Fred Russell (Former Turn 10 Employee) - Turn 10 Studios has shuttered the Forza Motorsport space, remaining staff are to support Forza Horizon

That's just really sad….FM was an absolute titan of the genre and it's just gone with a fucking thanos snap. All so Nutella and the shareholders can get slightly richer.
 
This is all starting to make sense... Xbox gonna make Forza Horizon for Xbox and PS players, Playstation gonna make Gran Turismo for PS and Xbox players. Profit off each other's playerbases without having to make their own arcade/sim titles anymore. Looks like we are staring at fanbase unification right in the damn face, we just can't fully see or grasp it yet.
 
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It took a year+ of patches, and it takes the end user to be willing to dig deep into search engines, but Motorsport is in a place that I'm content with. If you read about the dev cycle it makes sense. Microsoft only letting them use contract labor in a game about autistic levels of passion was always a recipe for disaster. They still somehow got it into decent shape.

I reckon I can sustain my simcade racing itch for years with Motorsport and FM7. With the automotive industry at large looking toward an EV future, maybe future releases don't matter that much. "oooh they added another silent EV" - said no one ever.
 
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Let's say I have some experience with it.

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The state it launched in was indefensible. It has been very slowly getting better and the last few updates specifically were a step in the right dirfection at last, but the ship has long sailed for most people and sacking the Studio and future games seems to confirm it.
So you played a game for over 140 hours thats meant to be the worst in the series and indefensible, ok....
 
So you played a game for over 140 hours thats meant to be the worst in the series and indefensible, ok....
Worst in the series does not mean unplayable, a good chunk of the hours have been recently after all the improvements. 140 is also not that much, I probably have over 1k hours on most of the previous Forzas.
 
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I don't normally quote myself from other threads but I'm feeling particularly lazy today.

Doesn't surprise me about Turn 10. The last few mainline Forza Motorsport games weren't well received by players and in a multiplatform future Forza Motorsport has no place. They'll never dethrone Gran Turismo on PlayStation and PC has a ridiculous amount of racing sims.

Might as well roll the rest of the studio into Playground Games so Forza Horizon can continue to be their marquee arcade racing game.

According to the player reviews, Forza Motorsport fell off significantly after the X360.
The best of the post-360 Motorsports didn't reach the same user acclaim as the worst of the X360 ones.

FM1: 8.3, FM2: 7.9, FM3: 8.2, FM4: 8.4
FM5: 6.1, FM6: 7.8, FM7: 6.6, FM8: 6.9

Edit: It also doesn't help when these games continually get delisted after 5-6 years due to automotive licensing crap.
 
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Gutted for them , I love a bit of Forza Motorsport as a starter for my gaming sesh too, I was looking forward to their next release:messenger_neutral:
 
Newest Forza has rough start but realy decent updates, similar story as with Driveclub tough Turn10 is like og Xbox studio so still surprising
 
With Xbox leaving the console biz, each game Sony deploys over to Xbox is effectively a carrot to try bring them over.

I expect more games to follow, they're fishing.
To me it's all about the next Xbox and how much of a mass-market device it is (my personal prediction is it won't be, and it seems Sony is sensing the same).

The other thing is Helldivers is cheap and most of the active Xbox userbase already has some sort of online subscription happening (be it GP Core or Standard or Ultimate). They're going to make bank on Helldivers 2 at the very least.
 
Forza Motorsport was a joke of a release. All that talk of next gen physics etc and they launched a turd.

I loved old Forza Motorsport titles but this was a joke. Hopefully Sony brings Gran Turismo to PC and Xbox soon.
"PC" As in Steam? Maybe. Xbox, That's a Pipe Dream.
 
This is all starting to make sense... Xbox gonna make Forza Horizon for Xbox and PS players, Playstation gonna make Gran Turismo for PS and Xbox players. Profit off each other's playerbases without having to make their own arcade/sim titles anymore. Looks like we are staring at fanbase unification right in the damn face, we just can't fully see or grasp it yet.
If you think Gran Turismo is coming to Xbox, you may need to be drug tested! Lol.
 
