Support NeoGAF

[see5harp]

No, they wouldn't have had major chart success without grunge going in first. Grunge cleaned house, blasting away the buildup of all the '80s stars, and made room for fresh alternative rock acts. It's hard to explain if you weren't listening at the time.

In Toronto we have this long-running radio show called The Ongoing History of New Music, which I used to listen to, and the host has gone into great detail on it from time to time.

I'm 35 and my first rock album was Pearl Jam 10. Come on dude.

 

[Screaming Meat]

The grunge explosion in 1991-1992 made alternative rock a commercially viable product, after the success of Nirvana and Pearl Jam major label records and the radio and MTV snapped up anything alternative or punk or whatever in hopes of curating the next big hit. Look at bands like Green Day, who were moderate successes in their own scene, but became platinum selling superstars after the grunge explosion.

If none of this had happened it's unlikely Radiohead would have been given the chance to have "Creep" be a hit on the radio and MTV, let alone tracks off Ok Computer.

Creep's success? Sure, I won't argue that.

Maybe it's a little different in the US, but I'd suggest the Britpop explosion in the U.K. - arguably a reaction against American alt-rock - is where Radiohead became an enduring 'mainstream' fixture and cemented their reputation. They moved away from their Pixies fetishism to a much more - though not entirely - 'classic' rock sound, and pumped out 4 or 5 well received and relatively high charting singles. I'd say that set up OKC more than grunge.

Now, you could say "ah, but the alt-rock boom paved the way for Britpop, even if it was a reaction against it". Sure, but then we'd have to say that Stadium/Cock-Rock paved the way for Grunge, and Glam and Hair rock paved the way for them, and so on until the beginning of radio. Rock has, up until now, been a fairly heavy fixture on radio. No matter what prefix you use, it's all just rock music at the end of the day.

I don't get why these other bands get lumped in with Nirvana. STP was a psychedelic rock group from California.

I don't disagree.

You should check out your local music scene

This is SUPERB advice.

 

[jstripes]

The mid '90s were some of the best years of my life. I was 17 years old when my friends and I first discovered Nirvana's latest album at the time - Nevermind.

Then just like that, like a bolt of lightning, our taste in music shifted entirely from glam rock to alternative/grunge rock.

Suddenly, the musical landscape became this magical plethora of new sounds that gave us this amazing buzz. It was like a drug. Every new band, album and song we heard was like a shot of euphoria. The first time I heard Stone Temple Pilots's song Dead And Bloated, it raised the hair on the back of my neck every time I listened to it.

I didn't know that music could be so powerful in that way. '80s rock didn't have that effect. This was something new and exciting and transformative.

There's been nothing like that era since to have that kind of impact on my life. I only wish I could share what I felt at that time with everyone today who wasn't there to be part of it all.

And then...it was gone. Somewhere around, I wanna say 1997, it all just disappeared as quickly as it came in. Hip-hop took over MTV, 3rd rate copy-cat grunge bands took over radio. Cobain was gone. The scene changed once again and life continued on.

Crazy how things go.

The funny thing there is that grunge was an echo of the late '70s/early '80s "post punk" scene, but one that caught the ear of the mainstream. What reflects that even more is that before he died, Kurt Cobain admitted he'd like to experiment with evolving into a new wave sound, which is what post punk evolved into.

 

[jstripes]

I'm 35 and my first rock album was Pearl Jam 10. Come on dude.

I'm 38 and I had the radio on all the time back then.

 

[TheBaldEmperor]

The disrespect shown to Billy Corgan in this thread is appalling. Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness outrank any material made by these "major" grunge band lead singers.

 

[karasu]

The screaming trees? Dinosaur jr?

 

[Fercho]

Yes, the woman who was grieving so hard for her husband she literally climbed into the casket with him almost DEFINITEY HAD HIM KILLED. Jesus fucking Christ will people ever stop with this bullshit. There isnt enough tin foil in the fucking universe to make this true.

Well...in all fairness i never said i agree with that theory (i don't)

On Topic: I didn't knew that Smashing Pumpkins where considered grunge, i love smashing pumpkins

 

[jstripes]

The disrespect shown to Billy Corgan in this thread is appalling. Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness outrank any material made by these "major" grunge band lead singers.

We respect what he was, but not what he became.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

Maroon 5.

what. The. Fuck.

 

[ComputerBlue]

Saw Chris Cornell about 8 years ago in concert. I grew up listening to grunge, Back in 92-93 I got my frist CD player and with it I got my first CD, which was either Dirt or Jar of Flies. I can't remember. But man were those years amazing for music, between the tail end of 80's music, and 90's grunge and rap. It was great. I'm gonna watch Singles tonight to remember the times.

