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[Joni]

the newer seasons aren't terrible guys, give it a shot and watch some of it.

btw, what will they do when the voice actors eventually pass away?

There are three options:
- they permanently retire characters, like they did for Phil Hartman and Marcia Wallace.
- they replace them after a suitable time, like they did for Doris Grau whose Lunchlady Doris stayed out for 10 years.
- they replace them immediately if they are too important, which they haven't done yet. (Tress MacNeille did do some Lunchlady Doris scenes immediately after Doris Grau's death due to timing)

Looking at the ages, it is clearly Harry Shearer who is the risk. But they have already looked at replacing him after the payment conflict and they could get away with reshuffling those characters. Julie Kavner is 66. She has way less characters but is also more difficult to replace as Marge/Patty/Selma. Azaria, Castellaneta, Cartwright and Smith are in their 50s so they should hopefully be available for decades to come.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

the newer seasons aren't terrible guys, give it a shot and watch some of it.

btw, what will they do when the voice actors eventually pass away?

I did and they are.

Every now and then see a new episode, and think "how bad can it be"?

And every time I'm shown precisely how bad.

 

[Mr. Sam]

I'm saying boo-urns.

 

[geomon]

Oh, it's a "Treehouse of Horror" episode.

Damn, it's been 20 years since that episode aired? Holy crap!

I still remember The Simpsons skits on The Tracy Ullman Show. Fuck I'm old.

 

[Oberon]

I've never liked the original episode, and never got why other people might like it. (Except maybe sadism?)
If the intent was to make everyone look incredibly unlikable, then they succeeded, but it doesn't make the episode any funnier. I also doubt that torturing a guy for a whole episode then killing can be called good dark humour.
At least they didn't bring back a character ( even if it's just a horror ep) from a good episode like Poochie, so I can't really care.

 

[StayDead]

At least it's a ghost during Treehouse of Horror.

Hey, they brought back the psychiatrist back from the dead, why can't they here?

 

[Lovely Salsa]

Hey, they brought back the psychiatrist back from the dead, why can't they here?

Because psychiatrist never actually died

 

[ColdPizza]

Perfection

 

[mclem]

Are they saving Hank Scorpio's return for episode 1000?

Inanimate Carbon Rod to be introduced as a regular on episode 1500.

Spoiler

Series returns to its glory days as a result

 

[Paracelsus]

I've never liked the original episode, and never got why other people might like it. (Except maybe sadism?)
If the intent was to make everyone look incredibly unlikable, then they succeeded, but it doesn't make the episode any funnier. I also doubt that torturing a guy for a whole episode then killing can be called good dark humour.
At least they didn't bring back a character ( even if it's just a horror ep) from a good episode like Poochie, so I can't really care.

Homer in the early years was relatable. He knew his life was rubbish but he still got on with it anyway. He just wanted to get by okay and keep his family happy. The later episodes of the show would turn him into a complete moron. He has no redeeming features at all anymore and it's beyond any doubt that this episode is the turning point for him. This is the one where he becomes self-aware and marks the birth of Jerk-Ass Homer.

The plot sees Frank Grimes, a man for whom nothing goes right, working his way up until he eventually get a degree in nuclear physics and ends up at the power plant with Homer. He sees how stupid Homer is and is incensed by it when he sees how close Honer comes to killing everyone in his position as safety inspector. Grimes sets out to prove Homer's ineptitude for the job by tricking Homer into entering himself for a children's competition. When Homer wins, Grimes finally loses it and goes round doing dangerous things until he eventually kills himself.

"It doesn't matter, because I'm Homer Simpson!" he shouts each time. "You wish!" says Homer. See the problem? THIS is where Homer realises he can get away with everything and ceases to be relatable. Before this he wouldn't want to be living his life, but here he does. Grimes pointed this out to him just how good Homer's life has been with the unusual stuff he's done (winning a grammy, going to space, friends with former president Ford) and is the turning point for the show. Later he'll be hanging out with Hollywood stars, escaping jail at the Superbowl and trying his luck at grifting.

What happened to Homer in this episode is going to be ignored for some time, but it will be this side of his character that begins to take centerstage in seasons 9-10 before eventually making the show unwatchable from season 11-12 onwards. This episode is the one that can be said to have fundamentally changes the show by permanently undermine the character of its lead protagonist and marks the start of the gradual decline into Zombie Simpsons.

Also there's a pointless B-Story with absolutely no relevance to the episode as Bart takes over a factory. This too is something that will be done in Zombie Simpsons a lot.

