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[demosthenes]

Tax and accounting companies in the US have and are lobbying very hard for this not to happen as it's a huge business for them. So far they are winning.

Realistically, this would work well in the US as well for the vast majority of people.

It will happen within the next 10 years. HR Block and Turbo Tax will lost a TON of business.

 

[crisdecuba]

Did OP get banned for this thread or something else?

I read through this thread hoping to get the answer to that same question.

 

[Syriel]

Calm down. They must have extended your tax return. It happens.

H&R still sucks, but I work at a tax firm and most of our clients are extended.

*edit: Wait just saw the past about June 15 deadline. Is this for a business that's not year end 12/31? Or are you an expat?

Extending a return is only cool if you don't have to pay. Otherwise, it's foolish (unless there is an estimated payment) as you'll incur interest fees.

I thought that's only if you make under a certain amount a year.

Nope. Free edition is free, but it is limited to 1040EZ or a basic 1040A. No real deductions and no handling of investments.

You're probably thinking of the IRS Free File program, which has limits up to $64,000/year of AGI (which is well above the median income of the US) and offers free tax prep. For that program, Intuit went cheap and caps participation at $33,000 AGI or EIC eligibility.

Stuff like this is why the whole "tax refund loan scheme" is super predatory and skeevy. You see all these tax prep firms heavily advertise to lower income brackets and charge excessive fees to skim money from those who need it most, when nearly anyone who pays for a refund loan could easily do their taxes for free and keep their entire refund.

I claim 0 but this thread is telling me I've been doing it wrong this whole time.

Only reason I don't have it set to 1 is cuz when I was younger I remember my brother owing money while claiming 1 so I decided to claim 0. I'd take less money per paycheck instead of potentially having to owe some

Better to owe a little, than to get a big refund.

Yeah I feel this way too... I'm always piqued about the "It's an interest free loan!" argument when for most people it's like $1,000 and if you had that $1,000 in a typical short-term savings account, you'd get like $0.85 in interest over the course of a year.

I'd much rather pay more up front than not have to worry about the burden of coming up with a large tax payment every Spring. I owe taxes now because of freelance income and it hangs over me... I don't do quarterly payments because the work comes and goes and is tough to estimate, so I basically just try to put away 40% of every check into savings and then whatever's left over in April is my "Return."

1) You can get up to 3-5% savings accounts with minimal effort. Granted, those are going to max out at around $5,000-$10,000/year at that rate, but it's better to have the $$$ earning interest than to just sit in government coffers.

2) Not doing quarterly is going to hurt you if you make enough to trigger an underpayment penalty.

Progressive income taxes are terrible. Even worse when they are combined with inconsistent itemized deductions and legislation "loopholes".

Straight consumption tax on every transaction. Make it legally required to be itemizied on the receipt so we don't get prices quoted inclusive of the tax and wind up with VAT increases hidden in prices.

Progressive income taxes are the most fair if you don't have crazy deductions and you base it on the marginal value of money.

Straight consumption tax is a regressive tax as those in lower income brackets will be paying a higher effective tax rate than those in higher income brackets as compared to total income.

Did OP get banned for this thread or something else?

The IRS is like Baskin-Robbins. They always find out.

 

[The Artisan]

The IRS has literally done nothing wrong, other than being "slow" in your opinion. What would have been the proper speed for you?

goddamn Matt the whole reason I made this thread was because I received a letter from them telling me to resubmit a payment of an amount I never owed them in the first place! it is as if you'd rather just side with the government and feel compelled to stress me out even more!

first of all, you contradicted yourself when you start by saying they "literally did nothing wrong" by continuing the statement saying they were being slow, even if it is just my opinion. that means that yes, they did something wrong, so "literally nothing" doesn't apply.

and second of all, it's pretty inconsiderate of you to ask what I think the proper speed would've been because I stated as much in the OP and other posts. the proper speed would've been immediate. some person/system or whatever could've first seen that I made a payment that I didn't owe, and said, wait a minute, this guy does not owe us this, so we should reject it - instead of processing it, and then later realize that it shouldn't have been process, while i take measures to undo it not knowing the slow ass system was working on it at its own damn pace

 

