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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35

AZ Greg

Member
mujun said:
I hope they add a rewind function to GT5, this thread will be a copy and paste gold mine.

People arguing for less options are just plain stupid in my book. Exercising your own will is much better than cutting down your audience.

Despite the fact that I wouldn't use the rewind feature, IAWTP.

And rather than waiting until PD add the rewind function and then taking quotes to laugh at you can already do it now with all the GT fans who blasted the racing line in the original Forza. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that GT5 will have one, right? Hell, I remember some of the hardest of hardcore GT fans saying they didn't want damage (though this was when it looked like they might not get it this generation) because you aren't supposed to crash. But that's human nature. Love what you have, hate what you don't. That goes for both sides.
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
AZ Greg said:
Despite the fact that I wouldn't use the rewind feature, IAWTP.

And rather than waiting until PD add the rewind function and then taking quotes to laugh at you can already do it now with all the GT fans who blasted the racing line in the original Forza. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere that GT5 will have one, right? Hell, I remember some of the hardest of hardcore GT fans saying they didn't want damage (though this was when it looked like they might not get it this generation) because you aren't supposed to crash. But that's human nature. Love what you have, hate what you don't.

One of the older GT's had the line in a test mode (license most likely) and I didn't like it then. When I saw it in the GT5 demo I thought it was stupid that they had it out front like that (seem like it was on by default). Not all people like the colored lines in their racing games. It's distracting to me, I rather have it off.
 

m0dus

Banned
I'm gone for one evening, come back, and find you people arguing over FUCKING REWIND!??!

Unbelievable. Seriously, what the hell? you can't even argue over a feature that ISN'T already in like 3 OTHER FUCKING GAMES? One that nobody gave two shits about before?

And let me clarify something, because this IWANTTOBELIEVE.JPG nonsense has really got to just die.---the presentation of the demo simply does not encompass the quality in the final game. I'm not talking about magically adding more AA or what have you. I am stating, simply, that the different tracks (which offer some far better lighting scenarios) as well as the plethora of just better looking cars you have at your disposal take the overall visual experience up a notch. It makes for a far better impression than the demo, period.

Oh, and it wipes the floor with Forza 2. That I CAN easily attest to.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
evolution said:
And you missed my point. Don't worry im not knocking the game. I just find it strange that theres time trial rankings that takes rewinds into account.
I just don't see the problem or what's weird about it. If the ability's there to have a leaderboard and it's not that much work to implement, why not throw it in? Hell, everyone can just call it the cheaters leaderboards if it makes them feel better as long as it doesn't affect the legit leaderboards.
 

Duelist

Member
XiaNaphryz said:
I just don't see the problem or what's weird about it. If the ability's there to have a leaderboard and it's not that much work to implement, why not throw it in? Hell, everyone can just call it the cheaters leaderboards if it makes them feel better as long as it doesn't affect the legit leaderboards.

I think you missed the part where options are bad.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Duelist said:
I think you missed the part where options are bad.
Right - I keep forgetting that there's no use for logic in this thread.

m0dus, we should just stay away from here. :lol
 

evolution

Member
XiaNaphryz said:
I just don't see the problem or what's weird about it. If the ability's there to have a leaderboard and it's not that much work to implement, why not throw it in? Hell, everyone can just call it the cheaters leaderboards if it makes them feel better as long as it doesn't affect the legit leaderboards.
I didn't say it was a problem did I? It is a strange leaderboard to have, who the hell is gonna care about those times when they weren't completed on a clean lap. I think im just accustomed to how other games do it.
 

Vlightray

Member
m0dus said:
I'm gone for one evening, come back, and find you people arguing over FUCKING REWIND!??!

Unbelievable. Seriously, what the hell? you can't even argue over a feature that ISN'T already in like 3 OTHER FUCKING GAMES? One that nobody gave two shits about before?

And let me clarify something, because this IWANTTOBELIEVE.JPG nonsense has really got to just die.---the presentation of the demo simply does not encompass the quality in the final game. I'm not talking about magically adding more AA or what have you. I am stating, simply, that the different tracks (which offer some far better lighting scenarios) as well as the plethora of just better looking cars you have at your disposal take the overall visual experience up a notch. It makes for a far better impression than the demo, period.