The Simpsons was the best show on TV for ten years but after that the changes made in this episode became commonplace and redefined what The Simpsons really was. The episode's legacy only permits me to give this 1/10 as my final rating for it.

ubertag will definitely smash this, but I feel as someone who has the first ten seasons as his favorite cartoon of all time, that there's some truth to it, as harsh as he put it.

 

[HStallion]

So when are they going to bring back characters voiced by deceased voice actors? I can't wait to see Troy McClure doing youtube videos and Lionel Huts in their Better Caul Saul spoof.

 

[Joni]

So when are they going to bring back characters voiced by deceased voice actors? I can't wait to see Troy McClure doing youtube videos and Lionel Huts in their Better Caul Saul spoof.

I think they will remain retired. He was quite special and his death very public. They would anger so many people by bringing them back.

 

[RangerX]

Just a reminder: there are far far more bad and terrible episodes of The Simpsons than there are good ones.

This the saddest fact of modern pop culture.

 

[kess]

Discussions on this always remind me of what Bill Oakley, executive producer of seasons 7 and 8 alongside Josh Weinstein, wrote to Dead Homer Society...

Dead Homer Society's response may mirror your own:

Personally, if you ask me? The episode is pure comical genius.

Reading Oakley's response actually makes me dislike the episode now, because it represents the kind of lazy, arch writing that defines bad formula humor, and it's an old formula. It's about as strictly satirical as an episode of Tom and Jerry.

 

[DeathyBoy]

His "son" already showed up to fuck over his episode. "He happened to like hookers" kinda destroys the "I work hard and get nothing while you do nothing and get everything" vibe if you're retconned as a guy who had a kid out of wed lock and didn't give a shit.

I think they will remain retired. He was quite special and his death very public. They would anger so many people by bringing them back.

Kids watching today have no attachment to Hartman at all. They'll absolutely bring those characters back if this show keeps going.

 

[Joni]

Kids watching today have no attachment to Hartman at all. They'll absolutely bring those characters back if this show keeps going.

Kids watching don't know him, almost every writer and lead on the show does.

 

[BigAT]

Well.....

That's not a question professor.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I remember watching some lousy episode with Frank Grimes's son about a decade ago. And here we go again.



You are distributing misinformation.

10 years from now there will be a treehouse of horror with Frank Grimes' son.

 

[Professor Renegade]

To quote Doug Walker: "Can The Simpsons end already so we can start talking about how great it was rather than how bad it's become?"

Bart actually explained why they're still on the air decades ago

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Too bad the writers of his episode couldn't return as well.

lmao yup

easily the best episode in the history of the series

 

[Reversed]

Zombie Simpsons returns a zombie character.

 

[Sou Da]

To me that Grimes episode only works as a series finale.

 

[Piers]

To me that Grimes episode only works as a series finale.

That's an interesting perspective, how come?

 

[Nairume]

I think they will remain retired. He was quite special and his death very public. They would anger so many people by bringing them back.

It's worth noting that Dan Castellaneta used to occasionally voice Troy McClure when they needed him for a bit part whenever Hartman wasn't available for recording. Despite there actually being precedent for McClure being voiced by somebody else, that they've still kept all of Hartman's characters retired says a lot about how sincere they are about not reversing course on it.

 

[Krejlooc]

I stand by what I said.

I stand right there beside you

 

[minor effort]

To me that Grimes episode only works as a series finale.

While I don't think the episode only works as a series finale, as I said in my previous post I thought it would have been a suitable series finale had the series ended in season 8.

I kind of like the series finales that deconstruct and tear down the protagonists. I liked the Seinfeld finale.

Even as everyone venerates season 5, that season of the Simpsons alone had Homer winning a Grammy and traveling to space. It's okay to mock the absurdity of that.

 

[Krejlooc]

It's worth noting that Dan Castellaneta used to occasionally voice Troy McClure when they needed him for a bit part whenever Hartman wasn't available for recording. Despite there actually being precedent for McClure being voiced by somebody else, that they've still kept all of Hartman's characters retired says a lot about how sincere they are about not reversing course on it.

Zapp brannigan was originally going to be voiced by hartman, and his voice is clearly trying to be hartman. If needed, billy west could voice those characters.

I hope he never does, though.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

While I don't think the episode only works as a series finale, as I said in my previous post I thought it would have been a suitable series finale had the series ended in season 8.

I kind of like the series finales that deconstruct and tear down the protagonists. I liked the Seinfeld finale.

Even as everyone venerates season 5, that season of the Simpsons alone had Homer winning a Grammy and traveling to space. It's okay to mock the absurdity of that.

"Hey, don't throw your GARBAGE down here."

