Nah, it was Oklahoma.
Colorado was involved in some bullshit regarding AP history early this year though.
Nah, it was Oklahoma.
I just feel like it's past what is necessary and effective. That's what I mean by "too far."
I'll answer both points in one, since they're related.
At that point, you're really just punishing the ones unlucky enough to get caught on camera (with expulsion). This tends not to stop racism, but to make it more hidden. It's the hidden racism that goes towards the institutionalization of racism, which in turn allows their actions to affect other people.
Didn't answer my question.
Do you think expelling them from school would wreck their lives.
If you don't think it would, why are you so strongly arguing against expelling them.
I'm not willing to throw kids out of school and potentially make it harder for them to even get back in to school (you think some other school is just going to let them attend once they receive their records from OU?) because they used the N word or sang some stupid racist frat song on a private hired bus.
Still isn't answering the question.
Do you think their being expelled from school will wreck their lives.
(and yes, some other school will let them attend)
I've already answered it, twice.
Getting kicked out won't ruin their lives.
Getting kicked out won't ruin their lives.
Getting kicked out in the first place is very likely illegal, though. Illegal probably isn't the right word as it isn't a criminal action. But civilly? Probably won't stand up on appeal. So that's why some people are pointing out the realities of the law.
Ah yeah that is possible. A lot of applications have sections that ask you to declare any disciplinary or legal actions against them.You won't get admission in any respectable university after that.
As much as I hate to say this but I think the accurate wording would be... "Getting kicked out in the first place very likely violates their civil rights."Getting kicked out in the first place is very likely illegal, though. Illegal probably isn't the right word as it isn't a criminal action.
Yes of course. That's the phrase.As much as I hate to say this but I think the accurate wording would be... "Getting kicked out in the first place very likely violates their civil rights."
Ugh.
So apparently a month ago someone on reddit claims that a Texas chapter of SAE also sings this song.
http://i.reddit.com/r/Austin/commen...texas_fraternity_pledge_rules/cogo0pq.compact
Yup sounds like this isn't an isolated incident, the songs seems pretty known.
They're probably free speech heroes to some people already.
Well that's vandalism and has been pretty well established it is legally not ok. The student also seems to have been specifically targeted.
That seems like a different situation than this one.
Did you even read the post you quoted? I clearly said that the goal wasn't to stop racism. Also whether you kick them out or not institutionalized racism will still persist. So it's better to at least weed out a few of the purpetrators than none at all. And you do realize that your basically insinuating that we shouldn't punish them at all for fear of making racism more covert, which is insane.
Free speech sucks, doesn't it? That's the law, though. No matter how objectionable.Yea, that's a shame.
how is it different?
I am genuinely curious?
it is okay to be racist as long as you don't outwardly target one or a group of individuals hat you can put an actual face to?
So apparently a month ago someone on reddit claims that a Texas chapter of SAE also sings this song.
http://i.reddit.com/r/Austin/commen...texas_fraternity_pledge_rules/cogo0pq.compact
Yup sounds like this isn't an isolated incident, the songs seems pretty known.
Basically. Racism isn't illegal. Will private entities and individual people ostracize racists? Yeah. But public entities and organizations are bound by law and that speech must be protected.how is it different?
I am genuinely curious?
it is okay to be racist as long as you don't outwardly target one or a group of individuals that you can put an actual face to?
these kids will go on to fill leadership roles due to their parents wealth. If they are not reprimanded now their impact will be much greater ten years from now when they have economic, social, and political influence over their communities.
So apparently a month ago someone on reddit claims that a Texas chapter of SAE also sings this song.
http://i.reddit.com/r/Austin/commen...texas_fraternity_pledge_rules/cogo0pq.compact
Yup sounds like this isn't an isolated incident, the songs seems pretty known.
I'd love to respond to all of you in full, but it would take too long. Instead, I'll respond to the general ideas.
1) There are other ways to show that it isn't tolerable. For example, shutting down the chapter. Punishing each individual that was in the chapter or only those caught on camera is going too far. Now it's unnecessary retribution given to those who got caught up in mob mentality... in a setting that pretty much encourages that mentality.
Shutting down the chapter sends a message and makes it difficult for the negative aspects of that mentality to continue within that setting. This is appropriate punishment. It takes care of everything that is necessary without going over.
