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[Walshicus]

....aaaaaaaand here comes the violence from the ruling class through legal means. The prick has just ordered the police to break the protesters blockades in the fuel depots.

Yeah, so workers could actually *work* there without being blocked by protesters.

Protest all you want, just don't prevent those who aren't from doing their jobs.

 

[British Monsoon]

I haven't been following this at all, what are the chances of this being sorted out by Sunday? My parents are stuck in Normandy, with only a half tank of petrol and none left at any of the local stations.

 

[fortified_concept]

Yeah, so workers could actually *work* there without being blocked by protesters.

Protest all you want, just don't prevent those who aren't from doing their jobs.

I think you're missing the point of this kind of protests. The strikers don't aim just to protest but also to disrupt and hurt economic interests.

 

[UnluckyKate]

I haven't been following this at all, what are the chances of this being sorted out by Sunday? My parents are stuck in Normandy, with only a half tank of petrol and none left at any of the local stations.

Time to get wood.

 

[Walshicus]

I think you're missing the point. This kind protests don't aim just to protest but also to disrupt and hurt economic interests.

Which is why it's bullshit.

Ordinary people there are being affected by a small segment of morons.

 

[fortified_concept]

Which is why it's bullshit.

Ordinary people there are being affected by a small segment of morons.

It's not a small segment, the majority of the country is against that prick. And of course people are affected it's a countrywide strike ffs, that's the point. It's already difficult to oppose the government as it is even with the enormous balls the french have, with your mentality they'd achieve nothing and let the Thatcherian piece of shit to screw them over.

 

[dark10x]

It's not a small segment, the majority of the country is against that prick. And of course people are affected it's a countrywide strike ffs, that's the point. It's already difficult to oppose the government as it is even with the enormous balls the french have, with your mentality they'd achieve nothing and let the Thatcherian piece of shit to screw them over.

So you really think they're being screwed over by these new policies and the system they have now could be maintained long term without change?

 

[fortified_concept]

So you really think they're being screwed over by these new policies and the system they have now could be maintained long term without change?

No, change will be necessary. They can cut the defense spending and tax the fucking banks for example.

 

[Tabris]

I love how people are "What's the point of protesting?" and "Nothing ever good happens from these". Unlike countries like America, France's government is generally "afraid" of it's citizens and not the other way around. Citizens don't like something, they strike, the government then compromises or accomodates for the citizens. Isn't that what democracy should be like?

 

[NotWii]

Or 67 for that matter. My grandfather around that age stopped driving because he kept getting lost and disoriented. And they want to put people to work at that age. :lol

And yeah, I know some old timers, they shouldn't be made to work, it's inhumane.

What a pitiful state humanity has come to. Even in ancient tribes the old were being taken care of.

In asia, the young usually take care of the old.

 

[Mael]

I love how people are "What's the point of protesting?" and "Nothing ever good happens from these". Unlike countries like America, France's government is generally "afraid" of it's citizens and not the other way around. Citizens don't like something, they strike, the government then compromises or accomodates for the citizens. Isn't that what democracy should be like?

first for the bold :lol, if you followed THAT particular government you'd know how much that's not true.

For the italics, that's also not how it should go, after all we've elected people to do the acomodations : parliaments.
Or we can totally burn them to the ground if they're not there to actually discuss the laws so that it suits everyone.

And for the last part, hell NO.
We've got multiple mechanisms that mean we don't have to block half the country on every law the government wants to pass.

And finally the youth nobody really gives a shit about, the major problems are the truck drivers. That's the people no one want to go on strike => no more oil, no more transportations.
Seriously what are the youth going to do compared to them? not study and miss a year?
that'll show Sarkozy!

 

[ClosingADoor]

No, change will be necessary. They can cut the defense spending and tax the fucking banks for example.

Tax banks, see them leave to other countries and miss all tax euros. It isn't as simple as "tax the rich". Makes a good one-liner, but never works.

I hope Sarkozy sticks with his points. If he doesn't, what would happen with reforms in other countries? Would the British start protesting like this, Italians, Germans?