[ZackieChan]

goddamn Matthew the whole reason I made this thread was because I received a letter from them telling me to resubmit a payment of an amount I never owed them in the first place! it is as if you'd rather just side with the government and feel compelled to stress me out even more!

first of all, you contradicted yourself when you start by saying they "literally did nothing wrong" by continuing the statement saying they were being slow, even if it is just my opinion. that means that yes, they did something wrong, so "literally nothing" doesn't apply.

and second of all, it's pretty inconsiderate of you to ask what I think the proper speed would've been because I stated as much in the OP and other posts. the proper speed would've been immediate. some person/system or whatever could've first seen that I made a payment that I didn't owe, and said, wait a minute, this guy does not owe us this, so we should reject it - instead of processing it, and then later realize that it shouldn't have been process, while i take measures to undo it not knowing the slow ass system was working on it at its own damn pace

As opposed to your timely reply speed...

Any update on this, btw?

 

[Souldestroyer Reborn]

Why the fuck don't you guys just use a PAYE system like the UK?

Taxes autoamagically get removed from your wage each month, you then cry a little and call the the taxman a cunt.

Rinse and repeat 12 times per year.

 

[FyreWulff]

Why the fuck don't you guys just use a PAYE system like the UK?

Taxes autoamagically get removed from your wage each month, you then cry a little and call the the taxman a cunt.

Rinse and repeat 12 times per year.

Because any attempt to automate the whole IRS stuff was shot down

 

[TheContact]

I'm surprised H&R Block didn't take care of the payments to the IRS and your State.

Yea what the hell? They overcharge the fuck out of doing your taxes for reasons like this. Btw, don't use h&r block in the future. Find a local accountant.

 

[JaseC]

As opposed to your timely reply speed...

His ban didn't expire until today, to be fair.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

Because any attempt to automate the whole IRS stuff was shot down

Americans are stupid

 

[digdug2k]

We used to use HRBlock, but they literally just gave us two envelopes when we left with huge notes on them that say "Put this much in this envelope and mail it" for each one. Its pretty dead simple.

They're nice people though. I wouldn't worry about the interest. Call. Tell them what happened. They'll probably just fix it all over the phone for you.

 

[JinjoUnchained]

Let this be a lesson to everyone reading this thread: if there's anything on your tax return that's vague or open to interpretation, the IRS will screw you over. It's a moral hazard for them, there's no reason for them to interpret your situation in a way that will benefit you. There main motivation is collecting as much revenue as possible. They will stonewall you if you try to correct their faulty charges and interest penalties, and then put a lien on your income so you have no choice.

Honestly, if I had a big tax bill, I'd rather charge it to a credit card and make payments than deal with the IRS. So don't mess around with your forms, payments, or filing. Make sure all of your info is filled out on the tax forms with backup according to each form's rules and that you mail them early to the correct address certified mail, with payment enclose if owed. If you have any questions on any of that, pay for professional tax preparation. If they try to screw you over, go see a tax attorney.

Don't mess with the IRS, ever.

 

[The Artisan]

No, none of that is right.

The OP paid twice. The IRS actually noticed this, and cut the OP a check to cover the overpayment. The OP then went to his bank, and did a charge back, so that money the IRS just cut a check for was taken from the IRS. So they were now out that money. In response, the IRS told the OP that he owes them money, which is in fact correct.

The OP returned the check, so everything should be worked out within the amount of time the IRS said. Again, the IRS did not make a mistake here.

No, the IRS made the mistake of accepting my first payment instead of rejecting it immediately like they should have.

His ban didn't expire until today, to be fair.

Thank you.

As opposed to your timely reply speed...

Any update on this, btw?

Yes. The following week, I finally got a hold of the IRS, spoke to a gentleman on the phone and he was very nice about the whole thing, told me pretty much how it is just the slow system and said that I can disregard the letter as it arrived during the 60 days of processing that the IRS still needed to do when I sent the check back.

 

[HawksWinStanley]

It blows my mind just how incompetent and unprofessional the vast majority of people are. I have no idea how most of the workforce actually keeps their jobs.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

Americans are stupid

Yet we run the free world.

It blows my mind just how incompetent and unprofessional the vast majority of people are. I have no idea how most of the workforce actually keeps their jobs.

