they like proper racing is a bit base.

Prince of Persia? You mean falling off a cliff and having the game automatically catch you before you fall? There's a huge difference.
You make it seem like the Forza automatically rewinds after you crash.
Rewind is an option. You really think players who are in it for the fastest times actually use rewind?

 

[jaypah]

The rewind feature comes from an arcade racer, therefore it is an arcade feature. No sim racer has, or ever will use it.

It's quite amusing how a certain group in this thread has resulted to personal insults.

racing games in general come from an arcade racer. every racing game is now an arcade racer confirmed. *mind blown*

and as for your second point, the insults didn't start there. reading through the thread they're coming from both sides. and personally this whole thread is an insult. but it's also fun watching y'all fanboys march on so proudly for video game companies so i honestly can't stop checking it. and before you put your tin-foil hat on i honestly believe that GT5 will be the better game all around once it's all said and done.

 

[Omar Ismail]

Couldn't disagree with you more. I am so sick of this trend towards consequence free gaming. The most recent Prince of Persia was horribly boring solely because of that fact. What is the point of embracing a challenge if you can just "cheat" your way out of any mistake. And rewind is simply that, a cheat. What makes racing so brilliant is stringing together that perfect lap. It is thrilling and challenging. If I can rewind when I fuck up the final chicane at Suzuka, why even bother. Why not just splice together some replays showing the perfect lap. Racing sim and rewind have no business together. Moreover, why model all this damage and shit if you're just going to rewind as soon as any is inflicted?

The excitement of a pass is proportional to the risk taken. The rewind mechanic eliminates the risk, thus the excitement.

I like to keep the sim in my racing sims. Just personal opinion, and calling someone a moron because they like proper racing is a bit base.

The argument as to why rewind naysayers are morons is thus:

Games are about fun.
Rewind makes the game more fun for certain segment of players.
Rewind doesn't take away the fun from anyone, because there are still consequences to using the feature, so the hardcore can't use it to post top laptimes, etc.

Therefore if you were to take the "fun"-average, that is take the amount of fun playing Forza from everyone and average it out, this average has gone up with the rewind function.

Therefore Forza is more fun. Period.

Games are about fun, and therefore Forza is a better game for it.

Anybody that doesn't want their games to be better is a moron.

Anybody that argues against rewind doesn't want Forza to be a better game.

Therefore, anybody that argues against rewind is a moron.

QED.

 

[gutterboy44]

I don't understand this. My phone allows me to surf the Internet, use voice and use text. Typing text came from typewriters so therefore my phone isn't a phone because it features something that came from a different device? Modern day Ferraris aren't Ferraris because they feature F1 shifting and computer whiz bang stuff that the 250 GTO didn't have?

How is GT5P a sim when it didn't feature damage and Forza 2 did? How can Forza 2 be called a sim when it didn't feature cockpits?

Introducing a feature like rewind doesn't make Forza 3 any less of a "sim." I think of it as a practice aid. If I don't like turn 5 on track XYZ then I can practice it for hours on end in a very easy way. Formula 1 drivers use video to practice before the race. They can go over the same corner 1 million times before the race starts. Are they cheating?

When the real race (online) starts you can't rewind. The single player experience is there for you to practice for real racing.

Although your analogy is a bit off, you make a fair point. It is essential that the leader boards are separated. However, I feel it is much better practice to learn to maintain the concentration for an entire hot lap or race and much more importantly, learn how to "save" your car when it starts to go wrong. You will never perfect a tank slapper recovery if when it starts to hit the fan you undo your mistake instead of learning from it and feeling out the consequence. This by no means "ruins" FZ3 and I won't flip out of PD throw it in one of their GT games. I guess it mostly stems from the fact that I am a racing enthusiast first and a racing sim enthusiasts second.

 

[LCfiner]

I agree; We shouldn't be able to restart games if we crash. If the car is damaged; Wait days, weeks, months or so (Depending on your real world finances (Game should be linked/can poll data from your real world finances)) before being able to "repair", but not restart the race; only the next race - but not until the correct calendar date, which is fixed to the real world calender. If you die in the crash, the game can't be used again - And you'll be blacklisted from buying the game in the stores as well.

perfect. got straight to perfectly logical conclusion from all the whiners. :lol

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

You really think players who are in it for the fastest times actually use rewind?