Yes, mistakes were made in the past (and are still being made no doubt), but not doing anything and continue spending like there is no tomorrow is no solution.

 

[dave is ok]

Tax banks, see them leave to other countries and miss all tax euros. It isn't as simple as "tax the rich". Makes a good one-liner, but never works.

Where are they going to go? Every rich European owns property in France because it's much cheaper to than to own it in practically every other first world European country

 

[Mael]

Where are they going to go? Every rich European owns property in France because it's much cheaper to than to own it in practically every other first world European country

And we can thank Sarkozy for that actually, he reformed the taxations for the properties (buildings and such) :lol.

And as for the banks leaving the country?
there's not enough :lol I could put without breaking the limit of character here.
I mean you actually think that a bank who have that many employees and operations tied to France to leave town?
You can't be serious!
That's already a major fallacy when you speak of the large fortunes to leave town if the taxation is too high, so for entire companies :lol

and clearly if they stick or not to there guns only means 1 thing :
whether or not they'll make other reforms or not.

IT means jackshit to other european countries, they'll just deem Sarkozy weak/not weak over whether he succeed or not.
The brits will do their things, likewise for everyone else, you can quote me on that.

 

[ClosingADoor]

And we can thank Sarkozy for that actually, he reformed the taxations for the properties (buildings and such) :lol.

And as for the banks leaving the country?
there's not enough :lol I could put without breaking the limit of character here.
I mean you actually think that a bank who have that many employees and operations tied to France to leave town?
You can't be serious!
That's already a major fallacy when you speak of the large fortunes to leave town if the taxation is too high, so for entire companies :lol

and clearly if they stick or not to there guns only means 1 thing :
whether or not they'll make other reforms or not.

IT means jackshit to other european countries, they'll just deem Sarkozy weak/not weak over whether he succeed or not.
The brits will do their things, likewise for everyone else, you can quote me on that.

No company will leave a country when they are still making some profit there, but future investments could go to other parts of the world where it is more profitable.

And I'm just against the whole "tax the rich" principle. As if 'poor' people didn't make bad judgements which contributed to the crisis. Maybe read the fine print and think to yourself "I don't have this kind of money, so why buy a house that I can never pay for".

Don't you think that stuff like this in one of the largest countries of Europe has some kind of effect on policy in surrounding countries? I'm betting the other EU leaders are looking very closely at how France is handling this and how the public reacts when they make their policies.

 

[Mael]

No company will leave a country when they are still making some profit there, but future investments could go to other parts of the world where it is more profitable.

We're speaking of banks here, I don't think the financial group BNP Paribas will actually stop investing in their french products because the taxation is so heavy!
Seriously banks are so very far from not making a profit here it's laughable.
Seriously I'm not joking even on the stuffs the average Joe uses they're making a killing and don't think that they're actually providing money for the poor to buy a house or something :lol
That's never been a problem here, we don't lend to the poor.

And I'm just against the whole "tax the rich" principle. As if 'poor' people didn't make bad judgements which contributed to the crisis. Maybe read the fine print and think to yourself "I don't have this kind of money, so why buy a house that I can never pay for".

You speak of poor judgement on a topic about a country where the richest woman is actually being abused by suitors to steal her money, I mean :lol

Don't you think that stuff like this in one of the largest countries of Europe has some kind of effect on policy in surrounding countries? I'm betting the other EU leaders are looking very closely at how France is handling this and how the public reacts when they make their policies.

Jackshit happened when the very same reform didn't happen between 95 and 97, nothing will happen here either.
It's largely an internal problem to France, now if the much larger problem of the 2011 budget do NOT pass THAT will prove to have effects in Europe.

 

[ClosingADoor]

We're speaking of banks here, I don't think the financial group BNP Paribas will actually stop investing in their french products because the taxation is so heavy!
Seriously banks are so very far from not making a profit here it's laughable.
Seriously I'm not joking even on the stuffs the average Joe uses they're making a killing and don't think that they're actually providing money for the poor to buy a house or something :lol
That's never been a problem here, we don't lend to the poor.