I remember the early marketing for the Forza reboot, they spent their time taking shots at GT for not having 3d Trees. Bruh, just make a good game, man. Nobody cares about that petty stuff outside of small fanboys on the internet. Their game probably sold worse in the series, while GT7 sold 15 million copies at this point.
 
They screwed the forza motorsport series and handicapped it by introducing the forza horizon series honestly. You completely undercut your own marquee franchise by making a spin off of it. I feel like even if forza motorsport came out absolutely incredible, then it still would've been screwed because of how big forza horizon is and how it took alot of the audience of motorsport. But then you wanna turn around and blame turn 10 who's been a legacy studio for you? Gimme a break.
It was only so big in the first place because it is on a subscription service. Horizon didn't sell well before gamepass.
 
Just one more reason not to get emotionally invested in this hobby. These corporations obviously want you to, but don't fall for it.
 
This is all starting to make sense... Xbox gonna make Forza Horizon for Xbox and PS players, Playstation gonna make Gran Turismo for PS and Xbox players. Profit off each other's playerbases without having to make their own arcade/sim titles anymore. Looks like we are staring at fanbase unification right in the damn face, we just can't fully see or grasp it yet.
I think it's telling that Sony didn't make any kind of chest-thumping statements about Xbox games coming to PS, this is the company that never ever turned down an opportunity to merk their rivals, so them working it like this is a clear hint that a larger deal was worked out behind the scenes.

I would not be shocked if even the price increase on Xbox consoles was already communicated to Sony in some way to reassure them.
 
I think 4 was the fan favourite game. It has been downhill since then.

4 was absolutely the pinnacle of the series. I started with PGR1 on OG Xbox and PGR2 is my favorite arcade racer of all time but when the first FM came it out it was mind blowing. Horizon combined the arcade fun of PGR with the modding and slightly more serious gameplay from FM.

Horizon's a good middle ground and a successor to PGR but open world. I don't know how they could screw up FM so bad but they did... they literally would have been better off just remaking 4 with updated graphics and physics.
 
You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs
Please explain how them killing off their "AAAA" studio after 7 years and 0 games, abandoning one of the Xbox big 3 in mainline Forza, and relegating Rare to exclusively Sea of Thieves maintenance is going to result in an omelet.
 
The methodologies surrounding contractors at turn 10 has long been public knowledge now.




It's two different things though.

"You pay for cheap labor and it ends up screwing the veterans at tha studio because you gotta teach said labor on what to do, what you want done etc etc which takes resources away from developing the game and improving it."

Is not the same as replacing senior devs with "green devs".

We both know that. Good try though.
 

A glimmer of hope? Sounds like FM may not be definitively cancelled but certainly on the back burner while the remaining devs focus on horizon
Windows Central is probably the website I trust the least but I hope it's true. The series may be nearly 15 years in decline but I don't think it should go away.
 
The series may be nearly 15 years in decline but I don't think it should go away.

The question is: Where does Motorsport fit in Microsoft's current strategy?

Microsoft founded Turn 10 Studios in 2001 specifically to make a Gran Turismo competitor. If they're moving to a (mostly) multiplatform future, there's no need for a platform exclusive competitor to Gran Turismo anymore. They'll never be able to take down Gran Turismo on GT's home "turf". PC has an obscene amount of racing sims, everything from sim-cade style (like Forza) to the extremely detailed full blown simulators that people race competitively IRL. The full iterations of Forza Motorsport 7 and 8 have been on PC since their respective launches and failed to make a splash.

Horizon, on the other hand, has established itself as the preeminient arcade racing game that no one's been able to touch. Sony has no answer for it since they canned Driveclub, and it blows away most PC arcade racers in terms of quality and content. Motorsport on Steam peaked at 4.7k all time CCU and 1.3k CCU peak daily while Horizon 5, an older game, has a daily CCU 18 times higher (23k), and an all time CCU 17 times higher (81k).

I can't see a realistic future for Motorsport. Between overall development costs and licensing costs, it's too expensive for too little return.
 
Please explain how them killing off their "AAAA" studio after 7 years and 0 games, abandoning one of the Xbox big 3 in mainline Forza, and relegating Rare to exclusively Sea of Thieves maintenance is going to result in an omelet.