Oh, and it wipes the floor with Forza 2. That I CAN easily attest to.

Bolded for Truth.
 

mujun

Member
Ploid 3.0 said:
The argument of more options is always good isn't a good argument. Unlimited credits, unlock all cars, make opponents slower could be options but having them in this kind of game wouldn't make it good. It would work in GTA though, rewind too.

It makes it more accessible. I gave up on GT4 because it's difficulty got to a point where I felt no desire to keep playing it.

Purists who argue for games to be free of these options are stupid imo.

If a game is dumbed down, that is a whole different story but letting both groups get enjoyment out of a game is good business wise and in terms of how much of an audience you can reach.

Same as fighters, they should have EO type stuff in all the games if you ask me (like the gamecube version of CVS2), just let people filter it out of their online games or turn it off in the options if they so desire. Again if you have a strong enough will it is easy not to give in and use this type of stuff.

Do you think cheat codes should be abolished too? An unlimited credits option is no different than an unlock credits or unlock all cars cheat.

Your crusading comes off as trying to detract from Forza 3 than it does trying to protest these types of options in games.
 

cakefoo

Member
AMUSIX said:
Thank you for your response...I guess it was exactly what I was looking for to help me fill in some gaps. However, I'm still a bit sketchy on some. It seems that what you're saying is that since ABS/TCS/Auto exist in real life, they're accepted in the game...but so many of these cars don't have these features in real life...and a lot of racing series simply don't allow them.
Yes, but you can understand there's a huge difference between providing traction control for a car that didn't originally have it, and giving the ability to rewind time to all 400+ cars in the game.

Say time travel became possible in real life. Would we have people without TT-equipped cars being competing against people with? I can just imagine the shit-talking before the race:


The thing that still sticks with me is that anything where the game take an active role between the player's input and the control of the vehicle is a hell of a lot more like cheating than allowing a driver to take a do-over
Racer 1: I have Time Travel!
Racer 2: Like that's gonna help you against my car's traction control!

(something that has been in every game, racing or not, since the coin-op days). Continue?
It'd be more like Braid, because in most games with a Continue function you have to replay a good portion of the world.

As for racing lines, there's a massive difference between them and guidance from your pit boss/co-pilot. Of course it doesn't give you the perfect line (I don't think it changes any if you modify your car...does it?) but it does feel like one step away from Disneyland's Autopia. As someone who's logged literally hundreds of hours out at Laguna Seca and Buttonwillow, I'd say that, if any of these assists were 'cheaty', the racing line would be it. It provides so much data and so much direction that it's practically hand-holding the player around the track.
All it does is equips you with a basic knowledge any experienced racer would know. It's very helpful in learning a track, but I turn it off after that period of time because it can be distracting, and it isn't always the best route or brake/accelerate timing anyway. It's kind of like how in MLB The Show you have batter and pitcher strike zones to help you know that player's strengths and weaknesses. They study their opponents before the series and can use this data for coaching their team.

If rewind ever became an option in sports videogame, that'd cause a similar ruckus. Say hello to perfect seasons! Games will no longer be about hope, but about getting an early lead and just rushing half-assed through the rest of it like it's a chore. I mean, if I had the power to rewind a game-winning grandslam in the bottom of the 9th, I'd do it because why would I want to lose if I didn't have to? But I'd also have no sense of accomplishment whatsoever, and would quickly lose interest in the game because lacks the challenge necessary to keep me motivated.

I stop using the assists in a racing sim when I become skilled enough that I can be faster without them. But at no point will rewind become something that hinders your driving. Just knowing it's at your fingertips will subconsciously destroy any sense of risk you normally would have in a sim racer. And since it's so tempting to use it, that is why I don't like that it's even an option.
 

Thunderbear

Mawio Gawaxy iz da Wheeson hee pways games
If it were to be included in GT5 it should be on training only IMO, and not in competitive or ranked games.

I personally think it's a lame feature (Blinx! jk) but if lots of people want it then the option should be there. Just not for some/most of the trophies and the rankings.
 
And we have a graphics winner:

1484933651_b75f6f546a_o.jpg


No wait.....that's neither GT5 or Forza 3, it's PGR4! :O
 

evolution

Member
I love PGR4, but no. Its 30fps, and the car models are no match for what PD and T10 have achieved. But for a game released years ago it still looks good.
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
mujun said:
It makes it more accessible. I gave up on GT4 because it's difficulty got to a point where I felt no desire to keep playing it.