2) None of the excess solutions actually attack the core of racism in any respect. Rather, it only encourages people to hide their racism, and only express it in, say, voting, or hiring, or redistricting. All incredibly important parts of institutionalized racism.
Of course not. Greek Society on campuses are still pretty much segregated. Rarely do you have white guys pledging black organizations or vice-versa.
What they are saying is that if you actually have a target for your speech, then it becomes intimidation or menacing and can be construed as making a threat upon that person. Singing an old racist frat song in the company of your fratbros doesn't rise to that particular level.
Yes, it does
I'm pretty sure the target is quite clear and it is anyone who is black
How in this day and age of smart phones people are still so open and retarded about raceiest hate speech.
I just looked up a list of notable Sigma Alpha Epsilon members on wiki. Damn.
Lots of power here. No wonder they acted so quickly.
How in this day and age of smart phones people are still so open and retarded about raciest hate speech.
Do you really think something like this is "typical" out of the hundreds of organizations, thousands of chapters, at thousands of campuses, with tens of thousands of members active and millions of alumni members?so frats being frats then? this is representative of typical greek life culture imo.
Do you really think something like this is "typical" out of the hundreds of organizations, thousands of chapters, at thousands of campuses, with tens of thousands of members active and millions of alumni members?
Do you really think something like this is "typical" out of the hundreds of organizations, thousands of chapters, at thousands of campuses, with tens of thousands of members active and millions of alumni members?
I'll be one to says yes. I've never actually heard the word "nigger" said by white people outside of those people I met in frats.
Of course they didn't use it to mean "black people" they used it to mean "lazy." As in, stop being such a nigger and wake up. I guess they weren't being racist in that regard.
Do you really think something like this is "typical" out of the hundreds of organizations, thousands of chapters, at thousands of campuses, with tens of thousands of members active and millions of alumni members?
Of course they didn't use it to mean "black people" they used it to mean "lazy." As in, stop being such a nigger and wake up. I guess they weren't being racist in that regard.
Yeah, something tells me that joking about hanging someone on a tree isn't exactly the same thing as actually wanting to do it.
You have people in this thread who want to wreck these kids lives because they said some racist shit at age 19? 20? And as if something like this is really indicative of the kind of person you will end up being. People mature, people change.
I am all for punishing behavior like this if it crosses into the realm of being physical or menacing. This? This is not something that I'm going to kick some kid out of school for, or to make it impossible for him to get into school anywhere else.
Their frat should and did get suspended form campus, and it shouldn't come back for a long long time.
Even if you did want to punish these kids on an individual level, how would you even go about identifying them other than the one or two prominently featured in the video? Kick them all out?
Ok I got it now.
White College students = Kids that are too young to be held responsible for their actions!
Teenage Black Kids = Dangerous adults that police officers should be afraid of.
Yeah, something tells me that joking about hanging someone on a tree isn't exactly the same thing as actually wanting to do it.
You have people in this thread who want to wreck these kids lives because they said some racist shit at age 19? 20? And as if something like this is really indicative of the kind of person you will end up being. People mature, people change.
I am all for punishing behavior like this if it crosses into the realm of being physical or menacing. This? This is not something that I'm going to kick some kid out of school for, or to make it impossible for him to get into school anywhere else.
Their frat should and did get suspended form campus, and it shouldn't come back for a long long time.
Even if you did want to punish these kids on an individual level, how would you even go about identifying them other than the one or two prominently featured in the video? Kick them all out?
I am all for punishing behavior like this if it crosses into the realm of being physical or menacing. This? This is not something that I'm going to kick some kid out of school for, or to make it impossible for him to get into school anywhere else.
Their frat should and did get suspended form campus, and it shouldn't come back for a long long time.
Even if you did want to punish these kids on an individual level, how would you even go about identifying them other than the one or two prominently featured in the video? Kick them all out?
Their whole initiation process already says everything about how moronic the whole Greek culture is.Do you really think something like this is "typical" out of the hundreds of organizations, thousands of chapters, at thousands of campuses, with tens of thousands of members active and millions of alumni members?
should all be expelled, no exceptions
Am I to understand you haven't done anything stupid as a teenager that you're ashamed of? Ever?
Of course they'll regret being caught, but there's a good chance they'll regret saying racists thing in the first. I'd rather these dumbasses be rehabilitated and learn from their mistakes than be punished and have nothing come of it.