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Fuck the IRS

Ra\/en

Member
I'm surprised H&R Block didn't take care of the payments to the IRS and your State.

H&R block is rather useless when it comes to taxes to be honest. I have had plenty of issues with them. I used a real accountant this year, and had no issues, and had a pleasant experience. I didn't even pay that much more.

I think the real lesson here is that H&R block is terrible.
 

Cyan

Banned
Ok so first of all, just to be very clear, you never owed the IRS $764. You owed them $611, and you owed your state tax collecting agency $153. This is important because the IRS and state tax collectors are different entities and don't talk to each other. Sending the IRS $764 would not result in your state getting the correct amount of money, it would have meant you'd overpaid the IRS and your state collectors would be after you for the $153. This may be part of what's confusing anyone you might talk to at the IRS.

Money would not have been taken out of your account without your authorization. When you did your taxes, you probably input your bank information and ticked some box that directed each tax collecting agency to withdraw the money. Then you did it again via the IRS website. (As far as I know you have to input your SSN on the IRS site to make a payment, so there should at least be a clear trail on their end of what happened.)

Then you had your bank reverse the charge (for future reference, this should be a last resort) while the IRS had apparently figured out on their end that you'd overpaid and so issued a refund check (the physical check is probably because you hadn't given them authorization on your tax return to send electronic funds, since you were paying rather than getting a refund). This is why they came after you for $764: you overpaid by that amount, they were in the process of giving it back to you, then you pulled it back via your bank. From their perspective they had now double-paid you back.

Ok, you got the check from the IRS and handed it over to them, and were told it would take 60 days to clear up. It has not been 60 days yet. In the meantime their system still thinks they double-paid you back, and is dinging you for it. They are not trying to screw you. This is just bog-standard bureaucracy.

It's fine to be concerned about continuing to get notices, and you should maybe contact the IRS just to get reassurance that yes, once the thing with the check is cleared up the notices will stop coming. But what's actually happening here isn't the IRS fucking with you, it's that you made several mistakes, and the bureaucracy is slow in clearing them up.
 
Wouldn't you have to tell them about all your income for a proper income tax? They are just taking your wages but you may also have interest, stocks, etc. Also in the US, they withhold money throughout the year and then when you file you figure out what you owe. You then get a refund if your withholding was over the necessary amount or you pay if it was less. This means that Americans can adjust their withholding if they need the money throughout the year depending on the circumstances. Or they want to use it for something.

No idea how it works in the U.K.

Without going into too much detail, in the UK for the average person, all employment related taxes, bank interest, dividends and share sales will be handled automatically through a combination of the PAYE system (which deducts amounts from your salary, including in some cases amounts you owe for non-employment income sources) and annual tax free allowances.

Only about 15% of people in the UK actually have to file a return.

However, that is not to say that the system in the UK is perfect or even good. It is extremely complex if you veer off the beaten path. I believe it is the second largest tax code in terms of volume of legislation in the world. It's all good for me though as someone who makes a living giving tax advice.
 

Lyrian

Member
Ok so first of all, just to be very clear, you never owed the IRS $764. You owed them $611, and you owed your state tax collecting agency $153. This is important because the IRS and state tax collectors are different entities and don't talk to each other. Sending the IRS $764 would not result in your state getting the correct amount of money, it would have meant you'd overpaid the IRS and your state collectors would be after you for the $153. This may be part of what's confusing anyone you might talk to at the IRS.

Money would not have been taken out of your account without your authorization. When you did your taxes, you probably input your bank information and ticked some box that directed each tax collecting agency to withdraw the money. Then you did it again via the IRS website. (As far as I know you have to input your SSN on the IRS site to make a payment, so there should at least be a clear trail on their end of what happened.)

Then you had your bank reverse the charge (for future reference, this should be a last resort) while the IRS had apparently figured out on their end that you'd overpaid and so issued a refund check (the physical check is probably because you hadn't given them authorization on your tax return to send electronic funds, since you were paying rather than getting a refund). This is why they came after you for $764: you overpaid by that amount, they were in the process of giving it back to you, then you pulled it back via your bank. From their perspective they had now double-paid you back.

