Support NeoGAF

[DopeyFish]

http://previews.teamxbox.com/xbox/910/Forza-Motorsport/p1/

A new car customization preview. Oh and this topic would be worthless without at least a couple new pics!

 

[Gek54]

Too cool. Ok I give up what is the best wheel for xbox.

We don’t consider Forza Motorsport a “killer” of any other game on the market because frankly, there’s nothing quite like it out there or even planned to be out there.

Uh what?

 

[DopeyFish]

Too cool. Ok I give up what is the best wheel for xbox.

Same here, i've been looking into a wheel not sure which one to go for.

 

[mr2mike]

You can't compare GT4 to Forza because they're not in the same segment of the genre...

eh... riiiight.

that kind of prehemptive butt-covering isn't a good thing.. speaks volumes about the confidence in the game. Like that feeling I had in the back of my head ever since it was announced... it might be all fine and dandy, but it's not gona measure up to the giant... they're not aiming high enough.

Ah well, not gonna matter, I've been reduced to single-console gaming, and the one with Forza isn't the one I kept

 

[PG2G]

It's probably not a matter of confidence. More the fact that all of these stupid GT4 vs Forza threads and comparisons get annoying. Fact is, there are things that Forza does that GT4 doesn't, and there are things that GT4 does that Forza doesn't.

 

[Warm Machine]

Does Forza do AA like PGR2?

 

[Gek54]

What’s the difference between the tuner-style and simulation-style racing games of today? Everything really. Tuner-style games try to deliver the most spectacular visual experience possible, focusing on car performance and handling far after the programming of monochromatic paint options, underbody neon choices, and import tuner model facial maps.

Where did they come up with this 'tuner-style' genre??? I can only assume its a rip on NFSU and even that had performance options.

Microsoft’s programmers worked closely with Ferrari and Toyo tire to create on of the most realistic physics engine ever devised for a video game.

More realistic than GT4, F355, GPL and RBR?

Racers will also notice the largish intakes on the aftermarket front bumper, which may have something to do with increased flow to the radiator cooler engine, more consistent HP output lap-to-lap) or cooler brakes down the road.

I dont like their use of 'may'. I want to know for sure what the parts affect.

The addition of a rear wing will help in low speed cornering maneuvers

No, hopefully he meant highspeed cornering.

The massive wings on the back of top-fuel dragsters can create thousands of pounds of downforce, which is necessary to convert 6000 horsepower to forward motion.

Thousands of pounds of downforce? Yeah this guy is just talking out of his ass now.

 

[Blimblim]

Does Forza do AA like PGR2?

Yup, it's part of the reason it's 30 fps.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Where did they come up with this 'tuner-style' genre??? I can only assume its a rip on NFSU and even that had performance options.



More realistic than GT4, F355, GPL and RBR?



I dont like their use of 'may'. I want to know for sure what the parts affect.



No, hopefully he meant highspeed cornering.



Thousands of pounds of downforce? Yeah this guy is just talking out of his ass now.

That whole preview was written by one dumbass fuck, no doubt about it.

 

[erahk64]

Too cool. Ok I give up what is the best wheel for xbox.

There are no force feedback wheels for XBOX but they are trying to get
a top-of-the-line force feedback wheel for Forza according to the interview below.

http://www.xboxaddict.com/interviews/view_interview.php?Interview_ID=48

 

[Gek54]

Great interview. *Crosses fingers for the Forza FF wheel*

 

[DopeyFish]

Uh.

"… that depending on size and angle, the large rear wing on an NHRA Top Fuel dragster develops between 4,000 and 8,000 pounds of downforce? "

Straight from NHRA

Indy cars rear wings hit up to 4,000 pounds of downforce (as noted by NASA)

So who's right?

 

[Gek54]

link?

 

[DopeyFish]

http://www.nhra.com/streetlegal/funfacts.html


http://www.nas.nasa.gov/About/Education/Racecar/statistics.html

 

[Gek54]

Wow...I still cant imagine a H2 sitting on top of a wing.

