Fred Russell (Former Turn 10 Employee) - Turn 10 Studios has shuttered the Forza Motorsport space, remaining staff are to support Forza Horizon
- Thread starter bitbydeath
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splattered
Member
This is all starting to make sense... Xbox gonna make Forza Horizon for Xbox and PS players, Playstation gonna make Gran Turismo for PS and Xbox players. Profit off each other's playerbases without having to make their own arcade/sim titles anymore. Looks like we are staring at fanbase unification right in the damn face, we just can't fully see or grasp it yet.
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simpatico
Member
It took a year+ of patches, and it takes the end user to be willing to dig deep into search engines, but Motorsport is in a place that I'm content with. If you read about the dev cycle it makes sense. Microsoft only letting them use contract labor in a game about autistic levels of passion was always a recipe for disaster. They still somehow got it into decent shape.
I reckon I can sustain my simcade racing itch for years with Motorsport and FM7. With the automotive industry at large looking toward an EV future, maybe future releases don't matter that much. "oooh they added another silent EV" - said no one ever.
I reckon I can sustain my simcade racing itch for years with Motorsport and FM7. With the automotive industry at large looking toward an EV future, maybe future releases don't matter that much. "oooh they added another silent EV" - said no one ever.
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kevboard
Member
you spelled Forza 4 wrong.
5 lacked a lot of content due to the generational shift and the fact it had to be a launch title.
Team Andromeda
Member
So you played a game for over 140 hours thats meant to be the worst in the series and indefensible, ok....Let's say I have some experience with it.
The state it launched in was indefensible. It has been very slowly getting better and the last few updates specifically were a step in the right dirfection at last, but the ship has long sailed for most people and sacking the Studio and future games seems to confirm it.
Skifi28
Member
Worst in the series does not mean unplayable, a good chunk of the hours have been recently after all the improvements. 140 is also not that much, I probably have over 1k hours on most of the previous Forzas.
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Nydius
Member
I don't normally quote myself from other threads but I'm feeling particularly lazy today.
According to the player reviews, Forza Motorsport fell off significantly after the X360.
The best of the post-360 Motorsports didn't reach the same user acclaim as the worst of the X360 ones.
Edit: It also doesn't help when these games continually get delisted after 5-6 years due to automotive licensing crap.
According to the player reviews, Forza Motorsport fell off significantly after the X360.
The best of the post-360 Motorsports didn't reach the same user acclaim as the worst of the X360 ones.
Edit: It also doesn't help when these games continually get delisted after 5-6 years due to automotive licensing crap.
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Sardaukarama
Member
Gutted for them , I love a bit of Forza Motorsport as a starter for my gaming sesh too, I was looking forward to their next release
sncvsrtoip
Member
Newest Forza has rough start but realy decent updates, similar story as with Driveclub tough Turn10 is like og Xbox studio so still surprising
Astray
Member
To me it's all about the next Xbox and how much of a mass-market device it is (my personal prediction is it won't be, and it seems Sony is sensing the same).
The other thing is Helldivers is cheap and most of the active Xbox userbase already has some sort of online subscription happening (be it GP Core or Standard or Ultimate). They're going to make bank on Helldivers 2 at the very least.
"PC" As in Steam? Maybe. Xbox, That's a Pipe Dream.
If you think Gran Turismo is coming to Xbox, you may need to be drug tested! Lol.
blue velvet
Member
I remember the early marketing for the Forza reboot, they spent their time taking shots at GT for not having 3d Trees. Bruh, just make a good game, man. Nobody cares about that petty stuff outside of small fanboys on the internet. Their game probably sold worse in the series, while GT7 sold 15 million copies at this point.
Unknown?
Member
It was only so big in the first place because it is on a subscription service. Horizon didn't sell well before gamepass.
RetroGamingUK
Member
Crazy, one of the best arcade racers of the past decade
Really hope Tokyo Xtreme can help turn things around
Astray
Member
I think it's telling that Sony didn't make any kind of chest-thumping statements about Xbox games coming to PS, this is the company that never ever turned down an opportunity to merk their rivals, so them working it like this is a clear hint that a larger deal was worked out behind the scenes.