Ok, you got the check from the IRS and handed it over to them, and were told it would take 60 days to clear up. It has not been 60 days yet. In the meantime their system still thinks they double-paid you back, and is dinging you for it. They are not trying to screw you. This is just bog-standard bureaucracy.

It's fine to be concerned about continuing to get notices, and you should maybe contact the IRS just to get reassurance that yes, once the thing with the check is cleared up the notices will stop coming. But what's actually happening here isn't the IRS fucking with you, it's that you made several mistakes, and the bureaucracy is slow in clearing them up.

As someone who has worked for one of these groups of taxing entities and is currently working for the other group, I would agree with the order of events presented by Cyan as the mostly scenario on how these events have played out for OP.
 

mashoutposse

Ante Up
Ok so first of all, just to be very clear, you never owed the IRS $764. You owed them $611, and you owed your state tax collecting agency $153. This is important because the IRS and state tax collectors are different entities and don't talk to each other. Sending the IRS $764 would not result in your state getting the correct amount of money, it would have meant you'd overpaid the IRS and your state collectors would be after you for the $153. This may be part of what's confusing anyone you might talk to at the IRS.

Money would not have been taken out of your account without your authorization. When you did your taxes, you probably input your bank information and ticked some box that directed each tax collecting agency to withdraw the money. Then you did it again via the IRS website. (As far as I know you have to input your SSN on the IRS site to make a payment, so there should at least be a clear trail on their end of what happened.)

Then you had your bank reverse the charge (for future reference, this should be a last resort) while the IRS had apparently figured out on their end that you'd overpaid and so issued a refund check (the physical check is probably because you hadn't given them authorization on your tax return to send electronic funds, since you were paying rather than getting a refund). This is why they came after you for $764: you overpaid by that amount, they were in the process of giving it back to you, then you pulled it back via your bank. From their perspective they had now double-paid you back.

Ok, you got the check from the IRS and handed it over to them, and were told it would take 60 days to clear up. It has not been 60 days yet. In the meantime their system still thinks they double-paid you back, and is dinging you for it. They are not trying to screw you. This is just bog-standard bureaucracy.

It's fine to be concerned about continuing to get notices, and you should maybe contact the IRS just to get reassurance that yes, once the thing with the check is cleared up the notices will stop coming. But what's actually happening here isn't the IRS fucking with you, it's that you made several mistakes, and the bureaucracy is slow in clearing them up.

Yes.
 

Linkura

Member
Ok so first of all, just to be very clear, you never owed the IRS $764. You owed them $611, and you owed your state tax collecting agency $153. This is important because the IRS and state tax collectors are different entities and don't talk to each other. Sending the IRS $764 would not result in your state getting the correct amount of money, it would have meant you'd overpaid the IRS and your state collectors would be after you for the $153. This may be part of what's confusing anyone you might talk to at the IRS.

Money would not have been taken out of your account without your authorization. When you did your taxes, you probably input your bank information and ticked some box that directed each tax collecting agency to withdraw the money. Then you did it again via the IRS website. (As far as I know you have to input your SSN on the IRS site to make a payment, so there should at least be a clear trail on their end of what happened.)

Then you had your bank reverse the charge (for future reference, this should be a last resort) while the IRS had apparently figured out on their end that you'd overpaid and so issued a refund check (the physical check is probably because you hadn't given them authorization on your tax return to send electronic funds, since you were paying rather than getting a refund). This is why they came after you for $764: you overpaid by that amount, they were in the process of giving it back to you, then you pulled it back via your bank. From their perspective they had now double-paid you back.

Ok, you got the check from the IRS and handed it over to them, and were told it would take 60 days to clear up. It has not been 60 days yet. In the meantime their system still thinks they double-paid you back, and is dinging you for it. They are not trying to screw you. This is just bog-standard bureaucracy.