 

[DopeyFish]

I guess it just doesn't effect the wing that much, because you have offsetting lift as well. If you had straight downforce with no lift then it would get crushed.

 

[Gek54]

There is no lift on the wing. Its pure downforce.

 

[mr2mike]

offsetting lift?

wha?

downforce wings dont make lift. if you have to design your wing to create lift not to be crushed by downforce, then you just make your wing so asit's not making that much downforce.

oh and you know best motoring video? I saw a blooper reel where they were testing a Viper GTS at high speeds and downforce wing collapsed under the strain. :lol:

 

[DopeyFish]

offsetting lift?

wha?

downforce wings dont make lift. if you have to design your wing to create lift not to be crushed by downforce, then you just make your wing so asit's not making that much downforce.

oh and you know best motoring video? I saw a blooper reel where they were testing a Viper GTS at high speeds and downforce wing collapsed under the strain. :lol:

i mean the lift from the entire vehicle, not just on the wing. Both go up against each other and cancel each other out. If you know what i mean.

 

[mr2mike]

lift, generated by the vehicules shape, is minimal at best. consider something like a 350Z that would get lift at top speeds, only needs a teeny tiny pieces of aerodynamis to make a "zero lift" package (Best Motoring Video vol.6).

As for the discussion at had, you can bet that a top fuel's body isn't generating any lift... it's a toothpick with an engine bolted at the back.

a 350Z will generate lift, a new beetle will generate lift, an audi TT will generate lift, a car with an aerofoil shape will generate lift, I'd say the majority if not all the race cars who's bodies are purposely designed for racing (this would exclude any racing series that uses car adapted for racing) are built to be zero lift even without downforce wings.

 

[DopeyFish]

downforce >= weight + pounds of force on lift + force of gravity

If it doesn't then you can have your car fish tail, bounce around, crash or possibly fly.

What I'm saying is that the amount of downforce and the amount of lift cancel each other out therefore having a lot less force applied to the wing.

and if you think a drag racer doesn't create any lift, you're out of your fucking mind. The reason for the huge ass spoiler on the back is so when the car is shifting thousands of horses and the LIFT is picking the car off the ground THEY NEED THE SPOILER TO KEEP ITS ASS ON THE GROUND. Otherwise they wouldn't need it. *sigh*

 

[Gek54]

There is no upward lift applied to the wing. The wing is pure downforce. Many are disigned exactly like an upside down airplane wing. Like so:

Any upward lift the car experiences is applied to the body of the car by either air pushing up or the fact that the car itself acts like a wing by causing air to travle faster over the top than the air underneath. Like so:

Air dams also help prevent the air from traveling underneath.


The 8000lbs of down force they talk about is applied to the wing on the car.

 

[DopeyFish]

There is no upward lift applied to the wing. The wing is pure downforce. Many are disigned exactly like an upside down airplane wing. Like so:

Any upward lift the car experiences is applied to the body of the car by either air pushing up or the fact that the car itself acts like a wing by causing air to travle faster over the top than the air underneath. Like so:

Air dams also help prevent the air from traveling underneath.


The 8000lbs of down force they talk about is applied to the wing on the car.

I'm talking about the body of the car itself. Lift occurs when low pressure wind travelling at higher velocities underneath the vehicle with the combination of high pressure, slower moving wind on the top of the vehicle can cause the vehicle... normally from the rear, to seperate from the road... possibly entirely. This is why the Wing is required (on the rear). Since the lift force is pretty much a result of the high pressure wind on top of the car and the down force of the wing at the rear, it's designed to cancel it out. This is why so many thousands of pounds of downforce can be put on the wing because it's being offset by the lift at the rear. If a car had no lift and had tons of downforce, you can kiss bye-bye to your wing

 

[Gek54]

According to that article there are wings that generate 8000lbs of force to the car meaning that there is 8000lbs of pressure being applied to the entire wing if not more due to drag.

There is some simple ideals of physics that you seem to be missing.