Taxes go up, costs for the consumer and small businesses go up. You think the CEOs will just say "hey, you doubled my taxes, that's fine"? No, they will try to keep their profits on the same level to make shareholders happy and thus cut expenses and raise costs. I don't like it either, but that's how it works.

You speak of poor judgement on a topic about a country where the richest woman is actually being abused by suitors to steal her money, I mean :lol

What has this to do with anything?

 

[dave is ok]

Taxes go up, costs for the consumer and small businesses go up. You think the CEOs will just say "hey, you doubled my taxes, that's fine"? No, they will try to keep their profits on the same level to make shareholders happy and thus cut expenses and raise costs. I don't like it either, but that's how it works.

Not every country is as despicable as America is

If you really blame America's economic collapse on poor people - I don't know what to tell you

 

[ClosingADoor]

Not every country is as despicable as America is

If you really blame America's economic collapse on poor people - I don't know what to tell you

My point was every level of society has contributed to the problems we have now, poor and rich. Everyone has made bad decisions and wanted to spent more and more then thay actually had. It's a very easy way out to just say "let the rich fucks pay up" and not wanting to contribute anything to the solution yourself.

 

[Mael]

Taxes go up, costs for the consumer and small businesses go up. You think the CEOs will just say "hey, you doubled my taxes, that's fine"? No, they will try to keep their profits on the same level to make shareholders happy and thus cut expenses and raise costs. I don't like it either, but that's how it works.

We're talking about banks here, not Renault or PSA.
They CAN'T leave, we could make a simulation showing at what point does a bank decide to up and leave but that'll only prove to show that it needs a level of taxation that not even commie Besancenot would dream of.

What has this to do with anything?

poor judgement is not a reason to tax someone, it doesn't even begin to come be a reason why we tax someone. Seriously we've got an example of an hyper rich with some of the worst judgement ever and you come and say the poor are dumb they should be the one we tax since they're so dumb.
I mean let's be real for a second here.
And as Sarkozy proved, lowering the tax for the 1% most rich of the population doesn't lead to more money for the state or to people actually returning from tax avoison.
More people actually hid money from the state after they put in place the tax shelter for the rich than before.
It's so useless that they're planning to remove it next year.
And thus another fallacy proved to a be fallacy.

 

[itxaka]

I think you're missing the point of this kind of protests. The strikers don't aim just to protest but also to disrupt and hurt economic interests.

Exercise your rigths whhile supressing others rigths? Yeah, what about no. I fully supports strikers, but that is just bullshit. You got the rigth to strike and it's your decision to do it, not others. If you want to go to work they should allow them, not fuck them and impose their decisions, which is actually what they aare protesting against, a guy that wants to choose their retirement age for them.

 

[Ripclawe]

What this about are a bunch of people who think everything should be paid for by someone else. What sarkozy should do is say fuck it and give in to the protests, make policies that will eventually drive the country to Greek levels.

 

[scorcho]

What this about are a bunch of people who think everything should be paid for by someone else. What sarkozy should do is say fuck it and give in to the protests, make policies that will eventually drive the country to Greek levels.

Greece was done in by dodgy tax collection and shifty government accounting.

 

[Mael]

What this about are a bunch of people who think everything should be paid for by someone else. What sarkozy should do is say fuck it and give in to the protests, make policies that will eventually drive the country to Greek levels.

So what you're saying is you don't understand a thing about what the people are in the street for! Interesting...

 

[Ether_Snake]

So what you're saying is you don't understand a thing about what the people are in the street for! Interesting...

Or what happened in Greece.

 

[Mael]

Or what happened in Greece.

Or that or maybe he's really saying Sarkozy should change how the state is run to make sure nobody is paying any tax at all or something...
Also for background, Sarkozy's administration actually went and updated all the internal working of the state (and I mean the whole administration), meaning that the country's administration is now on the verge of using a unified information system that spans from the smallest city all to the biggest ministry.
It's not a well known fact but to be short :
- it's the biggest public IT project in Europe right now
- it's been won by SAP
- it's going to make many, many, many, many people redundant
- people in the public sector are not happy about that, AT ALL

so as far as taking France to the stone age.....yep, not there yet...