I would not be shocked if even the price increase on Xbox consoles was already communicated to Sony in some way to reassure them.
SoloCamo
Member
4 was absolutely the pinnacle of the series. I started with PGR1 on OG Xbox and PGR2 is my favorite arcade racer of all time but when the first FM came it out it was mind blowing. Horizon combined the arcade fun of PGR with the modding and slightly more serious gameplay from FM.
Horizon's a good middle ground and a successor to PGR but open world. I don't know how they could screw up FM so bad but they did... they literally would have been better off just remaking 4 with updated graphics and physics.
March Climber
Member
And while GT vs FM fans were going back and forth, everyone else knew which series was the true king of the 360 generation:
You should have just summed up your post with a gif:
Rien
Jelly Belly
You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs
Sooner
Member
Please explain how them killing off their "AAAA" studio after 7 years and 0 games, abandoning one of the Xbox big 3 in mainline Forza, and relegating Rare to exclusively Sea of Thieves maintenance is going to result in an omelet.
TheMan
Member
Forza Motorsport's future doesn't look good following the grim week at Xbox — Turn 10 layoffs reportedly had a massive impact on any future for the franchise
Turn 10, the makers of Forza Motorsport, will be shifting to a support role for the Horizon series, which remains on track.
www.windowscentral.com
A glimmer of hope? Sounds like FM may not be definitively cancelled but certainly on the back burner while the remaining devs focus on horizon
TBiddy
Member
The methodologies surrounding contractors at turn 10 has long been public knowledge now.
Forza Motorsport Developer Shares 'Exhausting' Experience Making the Game
Microsoft's long-reported insistence on contract hires took its toll on the rebooted racing sim's development, according to one artist.www.thedrive.com
It's two different things though.
"You pay for cheap labor and it ends up screwing the veterans at tha studio because you gotta teach said labor on what to do, what you want done etc etc which takes resources away from developing the game and improving it."
Is not the same as replacing senior devs with "green devs".
We both know that. Good try though.
hououinkyouma00
Member
Windows Central is probably the website I trust the least but I hope it's true. The series may be nearly 15 years in decline but I don't think it should go away.Forza Motorsport's future doesn't look good following the grim week at Xbox — Turn 10 layoffs reportedly had a massive impact on any future for the franchise
Turn 10, the makers of Forza Motorsport, will be shifting to a support role for the Horizon series, which remains on track.
A glimmer of hope? Sounds like FM may not be definitively cancelled but certainly on the back burner while the remaining devs focus on horizon
Nydius
Member
The question is: Where does Motorsport fit in Microsoft's current strategy?
Microsoft founded Turn 10 Studios in 2001 specifically to make a Gran Turismo competitor. If they're moving to a (mostly) multiplatform future, there's no need for a platform exclusive competitor to Gran Turismo anymore. They'll never be able to take down Gran Turismo on GT's home "turf". PC has an obscene amount of racing sims, everything from sim-cade style (like Forza) to the extremely detailed full blown simulators that people race competitively IRL. The full iterations of Forza Motorsport 7 and 8 have been on PC since their respective launches and failed to make a splash.
Horizon, on the other hand, has established itself as the preeminient arcade racing game that no one's been able to touch. Sony has no answer for it since they canned Driveclub, and it blows away most PC arcade racers in terms of quality and content. Motorsport on Steam peaked at 4.7k all time CCU and 1.3k CCU peak daily while Horizon 5, an older game, has a daily CCU 18 times higher (23k), and an all time CCU 17 times higher (81k).
I can't see a realistic future for Motorsport. Between overall development costs and licensing costs, it's too expensive for too little return.
Mattyp
Not the YouTuber
They still have over 40 games in development, you have one game with nothing to show after 7 years, then you have another with 10 year development and nothing to show. I don't know what Microsoft's meant to do at that point but cancel those titles, I wouldn't expect anything less from Sony either. 17 years of combined dev time for 2 games yes they deserve to be cancelled.
I don't think they need two studios for Motorsport and Horizon either. Horizon is an absolute beast, if they want to revisit Motorsport let the studios combine after a Horizon drop and offer something fresh hopefully it's needed help for years.