It's fine to be concerned about continuing to get notices, and you should maybe contact the IRS just to get reassurance that yes, once the thing with the check is cleared up the notices will stop coming. But what's actually happening here isn't the IRS fucking with you, it's that you made several mistakes, and the bureaucracy is slow in clearing them up.
This sums it all up quite nicely. <3
 
Man sometimes I think understanding taxes is relatively simple, especially these days with all the free or low-cost prep software. Even stuff like capital gains or self-employment tax is pretty automated and straightforward.

But every one of these threads has people (ironically?) thrilled about the idea of thousands of dollars in "refunds", or being worried about owing a small amount at year's end, or not understanding marginal tax rates.

W-4 calculators are free! Make your life and your budgeting way easier by doing it once and forgetting about it until you get married or have kids.
 
H&R Block is terrible. Go to a real accountant, who might charge a bit more but will absolutely help you save money in the long term.
 
Do that shit yourself OP. I use turbotax myself. If I owe, I make the payments myself so these types of things don't happen.
 

ADS

Member
Why is this the IRS's fault? Why would you send them your state tax payment? Why did you contact your bank to "fix" it?

Why are people in this thread overpaying and then getting excited about a refund?

As others have said, threads like this make me think we need some required basic tax education classes in schools or something.
 

Air

Banned
The IRS website is different from your state website where you would pay state taxes to.

Are you on a 1099 by chance? If you're a w-2 employee you shouldn't have to pay the gov't directly

Edit:
I may be wrong. I'm a bit drunk
 

Lyrian

Member
Man sometimes I think understanding taxes is relatively simple, especially these days with all the free or low-cost prep software. Even stuff like capital gains or self-employment tax is pretty automated and straightforward.

But every one of these threads has people (ironically?) thrilled about the idea of thousands of dollars in "refunds", or being worried about owing a small amount at year's end, or not understanding marginal tax rates.

W-4 calculators are free! Make your life and your budgeting way easier by doing it once and forgetting about it until you get married or have kids.

Adding onto this.

Next time, instead of going to H&R Block, a little known secret is that the IRS will prepare and certify taxpayers' 1040s for FREE every year for people making ~50k per year or less through the Volunteer Income Tax Assistance (VITA) program.

It's practically impossible to be audited (except perhaps in the case of fraudulently given financial data by the taxpayer) when the IRS prepares your returns firsthand.
 

Linkura

Member
Why is this the IRS's fault? Why would you send them your state tax payment? Why did you contact your bank to "fix" it?

Why are people in this thread overpaying and then getting excited about a refund?

As others have said, threads like this make me think we need some required basic tax education classes in schools or something.

Overpaying can be a personal decision. I'm a CPA and I prefer to overpay. I don't invest money in anything other than retirement accounts at this point, which I max near the beginning of the year anyway, so I wouldn't get shit for "interest" getting the money throughout the year. And my paychecks are plenty with married withholding as single and with 0 exemptions. And I like seeing that big ass refund come through my bank account.
 

The JT

Neo Member
Wait you can pay at HR Block. I went earlier this year specially because I had to pay the IRS and they just gave me a voucher to mail. End up just going to my local IRS office and dropping off a check. Plus I got hustled, 50 bucks to file. SMDH.
 
Overpaying can be a personal decision. I'm a CPA and I prefer to overpay. I don't invest money in anything other than retirement accounts at this point, which I max near the beginning of the year anyway, so I wouldn't get shit for "interest" getting the money throughout the year. And my paychecks are plenty with married withholding as single and with 0 exemptions. And I like seeing that big ass refund come through my bank account.
With inflation being positive, you aren't even just letting them hang onto it for a while, you're actively throwing away your own earned income by doing this. I get the psychological boost of seeing the refund, but it's terrible for your long-term personal finances.
 
Maryland sent me a notice like that this year as well. Turns out, their way of taking quarterly payments is really strange, and what we paid for the year wasn't properly applied.

Took several weeks and multiple phonecalls to get it all cleared away.
 