I see plenty of people naming other bands, but the title says 5 major, which is pretty much true. Smashing Pumpkins though, I dunno if I ever considered them grunge...are they? I don't think so.

 

[minor effort]

This thread is a reminder that nearly every reasonably big alternative rock band from 1992-1994 got labeled as "grunge". Weezer, Smashing Pumpkins, Dinosaur Jr., even Sonic Youth get the label often enough. Grunge is sort of both an genre and an era.

But I think the five bands the OP listed fit the billing pretty well.

 

[Striker]

Love pretty much all of Alice in Chains and Stone Temple Pilots and my Spotify Playlist accurately reflects so. Grunge is just about the only rock I will listen to that was made after the early 1990s. Given that I don't like Pearl Jam it's sad I'll never hear any of that music live in its original form.

My man.

I like Soundgarden and Nirvana too but not nearly as much as I do STP and Alice in Chains - even the later Alice with the new guy because Jerry is still killing it writing material.

 

[urge26]

I'm 40, and my sister put a tape in of smells like teen spirit and it literally changed all my preferences in 5 minutes. People can knock grunge all they want, but that was my Dark Side moment and no kids have those these days.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

is dinosaur jr grunge

There is definitely grunge influence in Dino Jr.

 

[witness]

In need to see Pearl Jam immediately man.

 

[MisterR]

Grunge broke big right when I was in High School. It was a huge influence on me and it's sad as hell and really makes me feel old have lost these icons.

 

[Luschient]

Also interesting that singers from the "darker" industrial/electronic side of music during the same time that grunge was huge are still around. Thinking of Reznor, Manson, etc. I don't recall any high-profile deaths from that genre like grunge has had.

 

[see5harp]

I'm 38 and I had the radio on all the time back then.

I'm referring to the "it's hard to explain if you weren't listening at the time" line like I wasn't actual a teenager listening to radio and buying music.

 

[Hydrus]

Jerry Cantrell is still alive and kicking ass. Also AiC always felt more metal than grunge.

 

[Dishwalla]

Creep's success? Sure, I won't argue that.

Maybe it's a little different in the US, but I'd suggest the Britpop explosion in the U.K. - arguably a reaction against American alt-rock - is where Radiohead became an enduring 'mainstream' fixture and cemented their reputation. They moved away from their Pixies fetishism to a much more - though not entirely - 'classic' rock sound, and pumped out 4 or 5 well received and relatively high charting singles. I'd say that set up OKC more than grunge.

I mean you do have a valid point in that the UK music scene worked and still works differently than here in the US. Britpop was/is known, but was never as popular as it was over there. In the US Blur is mainly known for "Song 2", not many people know them beyond that. Without Nirvana and Pearl Jam it's very possible that Radiohead may have ended up in the same boat, with a cult following rather than mainstream success.

Now, you could say "ah, but the alt-rock boom paved the way for Britpop, even if it was a reaction against it". Sure, but then we'd have to say that Stadium/Cock-Rock paved the way for Grunge, and Glam and Hair rock paved the way for them, and so on until the beginning of radio. Rock has, up until now, been a fairly heavy fixture on radio. No matter what prefix you use, it's all just rock music at the end of the day.

That's just the way the music industry works. Grunge was a trend and nothing more, after a few years the grunge trend faded and gave way to something new. By the mid 1990s grunge was dead, and punk/pop punk/ska were the new hotness. Eventually that gave way to nu metal in the late 90s, and so on and so forth. It's just the way things work.

 

[minor effort]

Also interesting that singers from the "darker" industrial/electronic side of music during the same time that grunge was huge are still around. Thinking of Reznor, Manson, etc. I don't recall any high-profile deaths from that genre like grunge has had.

I guess I'm steering into goth and deathrock, but Rozz Williams comes to mind. But he was never really a household name like Trent Reznor or Marilyn Manson.

 

[Irobot82]

Screaming Trees is still around. But they should have put Mother Love Bone in that list.

Edit: Also Sonic Youth right?

 

[Markoman]

Pretty much all of my heroes from the era when I was 16-18 are gone now: Layne Stayley, Chris Cornell, Peter Toole, Dimebag Darrell. I will pray for Mike Muir today so he doesn't join that club to soon.

Meanwhile in hell, Satan is losing his patience with Keith Richards. This guy will survive all of us.

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

Local H is opening for Metallica tonight. They put out one of, if not the best, rock albums of 2015 and may go back in the studio later this year to record again. Not exactly grunge, but grunge-inspired at least.

 

[Affeinvasion]

Don't forget Mother Love Bone. They started the trend...and led to Temple of the Dog.

