Bry0
Member
It is shockingly juvenile but I am entertained by it nonetheless. Makes me feel like I’m 12 again arguing about Xbox vs ps2
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From "Phil Should be fired" to "Jim should be fired" in one week
- Thread starter Ozrimandias
- Start date
poodaddy
Member
I see your point, but I never did argue about this kind of stuff. Maybe I was an overly fortunate child, and I certainly realize that not everyone grew up like this and trust me I am thankful for it, but despite the fact that I grew up very poor, my mother worked long hours and always made sure that my brother and I had all the main game consoles every gen, and we even had a gaming PC. We were big into comics, music, and games growing up, and my mother didn't believe one was better than the other except for the fact that she loved, and still does love, Nintendo, so she provided and we grew up with the mentality that it was weird for kids to argue over this stuff, but I understand as I've gotten older than people get rather tribal about arguing over things due to the fact that they may not have the means to get everything, and so they argue to strengthen their "tribe" and try to demean the other.....but it's so damn antiquated isn't it? I mean it always has been, and it always will be, but then again I think the fervor with which sports fans obsess over "their" teams that couldn't give a shit about their fans or their locales as they change teams on a dime for money is just as stupid as people obsessing over brands of any sort. It's just never made any sense to me, any of it, and I kinda just wish humans could move past it, but that gets into a bigger conversation about the psychology of tribalism in humans and eh.....no point to ruminating on it further. Ignore my ramblings, I'm just a guy that doesn't really get why people wanna argue about stuff that doesn't matter so much and belittle others over such superficial things.
Chronicle
Member
MasterCornholio
Member
If the decisions he makes ruins their numbers then I can see him getting the boot. It might be a long time before that happens though. Truly curious to see if PS5s sales will dwindle because of him.
Ansphn
Member
You old dirt you..Get in on the fun.
Flutta
Banned
ShadyAcshuns
Member
We don't need any of them. Bunch of old fucks...
Spirit Icana
Member
I'm more embarrassed that Japan seems like they're the only ones interested in making high end single player GAMES. The west has got this endless Triple-A Hollywood bug going. Spider-Man is such a fantastic IP to build a game around, and yet two decades have passed and only Treyarch with Spider-Man 2 from the PS2/GCN/Xbox era has bothered to really dig in to the possibilities of physics based web-slinging with the dual triggers. The game was clearly rushed and unpolished, but potential was written all over it. 
BbMajor7th
Member
Oh, to be so enlightened and above it all as thee... back in reality, there are some people who get a little too invested, sure, but there are a lot of people who are just passionate about the hobby, spend thousands of dollars with these companies each year and - wildly - have opinions on the wider goings-on of the industry.
You might even find some of them on enthusiast forums talking passionately about it. If you're far too lofty for all that, it might be worth avoiding them.
Zannegan
Member
Yes, people are too reactionary, but imagining that has a meaningful impact on (let alone is to blame for) the lack of innovation, passion, and commitment in the industry is silly.
These companies care about sales, not social media ravings, except insofar as those ravings have an impact on sales. Look at what's happening right now. People are full on "mad" at Jim today, but Sony's stock price went up. Do you think they're going to adjust their game production strategy one iota in response to the hyperbolic reactions? The worst possible outcome is that they might put a little more thought into their marketing. Did I say worst?
No, the reason we have these safe, boring games is the average AAA game's budget and scope. When you're talking about a game that will have a huge team (or teams) of developers working on it for half a decade or more, that's going to require a massive investment. OF course they play it safe if they want to see a return.
As for a lack of passion and commitment, just imagine being a small cog in the kind of machine that grinds out huge, safe games for years at a time. And remember, your art or programming or design will always be under criticism from number-crunchers whose only motivation is minimizing investment and maximizing return. Is it any wonder people in the business can't maintain their fire?
So, no, internet whiners and/or trolls are not the industry's main problem. They're not even top ten.