Ok so first of all, just to be very clear, you never owed the IRS $764. You owed them $611, and you owed your state tax collecting agency $153. This is important because the IRS and state tax collectors are different entities and don't talk to each other. Sending the IRS $764 would not result in your state getting the correct amount of money, it would have meant you'd overpaid the IRS and your state collectors would be after you for the $153. This may be part of what's confusing anyone you might talk to at the IRS.

Money would not have been taken out of your account without your authorization. When you did your taxes, you probably input your bank information and ticked some box that directed each tax collecting agency to withdraw the money. Then you did it again via the IRS website. (As far as I know you have to input your SSN on the IRS site to make a payment, so there should at least be a clear trail on their end of what happened.)

Then you had your bank reverse the charge (for future reference, this should be a last resort) while the IRS had apparently figured out on their end that you'd overpaid and so issued a refund check (the physical check is probably because you hadn't given them authorization on your tax return to send electronic funds, since you were paying rather than getting a refund). This is why they came after you for $764: you overpaid by that amount, they were in the process of giving it back to you, then you pulled it back via your bank. From their perspective they had now double-paid you back.

Ok, you got the check from the IRS and handed it over to them, and were told it would take 60 days to clear up. It has not been 60 days yet. In the meantime their system still thinks they double-paid you back, and is dinging you for it. They are not trying to screw you. This is just bog-standard bureaucracy.

It's fine to be concerned about continuing to get notices, and you should maybe contact the IRS just to get reassurance that yes, once the thing with the check is cleared up the notices will stop coming. But what's actually happening here isn't the IRS fucking with you, it's that you made several mistakes, and the bureaucracy is slow in clearing them up.

One thing I want to stress again is that you don't go immediately to your bank to have them do a reverse charge or chargeback. I have no idea why this idea has picked up steam on the internet, but this is not how it should ever be done.
 

Linkura

Member
With inflation being positive, you aren't even just letting them hang onto it for a while, you're actively throwing away your own earned income by doing this. I get the psychological boost of seeing the refund, but it's terrible for your long-term personal finances.

Inflation is ~2%. With a ~$3000 refund last year, that's ~$60 a year we're talking about that I'm "throwing away." Come on son.

Edit: Also, we donate a fair amount to charity throughout the year, and we're not ever sure at the beginning of the year how much we're going to donate. So we like to be conservative in our withholdings for that reason as well.
 

Ron Mexico

Member
One thing I want to stress again is that you don't go immediately to your bank to have them do a reverse charge or chargeback. I have no idea why this idea has picked up steam on the internet, but this is not how it should ever be done.

You have no idea how much we on the banking side see this. A banker worth their salts would have pulled it all apart much like Cyan did above.
 

robochimp

Member
Don't know why anyone ever sets it to more than 1, at most.

Because they have more complex tax situations, kids, home ownership, and so on.

If I had mine at 1 I'd be getting a giant refund which means I'd be missing out on money throughout the year
 
Because they have more complex tax situations, kids, home ownership, and so on.

If I had mine at 1 I'd be getting a giant refund which means I'd be missing out on money throughout the year
I'm married, have two kids, and own a home and I only claim 1.

I gotn $11k back taking into account the EIC and child credits.
 

The Llama

Member
I'll never understand why people are so concerned with potentially giving the government what is essentially a few hundred dollar interest free loan...

(if you're a millionaire and potentially giving the government thousands of dollars extra, that's one thing...but you're also rich at that point so I don't really have any sympathy)
 
I read the thread title and thought "this is gonna be the Off-Topic version of 'I got banned on Xbox Live for NO REASON,' isn't it?"

I was not disappointed.
 
You have no idea how much we on the banking side see this. A banker worth their salts would have pulled it all apart much like Cyan did above.

It's just bizarre. I have no idea how it started, or why it seems to circle around in these types of communities, but it's a terrible practice. And then people get so upset. People need to learn it's not a substitute for getting a refund for something you mistakenly or regret buying, nor is it an excuse to put in minimal effort to go through the normal proper channels in trying to get your money back (when it's actually deserved). I mean, you see it on the gaming side from time to time where people forgot to remove their credit card and bought a year of PSN or XBL and then freak out after they get the bank to do a chargeback and their service is cancelled. Like, no shit?