 

[Krejlooc]

While I don't think the episode only works as a series finale, as I said in my previous post I thought it would have been a suitable series finale had the series ended in season 8.

I kind of like the series finales that deconstruct and tear down the protagonists. I liked the Seinfeld finale.

Even as everyone venerates season 5, that season of the Simpsons alone had Homer winning a Grammy and traveling to space. It's okay to mock the absurdity of that.

Thing is, those very episodes mock the absurdity of those situations, with much more cleverness than the grimes episode (like when the point out all the plot holes associated with the emmy episode, capped with barts quip, "since when could you write a song?"). My main complaint about the grimes episode is the same problem I have with "angry" youtube reviewers - I dont find rage humor funny. It feels low brow and lazy to me. Rage humor never makes me laugh. And much of the frank grimes episode is rage humor.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Thing is, those very episodes mock the absurdity of those situations, with much more cleverness than the grimes episode. My main complaint about the grimes episode is the same problem I have with "angry" youtube reviewers - I dont find rage humor funny. It feels low brow and lazy to me. Rage humor never makes me laugh. And much of the frank grimes episode is rage humor.

Really?

I mean, Grimey (as he liked to be called) gets mad, but the performance is so hilarious I feel like it's just "humor".

"But don't worry about me, I'm Homer Si--"
BZZZZZK

That's not rage humor that's just fucking funny man

 

[Krejlooc]

Really?

I mean, Grimey (as he liked to be called) gets mad, but the performance is so hilarious I feel like it's just "humor".

"But don't worry about me, I'm Homer Si--"
BZZZZZK

That's not rage humor that's just fucking funny man

You mean the over the top gag about the man electrocuting himself to death because he was raging isnt rage humor?

Oooo...k....

 

[StayDead]

Because psychiatrist never actually died

That's weird, because in one of the "encyclopedia" style books of the 90s simpsons it listed him as one of the dead characters.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

You mean the over the top gag about the man electrocuting himself to death because he was raging isnt rage humor?

Oooo...k....

ok what is rage humor then and how is it not just...humor?

people getting outwardly angry has been a keystone of humor since like laurel and fucking hardy what is happening

 

[minor effort]

Thing is, those very episodes mock the absurdity of those situations, with much more cleverness than the grimes episode (like when the point out all the plot holes associated with the emmy episode, capped with barts quip, "since when could you write a song?"). My main complaint about the grimes episode is the same problem I have with "angry" youtube reviewers - I dont find rage humor funny. It feels low brow and lazy to me. Rage humor never makes me laugh. And much of the frank grimes episode is rage humor.

I don't go in for such kinds of humor either, but the episode simply never struck me as "rage humor". Yes, it examines the growing frustration of having to work with a Homer Simpson, but I like the way it pushes back with Homer's vulnerability at being rejected by his new coworker and overcompensating to impress him. Granted, the episode tries to cover a lot of ground in the eight years of Simpsons up until then, so stuff like Homer's Barbershop Quartet could spend more time on that individual story.

But I'm not sure how Frank Grimes's breakdown monologue squares with youtube videos about some dude mad about a videogame. By that point in the episode it feels like the groundwork was there.

Aside from the merit of the episode's premise, I think it's one of the outright funniest episodes of the entire series.

Homer: Can I have this one?
Grimes: No.
Homer: Can [thinks] Lenny have it?
Grimes: No.

 

[Sou Da]

You mean the over the top gag about the man electrocuting himself to death because he was raging isnt rage humor?

Oooo...k....

I feel the rage humor here works, he's mad at a man who does nothing but fall into success.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I don't go in for such kinds of humor either, but the episode simply never struck me as "rage humor". Yes, it examines the growing frustration of having to work with a Homer Simpson, but I like the way it pushes back with Homer's vulnerability at being rejected by his new coworker and overcompensating to impress him. Granted, the episode tries to cover a lot of ground in the eight years of Simpsons up until then, so stuff like Homer's Barbershop Quartet could spend more time on that individual story.

But I'm not sure how Frank Grimes's breakdown monologue squares with youtube videos about some dude mad about a videogame. By that point in the episode it feels like the groundwork was there.

Aside from the merit of the episode's premise, I think it's one of the outright funniest episodes of the entire series.

Homer: Can I have this one?
Grimes: No.
Homer: Can [thinks] Lenny have it?
Grimes: No.

Grimes: God, he eats like a pig!
Lenny: I dunno. Pigs tend to chew. I'd say he eats more like a duck.

This episode is a fucking masterpiece.

 

[LyleLanley]

I stand right there beside you

I respect you.

 

[vypek]

That's weird, because in one of the "encyclopedia" style books of the 90s simpsons it listed him as one of the dead characters.

