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[sneaky77]

what?

If you have to use rewind to get the time/spot needed to progress or to unlock a car you aren't getting it fairly, you are using an aid basically to help you achieve progression or unlock a car. That's kind of bogus if you ask me.

as opposed to just hit restart? or dropping the AI to easy?

 

[Firewire]

I would argue you just haven't seen a good implementation of online play then. Take, for example, NR03, an 8 year old game, it has a great online implementation. Drivers are ranked according to skill, from 0 to 10, to being the highest. In order to move up in the ranking, one just needs to not only drive good with good times, but also maintain a lower LPI (laps per incident). This encouraged all players to drive well, and with time, you would move up eventually to drivers of your skill. Since causing a wreck could hurt your LPI and therefore your ranking, racers, especially of higher rank, would try to avoid them. Papyrus would set up racing rooms, the qualifier being your ranking (ie must be 4 or above, 6 or above, etc).

This is what saddens me about today's racing sims on consoles, that we still haven't adopted such a system.

I would love this in console sim racing. These setups I assume are used in most PC racing sims?

 

[ShapeGSX]

If you have to use rewind to get the time/spot needed to progress or to unlock a car you aren't getting it fairly, you are using an aid basically to help you achieve progression or unlock a car. That's kind of bogus if you ask me.

Isn't that what B-spec or hiring a driver does? Cheat?

Hell, NFS Shift even lets you buy the cars with real money if you don't have the in game funds to purchase it.

For that matter, you can earn money in Forza to buy any car (they are all unlocked from the start in Forza 3) by painting vehicles, or tuning them, if you want. There is no unlocking.

Why on earth would you care what someone else does to progress in a game?

 

[Yoritomo]

what?

If you have to use rewind to get the time/spot needed to progress or to unlock a car you aren't getting it fairly, you are using an aid basically to help you achieve progression or unlock a car. That's kind of bogus if you ask me.

If you are using standard physics/difficulty level/driving line/ABS/TCS/Stability/Auto to get the time/spot needed to progress or to unlock a car you aren't getting it fairly.

That's kind of bogus if you ask me.

 

[Dezcom]

I would argue you just haven't seen a good implementation of online play then. Take, for example, NR03, an 8 year old game, it has a great online implementation. Drivers are ranked according to skill, from 0 to 10, to being the highest. In order to move up in the ranking, one just needs to not only drive good with good times, but also maintain a lower LPI (laps per incident). This encouraged all players to drive well, and with time, you would move up eventually to drivers of your skill. Since causing a wreck could hurt your LPI and therefore your ranking, racers, especially of higher rank, would try to avoid them. Papyrus would set up racing rooms, the qualifier being your ranking (ie must be 4 or above, 6 or above, etc).

This is what saddens me about today's racing sims on consoles, that we still haven't adopted such a system.

So true, N4/02/03 was the most fun I ever had online. Papy also had absolutely the best netcode ever in racing games. I just wish Papy could make some sort of spinoff of iRacing that didn't require a subscription. :/

 

[Firewire]

as opposed to just hit restart? or dropping the AI to easy?

I've stated already that I'm against restart in career mode. I would love some type of system where races get locked out in a season because of this. I can understand why they allow adjusting difficulty but I don't race that way.

 

[Yoritomo]

I've stated already that I'm against restart in career mode. I would love some type of system where races get locked out in a season because of this. I can understand why they allow adjusting difficulty but I don't race that way.

You're hardcore. You must be really fast.

 

[sneaky77]

I've stated already that I'm against restart in career mode. I would love some type of system where races get locked out in a season because of this. I can understand why they allow adjusting difficulty but I don't race that way.

So then why do you care what people do in their offline career... it makes no sense to be honest.. you are playing the way you want.. other people are playing the way they enjoy it..

 

[Firewire]

If you are using standard physics/difficulty level/driving line/ABS/TCS/Stability/Auto to get the time/spot needed to progress or to unlock a car you aren't getting it fairly.

That's kind of bogus if you ask me.

I agree, and I turn most of these features off when available. But driving pro physics and without aids if for the more skilled wouldn't you say. If these options weren't available, allot of people would give up on these games rather fast I would think.

 

[Yoritomo]

I agree, and I turn most of these features off when available. But driving pro physics and without aids if for the more skilled wouldn't you say. If these options weren't available, allot of people would give up on these games rather fast I would think.

So you're saying that additional optional aids and features that ease the steep learning curve of a sim are a good thing? HOLYYY SHITTTT.

 

[SmokyDave]

So you're saying that additional optional aids and features that ease the steep learning curve of a sim are a good thing? HOLYYY SHITTTT.