Only time in my life I had to do a chargeback is because I was on a foreign trip in Central America and a restaurant rang my card up several times for one meal.
 

mozfan12

Banned
I would have bugged the shit out of H&R first before going to IRS, you pay them to avoid these types of situations.
 

robochimp

Member
I'm married, have two kids, and own a home and I only claim 1.

I gotn $11k back taking into account the EIC and child credits.

That refund would be 22% of your income going by EIC limits. I couldn't get by tying up that much income with the IRS.

But to each their own. I run my taxes so that I owe a small amount at tax time.
 

Amagon

Member
Funny H&R Block getting mentioned. I filed my taxes for many years using the H&R Block tax software, no issues whatsoever til this year. After filing my taxes, I get another W-2 from a previous job that I quit at the end of the year in 2015 and a form for winning a grand on a lottery ticket. Being that a 1040X form has to be filed via paper, I had no idea on going about and went to my local H&R Block.

They filed the form and I had to pay the state and federal along with copies of the W2s. A few weeks back, I get a letter from the state that they needed copies of my W2s again. So I mailed that out and just today, a letter from the IRS asking for the same thing. Now, this is starting to get annoying since I mailed out (but made copies) of the last of my W2s and now have to go back to H&R Block tomorrow to clear out this bs that I want to leave behind already.
 

Pagusas

Elden Member
I'm married, have two kids, and own a home and I only claim 1.

I gotn $11k back taking into account the EIC and child credits.

Would rather change my deductions and get that 11k throughout the year in my paycheck then as a single refund. Could do more things with it through the year and increase its worth
 

Nipo

Member
Let me guess. op got married, has a working spouse, and didn't update hosanna w4 for additional withholding. Happens to about half the newly weds in my office.
 
Alright I got a lot of responses and thank you to everyone who had to put themselves through reading all that rubble I wrote out. So here's my takeaway:

-My first ignorant move was hitting up my bank first. My mind was totally vile when I wrote the OP because it was written right after I got the last letter so perhaps it wasn't clear that this was the first time I ever had to do something like this; not that that is an excuse but with no prior experience and looking at my bank account, my first instinct was to tell my bank. I didn't know H&R Block could have helped me out further, and the IRS seemed fucking impossible to get a hold of.

-Even before doing that, I should not have made a lump sum payment at irs.gov; but I was following the directions that an H&R Block agent gave me over the phone since, again, I've never had to do this before and I even said that to him. I was surprised I even owed and I just wanted to get that shit over with as soon as possible.

-However...to those people saying things like "this was 100% not the IRS's fault, it's all YOUR fault" - fuck that shit. They got a tired, slow ass system and that is to blame in this as well.

A. I make a lump sum payment to irs.gov

B. The IRS processes that payment in a few days and takes that amount from me, I notice it gone from my bank account

C. Within a few days timeframe I see that essentially I was charged twice, and hit up my bank (which is on me) and thy reverse the lump sum after explaining my situation to her

D. The IRS determines that A was a wrongful payment and sends me a refund check in the mail

E. Because of my actions in C, the IRS sends me a letter saying my payment of $764 did not process and needs to be handled immediately

Now here's the fuckin thing about E; it took them too goddamn long to figure out that I was not supposed to give them $764 in the first place. Whether it was man or machine, something, someone should have been like, "hey wait a minute, this guy does not owe us $764, so let's not approve this payment" - especially considering that in C, the IRS did also take $611 and whatever system they have man/machine could've or should've somehow found that the $764 payment was wrong, since that came first and I did that one myself.

E should have never happened because the IRS should have figured out on their own that I did not owe them $764 and whatever my bank did, they clearly did not talk to a person at the IRS otherwise some of this communication would not have been forsaken

I did concede in the OP that it was a rookie mistake. And I am paying for it literally and figuratively but I don't deserve them to be coming after me this much about it.
 