 

[Magni]

Sorry I'm late, I ended up passing the evening over at a friend's place last night.. haven't forgotten you guys though =) First:

Hahahahahha

Rage spills out on to the streets of France... as Sarkozy and Carla Bruni live the high life
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...a-Bruni-live-high-life.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

While in parts true, this is still pretty sensationalist journalism. It wasn't like it was in downtown Lyon or in Le Mans all over France. More over, ~12% of the public sector is on strike, the rest of France is working.

Concerning Sarkozy's personal expenses, it's not like Chirac or Mitterand were better.. Honestly doesn't surprise me (not saying I condone it, I don't).

Because France has better and more informed youth than most countries. They're smart citizens that care about the future and not just what affects them right now.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol fortified_concept, every post you make makes me take you even less seriously. You have NO idea what you're talking about, and you love making it obvious to all of us. Wow, re-reading that again :lol :lol :lol

And now:

You're French-American currently living in France, right? Are you planning to stay there after your studies? How long did you live in the US, out of curiosity?

I am somewhat your inverse- I am French and was in France until I was 20, then moved to the US (I am now 28, so I have spent roughly a fourth of my life here). I get that question a lot too :lol .I do miss France a whole lot, though.

Btw, in the video you sent, that protester brunette was hotter than the anti-protester blonde

On the topic of protests, for those who claim that as life expectancy goes longer, you need to work more, the argument against this is that as technology keeps increasing, we need to work much less for the same standard of living (and many in France feel that the need for consuming always more needs to be 'curbed' and stabilized, so that goes even further in the direction of 'less work').

Nevertheless, while I do find myself cheering for anti-sarkozy protests in general, on this particular topic, I don't quite think it's realistic yet.

Alright, my post now. First of all, this only represents my view of France and the United States, I'm only 19 and haven't lived across all of France or all of America, so this isn't the full picture obviously, but it's a great deal more than what 99% of everyone else here has on this particular topic.

In France, I've lived in Paris (lower 16th) and in the petite couronne (92), in southern France (Montpellier), and am now studying in eastern France (Belfort, 30 minutes from the Swiss and German borders).

In the US, I lived eight years in Bellevue, Washington (on the Seattle Eastside).

I did my high school years in France so I stayed for my college as well, as it was more convenient, and 100x cheaper (only considering school fees!)

Neither country is superior to the other on every front of course, but I intend to return to the US and stay there. I'd prefer going to Canada, or maybe Sweden/Norway, rather than stay in France.

For me (once again, France and the US refer to the areas to which I've been) :

The positives in France:

-socialism's good side: free or cheap healthcare and education
-French/Maghrebi food (fromages, patisseries, charcuteries, etc, and couscous, tajines): fromages and patisseries can be found in the US, but not at the same price, real charcuterie is close to impossible, thanks to import bans. As for couscous and the rest, I never really found any up to par in Seattle compared to what we had
-no religious fanatics: there are still devout Catholics left, but they are sane. I didn't see that many fanatics in Seattle, but still more than in all of France so far.
-(for me) all of my family is here, and dozens of dozens of friends as well

The positives in the US:

-smaller government: I prefer managing my finances myself rather than having the government do it for me. There needs to be a minimum (health care and education), but not much else.
-nature: as someone who grew up in the Pacific Northwest, I have been missing big open spaces, full of all sorts of life except human, for six years now. I've searched everywhere, the Alps are great, but it's not the same..
-sports: I played ice hockey for ten years. I played baseball. I played football. Not only are these sports almost inexistent in France, but with the education model in place, it's impossible to practice any sport at high level while doing any type of serious studies.
-education model: as much as France wins the cost argument, I prefer the American model by far for everything else. The way classes are organized in France is.. ugh, I hated every single second of it for four years, before graduating from lycée (high school). You have very little choice in what classes you follow, up to junior year everyone does more or less the same thing, and then the only choice you have is very limited (physics, economy, or litterature). I had much more choice in 6th grade in the US! The student-teacher relationship in France is also much worse than the American one.
Latino/Asian/Fast food: you can find some Mexican restaurants in France, but it's just not the same. Quite a few Vietnamese restaurants, but for the rest the selection is much worse than in the US, and much more expensive. For fast foods, your choice is very limited. I never thought I'd miss Fatburger one day :lol
Money's not taboo: just something that keeps bothering me here. If you buy a new car in the US, it's "congrats! good for you!", in France it's (behind your back) "must be a drug dealer! he probably has good relations up high.." Seems like no one thinks you can legitimately..