Avatar quote and all that.

 

[PandaPandaPanda]

Yet we ran the free world.



Avatar quote and all that.

fixed for accuracy (and fwiw I live in 'MURICA)

 

[DudeWithNoName]

I'm surprised H&R Block didn't take care of the payments to the IRS and your State.

Next year, buy TurboTax or Tax Cut (this one is essentially the same software thise "agents" use).
Unless you own a business or have some other extraordinary sources of income, do it yourself.

 

[crisdecuba]

No, the IRS made the mistake of accepting my first payment instead of rejecting it immediately like they should have.

Thank you.

Yes. The following week, I finally got a hold of the IRS, spoke to a gentleman on the phone and he was very nice about the whole thing, told me pretty much how it is just the slow system and said that I can disregard the letter as it arrived during the 60 days of processing that the IRS still needed to do when I sent the check back.

Wait, why should they have rejected your first payment? I reread through the original post and some of the thread but I couldn't figure that out

 

[Tallshortman]

Progressive income taxes are terrible. Even worse when they are combined with inconsistent itemized deductions and legislation "loopholes".

Straight consumption tax on every transaction. Make it legally required to be itemizied on the receipt so we don't get prices quoted inclusive of the tax and wind up with VAT increases hidden in prices.

Lol hell no, conservative fantasy is a pure consumption tax base. It is a regressive tax which is absolutely terrible in comparison.

 

[KHarvey16]

Wait, why should they have rejected your first payment? I reread through the original post and some of the thread but I couldn't figure that out

He is mad the IRS didn't protect him from himself.

 

[The Artisan]

Wait, why should they have rejected your first payment? I reread through the original post and some of the thread but I couldn't figure that out

I never owed them an amount of $764. Instead of a person on the other end or just the system itself detecting that I never owed them that amount, they take it and process it and then later because of their fuckin slow asses they detect that I didn't owe them that.

He is mad the IRS didn't protect him from himself.

I'll speak for myself, sir. I am mad/was mad because the IRS is so slow. And accept payments automatically without first looking at the payments to see if they should be rejected.

 

[Transistor]

I never owed them an amount of $764. Instead of a person on the other end or just the system itself detecting that I never owed them that amount, they take it and process it and then later because of their fuckin slow asses they detect that I didn't owe them that.

You clearly have no idea how understaffed the IRS is. They don't have the manpower to manually check everybody's submitted amount.

Should have submitted the right amount in the first place.

 

[Zoe]

Why the fuck don't you guys just use a PAYE system like the UK?

Taxes autoamagically get removed from your wage each month, you then cry a little and call the the taxman a cunt.

Rinse and repeat 12 times per year.

The government does take taxes from you with every paycheck. The problem is that many people don't bother filling out their tax information correctly, and there are many non-work related things that affect your tax liability which, again, people don't bother accounting for when filling out their tax information.

 

[The Artisan]

You clearly have no idea how understaffed the IRS is. They don't have the manpower to manually check everybody's submitted amount.

Should have submitted the right amount in the first place.

Not until this thread, and I've already acknowledged and established, more than once, that the IRS being understaffed is a serious problem.

 

[KHarvey16]

I'll speak for myself, sir. I am mad/was mad because the IRS is so slow. And accept payments automatically without first looking at the payments to see if they should be rejected.

You tried to pay your state taxes to the federal government. You created this problem and you can wait.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

fixed for accuracy (and fwiw I live in 'MURICA)

I disagree but for the sake of not derailing the thread I'll keep my response to myself. If you want to chat about it, feel free to send me a PM.

 

[crisdecuba]

I never owed them an amount of $764. Instead of a person on the other end or just the system itself detecting that I never owed them that amount, they take it and process it and then later because of their fuckin slow asses they detect that I didn't owe them that.

The way you think the system should work (that they should reject a payment due to overpayment) makes little sense. You expect an institution that you owe money to to reject a payment sent to them because it was greater than the amount owed. Why does that make more sense to you than what every institution or business does today, which is process the payment and subsequently issue a refund for the overpayment? Why would you expect the institution to say no to the money they *are* owed because the payment was for more than that amount?