They still have over 40 games in development, you have one game with nothing to show after 7 years, then you have another with 10 year development and nothing to show. I don't know what Microsoft's meant to do at that point but cancel those titles, I wouldn't expect anything less from Sony either. 17 years of combined dev time for 2 games yes they deserve to be cancelled.

I don't think they need two studios for Motorsport and Horizon either. Horizon is an absolute beast, if they want to revisit Motorsport let the studios combine after a Horizon drop and offer something fresh hopefully it's needed help for years.
 
It's two different things though.

"You pay for cheap labor and it ends up screwing the veterans at tha studio because you gotta teach said labor on what to do, what you want done etc etc which takes resources away from developing the game and improving it."

Is not the same as replacing senior devs with "green devs".

We both know that. Good try though.

It's admirable that you still manage to maintain this degree of denial.
 
If you think Gran Turismo is coming to Xbox, you may need to be drug tested! Lol.

Never say never :)

Especially if they load the next iteration up with monetization and want to make as much money as possible. Helldivers will be a good game to test this out with.
 
Dude, just WHAT THE FUCK is going on at Microsoft?

This is seriously sad, man. FM has been great for more than a decade. FFS.
 
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I never played a Forza Motorsport game, only the other Forza game (I hate the dudebro aspect of them btw). I've always been a GT-fanboy since GT1 released.. But I am a bit saddened by this.

Competition is good.

RIP
 
It was a console game all the way and when it came to the PC it was no where close to other PC racing sims in terms of FFB. Playing with a wheel took a lot of tweaking just to feel decent but it never felt great. I imagine they spent most of the time working on the controller which is a shame.
 
Never say never :)

Especially if they load the next iteration up with monetization and want to make as much money as possible. Helldivers will be a good game to test this out with.
No, Helldivers is a Live Service Game. Sony has been upfront that their GAAS games will be multiplatform the whole time. Bungie's Marathon game will be multiplatform also.
Not their core franchises (mostly singleplayer).
Now will it eventually come to PC via Steam? Possible.

Gran Turismo on Xbox? Not a chance in hell. Especially considering Xbox players are moving over to Playstation anyways.

Edit: Also thanks to Gampass, Xbox players have been trained to not buy games.
 
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Playground games should be tasked with making forza motorsport, turn 10 mainly concentrated on the technical side of the game engine anyway so surely turn 10 could still do that with who they have left and the guys at playground can give us what we want in a motorsport game.

The amount of game that is in horizon compared to motorsport is nuts so surely playground games could whip up a motorsport 4 quality game in whatever the next version of the motorsport game will come out in a quarter of the time.
 
Not surprising. Game was announced in 2020 and took an age to come out. By the time it did, the initially impressive trailers were downgraded to the point that not even the "on-track ray-tracing" box ticking was enough to save the visuals. I remember the gaslighting at the time from certain posters trying to convince people it was better looking than the rasterized GT7 and it seems gamers didn't fall for it. In terms of the game itself, FM2023 is one of the most sterile racing titles I have ever played. Zero character on display, in its career, its UI or its music choices, and it's little wonder that the excitement of the festival-orientated Horizon stole all of the players.
 
I remember playing FM4 on my Xbox 360 back in time.

Damn... what a shit end. They really fuck up their previous Forza and killed the franchise.

Who would believe their greed for more money would make less money?
 
I play a lot of racing games and absolutely NONE of them outclass Forza Motorsport when it comes to "controller circuit simcade game". Absolutely none.
Some of you saying there are "tons of simcade games that compete with Motorsport on PC" is completely false.

Assetto Corsa (Competizione, Evo), Automobilista, Project Cars 2, Le Mans Ultimate, iRacing etc... are all great with a wheel but absolutely suck, really SUCK with controllers. It just feels bland & unpolished compared to FM. FM has impulse triggers etc... that are extremely satisfying features.
I can't name a single game that combines strong controller support with circuits & simcade handling. All others "controller emphasis" games are open world arcade that are more of a competitor to Horizon, not Motorsport.

I'm really saddened by the Motorsport fate. Why did they release the game in such a poor state is beyond me. Lots of X360 era reused assets. No real enhancements compared to older iterations etc.... Still, I bought the game very recently following the Fujimi Kaido update and i'm having a very good time with it.
But i can understand why they crashed in the end. They've been sleeping on their former glory for years.
 