:lol :lol TKO.

I can't wait for Kaz to announce GT5's new Rewind feature, it'll be hilarious.

I remember rewind being in Squadra Corse Alfa Romeo on the Xbox 1 so it can't tax resources too much.

 

[Firewire]

You're hardcore. You must be really fast.

meh, I haven't been able to beat my best time in Nurburgring in an M3 in two years. I must have tried 500 times. But I keep trying, I even broke a G25 trying.

Anyways guys I'm out for lunch...latter.

 

[Firewire]

So you're saying that additional optional aids and features that ease the steep learning curve of a sim are a good thing? HOLYYY SHITTTT.

I don't think they are a good thing, I stated that I understood why they where there. I suspect allot of people in this thread wouldn't be able to race for shit without these features, but thats understandable.

 

[KHarvey16]

I don't think they are a good thing, I stated that I understood why they where there. I suspect allot of people in this thread wouldn't be able to race for shit without these features, but thats understandable.

Again I have to thank you. So much less typing for us to do with you around.

 

[evolution]

Why would they need it? You can totally screw up a corner in GT5 and just drive 150mph around the wall instead.

Your post reminded me of interfectum, your just on the other side of the fence.

 

[Firewire]

Again I have to thank you. So much less typing for us to do with you around.

Hey I understand you don't have the patience to practice to get better, you need the quick fix to progress and all that, it ok.

 

[Yoritomo]

Your post reminded me of interfectum, your just on the other side of the fence.

Hopefully it's a Gran Turismo fence so you can just keep going at full speed without breaking stride.

 

[LCfiner]

Have I said how much I love this thread? :lol

 

[dfyb]

the "rewind is optional" argument is a lot like the "GT is bumper cars" argument. these aren't optional, but voluntary. you aren't forced to use rewind or bump into other cars to give you an advantage, but one might be inclined to do so because of the advantage it could give and the fact that the functionality is always there.

 

[Yoritomo]

Hey I understand you don't have the patience to practice to get better, you need the quick fix to progress and all that, it ok.

Careful he might quote Fast and the Furious. Then you'll be in trouble.

 

[Keikoku]

the "rewind is optional" argument is a lot like the "GT is bumper cars" argument. these aren't optional, but voluntary. you aren't forced to use rewind or bump into other cars to give you an advantage, but one might be inclined to do so because of the advantage it could give.

Except than you can disable rewind BEFORE the race. GT5P ridiculously bad physics can't be improved

 

[Yoritomo]

the "rewind is optional" argument is a lot like the "GT is bumper cars" argument. these aren't optional, but voluntary. you aren't forced to use rewind or bump into other cars to give you an advantage, but one might be inclined to do so because of the advantage it could give and the fact that the functionality is always there.

GT5p sort of addressed that with the maddening penalty system.

 

[evolution]

GT5p sort of addressed that with the maddening penalty system.

True, great and frustrating at the same time. Especially in time trial mode.

 

[m0dus]

STILL arguing about Rewind?





Seriously?

 

[Yoritomo]

STILL arguing about Rewind?





Seriously?

It has to be done. I hear we can unlock a custom Forza Warrior livery in F3 if we defend it enough.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

It has to be done. I hear we can unlock a custom Forza Warrior livery in F3 if we defend it enough.

Honestly, my first decal is going to be very simple. Two triangles, one thin rectangle. Very simple.

 

[m0dus]

I should make a 'FORZA WARRIOR IN DEFENSE OF REWINDING' livery. I should also make a 'GT CHAMPION IN DEFENSE OF BOUNCING' one, as well.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I should make a 'FORZA WARRIOR IN DEFENSE OF REWINDING' livery. I should also make a 'GT CHAMPION IN DEFENSE OF BOUNCING' one, as well.

I'm sure you'd do a much better job than I. My only contribution would be "If You Can Read This, You Are Probably Driving Forwards"

 

[XiaNaphryz]

I should make a 'FORZA WARRIOR IN DEFENSE OF REWINDING' livery. I should also make a 'GT CHAMPION IN DEFENSE OF BOUNCING' one, as well.

But whoever would actually win the GT livery likely wouldn't purchase Forza 3 anyway! ;P

 

[dfyb]

Except than you can disable rewind BEFORE the race. GT5P ridiculously bad physics can't be improved

actually, you can't disable rewind (at least in the demo).

and i must be playing a different forza -- some of you act like forza is actually realistic in terms of collisions :lol. both games immediately lose their illusion once you smack something. even on simulation collisions, it's laughable -- you'll hit a wall going 100mph and the game acts like you ran over a curb, scratched all your paint somehow, and messed up your alignment a bit. maybe i don't know the true definition of GT bumper cars, but i was getting away with what i'd surely call 'bumper car racing' in forza just fine.

edit: :lol when you flip your car in forza, you can roll it around with the left analog stick to flip it back over.