These companies care about sales, not social media ravings, except insofar as those ravings have an impact on sales. Look at what's happening right now. People are full on "mad" at Jim today, but Sony's stock price went up. Do you think they're going to adjust their game production strategy one iota in response to the hyperbolic reactions? The worst possible outcome is that they might put a little more thought into their marketing. Did I say worst?
No, the reason we have these safe, boring games is the average AAA game's budget and scope. When you're talking about a game that will have a huge team (or teams) of developers working on it for half a decade or more, that's going to require a massive investment. OF course they play it safe if they want to see a return.
As for a lack of passion and commitment, just imagine being a small cog in the kind of machine that grinds out huge, safe games for years at a time. And remember, your art or programming or design will always be under criticism from number-crunchers whose only motivation is minimizing investment and maximizing return. Is it any wonder people in the business can't maintain their fire?
So, no, internet whiners and/or trolls are not the industry's main problem. They're not even top ten.
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Barakov
Member
Phil Spencer and Jim Ryan are both rather talented at making both of their respective fanbases hate them.
I think people expect too much out of these showcases in general, though. It's weird for Sony because more than a few of them have been bangers. You'd think they'd have better stuff to show for the first showcase in a long while but it is what is. It kinda make you wonder if Sony held some stuff back for Summer Games Fest or Gamescommessenger_fearful.
I think people expect too much out of these showcases in general, though. It's weird for Sony because more than a few of them have been bangers. You'd think they'd have better stuff to show for the first showcase in a long while but it is what is. It kinda make you wonder if Sony held some stuff back for Summer Games Fest or Gamescom
messenger_fearful.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Nah, Phil's fanbase adores him in contrast. Almost a prophet type level of adoration.
Slicker than your average
Banned
On the 7th day God created Phil.
One of the ten commandments states ' obey thy phil Spencer '
sachos
Member
I've been thinking about this, i think its clear that the TRUE next gen games will either come by the last ~2 years of PS5 or be crossgen with the PS6, and the true PS6 games will be crossgen with the PS7, etc. We entered a constant cross gen period now.
People used to say how amazing the PS2 was and how games would keep coming for it after the PS3 was already around, but i think the PS4 beat it with AAA games coming to it even 10+ years after its release.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
balls of snow
Member
Its over folks. Once the switch 2 is revealed to be less powerful than a steamdeck we can bury videogames forever.
Raven117
Gold Member
Only a sith deals in absolutes.
fallingdove
Member
People aren’t thinking 4th dimensionally. 
Sony is still trying to close the book on ending Microsoft’s attempt to acquire Activision. How do they help their cause? They have a very public showing of a 3rd party-dependent game lineup.
Additionally, if you are Sony, you have to assume that Microsoft has been floundering and need to deliver big surprises. Why would Sony show their hand and highlight their most impressive titles only for them to be overshadowed by a massive Microsoft show a couple of weeks later? Sony wouldn’t. I think they are willing to temporarily disappoint their fans only to redeem themselves with some massive announcements later on in the year.
I just don’t buy that Sony don’t have some impressive stuff they are holding back.
Sony is still trying to close the book on ending Microsoft’s attempt to acquire Activision. How do they help their cause? They have a very public showing of a 3rd party-dependent game lineup.
Additionally, if you are Sony, you have to assume that Microsoft has been floundering and need to deliver big surprises. Why would Sony show their hand and highlight their most impressive titles only for them to be overshadowed by a massive Microsoft show a couple of weeks later? Sony wouldn’t. I think they are willing to temporarily disappoint their fans only to redeem themselves with some massive announcements later on in the year.
I just don’t buy that Sony don’t have some impressive stuff they are holding back.
Gaelyon
Member
The problem is YOU ? You bark in every thread but you're among the first to bought and play Sony 's FP games. You will buy each future Sony games and then bark loudly again. You accomplish nothing but noise.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I like that phil can talk publicly and also live on stage....seems to not be able to manage studios though. Unless something changes in two weeks.