 

[Akala]

Screaming Trees is still around. But they should have put Mother Love Bone in that list.

Edit: Also Sonic Youth right?

sonic youth has been around since the early eighties, their SST years were prob more of an influence than anything.

Then again soundgarden was apparently formed in 1984 so I guess I'm splitting hairs here lol

 

[Teggy]

There is definitely grunge influence in Dino Jr.

Wha...Dinosaur Jr. predates grunge by a bunch of years and they are from the east coast.

 

[LiQuid!]

The disrespect shown to Billy Corgan in this thread is appalling. Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness outrank any material made by these "major" grunge band lead singers.

Tell em!


Honestly the worst part of all my old grunge heroes dying is that they've all been to tragic circumstances. Hopefully Eddie will live out a long and healthy rest of his life and die of natural causes. These poor grunge bands have been thru enough.

Even tho I loved all the music when I was younger, that phase of my life has been over for decades and I don't revisit it often aside from occasional nostalgia trips on youtube. So it doesn't particularly hit me that hard (no celebrity death does, honestly) but it sucks in particular to lose Cornell when he was so uniquely talented, not to mention in the midst of producing new material

 

[Faiz]

The alt class of 1994 is still kicking. Billie Joe Armstrong, Rivers Cuomo, Dexter Holland, Brett Gurewitz, Tim Armstrong, Fat Mike, etc.

A-fucking-men. To think we almost lost Tim Armstrong post-opivy/pre-rancid. Can't imagine what my musical mindscape would be like if that happened.

 

[Markoman]

Don't forget Mother Love Bone. They started the trend...and led to Temple of the Dog.

Sorry, that is not true. Temple of the Dog was a just side project of the "Seattle scene".
Mother Love Bone, great band but didn't inspire the "Grunge sound" one bit imo.
If anything Green River (Mudhoney, Pearl Jam members) kicked off Grunge in the mid 80s.

 

[Alter_Fridge]

Mudhoney is ok doe

 

[Markoman]

Oh, are we talking the trend of Seattle musicians of the late 80s/early 90s dying young? My bad, yes Mother Love Bone's singer died very young, too.

 

[pixelation]

Why is Pearl Jam considered grunge?, their music has no teeth... no bite.

 

[Data West]

not to stomp on the grave

but it was the big four and STP was never part of it

 

[Quikies83]

Early Bush and Silverchair!!
We still got these guys... Sorta

 

[Faiz]

Why is Pearl Jam considered grunge?, their music has no teeth... no bite.

They bummed around Seattle wearing flannel. That's pretty much it, there's no grunge "sound".

 

[Quikies83]

They bummed around Seattle wearing flannel. That's pretty much it, there's no grunge "sound".

Yup.

 

[Fugu]

It's simple. They are from Seattle and came out the same time as the others.

Fine, but defining the genre in that way is totally useless from a musical standpoint.

 

[Screaming Meat]

I mean you do have a valid point in that the UK music scene worked and still works differently than here in the US. Britpop was/is known, but was never as popular as it was over there. In the US Blur is mainly known for "Song 2", not many people know them beyond that. Without Nirvana and Pearl Jam it's very possible that Radiohead may have ended up in the same boat, with a cult following rather than mainstream success.

I dunno, that's kind of hard to measure, isn't it? Not least of all because both The Bends and OKC occupy very different parts of the rock spectrum to grunge. To me, it's like arguing that, even though they're very different sounding, Motley Crue paved the way for Nirvana. It won't fly!

What is pretty clear to me, is that Radiohead's success in U.K. made someone at Parlophone think it might translate well in the US. I reckon everything after that is down to their quality and their marketing.

That's just the way the music industry works. Grunge was a trend and nothing more, after a few years the grunge trend faded and gave way to something new. By the mid 1990s grunge was dead, and punk/pop punk/ska were the new hotness. Eventually that gave way to nu metal in the late 90s, and so on and so forth. It's just the way things work.

Exactly. I'm not lamenting it; I'm pointing out the futility of suggesting X led to Y when talking about aesthetically opposed sub-sections of the same genre.

Edit: Also Sonic Youth right?

They're not grunge.

 

[Markoman]

Fine, but defining the genre in that way is totally useless from a musical standpoint.

Congratulations, welcome to the world of music journalism.
Remember Punk?

 

[captive]

The alt class of 1994 is still kicking. Billie Joe Armstrong, Rivers Cuomo, Dexter Holland, Brett Gurewitz, Tim Armstrong, Fat Mike, etc.

the offspring are more punk than anything.

1. Scott Weiland is dead? How did I miss that?!?!

2. AiC is considered Grunge? Since when?

Alice in Chains imo is the most "Grunge" of any of the bands in the OP.