I'd love a hybrid of the two countries, closer to France for the cost of healthcare and education, and great for sports, nature, and food. You understand why I wouldn't mind living in Canada :lol

Sorry this is shorter than I initially announced guys, I've got tons of exams over the next ten days (and then break ), and I, like the vast majority of Frenchmen, am not on strike.

 

[Canova]

What the heck is going on in France right now?

riots everywhere?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101020/ap_on_bi_ge/eu_france_retirement_strikes

PARIS – Workers opposed to a higher retirement age blocked roads to airports around France on Wednesday, leaving passengers in Paris dragging suitcases on foot along an emergency breakdown lane.

Outside the capital, hooded youths smashed store windows amid clouds of tear gas.

Riot police in black body armor forced striking workers away from blocked fuel depots in western France, restoring gasoline to areas where pumps were dry after weeks of protests over the government proposal raising the age from 60 to 62.

Riot officers in the Paris suburb of Nanterre and the southeastern city of Lyon sprayed tear gas but appeared unable to stop the violence.

After months of largely peaceful disruptions, some protests erupted into scattered violence this week over the government's push to raise the retirement age from 60 to 62. President Nicolas Sarkozy vowed that his conservative party would pass the reform in a Senate vote expected Thursday.

Many workers feel the change would be a first step in eroding France's social benefits — which include long vacations, contracts that make it hard for employers to lay off workers and a state-subsidized health care system — in favor of "American-style capitalism."

Sarkozy ordered all fuel depots forcibly reopened and vowed Wednesday that he would "carry the retirement reform through to the end." And despite France's tolerance for a long tradition of strikes and protest, official patience appeared to be waning after weeks of actions that have snarled traffic, cancelled flights and dwindling gasoline supplies and, now, rising urban violence.

Protesters waving red union flags and reflective vests temporarily blocked the main road leading to one of two terminals at Orly Airport on Wednesday. The ADP airport authority warned on its website of "serious difficulties expected in access to airports and air traffic."

The protests tangled traffic to the airport and some passengers walked hundreds of meters (yards) along an emergency lane to get there, dragging suitcases behind them. In one terminal, screens showed that 10 of 52 flights Wednesday afternoon were cancelled.

It's Baghdad here," said Lionel Philippe, who arrived at Orly after much difficulty because of protesters blocking access to the airport — only to find his flight to Biarritz cancelled.

He said he wasn't interested in the pension reform debate, he just wants to get home.


"I'm 28, by the time I retire everything will have changed anyway," he said.

At Charles de Gaulle airport north of Paris, the nation's biggest, protesters sang the French national anthem before pushing through a police barricade.

"It is like we are on another planet," said Canadian traveler Olivier Lejour, waiting to take off from Charles de Gaulle. While he said it was "fun" to watch, he said the protests disrupted his efforts to work in Paris.

The CGT Transport union says protests also shut down the Clermont-Ferrand airport in the south and disrupted airports in Nice and Nantes.

With nearly a third of France's gas stations dry, authorities stepped in overnight to force open three fuel depots blocked by striking workers for days, Interior Minister Brice Hortefeux said.

At one site in the western town of Donges, police formed a corridor along the road leading to the depot to allow trucks to pass in and out. Video footage showed officers peacefully herding striking workers away from one depot.

Hortefeux warned that the blockades threatened emergency services and could have grave consequences for the entire French economy and public health and safety.

Hortefeux warned rioters that "the right to protest is not the right to break things, the right to set things on fire, the right to assault, the right to pillage."

"We will use all means necessary to get these delinquents," including the GIGN paramilitary police, he said. The police deployed so far have been CRS riot police, helmeted and wielding shields, sometimes firing tear gas or rubber bullets.