 

[Yoritomo]

I have a few decals I'll make to get some forza dough flowing. I have absolutely no skill. I have to have photoshop to make a grid over something I'm making then painstakingly copy the damned thing. I'm going to love the grid lines in F3. m0dus and his ilk astound me with their abilities lol

A fun GT livery would just be to rough up one side of the car, then on the other side have the GT logo with "the real wall riding simulator" underneath.

There's tons of decals to make that people will want. Bullet Holes, Rivets, steel plate sides with rivets. It's gonna be awesome and much easier for no talent guys like myself to make a care they like with other people churning out high quality decals for me to buy.

My online store will be all smileys and logos heh.

 

[Keikoku]

actually, you can't disable rewind (at least in the demo).

and i must be playing a different forza -- some of you act like forza is actually realistic in terms of collisions :lol. both games immediately lose their illusion once you smack something. even on simulation collisions, it's laughable -- you'll hit a wall going 100mph and the game acts like you ran over a curb, scratched all your paint somehow, and messed up your alignment a bit. maybe i don't know the true definition of GT bumper cars, but i was getting away with what i'd surely call 'bumper car racing' in forza just fine.

Even FM2 is more realistic than any GT released in terms of collision. And you'll be able to disable rewind in the full game.

 

[dfyb]

you'll be able to disable rewind in the full game.

has that been confirmed or are you just throwing out assumptions? i searched but found nothing.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

and i must be playing a different forza -- some of you act like forza is actually realistic in terms of collisions :lol. both games immediately lose their illusion once you smack something. even on simulation collisions, it's laughable -- you'll hit a wall going 100mph and the game acts like you ran over a curb, scratched all your paint somehow, and messed up your alignment a bit. maybe i don't know the true definition of GT bumper cars, but i was getting away with what i'd surely call 'bumper car racing' in forza just fine.

How often does this get repeated in the thread? Is it every 700 posts or so now? :lol

Let me guess, you were driving a rear-engine car when you crashed?

 

[shpankey]

I would love this in console sim racing. These setups I assume are used in most PC racing sims?

In some, yes. Though Papyrus was always way ahead of everyone in the sim community. It's 8 years later and still sims today haven't even matched what they put out way back then. I'm starting to wonder if it will ever be done. Fielding a completely full field of real people, online in NASCAR, where inches mean everything on tracks like 'Dega and Daytona, rubbing and swapping paint at near 200mph. The netcode is simply amazing. I can't explain to you just how incredible it is to race with a high level group of 43 players, all playing live going around the track in and out of traffic, 3 wide sometimes. I'm starting to believe they made a pack with the devil or something. Here we are, with a MUCH better internet backbone, with every player playing on high speed connections, and we can't seem to get more than 12 players online and even then, there's issues.

It's why NR03 goes for so much $$ still I suppose. ($80+ dollars currently on eBay).

Which I have a copy of if someone wants. It's a lot of hassle to play it now, not sure where everyone even races. Most people are in leagues on private servers, since there are no official servers anymore. That and it's the base for a few mods, and I think maybe iRacing (?) though I'm not sure.

 

[Yoritomo]

has that been confirmed or are you just throwing out assumptions? i searched but found nothing.

This entire thread is about assumptions and conjecture. :lol

It's a bunch of people who haven't played an actual forza game vs a bunch of people who haven't played GT since GT4.

 

[Keikoku]

has that been confirmed or are you just throwing out assumptions? i searched but found nothing.

It's been confirmed by the 200h+ I have on the GT series and FM2. And honestly, every decent racer in the market has better collisions than the GT series, even the arcade ones (Motorstorm 2, PGR4...)

 

[dfyb]

How often does this get repeated in the thread? Is it every 700 posts or so now? :lol

Let me guess, you were driving a rear-engine car when you crashed?

so i just went and drove the front wheel drive mini into a wall going near 100. i flip it and land back on the wheels because i'm just badass like that, and then i keep driving as if all i did was run over a curb. yeah i'm playing on sim collisions.

if a car makes good collision with something hard -- even if the car's only going like 40 mph -- the car's probably done. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t33OEWzCJik -- forza doesn't even come close to realistic collisions. the physics are just about as awkward/forgiving as GT's -- damage makes it look a bit more believable and you could argue there's a slight improvement, but neither game comes close to realistic collisions. you can play pretty much just as stupidly in forza as you can in GT.