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From a PC gamer's perspective like me as well as Phil Spencer, I kinda see and understand what MS is doing from a PC gamer's perspective and where their priorities are shifting towards. Not a surprise, at least it's their safest choice at the moment.
 
Some of you saying there are "tons of simcade games that compete with Motorsport on PC" is completely false.

[Proceeds to list games that compete with Motorsport on PC, most of which have had higher or more consistent player counts than FM7 or FM8.]

Your entire argument is "but muh controller!". I posted numbers above. Forza Motorsport on PC has been an absolute flop and the vast majority don't seem to care about Motorsport as a "controller circuit simcade game".
 
Your entire argument is "but muh controller!". I posted numbers above. Forza Motorsport on PC has been an absolute flop and the vast majority don't seem to care about Motorsport as a "controller circuit simcade game".

Your whole sentence is a sophism and you don't even give any argument as well except "but muh number of sales ppl don't care muh" when i simply explained one reason i find Motorsport unique as a casual simcade game.
Not worth my time.
 
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I play a lot of racing games and absolutely NONE of them outclass Forza Motorsport when it comes to "controller circuit simcade game". Absolutely none.
Some of you saying there are "tons of simcade games that compete with Motorsport on PC" is completely false.

Assetto Corsa (Competizione, Evo), Automobilista, Project Cars 2, Le Mans Ultimate, iRacing etc... are all great with a wheel but absolutely suck, really SUCK with controllers. It just feels bland & unpolished compared to FM. FM has impulse triggers etc... that are extremely satisfying features.
I can't name a single game that combines strong controller support with circuits & simcade handling. All others "controller emphasis" games are open world arcade that are more of a competitor to Horizon, not Motorsport.

I'm really saddened by the Motorsport fate. Why did they release the game in such a poor state is beyond me. Lots of X360 era reused assets. No real enhancements compared to older iterations etc.... Still, I bought the game very recently following the Fujimi Kaido update and i'm having a very good time with it.
But i can understand why they crashed in the end. They've been sleeping on their former glory for years.

Going to have to agree here. I play on PC as well and when the FM series was announced as coming to PC I was beyond ecstatic. The latest title being launched in such a way was more detrimental to the sales than just waiting a bit for them to polish it... I have Gamepass and I'm glad I used it for FM because I'd have regretted paying full price.... and just now I purchased the premium edition today because the games in a good place and fun.

To me, it's a perfect blend of simcade as I'm not going to sit here with a wheel and pretend I'm behind a car unless I do it right and that is NOT cheap so I find the controller perfect, just like I've been using since the first FM came out on OG Xbox.

I've also got a 330hp RWD Sedan as my daily that itches my go fast needs behind a wheel too so that probably plays a role.
 
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I play a lot of racing games and absolutely NONE of them outclass Forza Motorsport when it comes to "controller circuit simcade game". Absolutely none.
Some of you saying there are "tons of simcade games that compete with Motorsport on PC" is completely false.

while that's true, it doesn't change that as a product, the latest Forza was a joke.
and the series as a whole went downhill for a while.

they refused to fix car models that had issues since the Xbox 360 days, leaned more and more on selling car packs instead of adding a good campaign mode, and with the latest installment all of this was then combined with a completely unfinished and unpolished launch.

and then there's the false claims of being "built from the ground up", when the same fucking car models with the same wrong proportions are still there.


Forza feels amazing on a controller, the impulse trigger implementation is second to none, steering feels just right... all that can be true, while the game as a whole is still a piece of shit.
 
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As barebones and disappointing as FM2023 is, I've more hours into it than any other FM game. More than even FM4. The cars and physics are definitely improved over the past games. And with all the updates, I think the game is respectable but a little to late.
I wished they treated all tracks with the level of detail and care as Fujimi Kiado.

Anyway, sucks if this is their final game, especially when they celebrated 20 years just last month. Back in the Xbox 360 days, I would never believe you if you told me Turn 10 would become a supporting team to their very own spin off series. But hey, congrats to Playground Games. They were given an opportunity and exceeded expectations.
 