GHG
Member
It's admirable that you still manage to maintain this degree of denial.
splattered
Member
Never say never
Especially if they load the next iteration up with monetization and want to make as much money as possible. Helldivers will be a good game to test this out with.
Insane Metal
Member
Dude, just WHAT THE FUCK is going on at Microsoft?
This is seriously sad, man. FM has been great for more than a decade. FFS.
This is seriously sad, man. FM has been great for more than a decade. FFS.
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hollams
Gold Member
It was a console game all the way and when it came to the PC it was no where close to other PC racing sims in terms of FFB. Playing with a wheel took a lot of tweaking just to feel decent but it never felt great. I imagine they spent most of the time working on the controller which is a shame.
No, Helldivers is a Live Service Game. Sony has been upfront that their GAAS games will be multiplatform the whole time. Bungie's Marathon game will be multiplatform also.Never say never
Especially if they load the next iteration up with monetization and want to make as much money as possible. Helldivers will be a good game to test this out with.
Not their core franchises (mostly singleplayer).
Now will it eventually come to PC via Steam? Possible.
Gran Turismo on Xbox? Not a chance in hell. Especially considering Xbox players are moving over to Playstation anyways.
Edit: Also thanks to Gampass, Xbox players have been trained to not buy games.
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skneogaf
Member
Playground games should be tasked with making forza motorsport, turn 10 mainly concentrated on the technical side of the game engine anyway so surely turn 10 could still do that with who they have left and the guys at playground can give us what we want in a motorsport game.
The amount of game that is in horizon compared to motorsport is nuts so surely playground games could whip up a motorsport 4 quality game in whatever the next version of the motorsport game will come out in a quarter of the time.
The amount of game that is in horizon compared to motorsport is nuts so surely playground games could whip up a motorsport 4 quality game in whatever the next version of the motorsport game will come out in a quarter of the time.
Killer8
Member
Not surprising. Game was announced in 2020 and took an age to come out. By the time it did, the initially impressive trailers were downgraded to the point that not even the "on-track ray-tracing" box ticking was enough to save the visuals. I remember the gaslighting at the time from certain posters trying to convince people it was better looking than the rasterized GT7 and it seems gamers didn't fall for it. In terms of the game itself, FM2023 is one of the most sterile racing titles I have ever played. Zero character on display, in its career, its UI or its music choices, and it's little wonder that the excitement of the festival-orientated Horizon stole all of the players.
Rivdoric
Member
I play a lot of racing games and absolutely NONE of them outclass Forza Motorsport when it comes to "controller circuit simcade game". Absolutely none.
Some of you saying there are "tons of simcade games that compete with Motorsport on PC" is completely false.
Assetto Corsa (Competizione, Evo), Automobilista, Project Cars 2, Le Mans Ultimate, iRacing etc... are all great with a wheel but absolutely suck, really SUCK with controllers. It just feels bland & unpolished compared to FM. FM has impulse triggers etc... that are extremely satisfying features.
I can't name a single game that combines strong controller support with circuits & simcade handling. All others "controller emphasis" games are open world arcade that are more of a competitor to Horizon, not Motorsport.
I'm really saddened by the Motorsport fate. Why did they release the game in such a poor state is beyond me. Lots of X360 era reused assets. No real enhancements compared to older iterations etc.... Still, I bought the game very recently following the Fujimi Kaido update and i'm having a very good time with it.
But i can understand why they crashed in the end. They've been sleeping on their former glory for years.
Some of you saying there are "tons of simcade games that compete with Motorsport on PC" is completely false.
Assetto Corsa (Competizione, Evo), Automobilista, Project Cars 2, Le Mans Ultimate, iRacing etc... are all great with a wheel but absolutely suck, really SUCK with controllers. It just feels bland & unpolished compared to FM. FM has impulse triggers etc... that are extremely satisfying features.
I can't name a single game that combines strong controller support with circuits & simcade handling. All others "controller emphasis" games are open world arcade that are more of a competitor to Horizon, not Motorsport.
I'm really saddened by the Motorsport fate. Why did they release the game in such a poor state is beyond me. Lots of X360 era reused assets. No real enhancements compared to older iterations etc.... Still, I bought the game very recently following the Fujimi Kaido update and i'm having a very good time with it.