This entire thread is about assumptions and conjecture. :lol

i'd hope it was at least based on facts, like whether or not you can turn off rewind. from the sound of it, Keikoku simply decided it would benefit his argument to make up facts.

It's been confirmed by the 200h+ I have on the GT series and FM2. And honestly, every decent racer in the market has better collisions than the GT series, even the arcade ones (Motorstorm 2, PGR4...)

:lol

 

[KHarvey16]

so i just went and drove the front wheel drive mini into a wall going near 100. i flip it and land back on the wheels because i'm just badass like that, and then i keep driving as if all i did was run over a curb. yeah i'm playing on sim collisions.

Are you in time trial mode?

 

[shpankey]

does anyone remember that old tech demo MSFT showed off a long time ago, with the crash collision? it may have been pre Forza 1. not sure whatever happened to that.

but Forza 2 does have good damage. I just wrecked my in-game speed 3 to a point where is was hobbling around the track at less than half the pace, smoking so bad i almost couldn't see out the rearview mirror. and my 2 crashes weren't even serious bad collisions, just a clip and a sideswipe. so i doubt F3 will be any worse. the point is, the game will punish you enough to make you pay dearly. whether it's dead on balls accurate, crumpled into a tuna can isn't really the point.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

i'd hope it was at least based on facts

You DO know what thread you're in, yes?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I should make a 'FORZA WARRIOR IN DEFENSE OF REWINDING' livery. I should also make a 'GT CHAMPION IN DEFENSE OF BOUNCING' one, as well.

Oh man, Modus, for the rewind one could you...make a livery of an entire car, IN REVERSE? Like the headlights over the taillights, etc?

IT WOULD BE THE ULTIMATE GAG!
:lol

 

[erahk64]

It's been confirmed by the 200h+ I have on the GT series and FM2. And honestly, every decent racer in the market has better collisions than the GT series, even the arcade ones (Motorstorm 2, PGR4...)

I think he was asking if it has been confirmed that it is possible to disable rewind before race in the full game. Do you have a link with this info ?

 

[Ultimo hombre]

STILL arguing about Rewind?





Seriously?

They're just keeping busy until the reviews start coming in.

 

[pr0cs]

does anyone remember that old tech demo MSFT showed off a long time ago, with the crash collision? it may have been pre Forza 1. not sure whatever happened to that.

It was by the guys (and now defunct I believe) who did Full Auto. A totally different game than Forza .
It would be nice if they could have incorporated that sort of collision/damage but something tells me the manufacturers would have kittens if you implemented it in a sim game with their vehicles.

 

[commedieu]

Ok, I dont get how Forza gets away with having obvious... predetermined non-mesh deformation damage as well as *gasp* cars bumping off of eachother(bumper cars) and its some how credited for super real damage & the ability to not bump into eachother without wrecking in a giant fireball. As if its GTR/liveforspeed/Racer.nl/rfactor/GPL... blah

I agree that GT suffers from bumperdom. But Forza 1 & 2 all did and the demo 3 definitely has the same logic of using other cars to turn without fear of having transmission/engine damage.

I mean has anyone seen that IGN crash video/Played F1/F2? Thats the "DAMAGE" that Turn10's been working on to call the best? Call it the best, and I look at it as the best. Don't call me out for pointing out its not the best you know? Because the damage in the series has always been great as a deterrent, but online schmucks will be online schmucks.

I don't race to ram into everything I see. Thats what burnout is for.. truth be told if the only way you gauge a sim is on its collisions, you're doing it wrong.

and as far as rewind... there is definitely a divide of sim racers saying its lame, and arcade drivers who aren't that good at sims saying its wonderful.

Just sayin.

 

[jakonovski]

and as far as rewind... there is definitely a divide of sim racers saying its lame, and arcade drivers who aren't that good at sims saying its wonderful.

Just sayin.

Seeing as how you're such a hotshot sim racer, let's hear some lap times. Without any assists, naturally.

 

[proposition]

You can turn it off.

But some people might have THOUGHT about turning it on - and that's all it takes. GT is an arcade racer.

 

[ElNino]

But Forza 1 & 2 all did and the demo 3 definitely has the same logic of using other cars to turn without fear of having transmission/engine damage.

That's not exactly true. I've had many races in Forza 1, 2 (and even the demo for 3) where I collided with a opponent racer once and after that I had serious engine/transmission damage. The demo isn't quite as punishing it seems as Forza 2 was, but that could very well be just how it is setup for the demo. In Forza 2, you definately could not get away with very much bumper passing.

 

[KHarvey16]

Just to be clear, anyone using the time trial mode to judge damage in FM3 needs to switch to an actual race.