And if they're serious about times, as I pointed out, they actually can't. So Rewind really is almost completely a non-issue in the Sim/Not-Sim argument as far as FM3 goes.

 

[Fun Factor]

Couldn't disagree with you more. I am so sick of this trend towards consequence free gaming. The most recent Prince of Persia was horribly boring solely because of that fact. What is the point of embracing a challenge if you can just "cheat" your way out of any mistake. And rewind is simply that, a cheat. What makes racing so brilliant is stringing together that perfect lap. It is thrilling and challenging. If I can rewind when I fuck up the final chicane at Suzuka, why even bother. Why not just splice together some replays showing the perfect lap. Racing sim and rewind have no business together. Moreover, why model all this damage and shit if you're just going to rewind as soon as any is inflicted?

The excitement of a pass is proportional to the risk taken. The rewind mechanic eliminates the risk, thus the excitement.

I like to keep the sim in my racing sims. Just personal opinion, and calling someone a moron because they like proper racing is a bit base.

That's like saying not having a set amount of lives in Halo or Final Fantasy to permanently die & have to start over from start all over is bad.

In an arcade game, a mistake can be a small thing & you can easily get back in the races, but with a sim (at least one without catch up A.I.), one small mistake & your screwed! Just press start & select restart, don't even bother trying to get back in the race unless your o.k. with getting 4th place.
This type of game themselves are a lot about redundancy, playing the same tracks over & over with different cars. Cutting out the amount of restarting in a one single race over from just the smallest mistakes is a good thing IMHO & should be in every sim racer.


Someone mentioned Shift & playing the demo, the A.I. can easily bump me off the road near the start of the race. There is no point in continuing on, since it's not that far into the race that you wasted a massive amount of invested time & close enough at the starting line where there is no point in NOT restarting.

Rewind just streamlines that & saves you time on something you would have done anyway.

 

[commedieu]

Keep saying that to yourself, you might believe it at the end.

I think the gaming industry in general says it. Which is why after 3 Forza's, Gran Turismo is still the driving simulator that Turn10 has to tackle/disparage at every corner. This wouldn't be the case if Forza truly was seen as its own product that stands on its own simulation merits no?

Lets say Forza1-3 was a better simulation than GT.(lol) Why hasn't it turned the Gran Turismo crowd & the PC crowd over to the series in mass numbers? Why did the retail release of Forza2 barely outpace Gran Turismo's "demo" with a console that had a smaller userbase? You know why, and I know why.

Gran Turismo is still the bigger franchise, with its reputation of being a racing simulation & the driving simulation intact even after its 4th installment scored lower than Forza in the media's eyes. Which is why Ferrari choose to debut their vehicle in the game, and why Citroen chooses GT to design a car, why Nissan picks polyphony to deliver the interface for the GTR, why KY himself wins races & puts Gran Turismo fans into driving school to turn around and win races. Yet, we are still here pointing out that while Forza has great features, and is one hell of a game, it doesn't stack up to the universe that Gran Turismo has created. Its just not in the same ballpark, and I think thats what gets under Forza fans' skin.

Im shocked its still going on. You have TURN10 openly lying about the games visuals, then you have the specs of the game, then you have the same exact features from the previous version(community) being touted as the deal sealer for F3(when F2 barely outsold GT5's demo). And you have PD speaking with videos/screenshots which all put forza to shame. Now I see the focus has shifted to GRID's REWIND feature? Come on.

You know this whole thing start(ed) with Forza/Turn10's negative comments towards GT that literally can't be backed up by the game. The only feature that Forza had over GT is its online setup/auctions, which is still the only feature it has over GT. 8 cars & 720p isn't exactly breaking records here.

 

[jaypah]

And if they're serious about times, as I pointed out, they actually can't. So Rewind really is almost completely a non-issue in the Sim/Not-Sim argument as far as FM3 goes.

what if you can't stop yourself from hitting the button? because that has to be the problem.

in other words, arguing about rewind is like arguing about racing line indicators. it's a pretty stupid argument. they're teaching aids and only get attacked when one side uses it as a bullet point or the other side doesn't think it should be a bullet point. the truth is it's just a teaching aid in a game and you don't ever have to use it. it shouldn't even be considered usable by either side as ammo. what next? difficulty options? sound menus? :lol