 

[Gek54]

Lift occurs when low pressure wind travelling at higher velocities underneath the vehicle with the combination of high pressure, slower moving wind on the top of the vehicle can cause the vehicle... normally from the rear, to seperate from the road... possibly entirely.

This is totaly wrong. You have the wind speeds and presure's reversed.

 

[mr2mike]

dopey, even if you didn't have your facts backwards on lift, you're still wrong, the lift generated by the body would not 'cancel out' any of the downforce weight on the wing itself, because as the body would be dragged upwards by the low pressure area generated by the curvature of the car's body, the wing itself would still be pushing down.

So the wing's suporting structure would need to sustain the force of it's own wing pushing down, but also the force of the car body wanting to rise from under it.

The reason for the huge ass spoiler on the back is so when the car is shifting thousands of horses and the LIFT is picking the car off the ground THEY NEED THE SPOILER TO KEEP ITS ASS ON THE GROUND. Otherwise they wouldn't need it. *sigh*

No, the reason for the wing is because there isn't a tire on earth that can put down 6000 HP, and nevermind do it with so little weight riding on it to stick it to the ground. and also to keep the car as firmly pressed against the ground as possible, because they weigh so little, accelerate so hard and go so fast that a slight mishap could and does send a car careening out of control into a giant fireball.

The profile of a top fuel car is not that of an aerofoil, it' not even close. The only aerodnamic qualities about them is that theylong stick wich opose little resistance when being thrust through air and thus they creates negligible, at best, lift.

Back in older days of racing, cars had their rear wings fixed to the wheel hubs, awa from the body, to have the downforce sticking the tires down, NOT to keep the body from lifting.

 

[Sjoerd]

Does Forza do AA like PGR2?

AA On the Xbox ruins so many games for me
Gets the framerate down, and looks horrible.

Just look at the team ninja games, never any AA, always 60fps. And they look amazing.

 

[shpankey]

More realistic than GT4, F355, GPL and RBR?

not trying to be anal here, but u guys really need to stop using GPL because the GPL engine was taken and heavily upgraded and made into the Nascar 4 engine by Papyrus, the creators of both simulations. then it was again improved and upgraded and used for Nascar Racing 2002 then believe it or not, the engine was again heavily improved and upgraded for Nascar Racing 2003 Season. this physics engine has been improved quite a bit, according to its developers, over its former self when it was GPL (Grand Prix Legends for those who don't know what were talking about). so when citing an amazing car/tire/racing/driving/crash physics engine, it is only wise to use the vastly superior Nascar Racing 2003 Season sim instead of GPL. also, the game is mod'ed by a few different teams out there into some very, very special racing mods (non Nascar for those who hate Nascar) and should be checked out by all racing sim fans ASAP. no sim out there can touch it yet.

p.s. not to mention the game has an incredible smooth and stable 42 player online mode (yes, u can race with 42 players online and there is no lag, even with 42 cars racing side by side bumper to bumper for miles and miles). just a fucking amazing simulation all around.

Papyrus forever!

now back to your talky talky about Lift and all that

 

[Warm Machine]

AA On the Xbox ruins so many games for me
Gets the framerate down, and looks horrible.

Just look at the team ninja games, never any AA, always 60fps. And they look amazing.

PGR2 looks stellar running in pro-scan on my HDTV. I certainly notice the 30 vs 60 when comparing PGR2 to RSC2.

 

[mr2mike]

I saw 3 Xboxen with 3 PGR2s hooked up to 3 HDTVs at futureshop. even if they were hooked up with component they were still in the default display setting, so I went to the dashboards while no clerks were around and set them to the proper 16:9 prog scan HDTV mode.

I will sware with everything I have that I was severely dissapointed with what I saw. The game looked good on my TV, but even with FSAA, 480p on a fancy new Sony, Hitachi or toshiba HDTV, didn't look nearly as smooth as the naturally blurred image of plain ol' s-video, I'd even qualify the image as jaggy on a HDTV, nevermind that progressive scan now made the framerate even more evident, unlike a normal TV where the game runs interlaced and the phorphor switching rate isn't as high as an HDTV that can refresh the full screen at 60 hz.