 

[gaiages]

goddamn Matthew the whole reason I made this thread was because I received a letter from them telling me to resubmit a payment of an amount I never owed them in the first place! it is as if you'd rather just side with the government and feel compelled to stress me out even more!

first of all, you contradicted yourself when you start by saying they "literally did nothing wrong" by continuing the statement saying they were being slow, even if it is just my opinion. that means that yes, they did something wrong, so "literally nothing" doesn't apply.

and second of all, it's pretty inconsiderate of you to ask what I think the proper speed would've been because I stated as much in the OP and other posts. the proper speed would've been immediate. some person/system or whatever could've first seen that I made a payment that I didn't owe, and said, wait a minute, this guy does not owe us this, so we should reject it - instead of processing it, and then later realize that it shouldn't have been process, while i take measures to undo it not knowing the slow ass system was working on it at its own damn pace

Why... why would you bump the thread over a month later to yell at someone?

Also his full name might be Matthias you shouldn't assume

His ban didn't expire until today, to be fair.

True but why

letitgo.gif

 

[RedStep]

it is as if you'd rather just side with the government and feel compelled to stress me out even more!

Holy shit, the abrasiveness, whininess, and naivety are not a great combination. You don't get how this shit works, fine. Other people are cluing in you and unless their post is "yeah, fuck the IRS" you go off on them. If you can't handle responses without them 'stressing you out more', maybe don't post in the first place. Taxes are for grown-ups, so there's a reasonable assumption that you can handle grown-up conversation about them.

Yes, the IRS (and many others) will take payments when they are not owed. Taxes are pre-paid (when they have no awareness of them), post-paid, in arrears, etc. If they only collected on existing balances, they couldn't function (as "well" as they do now). But it will all come out in the wash. If you know you paid (or if you were told a payment would be drafted, which is how filing works), you're good. This is not a complicated situation.

 

[The Artisan]

You tried to pay your state taxes to the federal government. You created this problem and you can wait.

I created this problem and I take fault for it and I did everything I was supposed to for correcting it but because the IRS is so fucking slow, I was continued being punished for it - the letter which was the reason for making my OP.

The way you think the system should work (that they should reject a payment due to overpayment) makes little sense. You expect an institution that you owe money to to reject a payment sent to them because it was greater than the amount owed. Why does that make more sense to you than what every institution or business does today, which is process the payment and subsequently issue a refund for the overpayment? Why would you expect the institution to say no to the money they *are* owed because the payment was for more than that amount?

Why does it make little sense considering they still went ahead and took the individual amount out? It's not like this payment of $764 was given to them and then later $153 was refunded to me, $764 was paid to them and then they also took $611 from me. The confusion of refunds didn't come until much later.

Why... why would you bump the thread over a month later to yell at someone?

Also his full name might be Matthias you shouldn't assume



True but why

letitgo.gif

Because I didn't have a chance to respond earlier. Edit: also edited previous post

Holy shit, the abrasiveness, whininess, and naivety are not a great combination. You don't get how this shit works, fine. Other people are cluing in you and unless their post is "yeah, fuck the IRS" you go off on them. If you can't handle responses without them 'stressing you out more', maybe don't post in the first place. Taxes are for grown-ups, so there's a reasonable assumption that you can handle grown-up conversation about them.

Yes, the IRS (and many others) will take payments when they are not owed. Taxes are pre-paid (when they have no awareness of them), post-paid, in arrears, etc. If they only collected on existing balances, they couldn't function (as "well" as they do now). But it will all come out in the wash. If you know you paid (or if you were told a payment would be drafted, which is how filing works), you're good. This is not a complicated situation.

There have been other people who clued me in just fine, without having to antagonize me while they're at it. And most other grown ups I've talked to about this agree with me that the IRS is a slow ass system, which doesn't make matters any better. edit: as for the abrasiveness, whininess, and naivety, I'm not here to impress you anyways. If you don't care that this caused me unnecessary stress then fine, but you're not here being helpful either

 

[TyrantII]

Why does it make little sense considering they still went ahead and took the individual amount out? It's not like this payment of $764 was given to them and then later $153 was refunded to me, $764 was paid to them and then they also took $611 from me. The confusion of refunds didn't come until much later.