Lets say Forza1-3 was a better simulation than GT.(lol) Why hasn't it turned the Gran Turismo crowd & the PC crowd over to the series in mass numbers? Why did the retail release of Forza2 barely outpace Gran Turismo's "demo" with a console that had a smaller userbase? You know why, and I know why.

are you reading this thread? it's living proof that no matter what Forza does GT fanatics will not give it any credit in any category. plus GT is the franchise to beat and a long running exclusive to one of the most rabid, loyal and (now) crazy fan bases. also i don't see the PC sim crowd fawning over either. sure there are people who enjoy both or all 3 but it's not like the hardcore PC sim crowd are going to put away their set-up once GT5 drops either. people play what they like and a lot of people like GT. it's a great franchise.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I think the gaming industry in general says it. Which is why after 3 Forza's, Gran Turismo is still the driving simulator that Turn10 has to tackle/disparage at every corner. This wouldn't be the case if Forza truly was seen as its own product that stands on its own simulation merits no?

Lets say Forza1-3 was a better simulation than GT.(lol) Why hasn't it turned the Gran Turismo crowd & the PC crowd over to the series in mass numbers? Why did the retail release of Forza2 barely outpace Gran Turismo's "demo" with a console that had a smaller userbase? You know why, and I know why.

Gran Turismo is still the bigger franchise, with its reputation of being a racing simulation & the driving simulation intact even after its 4th installment scored lower than Forza in the media's eyes. Which is why Ferrari choose to debut their vehicle in the game, and why Citroen chooses GT to design a car, why Nissan picks polyphony to deliver the interface for the GTR, why KY himself wins races & puts Gran Turismo fans into driving school to turn around and win races. Yet, we are still here pointing out that while Forza has great features, and is one hell of a game, it doesn't stack up to the universe that Gran Turismo has created. Its just not in the same ballpark, and I think thats what gets under Forza fans' skin.

Im shocked its still going on. You have TURN10 openly lying about the games visuals, then you have the specs of the game, then you have the same exact features from the previous version(community) being touted as the deal sealer for F3(when F2 barely outsold GT5's demo). And you have PD speaking with videos/screenshots which all put forza to shame. Now I see the focus has shifted to GRID's REWIND feature? Come on.

You know this whole thing start(ed) with Forza/Turn10's negative comments towards GT that literally can't be backed up by the game. The only feature that Forza had over GT is its online setup/auctions, which is still the only feature it has over GT. 8 cars & 720p isn't exactly breaking records here.

And Guitar Hero roundly outsells Rock Band. Franchises can have pedigree and brand recognition but that really shouldn't factor into their relative merits.

what if you can't stop yourself from hitting the button? because that has to be the problem.

in other words, arguing about rewind is like arguing about racing line indicators. it's a pretty stupid argument. they're teaching aids and only get attacked when one side uses it as a bullet point or the other side doesn't think it should be a bullet point. the truth is it's just a teaching aid in a game and you don't ever have to use it. it shouldn't even be considered usable by either side as ammo. what next? difficulty options? sound menus? :lol

:lol

Well put.

 

[hie]

But Forza 3 (from the demo) has a very arcade feel to it anyway so its inclusion makes sense there.

:lol

The Porsche w/ everything off is 'very arcade'? May I see your times, please?

also, I could be wrong, but rewind won't be used for online racing. Or at least it can be disabled. I look at it like the marker system in Skate. It can be used to master particularly hard sections of track.

Eh...whatever though. This thread is going to be a bit 'dead' after Oct. 27 anyways.

 

[evolution]

If you suck at racing in GT lower the difficulty and switch to the easier driving model. Theres too many others features PD should be focused on, screw rewind.

 

[gutterboy44]

The argument as to why rewind naysayers are morons is thus:

Games are about fun.
Rewind makes the game more fun for certain segment of players.
Rewind doesn't take away the fun from anyone, because there are still consequences to using the feature, so the hardcore can't use it to post top laptimes, etc.

Therefore if you were to take the "fun"-average, that is take the amount of fun playing Forza from everyone and average it out, this average has gone up with the rewind function.

Therefore Forza is more fun. Period.

Games are about fun, and therefore Forza is a better game for it.

Anybody that doesn't want their games to be better is a moron.

Anybody that argues against rewind doesn't want Forza to be a better game.

Therefore, anybody that argues against rewind is a moron.

QED.