...Jim must be drunk because he can't do one sentence without being cut and edited. Also, directors clearly telling him to try and emphasise words like excited looked so fake. Typical scouser, he will be drunk...
...basically, fire them all
...Jim must be drunk because he can't do one sentence without being cut and edited. Also, directors clearly telling him to try and emphasise words like excited looked so fake. Typical scouser, he will be drunk...
...basically, fire them all
Hawking Radiation
Member
Nah feck off.
No one is asking for Jim to be fired. We're just asking him to show us what they have cooking.
No one is asking for Jim to be fired. We're just asking him to show us what they have cooking.
{insert code here}
Member
When this is part of your showcase you've got problems.
No offense to the devs.
No offense to the devs.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Nice try but no. I skipped gt7, mlb the show and tlou part 1 last year. In fact i haven’t bought that trash last Gen mlb franchise since 2019. Bought tlou only when it came to PC 7 months later and only because everyone here kept telling me it looks next Gen when you actually play it on a good TV. Wrong . Forspoken, deathloop, ghostwire, destruction all stars, sackboy, godfall and other second and third party exclusives also skipped.
Stop making up shit about me.
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Gaelyon
Member
The only Sony games i've bought on PS5 are Demon's Souls and GOW:R. That's it. And that's the only thing that matter. Ranting on a boomer video games forum will not change Jim Ryan's strategy ever, only sales do.
Thick Thighs Save Lives
NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
Okay, I've asked ChatGPT 4 in the past to write an article on why Phil is unfit to lead Xbox. Let's see what ChatGPT 4 has to say about Jimbo in return
Yoboman
Member
Indies have been part of showcases for over a decade for all 3 hardware makers
They wouldn't keep doing it if it wasn't resonating with some people
GigaBowser
The bear of bad news
That was the best parts of the show
Drizzlehell
Banned
People are so quick to go for the nuclear option these days, lol.
"Oh noe, they didn't announce a game that I imagined is in production and had completely unwarranted expectations about... quick, grab your pitchforks, it's time to lynch Jim Ryan and napalm-bomb Sony's HQ!"
"Oh noe, they didn't announce a game that I imagined is in production and had completely unwarranted expectations about... quick, grab your pitchforks, it's time to lynch Jim Ryan and napalm-bomb Sony's HQ!"
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
And it will still be the GOAT system, with the best line up in the next 5 to 8 years I bet.
Rykan
Member
What a joke.
We're less than three years into this generation, and plenty of Sony's big titles are already on the platform: Horizon, God of War, Demon's Souls, Gran Turismo, The Last of Us, Ratchet & Clank, Spider-Man (soon two games), Sackboy, and Returnal. Which other first-party platform holder has ever launched this many quality titles in that time frame? Yeah, exactly.
Of course, there are going to be periods when there are fewer games to show as developers are working on new projects. That is to be expected, and it's completely normal.
You can complain that the show wasn't exciting, lacked announcements, or used CGI trailers. But your rant about “Fucking industry standards” and “Lazy devs” shows that you have never worked a day in this industry and just reeks of entitlement and ignorance.
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DEAD ORIGINAL
Member
COVID is to blame really
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Let’s all shut this forum down because none of us work in this industry and have any valid opinions or thoughts. You should start by deleting your account unless you are neil druckman himself. Actually no, are you myamoto? Nope? Then Your post reeks of ignorance. Just take your own advice and go live in a cave while the rest of us discuss movies, sports, politics, arts, games, economy without having directed The Godfather, without having won the Super Bowl, without ever sitting in the White House at president shooting missiles up a camels ass.
What a load of horseshit. You tell me I’m ignorant while you claim this is completely normal? Nearly all the games you listed are last Gen. Since when did first party manufacturers shipping last Gen games 3 years into the Gen become completely normal?