Purists who argue for games to be free of these options are stupid imo.

If a game is dumbed down, that is a whole different story but letting both groups get enjoyment out of a game is good business wise and in terms of how much of an audience you can reach.

Same as fighters, they should have EO type stuff in all the games if you ask me (like the gamecube version of CVS2), just let people filter it out of their online games or turn it off in the options if they so desire. Again if you have a strong enough will it is easy not to give in and use this type of stuff.

Do you think cheat codes should be abolished too? An unlimited credits option is no different than an unlock credits or unlock all cars cheat.

Your crusading comes off as trying to detract from Forza 3 than it does trying to protest these types of options in games.

Hey I don't care what's in Forza, it's people trying to force rewind into GT that's getting me to comment on it. I don't want it in there, nor the racing line on by default. If I screw up at the end of a long race and end up in 4th place from my 1st place position I'd be stupid not to use the rewind. The game will be easier because of it, I'd rather have to plan better, make the car drive better, and learn a more efficient pit strategy.

I love cheat codes in games like GTA which is why I brought that up. GT never had a cheat code and it was good because it's not the type of game you should use cheats in. You earn everything.

cakefoo said:
If rewind ever became an option in sports videogame, that'd cause a similar ruckus. Say hello to perfect seasons! Games will no longer be about hope, but about getting an early lead and just rushing half-assed through the rest of it like it's a chore. I mean, if I had the power to rewind a game-winning grandslam in the bottom of the 9th, I'd do it because why would I want to lose if I didn't have to? But I'd also have no sense of accomplishment whatsoever, and would quickly lose interest in the game because lacks the challenge necessary to keep me motivated.

Nicely said.
 

nib95

Banned
evolution said:
I love PGR4, but no. Its 30fps, and the car models are no match for what PD and T10 have achieved. But for a game released years ago it still looks good.

I actually did a like for like comparison of both games London tracks. Not only were the car models much better in GT5P, but the lighting, backgrounds, textures etc were all better too.
 

mujun

Member
Ploid 3.0 said:
Hey I don't care what's in Forza, it's people trying to force rewind into GT that's getting me to comment on it. I don't want it in there, nor the racing line on by default. If I screw up at the end of a long race and end up in 4th place from my 1st place position I'd be stupid not to use the rewind. The game will be easier because of it, I'd rather have to plan better, make the car drive better, and learn a more efficient pit strategy.

I love cheat codes in games like GTA which is why I brought that up. GT never had a cheat code and it was good because it's not the type of game you should use cheats in. You earn everything.

So you don't care what anyone else might want, they should tailor the game to you. Like I said, they should put it in but leave it's inclusion up to each individual user. Exercise your will and don't use it, easy enough.
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
mujun said:
So you don't care what anyone else might want, they should tailor the game to you. Like I said, they should put it in but leave it's inclusion up to each individual user. Exercise your will and don't use it, easy enough.

I think I mentioned before that I don't care about no one but me. I even mentioned I would have loved to see ps3 flop so I could buy up all of the ps3 games for cheap like HD DVD. In the end it's all about you because nothing else should matter. And GT was never casual outside of arcade mode, they did fine without offering options outside of driving assists. It has a big enough market to survive being GT (not changing to GT for Tweens). I'm not saying other games are bad for doing what they do, just that I want GT and not other games. GT is like home for me, I grew up playing it. I'm sure Kaz has big plans to expand to the next step for gt, but it don't seem like adding rewind is something he would do considering the record, you understand? I also want licenses to stay in and people are wanting them out, people that probably don't even play GT.

I was very against cosmetic damage in GT. I just wanted the game out, but I think I read that the damage will have more to it, like you can lose your car for good if you keep banging it up and never repair it (like the dirt accumulation, or bad oil if you keep racing without getting a oil change after a long time). It sounds like something PD would do so at least something came out of the damage stuff if this happens. I'd like to lose my car because I chose to neglect it for whatever reason (example, saving up for another car and think I can push it), it would add extra excitement to the game. Also I feel that I'd become more attached to the cars if it's possible to lose them.
 