But i can understand why they crashed in the end. They've been sleeping on their former glory for years.
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PlayStaytion
Member
From a PC gamer's perspective like me as well as Phil Spencer, I kinda see and understand what MS is doing from a PC gamer's perspective and where their priorities are shifting towards. Not a surprise, at least it's their safest choice at the moment.
Nydius
Member
Your entire argument is "but muh controller!". I posted numbers above. Forza Motorsport on PC has been an absolute flop and the vast majority don't seem to care about Motorsport as a "controller circuit simcade game".
Rivdoric
Member
Your whole sentence is a sophism and you don't even give any argument as well except "but muh number of sales ppl don't care muh" when i simply explained one reason i find Motorsport unique as a casual simcade game.
Not worth my time.
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SoloCamo
Member
Going to have to agree here. I play on PC as well and when the FM series was announced as coming to PC I was beyond ecstatic. The latest title being launched in such a way was more detrimental to the sales than just waiting a bit for them to polish it... I have Gamepass and I'm glad I used it for FM because I'd have regretted paying full price.... and just now I purchased the premium edition today because the games in a good place and fun.
To me, it's a perfect blend of simcade as I'm not going to sit here with a wheel and pretend I'm behind a car unless I do it right and that is NOT cheap so I find the controller perfect, just like I've been using since the first FM came out on OG Xbox.
I've also got a 330hp RWD Sedan as my daily that itches my go fast needs behind a wheel too so that probably plays a role.
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kevboard
Member
while that's true, it doesn't change that as a product, the latest Forza was a joke.
and the series as a whole went downhill for a while.
they refused to fix car models that had issues since the Xbox 360 days, leaned more and more on selling car packs instead of adding a good campaign mode, and with the latest installment all of this was then combined with a completely unfinished and unpolished launch.
and then there's the false claims of being "built from the ground up", when the same fucking car models with the same wrong proportions are still there.
Forza feels amazing on a controller, the impulse trigger implementation is second to none, steering feels just right... all that can be true, while the game as a whole is still a piece of shit.
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skyfinch
Member
As barebones and disappointing as FM2023 is, I've more hours into it than any other FM game. More than even FM4. The cars and physics are definitely improved over the past games. And with all the updates, I think the game is respectable but a little to late.
I wished they treated all tracks with the level of detail and care as Fujimi Kiado.
Anyway, sucks if this is their final game, especially when they celebrated 20 years just last month. Back in the Xbox 360 days, I would never believe you if you told me Turn 10 would become a supporting team to their very own spin off series. But hey, congrats to Playground Games. They were given an opportunity and exceeded expectations.
I wished they treated all tracks with the level of detail and care as Fujimi Kiado.
Anyway, sucks if this is their final game, especially when they celebrated 20 years just last month. Back in the Xbox 360 days, I would never believe you if you told me Turn 10 would become a supporting team to their very own spin off series. But hey, congrats to Playground Games. They were given an opportunity and exceeded expectations.
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Insanemaelstrom
Member
You should try out gt7. It's absolutely wonderful on controller especially due to the haptic feedback and adaptive triggers. The game is genuinely able to effectively communicate the feeling of tire grip, road surface and even wheels locking up.
It has the best controller support in a racing game, imo and the closest game to replicate the amount of info you get through a wheel, on a controller
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Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
You are still buthurt over that i see. I still stand by what i said. Unlike you fanboy clowns i enjoy all those games. Many people have lost there job and you are still cheering that GT vs Forza bullshit.Turk1993 sure is quiet. Dude was all over on how much better FM8 was compared to GT7.
I didn't post too much lately on this site because im working in my new house thats almost finished. But your stupid comment made me reply to it.
btw this is what i said for people wondering
Just read the last sentence in the last quote
Thebonehead
Gold Member
Really bizarre.
Imagine if you will, a middle aged man whose whole raison d'être is just to troll and spam laughing emojis.
Classic narcissistic personality disorder. I should feel sorry, but what a melt
Shows a really weak minded person
Have to agree on this. I will not say it is the better game, but as simcade on PC it is a great game to play with a controller. PC is ok but PC2 i just can't keep the car on the road.
With the wheel, there are way better options on pc of course.