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I play a lot of racing games and absolutely NONE of them outclass Forza Motorsport when it comes to "controller circuit simcade game". Absolutely none.
Some of you saying there are "tons of simcade games that compete with Motorsport on PC" is completely false.

Assetto Corsa (Competizione, Evo), Automobilista, Project Cars 2, Le Mans Ultimate, iRacing etc... are all great with a wheel but absolutely suck, really SUCK with controllers. It just feels bland & unpolished compared to FM. FM has impulse triggers etc... that are extremely satisfying features.
I can't name a single game that combines strong controller support with circuits & simcade handling. All others "controller emphasis" games are open world arcade that are more of a competitor to Horizon, not Motorsport.

I'm really saddened by the Motorsport fate. Why did they release the game in such a poor state is beyond me. Lots of X360 era reused assets. No real enhancements compared to older iterations etc.... Still, I bought the game very recently following the Fujimi Kaido update and i'm having a very good time with it.
But i can understand why they crashed in the end. They've been sleeping on their former glory for years.
You should try out gt7. It's absolutely wonderful on controller especially due to the haptic feedback and adaptive triggers. The game is genuinely able to effectively communicate the feeling of tire grip, road surface and even wheels locking up.

It has the best controller support in a racing game, imo and the closest game to replicate the amount of info you get through a wheel, on a controller
 
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Turk1993 Turk1993 sure is quiet. Dude was all over on how much better FM8 was compared to GT7.
You are still buthurt over that i see. I still stand by what i said. Unlike you fanboy clowns i enjoy all those games. Many people have lost there job and you are still cheering that GT vs Forza bullshit.

I didn't post too much lately on this site because im working in my new house thats almost finished. But your stupid comment made me reply to it.

btw this is what i said for people wondering
This is soo wrong, as someone who plays both i can say that Forza does alot of thing better than GT like
- better car list
- better FFB (on my G Pro with TF)
- better physics ( rain exlcuded obv., its even worse than FM7)
- dynamic tod and weather on all tracks
- better sandbox like freeplay
- better graphics on pc
- bigger grid
- better camera views and more customization

Its not perfect obv. and there are also lots of thing that GT does better. But to say that its a poor mans GT and worse in every aspect is just wrong.

I already named a few for FM, let me give you the things that GT7 does better

- rain simulation is far more advanced and has alot more effect on the physics
- it has better ai, they race alot cleaner and are more competitive
- the interior view is more detailed most of the time
- the driver animations are superior
- the replays are far superior
- it has better photomode
- it has some really good single player races in the mission section
- the pit is better
- the online community is bigger
- VR VR VR!

Also if i say that one thing is better in one game compared to other game doesn't mean its bad in that one game. Its just that the other one is a better. They are both good games with both offering alot of different things to enjoy. There are alot of different tracks in both games to enjoy.

Just read the last sentence in the last quote
 
You are still buthurt over that i see. I still stand by what i said. Unlike you fanboy clowns i enjoy all those games. Many people have lost there job and you are still cheering that GT vs Forza bullshit.

I didn't post too much lately on this site because im working in my new house thats almost finished. But your stupid comment made me reply to it.

btw this is what i said for people wondering




Just read the last sentence in the last quote
Really bizarre.

Imagine if you will, a middle aged man whose whole raison d'être is just to troll and spam laughing emojis.

Classic narcissistic personality disorder. I should feel sorry, but what a melt

Shows a really weak minded person
 
Going to have to agree here. I play on PC as well and when the FM series was announced as coming to PC I was beyond ecstatic. The latest title being launched in such a way was more detrimental to the sales than just waiting a bit for them to polish it... I have Gamepass and I'm glad I used it for FM because I'd have regretted paying full price.... and just now I purchased the premium edition today because the games in a good place and fun.

To me, it's a perfect blend of simcade as I'm not going to sit here with a wheel and pretend I'm behind a car unless I do it right and that is NOT cheap so I find the controller perfect, just like I've been using since the first FM came out on OG Xbox.

I've also got a 330hp RWD Sedan as my daily that itches my go fast needs behind a wheel too so that probably plays a role.
Have to agree on this. I will not say it is the better game, but as simcade on PC it is a great game to play with a controller. PC is ok but PC2 i just can't keep the car on the road.

With the wheel, there are way better options on pc of course.
 
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