Marvin Monroe? They hinted that he was dead a few times in the show. He comes back in an episode and just says he had been very sick. I think that was actually referencing the voice actor having a tough time doing the voice because it hurt his throat but I might be remembering a different cartoon.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

To get most specific, this exchange, where Grimsey (as he liked to be called), is clearly upset, but I'm sure you can hear every word in your head as it was performed by Azaria since you've seen it as many times as I have, so think about the performance here, especially the "Are you kidding?" It's one of the most human and humane voice performances in the history of the series. This is incontrovertible.

Grimes: Can you believe that guy? He's in his office making a pathetic attempt to look professional.
Carl: Hey, what do you got against Homer, anyway?
Grimes: Are you kidding? Does this whole plant have some disease where you can't see that he's an idiot? Look here. [points out a chart tacked to the bulletin board] Accidents have doubled every year since he became safety inspector, and, and meltdowns have tripled. Has he been fired? No. Has he been disciplined? No, no.
Lenny: Eh, everybody makes mistakes. That's why they put erasers on pencils.
Carl: Yeah, Homer's okay. Give him a break.
Grimes: No! Homer is not okay. And I want everyone in this plant to realize it. I would die a happy man if I could prove to you that Homer Simpson has the intelligence of a 6-year-old.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Except he isn't really is he. He's returning for a short snippet of a Treehouse Horror section.

At this point it's just like a kind of familiar soap opera that has its audience and exists. Exists forever. Exists until Dan Castalanetta's frozen head grows mould.

 

[minor effort]

To get most specific, this exchange, where Grimsey (as he liked to be called), is clearly upset, but I'm sure you can hear every word in your head as it was performed by Azaria since you've seen it as many times as I have, so think about the performance here, especially the "Are you kidding?" It's one of the most human and humane voice performances in the history of the series. This is incontrovertible.

Grimes: Can you believe that guy? He's in his office making a pathetic attempt to look professional.
Carl: Hey, what do you got against Homer, anyway?
Grimes: Are you kidding? Does this whole plant have some disease where you can't see that he's an idiot? Look here. [points out a chart tacked to the bulletin board] Accidents have doubled every year since he became safety inspector, and, and meltdowns have tripled. Has he been fired? No. Has he been disciplined? No, no.
Lenny: Eh, everybody makes mistakes. That's why they put erasers on pencils.
Carl: Yeah, Homer's okay. Give him a break.
Grimes: No! Homer is not okay. And I want everyone in this plant to realize it. I would die a happy man if I could prove to you that Homer Simpson has the intelligence of a 6-year-old.

Agreed. Hank Azaria's performance doesn't get enough credit. It's among one of the best voice acting works in the series. Had they chosen someone else to voice Frank Grimes or had they given it a routine performance, the episode might not have had nearly the same impact.

 

[Dishwalla]

Agreed. Hank Azaria's performance doesn't get enough credit. It's among one of the best voice acting works in the series. Had they chosen someone else to voice Frank Grimes or had they given it a routine performance, the episode might not have had nearly the same impact.

They had tried to get a guest star(William H. Macy I think?) to voice him, but were refused, so Grimes' voice is an emulation of that.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Agreed. Hank Azaria's performance doesn't get enough credit. It's among one of the best voice acting works in the series. Had they chosen someone else to voice Frank Grimes or had they given it a routine performance, the episode might not have had nearly the same impact.

"You're a fraud, a total fraud." is fucking legitimately moving.

 

[Dishwalla]

Also "Homer's Enemy" is fine, but they rerun it too much on FXX. How about some new oldies, jerks?

 

[minor effort]

Also "Homer's Enemy" is fine, but they rerun it too much on FXX. How about some new oldies, jerks?

Stop watching episodes on FFX. They're edited to pieces.

They had tried to get a guest star(William H. Macy I think?) to voice him, but were refused, so Grimes' voice is an emulation of that.

Yeah, I've read that too, but in the end I'm glad Hank Azaria did it over William H. Macy or another guest actor. It was a role that needed to be done by somebody with a close association to the show.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

So we've confirmed that it's immaculately written and performed, but why stop there when you've got the single best timed and animated gag in the history of the series, if not all of television itself

 

[PSqueak]

Halloween ep? That's okay then.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

omfg that's from you only move twice boy is my face red

 

[minor effort]

So we've confirmed that it's immaculately written and performed, but why stop there when you've got the single best timed and animated gag in the history of the series, if not all of television itself

 

[minor effort]

omfg that's from you only move twice boy is my face red

Stop laughing, you imbicile.