Interfectum

Member
ResidentDante said:
And we have a graphics winner:

1484933651_b75f6f546a_o.jpg


No wait.....that's neither GT5 or Forza 3, it's PGR4! :O

Looks better than Forza 3 demo in-game.

Sure it's 30FPS but lighting and modelling are better.
 

Woz

Member
BenjaminBirdie said:
So every other Driving Simulator besides GT is "Fake"? Come on, it's completely subjective.

"Semantically" GT is the only driving simulator on Playstation, so is the real one =P
 

DarkJC

Member
Rewind is fine if the option to enable/disable it is in one of the menus before the race starts. I'd rather not have a button dedicated to it that is always 'on' and waiting to be used.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Insertia said:
I hope rewind in racing doesn't become a trend.

A key component of racing is the tension that you can screw up at any time. You can lead the pack on the final lap, but one fuck up and it's over.

Screwing up on the final lap, rewinding to the point before I took the bad turn, then taking it properly and getting first place doesn't sound like fun. Doesn't sound like racing. It's why I couldn't take GRID seriously.


Be honest - how many of you have screwed up the first corner of a race and pressed START and restarted the race?

Why is rewind any different to that?
 
mrklaw said:
Be honest - how many of you have screwed up the first corner of a race and pressed START and restarted the race?

Why is rewind any different to that?

Only if you use rewind only on the first corner.
 

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
bought a driving force gt wheel today, the guy at gamestop said that these are the last d.f.gt wheels and that new ones willcome out---around chrismas...

you guys know something...?


on topic:

... nah fuck that ...
 
Doc Evils said:
The rewind feature comes from an arcade racer, therefore it is an arcade feature. No sim racer has, or ever will use it.
Which "arcade racer" are you refering to, which this feature is from? The first game I played with this feature was Evolution GT on the PC, and that's not an arcade racer.
 

cakefoo

Member
mrklaw said:
Be honest - how many of you have screwed up the first corner of a race and pressed START and restarted the race?

Why is rewind any different to that?
Restarting takes you to the... start... of a race.

Now you or someone else is supposed to say, "But then shouldn't you have to restart your entire career because you died when you totaled your car?"

No. I have enough patience to restart an entire race (maybe 10-15 minutes of my life), but not enough to restart an entire career (months of hard work). And let's say I came back to that super-realistic sim game after a one-year break: I'd be afraid to start the damn game :lol

And suddenly we have this influx of sim racing fans who only have enough patience to redo the last 5 seconds of driving.

Hey, it's a wonderful feature for practice, but I'm wowed that they thought it was a good idea to let people use it in career mode with no penalty other than having its own leaderboard ranking.
 
cakefoo said:
Restarting takes you to the... start... of a race.

Now you or someone else is supposed to say, "But then shouldn't you have to restart your entire career because you died when you totaled your car?"

No. I have enough patience to restart an entire race (maybe 10-15 minutes of my life), but not enough to restart an entire career (months of hard work). And let's say I came back to that super-realistic sim game after a one-year break: I'd be afraid to start the damn game :lol

And suddenly we have this influx of sim racing fans who only have enough patience to redo the last 5 seconds of driving.

Hey, it's a wonderful feature for practice, but I'm wowed that they thought it was a good idea to let people use it in career mode with no penalty other than having its own leaderboard ranking.

You still have to get the corner right!!

If you have it within your means of skill, you'll get the corner, if you don't, if your car isn't tuned right or just straight up outclassed you will lose the race.

This is honestly wowing me. Rewind is being given the most outrageous feature set of all time the way it's being portrayed here. Allowed in career? Why shouldn't it be? As I said before, it doesn't straighten the road or stop your opponents. I was playing the demo today, in the California, and there's that crazy spot before I think the second turn and it's just jagged enough a spot where if you're going to fast or at a wrong angle, you're going to hit one or all walls before you even hit the turn. I was and I did. So I rewound, like three times, finally having to hardcore break at one point in order to just survive before that turn.

So what did rewind get me? This magical career breaking sorting hat of an invention?

Third place.
 

Keikoku

Banned
Interfectum said:
Looks better than Forza 3 demo in-game.

Sure it's 30FPS but lighting and modelling are better.

Lightning is better. Modelling, far from it. And 30fps changes everything...