The IRS doesn't automatically take stuff from you, you or someone on your behalf sends it.

Sounds like your tax preparer might have sent it with filling after telling you to send the $700. The big fuckup seems to be going to a bad tax accountant with their shit not together.

 

[The Artisan]

The IRS doesn't automatically take stuff from you, you or someone on your behalf sends it.

Sounds like your tax preparer might have sent it with filling after telling you to send the $700. The big fuckup seems to be going to a bad tax accountant with their shit not together.

When I asked the H&R agent how to make the payments he said go to irs.gov but it turns out that the payments were all automated. I feel like he could've just said that to me.

 

[crisdecuba]

Why does it make little sense considering they still went ahead and took the individual amount out? It's not like this payment of $764 was given to them and then later $153 was refunded to me, $764 was paid to them and then they also took $611 from me. The confusion of refunds didn't come until much later.

I am only asking about why you think they should have rejected your first payment. You seemed to say that they should have rejected it because it was more than the amount owed. And then I asked you why you think an institution should reject money that is owed to them because it also included an overpayment.

 

[crisdecuba]

When I asked the H&R agent how to make the payments he said go to irs.gov but it turns out that the payments were all automated. I feel like he could've just said that to me.

Yes - That is completely a mistake on that agent. And it would've prevented your entire experience

 

[Negotiator]

It blows my mind just how incompetent and unprofessional the vast majority of people are. I have no idea how most of the workforce actually keeps their jobs.

Favoritism

 

[Apt101]

Hindsight is 20/20, but in the future always pay taxes with a money order. Don't ever give the IRS or state access to your bank account in any way. They are dumb and sloppy.

 

[The Artisan]

I am only asking about why you think they should have rejected your first payment. You seemed to say that they should have rejected it because it was more than the amount owed. And then I asked you why you think an institution should reject money that is owed to them because it also included an overpayment.

Because I never owed them THAT exact amount. I saw that they took that amount out, and instead of giving back $153 afterwards, the next thing that happened was that they took $611 out, effectively at that point they took from me $764 + $611 then AFTERWARDS the $764 got questioned.

Things like this hasn't happened to me before - overpaying an institution and when something like this has happened to me, I am usually able to reverse it right away. That wasn't the case with the IRS. Solving this problem took a very long time.

Yes - That is completely a mistake on that agent. And it would've prevented your entire experience

True, the agent's mistake is what started this whole problem of mine however, this thread has taught me that hitting my bank up first should've been a last resort. But like I said, I panicked.

 

[Chumly]

Where is the anger at H&R Block. I mean you paid these guys money. For what I have no idea. Because this was basic advice on their end and I have no idea how they fucked it up

Next time do turbo tax

 

[The Artisan]

Where is the anger at H&R Block. I mean you paid these guys money. For what I have no idea. Because this was basic advice on their end and I have no idea how they fucked it up

Next time do turbo tax

no, for sure. I will probably never use H&R ever fucking again. Other posters have told some of their own stories in this thread themselves.

 

[crisdecuba]

Because I never owed them THAT exact amount.

I trimmed it down to the only part I am asking about, because it feels like your position on the specific point makes little sense. There are basically two ways to approach overpayment: 1) way you feel it should work (reject any payment for an amount different then the actual amount owed), and 2) the way it actually works process any payments, and deal with any refund after that.

From the business' standpoint, it doesn't make sense to do it your way because they would risk losing out on a payment that they managed to get from you.

From the customer's standpoint, in the majority of cases it creates greater inconvenience and potentially addition cost to do it your way. The customer has to go through processing another payment and potentially was assessed fees / finance charges in the interim.

 

[The Artisan]

I trimmed it down to the only part I am asking about, because it feels like your position on the specific point makes little sense. There are basically two ways to approach overpayment: 1) way you feel it should work (reject any payment for an amount different then the actual amount owed), and 2) the way it actually works process any payments, and deal with any refund after that.

From the business' standpoint, it doesn't make sense to do it your way because they would risk losing out on a payment that they managed to get from you.