There are still more than 3,000 gas stations empty of fuel, or about a quarter of those nationwide, the environment minister said Wednesday.

Over the past week, 1,423 people have been detained for protest-related violence and 62 police officers injured, he said. He said he ordered police to look at video surveillance to find more perpetrators, suggesting more arrests could be ahead.

In Nanterre on Wednesday morning, about 100 students blocked the school entrance and part of highway in front of the school, while a "tranquility team" of about 30 adults in special red jackets sought to keep things calm.

Then about 100 other youths arrived and started darting through the town streets, smashing store windows and throwing stones. Some store owners lowered metal blinds to avoid looting. Nine police vans were parked in the surrounding area.

The sidewalks of Nanterre were littered with glass from bus shelters and illuminated signs that had been smashed Tuesday. All the vehicles were removed Wednesday from the street in front of the school, because a car had been torched there the day before.

"We try to protect local residents and the mother passing by with children, we try to control the traffic to avoid that young people get hit, because this is not in the interest of the demonstration," said Elisabeth Guerrier, a social worker trying to act as a mediator in Wednesday's conflict.

In the city of Lyon, new clashes broke out Wednesday morning, with rioters running in small groups down different streets, throwing projectiles and setting off flares. At least 700 police officers were deployed, and some responded with tear gas and cordoned the rioters off. A gendarme helicopter circled overhead at low altitude. A delivery truck was set ablaze.

Hortefeux, the interior minister, visited the city in the afternoon, when tensions appeared to have calmed in Lyon and in Nanterre.

This week's clashes revived memories of student unrest in 2006 that forced the government to abandon another highly unpopular labor bill. And the specter of 2005 riots that spread through poor housing projects nationwide with disenfranchised immigrant populations is never far away.

Students plan new protests Thursday, with a demonstration in Paris hours before the Senate is expected to approve the retirement measure.

Strikes continued Wednesday at the SNCF national rail network, and one in three TGV high-speed train was cancelled.

Some 69 ships are waiting in waters outside Marseille because oil terminals are blocked by strikers.

In Marseille itself, some 150 members of the civil security service — which includes fire fighters and sappers — intervened to collect heaps of reeking garbage piled up after days of strikes by trash collectors. No buses were running in Marseille because unions were blocking the main bus depot. Protesters occupied the Marseille Chamber of Commerce before being kicked out by police.

___

Associated Press writers Jean-Marie Godard and Cecile Brisson in Paris, Nicolas Garriga and Jonathan Shenfield in Lyon, Oleg Cetinic and Paolo Santalucia in Nanterre and Alexis Duclos in Grandpuits contributed to this report.

 

[Kurtofan]

What the heck is going on in France right now?

riots everywhere?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101020/ap_on_bi_ge/eu_france_retirement_strikes

Young protesters blocked our bus and then a bus driver on strike made us wait one hour before going!

Lots of CRS (riot police) in front of my university.

 

[fortified_concept]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol fortified_concept, every post you make makes me take you even less seriously. You have NO idea what you're talking about, and you love making it obvious to all of us. Wow, re-reading that again :lol :lol :lol

You know, people who are from the country we talk about and act all superior as if they know better annoy the fuck out of me. I know plenty of idiots in mine that don't even know the ideology of each party so don't make the assumption that you automatically know better because you've lived in it.

When people ask me about Greece's fuckups I explain to them with facts not LOLs and if they ask for sources I provide them too. It's a known fact that the french youth participate in demonstrations and rallies. It's also a known fact that French education is one of the best in the world. This is evidence to me that they're politically active and smart. Prove me wrong.

 

[Zenith]

You know, people who are from the country we talk about and act all superior as if they know better annoy the fuck out of me. I know plenty of idiots in mine that don't even know the ideology of each party so don't make the assumption that you automatically know better because you've lived in it.