I'm sorry but I really don't understand how accessibility for beginners equates to "more fun" I think you are confusing accessibility with enjoyment. Nothing is more fun and enjoying to me (and I am sure many others) than a challenging racing sim. The entire allure of GPL was its knife edge racing and brutal consequences.

The option for rewind, from the inclusive point is fine. Yes, it may be a beneficial tool for beginners but based on the intensity of this debate about physics, graphics, damge, etc, many fans of the racing sim genre enjoy the simulation challenge. So if the majority of players will neglect to even use this mechanic (an assumption, I know) how is it going to vastly contribute to the "fun" factor of the game.

I believe GRID had this same option and it didn't make the game anymore fun for me. Like I mentioned in a previous post, the mechanic certainly doesn't ruin the game or even hinder it, but it by no means enhances the fun of it either. I prefer to not have it, and I am not a moron for thinking so.

 

[skyfinch]

If you suck at racing in GT lower the difficulty and switch to the easier driving model. Theres too many others features PD should be focused on, screw rewind.

Also turn damage to cosmetic only.

 

[hie]

things

Where do the 'started on GT on PSX...went on to shitloads of PC sims...and ended up thinking Forza 2 smokes GT sim-wise' people stand in that description?

As a pretty hardcore GPL, GTR, rFactor, etc...player, Forza 2 simply felt much more legit than any previous GT.

I don't see any of that in your post. That's a true story.

 

[jaypah]

If you suck at racing in GT lower the difficulty and switch to the easier driving model. Theres too many others features PD should be focused on, screw rewind.

but having both is cool, right? i'm sure PD could implement it along with all the other awesome shit they do and it wouldn't hinder the production of the game that much. if they can get all of that detail on all of those cars (inside and out) then surely something like adding a rewind feature would be easy right?

or maybe not. i'm no game designer and for all i know it could be hell to implement that. i just wish more racing games had one touch rewind. for someone like me it's cool to rewind and get a better understanding of how i was supposed to take that turn. i've gotten better for using it. but i don't play as seriously as you. someone like you wouldn't have to use it at all, assuming you ever play Forza.

 

[imtehman]

Couldn't disagree with you more. I am so sick of this trend towards consequence free gaming. The most recent Prince of Persia was horribly boring solely because of that fact. What is the point of embracing a challenge if you can just "cheat" your way out of any mistake. And rewind is simply that, a cheat. What makes racing so brilliant is stringing together that perfect lap. It is thrilling and challenging. If I can rewind when I fuck up the final chicane at Suzuka, why even bother. Why not just splice together some replays showing the perfect lap. Racing sim and rewind have no business together. Moreover, why model all this damage and shit if you're just going to rewind as soon as any is inflicted?

The excitement of a pass is proportional to the risk taken. The rewind mechanic eliminates the risk, thus the excitement.

I like to keep the sim in my racing sims. Just personal opinion, and calling someone a moron because they like proper racing is a bit base.

you don't have to use the rewind feature. Its optional unlike the girl that helps the prince everytime you fall to yoru death.

Batman AA uses his grapple when he falls down a bottomless pit too, does that detract from the experience?

I would much prefer rewinding to do turns than restart the whole race because i messed up.

But like i said, if you don't want to use rewind, you don't have to thank goodness for options

 

[commedieu]

That's like saying ............

Not at all. And you pretty much sum up the mindset with GT fans vs Forza fans with that statement. A Lap time is really a thing of beauty. Its your 1 chance to fire on all cylinders to create a perfect unison of man, machine, and road.

If you cant agree that getting an awesome lap time is hard work that requires you to be perfect just once, I just dont know what to say to that? Its why racing sims are deemed boring by people because there isn't exploding cars or boost buttons. Its because its a personal challenge to you as a operator. Doing things over and over again is the reason you simulate it.

Example:

When I mess up on a turn, im pissed. I know I have to do EVERYTHING right again on the next lap up until the point i screwed up and learn from my mistake. But thats the most important part. Mastering the track over and over up to the part to where you screwed up. Its a breeze, then you add in the new knowledge learned from mastering the problematic part and boom goes the dynamite.

Once I beat my laptimes a few times I'm thrilled and confident in my ability to take the track down.

Rewind is a good feature for arcade racers, or those looking to add features like automatic driving so easy that 6 year olds can play. Which is why its perfect for Forza. Since turn10 wants to capture the casual audience. And have publicly said so.