 

[nitewulf]

I've never been a fan of these groups or grunge for that matter.

I love Pearl Jam though ,

what

 

[Robert807]

I remember hear a long time ago, I think it was on the hype document, that one of the reason the Seattle my is scene took off is because of Microsoft and the university's in Seattle. Microsoft started to hire lots of workers in the late 80s early 90s. Those where higher paying jobs. Most of the people working there had some extra money to go out and do stuff. Them and the university people like to go to clubs to see any band that happend to be playing that night. That helped out the bands big time because the bands would get paid ok money for each show. The would sell Records and band shirts. That gave that bands money to pay for recording time and to go out and tour. I read that nirvana was getting 600 bucks for the occasional show. I always wonder if the whole Microsoft employees going out to show is true. It would make sense , your young and you got money to go out.

 

[nitewulf]

Back then, we just called all these bands "alternative". You asked anyone at school what they liked, the hip thing to say was, "I like alternative", "Like what?", "Smashing Pumpkins, Nirvana..."

To me AiC, Soundgarden were really more hard rock/metal than anything.

 

[nitewulf]

I remember hear a long time ago, I think it was on the hype document, that one of the reason the Seattle my is scene took off is because of Microsoft and the university's in Seattle. Microsoft started to hire lots of workers in the late 80s early 90s. Those where higher paying jobs. Most of the people working there had some extra money to go out and do stuff. Them and the university people like to go to clubs to see any band that happend to be playing that night. That helped out the bands big time because the bands would get paid ok money for each show. The would sell Records and band shirts. That gave that bands money to pay for recording time and to go out and tour. I read that nirvana was getting 600 bucks for the occasional show. I always wonder if the whole Microsoft employees going out to show is true. It would make sense , your young and you got money to go out.

Oh I wouldn't doubt this for a second. Economy is built on transference of money. Those with the corporate jobs had money, and just because many of them were techies doesn't mean they didn't enjoy great music and drinking/dancing/food. Intel and Boeing are also located in nearby areas (Portland suburbs), and Seattle was (still is) the biggest city for that whole area.

 

[Markoman]

I remember hear a long time ago, I think it was on the hype document, that one of the reason the Seattle my is scene took off is because of Microsoft and the university's in Seattle. Microsoft started to hire lots of workers in the late 80s early 90s. Those where higher paying jobs. Most of the people working there had some extra money to go out and do stuff. Them and the university people like to go to clubs to see any band that happend to be playing that night. That helped out the bands big time because the bands would get paid ok money for each show. The would sell Records and band shirts. That gave that bands money to pay for recording time and to go out and tour. I read that nirvana was getting 600 bucks for the occasional show. I always wonder if the whole Microsoft employees going out to show is true. It would make sense , your young and you got money to go out.

Nice theory, but I don't think this is the driving factor.
They were like 30+ talented musicians in that town who got along quite nicely and played together in various bands/projects. Then there was Sub Pop a growing local label.
Then somehow that Nirvana video hit heavy rotation on MTV. Boom.

 

[100%TrophyMaster]

Early Bush and Silverchair!!
We still got these guys... Sorta

Whooo loved both those bands so much.
Sixteen Stone and Frogstomp were so good.
I followed Silverchair for awhile--really wish Daniel Johns still rocked out like the old days

 

[Gigglepoo]

Fine, but defining the genre in that way is totally useless from a musical standpoint.

Have you never heard of the British Invasion?

 

[Timeaisis]

I never understood why Soundgarden was considered grunge. It's more hard rock (and almost metal) a lot of the time. I guess it's from Seattle, so there's that, and that is where they started, to a degree.

Grunge has always been a really poor descriptor of music for me. Like alternative rock, which was also used to describe grunge.

EDIT: Oh, look someone agrees.

I don't get Soundgarden being characterized as a grunge band. I like grunge quite a bit and I also like Soundgarden, but pretty much none of the defining characteristics of grunge line up with the defining characteristics of Soundgarden.

Yup, pretty much same.

 

[Faiz]

Back then, we just called all these bands "alternative". You asked anyone at school what they liked, the hip thing to say was, "I like alternative", "Like what?", "Smashing Pumpkins, Nirvana..."

To me AiC, Soundgarden were really more hard rock/metal than anything.

"Back then" "we" used the term grunge ironically. It was more Mtv and Record Label marketing a scene than anything else.

"We" used "alternative" much the same way, but was way more broad than "grunge".

It's weird looking back on it, I was really into Pearl Jam at the time, and still have a certain respect/nostalgia for it, but the only lasting attachment I have to any of them was Nirvana.