Quixzlizx

Member
That's how the federal bureaucracy is. One year I was screwed because NY had a new law making it required to e-file, but the date on my social security card was wrong, so my e-files kept getting rejected.

It took like six months and several visits to the Social Security Administration until I was able to get it sorted. I was making jokes that they were turning me into a Tea Party activist.
 

ReaperXL7

Member
People hate the IRS but many of people's issues with the IRS is because they are underfunded and understaffed by a pretty solid margin, the government doesn't really give them the tools or funding to improve their performance.

I was watching a documentary about the issues the department faces on a regular basis and I honestly don't know how many people can work for the IRS and not face severe mental health issues.
 
To add to H&R Block shit:

I gave them my taxes documents, and they took a pre-charge of $500 for the job. This was in April. It's past the June 15 deadline for the IRS and THEY STILL HAVE NOT FILED MY TAXES.

FUCK H&R BLOCK.
 
I still don't understand the time frame exactly. How long from when you payed the IRS the wrong amount until you went to the bank for a charge back and then how long until you got a letter saying what you owe?
 

Ron Mexico

Member
It's just bizarre. I have no idea how it started, or why it seems to circle around in these types of communities, but it's a terrible practice. And then people get so upset. People need to learn it's not a substitute for getting a refund for something you mistakenly or regret buying, nor is it an excuse to put in minimal effort to go through the normal proper channels in trying to get your money back (when it's actually deserved). I mean, you see it on the gaming side from time to time where people forgot to remove their credit card and bought a year of PSN or XBL and then freak out after they get the bank to do a chargeback and their service is cancelled. Like, no shit?

Only time in my life I had to do a chargeback is because I was on a foreign trip in Central America and a restaurant rang my card up several times for one meal.

So I've kicked around doing a Banking OT for ages as a compliment to the Home Buying, Credit Card, Retirement etc OTs. This would definite be amongst the parts to cover.

There are plenty of times to file ACH or debit card disputes, such as automatic withdrawals after you've revoked authorization. Or your card being charged multiple times for the same purchase. Or in the event that the card is compromised. That's all contextual though.
 
time frame is like after making the lump sum payment, 3 or 4 days later I see that the payments are taken but then a week or two later I get a letter in the mail from them saying the $764 processing failed and about a week or less after that I get the $764 refund check

edit: @brianmcdoogle
 
Ok so first of all, just to be very clear, you never owed the IRS $764. You owed them $611, and you owed your state tax collecting agency $153. This is important because the IRS and state tax collectors are different entities and don't talk to each other. Sending the IRS $764 would not result in your state getting the correct amount of money, it would have meant you'd overpaid the IRS and your state collectors would be after you for the $153. This may be part of what's confusing anyone you might talk to at the IRS.

Money would not have been taken out of your account without your authorization. When you did your taxes, you probably input your bank information and ticked some box that directed each tax collecting agency to withdraw the money. Then you did it again via the IRS website. (As far as I know you have to input your SSN on the IRS site to make a payment, so there should at least be a clear trail on their end of what happened.)

Then you had your bank reverse the charge (for future reference, this should be a last resort) while the IRS had apparently figured out on their end that you'd overpaid and so issued a refund check (the physical check is probably because you hadn't given them authorization on your tax return to send electronic funds, since you were paying rather than getting a refund). This is why they came after you for $764: you overpaid by that amount, they were in the process of giving it back to you, then you pulled it back via your bank. From their perspective they had now double-paid you back.

Ok, you got the check from the IRS and handed it over to them, and were told it would take 60 days to clear up. It has not been 60 days yet. In the meantime their system still thinks they double-paid you back, and is dinging you for it. They are not trying to screw you. This is just bog-standard bureaucracy.

It's fine to be concerned about continuing to get notices, and you should maybe contact the IRS just to get reassurance that yes, once the thing with the check is cleared up the notices will stop coming. But what's actually happening here isn't the IRS fucking with you, it's that you made several mistakes, and the bureaucracy is slow in clearing them up.
Thank you for typing this out yes I know the IRS wasn't intentionally trolling me but the bolded is a serious problem too.
 
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