Interfectum said:
Old and already been discredited by the experts at Top Gear.

Let's compare a biased comparison with another biased comparison. Oh wait, it's GT5 friendly so it's an "expert" comparison !
 

ShapeGSX

Member
bran said:
- is full manual with cluth faster than automatic transmission in Forza?

Yes. The auto transmission doesn't always choose an optimal gear when coming out of a corner.

- driving a 600hp corvette coming out a corner, are you going to accelerate out faster with traction control on or off?

Off. Traction control and stability is much slower in Forza than modulating the throttle.

If you play the game for a while, this stuff becomes quite obvious.
 
You either use the rewind feature or you don't, end of argument.

It really does sound like a hardcore minority is offended because someone with less ability, can complete the race without penalty. Who cares?
 
Opus Angelorum said:
It really does sound like a hardcore minority is offended because someone with less ability, can complete the race without penalty. Who cares?

And honestly, this isn't even true. There will be penalty for lack of skill. There's no way to avoid it.
 
Opus Angelorum said:
How do you mean? Inherently or by actual design?

It means rewind might save a corner or two or for you but it won't make you a different driver. If you're bad at racing games, Rewind won't make you platinum class.

Trust me on this one.

;D
 

SmokyDave

Member
How on earth are people managing to discuss rewind for pages and pages? Let me have a go....

I think this optional feature is handy for people that are put off by the difficulty of sim racing games. I personally play all assists off, manual and in cockpit view but I think it's cool that someone else can pile on the assists & options and get a completely different experience to me. As long as we're both having fun, the devs have got it right.

I prefer to think of circuits as an entire lap and not just a procession of corners so I wouldn't use rewind. I think perfecting the entire lap is the key to success. Wiping out on one corner and ruining your time (especially if you'd made up time prior to that point) just encourages you to try harder next time around.

Phew, that was actually easier than I expected. I doubt I could be arsed to debate any of these points though, I'm firing up GT:pSP (which I also play all assists off and in cockpit view, it's an awesome little sim!).
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
If you're bad at racing games, Rewind won't make you platinum class.

I agree 100%, it does seem to hit a nerve though that these people can get a away with it. Elitism is something I can't stand, especially in the gaming industry.
 

cakefoo

Member
BenjaminBirdie said:
You still have to get the corner right!!

If you have it within your means of skill, you'll get the corner, if you don't, if your car isn't tuned right or just straight up outclassed you will lose the race.

This is honestly wowing me. Rewind is being given the most outrageous feature set of all time the way it's being portrayed here. Allowed in career? Why shouldn't it be? As I said before, it doesn't straighten the road or stop your opponents. I was playing the demo today, in the California, and there's that crazy spot before I think the second turn and it's just jagged enough a spot where if you're going to fast or at a wrong angle, you're going to hit one or all walls before you even hit the turn. I was and I did. So I rewound, like three times, finally having to hardcore break at one point in order to just survive before that turn.

So what did rewind get me? This magical career breaking sorting hat of an invention?

Third place.
Get this: even experienced drivers make mistakes :O

And they'll make more if they have the security of rewind.
 
If you mess up a corner, T10 will fly to your family home and hold a gun to your mother's head until you press the rewind button, so shut up about how it's 'optional' it's not even a cheat, it's morally reprehensible. Even Wii developers wouldn't sink that low.
 
proposition said:
If you mess up a corner, T10 will fly to your family home and hold a gun to your mother's head until you press the rewind button, so shut up about how it's 'optional' it's not even a cheat, it's morally reprehensible. Even Wii developers wouldn't sink that low.

Joke post?
 
cakefoo said:
Get this: even experienced drivers make mistakes :O

And they'll make more if they have the security of rewind.

?!?

So, this seasoned driver that was destined to win this race with his skill, fucks a turn, hits rewind and wins the race?

Or maybe this seasoned driver, so skilled, so beauteous in his every slight slide of the wheel, so concerned with the pure unfettered thrill of the race, wait, why is he using Rewind anyway?

;D
 

Keikoku

Banned
proposition said:
If you mess up a corner, T10 will fly to your family home and hold a gun to your mother's head until you press the rewind button, so shut up about how it's 'optional' it's not even a cheat, it's morally reprehensible. Even Wii developers wouldn't sink that low.

:lol
 
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