Would expect nothing less from the person who told native Venezuelans that their country wasn't a crumbling autocracy despite what they'd experienced first-hand. :lol

 

[fortified_concept]

Would expect nothing less from the person who told native Venezuelans that their country wasn't a crumbling autocracy despite what they'd experienced first-hand. :lol

Oh snap dude, you got me there. Buuuurn. It's not like I have reasons to question the motives of some individuals since Chavez is working for the majority which is the impoverished lower class while the upper class that can afford internet hates his guts. Nice offtopic btw, I'm sure that won't derail the thread now.

I also like how you didn't make an argument against mine which is perfectly valid, instead you just LOLed and gave another example where people act as if they know everything without providing actual proof.

 

[Zenith]

Oh snap dude, you got me there. Buuuurn. It's not like I have reasons to question the motives of some individuals since Chavez is working for the majority which is impoverished lower class while the upper class that can afford internet hates his guts. Nice offtopic btw. I'm sure that won't derail the thread now.

yes having internet access completely invalidates their opinions. what's going to be your excuse for the French posters here?

newsflash: actually living in the country in question will give you invaluable experience on the culture and status of affairs there that you could never get from reading newspapers. you are incredibly ill-informed.

 

[kittens]

This goes to show how inefficient and fragile industrialized civilization is.

 

[Dice]

Hahahahahha

Rage spills out on to the streets of France... as Sarkozy and Carla Bruni live the high life
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...a-Bruni-live-high-life.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Why is "POLICE" on the truck backwards?

 

[dark10x]

Man, this is just getting worse by the day. :\

I'm glad my in-laws made it back home safe near Lyon. They came to the US for a couple weeks and just arrived back in France a couple of days ago. Was afraid they'd end up stranded at the air port or somewhere else.

Why is "POLICE" on the truck backwards?

I hope you're joking (this question always seems to come up). It's for viewing "Police" in the rear view mirror of a car (though I do find it slightly bizarre that they've used this on a vehicle such as that).

 

[[Nintex]]

What the hell France, stay classy.

I sure hope the Dutch will keep it clean October 30th. :lol

 

[fortified_concept]

yes having internet access completely invalidates their opinions. what's going to be your excuse for the French posters here?

newsflash: actually living in the country in question will give you invaluable experience on the culture and status of affairs there that you could never get from reading newspapers. you are incredibly ill-informed.

Newsflash: There are many idiots in the world and their "invaluable" experience means shit in a discussion since they're too stupid and ignorant for their brain to process what is really happening around them. I bet I know more about USA for example than Christine O'Donnell and the majority of the teabaggers. I won't trust any random person on the net because they said so, sorry.

And how silly of me to ask for people to make a discussion with arguments instead of LOLs. I apologize, next time someone disagrees with me about Greece I'll just LOL instead of offering arguments and sources. That's how the cool kids do it.

 

[seb]

I'm French, and I could have written everything fortified_concept said.

 

[Bento]

This goes to show how inefficient and fragile french civilization is.

Fixed for you : P

 

[nelsonroyale]

France has always been a puzzling case...I mean such action as is occurring now is encouraging...quite a segment of the population disagree with the government's policy, so they are being proactive on that account (although the torching cars and such rubbish is entirely counterproductive)...Hopefully, they will stay at it long enough to force Sarkozy to step down...

People in the UK are pretty emasculated when it comes to standing up against top down cuts and even incursions on civil rights...its pretty messed up

This kind of thing just highlights how dependent we are though...without fuel and electricity for a week, many people would probably be on the edge of suicide...there is many comforts I would forgoe to see a change to the current system... I freely admit that I need to be more proactive (and I will)

 

[demosthenes]

No, change will be necessary. They can cut the defense spending and tax the fucking banks for example.

I'm sure they are taxed already and French banks probably a lot more than American banks.

Cut defense by how much? Tax the banks by how much?

What if those measures can't sustain keeping the retirement age to 60 b/c more and more people are living to 90+?

What's your next step? Who do you tax next?

 

[LQX]

I bet all of this would go away if on condition of accepting the new retirement age every retiree would get free whine and cheese for life.