This is the first time we are seeing last Gen games look better than next Gen games. This is completely normal? Did you even n live through the ps1 to ps2 era? The ps3 and ps4 transitions? Did kzsf not look a Gen ahead of tlou? Did uncharted not completely destroy gow 2’s visuals? Are we seriously rewriting history and claiming that next Gen games have never had a graphical leap?!!
Sony skipped the last two e3s. 3 of the last 4. After attending every year for decades. That’s not normal. And when they finally do show up they show a half a dozen gaas games in cg format and you think that’s normal? The last time they showed this many cg trailers was literally 18 years ago in 2005.
Nothing about this is normal. Maybe instead of getting upset at people voicing their disapproval on a message board try to understand the history of PlayStation gaming, it’s not that long. You only have to go back 30 odd years. Your complete lack of industry knowledge is embarrassing.
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Guilty_AI
Gold Member
That industry is the one manufacturing the hype in the first place. Sony kept hyping up their hardware and secret sauce, going as far as saying it'd change game design itself. Three years into the gen and nothing worthy of that hype was shown. Games so far barely look better than last gen games, if not worse, and still play exactly like games from last gen.
I always called bullshit in a lot of their marketing, and honestly am the last person who would complain about graphics. I'm sure there are many here who are the same, satisfied with a machine that can do 60 fps and short loading times.
However, understand that Sony dug this hole themselves. They set up expectations sky high and aren't delivering it, they deserve all the flak they're getting.
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ManaByte
Gold Member
Honestly that looked fun.
Rykan
Member
Good job on the massive strawman you've pulled there.
You don't need to work in this industry to have "valid opinions or thoughts" on video games, but anyone who unironically claims that "devs are lazy" simply has no idea what they're talking about. Video game development is one of the most demanding careers in the tech industry. Working long hours, overtime, and dealing with crunch is both common and normal. You can have a valid opinion without making completely ignorant takes about other people's work ethics.
And you've concluded that the reason for that MUST be because devs are lazy? This isn't the first time I've seen you do it, either. I've lived through all of those console generations and several generations before that as well.
You're correct in your observation that graphical/fidelity jumps are significantly smaller between generations than they have been before. There are several reasons for this, and none of them have anything to do with "Lazy devs." The first one is the law of diminishing returns: It simply takes a lot more effort to establish a difference in graphical fidelity between a PS4 and PS5 game than it would for a PS1 and PS2 game or a PS2 and a PS3 game. This is why the jump from, for example, PS3 to PS4 is actually much smaller than it was from PS2 to PS3 or from the generation before that. I can guarantee that you'll experience the same thing when we get to the next generation.
But there's another reason for that: Hardware isn't the biggest constraint in a lot of cases; it's budget, resources, and time spent on development. Want to know why TLOU 2 still looks so much better than most games released today? It's not because game devs are "Lazy"; it's because not every game gets the resources or time that Naughty Dog gets to work on a single game for a single platform.
Budget is also the reason why we've had cross-gen games for so long. Budgets for games have skyrocketed.
Okay, so what's the issue here? Is it the show or Sony's output? I agree that the showcase was boring. However, Sony's output has been one of the best in the first two and a half years compared to any other single platform holder. I can't think of any other system that had better first-party support in that timeframe
I'm not upset at you voicing your disapproval. I'm annoyed with you blaming it on "lazy devs" and ignoring every other aspect of this industry.
Considering that statement comes from you, I'll wear it as a badge of honor.
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KXVXII9X
Member
Why is everything split into such binary terms like Xbox/PS fans, hardcore/casual, fanboy/hater? It is so tiring and does nothing for real discussion.
It is just a whole lot of projection going around and people making a bunch of assumptions about each other based on very little information.
I was very disappointed in the showcase. I'm a big PS fan. No, I didn't set myself to high expectations or buy into rumors. No, I don't have some stupid elaborate scheme as a Phil cohort.
I'm so over this shit.
RoboFu
One of the green rats
This is what the really problem is. The loudest gamers only care about graphics and bragging rights about specs.
Bonfires Down
Member
Gaf should be fired.