From the customer's standpoint, in the majority of cases it creates greater inconvenience and potentially addition cost to do it your way. The customer has to go through processing another payment and potentially was assessed fees / finance charges in the interim.

from the business standpoint: fair enough, i'll go along with it not making sense if they're going to lose out on a payment or whatever still doesn't mean l like it, however, like I said earlier something like this when it's happened to me in the past I am able to reverse the payment immediately. With the IRS it was very long and drawn out, more than it needed to be for efficiency's sake.

 

[crisdecuba]

from the business standpoint: fair enough, i'll go along with it not making sense if they're going to lose out on a payment or whatever still doesn't mean l like it, however, like I said earlier something like this when it's happened to me in the past I am able to reverse the payment immediately. With the IRS it was very long and drawn out, more than it needed to be for efficiency's sake.

I agree the IRS is inefficient, totally. And I hear what you're saying about being able to reverse it when it's happened in the past. All I am arguing is that a practice of rejecting overpayments altogether is bad for the largest number of people because in the majority of cases people make the payment and don't realize the overpayment has been made (they're not like you in that they would not even realize they should get it reversed) and it's better for them to just receive a refund rather than have to make the payment over again altogether.

 

[The Artisan]

I agree the IRS is inefficient, totally. And I hear what you're saying about being able to reverse it when it's happened in the past. All I am arguing is that a practice of rejecting overpayments altogether is bad for the largest number of people because in the majority of cases people make the payment and don't realize the overpayment has been made (they're not like you in that they would not even realize they should get it reversed) and it's better for them to just receive a refund rather than have to make the payment over again altogether.

I think I get what you're saying, so we're at a mutual understanding then.

 

[crisdecuba]

I think I get what you're saying, so we're at a mutual understanding then.

Sorry if I dragged it on too long.

 

[metareferential]

I feel you OP, but rejoice, in Europe we pay a lot more. A lot. Every year. No refunds.

(yes we do get something in return though, but still).

 

[Jackpot]

goddamn Matthew the whole reason I made this thread was because I received a letter from them telling me to resubmit a payment of an amount I never owed them in the first place! it is as if you'd rather just side with the government and feel compelled to stress me out even more!

first of all, you contradicted yourself when you start by saying they "literally did nothing wrong" by continuing the statement saying they were being slow, even if it is just my opinion. that means that yes, they did something wrong, so "literally nothing" doesn't apply.

and second of all, it's pretty inconsiderate of you to ask what I think the proper speed would've been because I stated as much in the OP and other posts. the proper speed would've been immediate. some person/system or whatever could've first seen that I made a payment that I didn't owe, and said, wait a minute, this guy does not owe us this, so we should reject it - instead of processing it, and then later realize that it shouldn't have been process, while i take measures to undo it not knowing the slow ass system was working on it at its own damn pace

1 month off and first thing you do is pick up right where you left off to argue semantics and tone policing? That's quite some grudge you've been nurturing.

 

[The Artisan]

Sorry if I dragged it on too long.

no worries dude

I feel you OP, but rejoice, in Europe we pay a lot more. A lot. Every year. No refunds.

(yes we do get something in return though, but still).

everywhere in Europe? or just the country you're in?

1 month off and first thing you do is pick up right where you left off to argue semantics and tone policing? That's quite some grudge you've been nurturing.

this thread was the last place I was when I was on GAF. I had a complete thought in mind in response to his post and I wanted to complete it. You also didn't go through what I went through, so what's the big deal?

 

[gaiages]

I mean, immediately going in to argue with someone in an old thread right after a ban probably doesn't look too great to mods... and you're kind of needlessly confrontative about something said a month ago. Most people wouldn't think to come back from a ban to immediately to dunk on some guy that made you mad a month ago. I mean if you were providing an update that's a different story, but you didn't even do that until someone else asked...

 

[The Artisan]

I mean, immediately going in to argue with someone in an old thread right after a ban probably doesn't look too great to mods... and you're kind of needlessly confrontative about something said a month ago. Most people wouldn't think to come back from a month ban to immediately to dunk on some guy that made you mad a month ago. I mean if you were providing an update that's a different story, but you didn't even do that until someone else asked...

I didn't get banned because of this thread, though. And I did provide an update. But okay, I'll move on from this thread then.

Edit: I meant to put the update in the post it just slimmed my mind, so my fault for that.