 

[Drkirby]

Newsflash: There are many idiots in the world and their "invaluable" experience means shit in a discussion since they're too stupid and ignorant for their brain to process what is really happening around them. I bet I know more about USA for example than Christine O'Donnell and the majority of the teabaggers. I won't trust any random person on the net because they said so, sorry.

And how silly of me to ask for people to make a discussion with arguments instead of LOLs. I apologize, next time someone disagrees with me about Greece I'll just LOL instead of offering arguments and sources. That's how the cool kids do it.

... What is going on with Greece now? Is it the nation being bankrupt, or did something else happen while I wasn't watching.

 

[demosthenes]

... What is going on with Greece now? Is it the nation being bankrupt, or did something else happen while I wasn't watching.

Stable until their next due date, when that is, I'm not sure.

 

[fortified_concept]

I'm sure they are taxed already and French banks probably a lot more than American banks.

Cut defense by how much? Tax the banks by how much?

What if those measures can't sustain keeping the retirement age to 60 b/c more and more people are living to 90+?

What's your next step?

By as much as humanly possible. The taxes on the banks are so low it's fucking shameful and they're institutions that provide no actual service to society, they're leeches that make money off the backs of the workers that actually create the wealth. On the contrary they create problems nowadays because of their greed and incompetence and we have to pay for that.

Also defense budget: Who the fuck does France has to fear to waste all that money on defense? They have nuclear weapons ffs. It seems that the French weapons dealers who are quite powerful are forcing the government to buy unnecessary crap like it happens with most countries that host these fucking corporations.

If every step has been taken to prevent that from happening subsequently making France a fair society where the interests of the rich aren't above the interests of the majority but they still can't achieve that goal then I'd wholeheartedly agree with the increase. But a) The money wasted or lost to make the rich richer are ridiculously more than the money needed for the pension program b) until that happens I'll keep defending the struggle of the French.

 

[unomas]

I applaud the French, hopefully we get a nice uprising in the US after Bernanke is done destroying the worth of the dollar.

 

[demosthenes]

By as much as humanly possible. The taxes on the banks are so low it's fucking shameful and they're institutions that provide no actual service to society, they're leeches that make money off the backs of the workers that actually create the wealth. On the contrary they create problems nowadays because of their greed and incompetence and we have to pay for that.

Also defense budget: Who the fuck does France has to fear to waste all that money on defense? They have nuclear weapons ffs. It seems that the French weapons dealers who are quite powerful are forcing the government to buy unnecessary crap like it happens with most countries that host these fucking corporations.

If every step has been taken to prevent that from happening subsequently making France a fair society where the interests of the rich aren't above the interests of the majority but they still can't achieve that goal then I'd wholeheartedly agree with the increase. But a) The money wasted or lost to make the rich richer are ridiculously more than the money needed for the pension program b) until that happens I'll keep defending the struggle of the French.

I don't work for a bank, but my mom does. The fact that you think they perform nothing for society is laughable. Perhaps you're mistaking banks with investment banks? But if you really think banks, all banks are parasites then you're just...I don't even know what to call you.

I can't comment on French weapons dealers. However the defense budget for all nations will always remain at some minimum even in peaceful times. You can't just flip a switch, technology has to be updated, nuclear bombs need to be protected and updated.

And the bold, I believe you're French (correct me if I'm wrong). Can you give me numbers that back this up?

What do you think of this logic:

System A (Retirement) was setup years ago for Demographic A (The people, noting life expectancy and money needed for healthy standard of living). However Demographic A has changed to Demographic B (life expectancy has increased and cost of living has increased). System A isn't fit to handle the loads of Demographic B. Thus it needs to be altered.

 

[.la1n]

I love how people are "What's the point of protesting?" and "Nothing ever good happens from these". Unlike countries like America, France's government is generally "afraid" of it's citizens and not the other way around. Citizens don't like something, they strike, the government then compromises or accomodates for the citizens. Isn't that what democracy should be like?

It's the way it should work in America but we can't be bothered to actually get off our fat asses to do it. I'll be damned if there isn't a website helping people drive hours to find a McRib though.

 

[Enosh]

And the bold, I believe you're French (correct me if I'm wrong). Can you give me numbers that back this up

he is greek