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[Ron Mexico]

time frame is like after making the lump sum payment, 3 or 4 days later I see that the payments are taken but then a week or two later I get a letter in the mail from them saying the $764 processing failed and about a week or less after that I get the $764 refund check

edit: @brianmcdoogle

So the issue there is the payments and refunds are being managed separately. The 3-4 days is standard fare for the processing of the original payment. Then the dispute was done during the processing window of the payment vs. refund and it just snowballed.

I'm not impressed by the bank rep that did this. Even more so if both had posted in quick succession.

 

[n0razi]

lol thats nothing...

One of my businesses got randomly audited by the IRS a few years ago and they told me that I owed $20k in back taxes even though I have a CPA who cross his T's and dots his I's. They made me dig up literally thousands of pages of old documents and receipts (had to go to multiple banks, talk to old clients who I havent talked to in years, talk to at least 10 different CSRs over the span of 3 weeks). I also had to pay my CPA and additional $60/hr to do all the paperwork and he had to meet with the IRS rep multiple times). I talked to a couple of lawyers and basically they told me I could fight it and win but then I would probably be audited again next year (and again the next year) so I basically said fuck it and paid up the 20k, they haven't bothered me again but it was pure strong-arming.

 

[brianmcdoogle]

time frame is like after making the lump sum payment, 3 or 4 days later I see that the payments are taken but then a week or two later I get a letter in the mail from them saying the $764 processing failed and about a week or less after that I get the $764 refund check

edit: @brianmcdoogle

That's actually relatively quick for future reference. Because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed and they have to deal with a lot, most things take several days to weeks to transpire. So, I can totally see a scenario where because of the chain of events things just cascaded poorly against you where things certain things got started after your chargeback and so on. Also, it can be being handled by different people or departments so things aren't done sequentially to how you think they might be.

In general, they will be slow to give you money back and quicker to ask for money or notice problems with you owing them money.

I know it is frustrating, but it looks like things will be resolved ok, but in the future, don't do the charge back, and double check HRB because it seems like these screwups start with them and maybe the bank for not warning you of this potential problem.

Also, you may have a IRS office near where you live if you want to talk to someone in person. Just go first thing in the morning and it shouldn't take more than an hour or two (depending on what day you go and time of year and all).

 

[Linkura]

To add to H&R Block shit:

I gave them my taxes documents, and they took a pre-charge of $500 for the job. This was in April. It's past the June 15 deadline for the IRS and THEY STILL HAVE NOT FILED MY TAXES.

FUCK H&R BLOCK.

One sentence summary to this thread: Don't fucking use H&R Block.

 

[The Artisan]

So the issue there is the payments and refunds are being managed separately. The 3-4 days is standard fare for the processing of the original payment. Then the dispute was done during the processing window of the payment vs. refund and it just snowballed.

I'm not impressed by the bank rep that did this. Even more so if both had posted in quick succession.

the issue i take with my bank rep is that she clearly did not talk to a person about this, she just did whatever she did to reverse that but there was no actual person that she communicated the info that i gave to her. that's why whenever i dial a hotline I hate talkin' the goddamn machines. it'll never be the same as getting through to a fellow homo sapien

 

[The Artisan]

That's actually relatively quick for future reference. Because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed and they have to deal with a lot, most things take several days to weeks to transpire. So, I can totally see a scenario where because of the chain of events things just cascaded poorly against you where things certain things got started after your chargeback and so on.

In general, they will be slow to give you money back and quicker to ask for money or notice problems with you owing them money.

the bolded is my main takeaway from your post. I get the feeling that if the IRS was better built and staffed, maybe all this would've never happened; OR it would've have been solved more quickly and less aggravation would've been experienced

 

[Ron Mexico]

the issue i take with my bank rep is that she clearly did not talk to a person about this, she just did whatever she did to reverse that but there was no actual person that she communicated the info that i gave to her. that's why whenever i dial a hotline I hate talkin' the goddamn machines. it'll never be the same as getting through to a fellow homo sapien

She did what she needed to reverse it because that's the dispute form that you signed that told her to do so.

She didn't have the awareness to ask the right questions to have avoided this all along. Your chain of events to someone with experience screams out "DON'T DO A DISPUTE". She did.

There's all kinds of blame to go around here. I'm not sure the IRS cracks the top few.

 

[Makai]

And you people think robots will take over white collar jobs.

 

[The Artisan]

That's actually relatively quick for future reference. Because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed and they have to deal with a lot, most things take several days to weeks to transpire. So, I can totally see a scenario where because of the chain of events things just cascaded poorly against you where things certain things got started after your chargeback and so on. Also, it can be being handled by different people or departments so things aren't done sequentially to how you think they might be.

In general, they will be slow to give you money back and quicker to ask for money or notice problems with you owing them money.

I know it is frustrating, but it looks like things will be resolved ok, but in the future, don't do the charge back, and double check HRB because it seems like these screwups start with them and maybe the bank for not warning you of this potential problem.

Also, you may have a IRS office near where you live if you want to talk to someone in person. Just go first thing in the morning and it shouldn't take more than an hour or two (depending on what day you go and time of year and all).

responding to your edits

yes there is a local IRS office here and that's the one I went to to hand them the refund check. But as for HRB, the people in this thread pretty unanimously hate them so I don't think I'll fuck with them again in the future.

She did what she needed to reverse it because that's the dispute form that you signed that told her to do so.

She didn't have the awareness to ask the right questions to have avoided this all along. Your chain of events to someone with experience screams out "DON'T DO A DISPUTE". She did.

There's all kinds of blame to go around here. I'm not sure the IRS cracks the top few.

i've already said where I think the IRS is to blame so that's that. It's not entirely on them of course part of it is on me as well for making so many regrettable mistakes. Also like others in the thread have said, I should not have gone and hit up my bank first anyways, my first move should have been to call HRB

 

[brianmcdoogle]

responding to your edits

yes there is a local IRS office here and that's the one I went to to hand them the refund check. But as for HRB, the people in this thread pretty unanimously hate them so I don't think I'll fuck with them again in the future.

Just a heads up, you'll probably see issues with other groups like Liberty Tax and... I forget the other one that pops up around tax season with those waiving signs on streets. Ask around to see if anyone in your area is using a small outfit, as they may work out better for you in the future. You may pay more, but you'll probably have a better experience. Or, you can try to self file yourself, but obviously that is going to require more work and it falls entirely on you.

Oh oh! I just remember I do have an HRB story!

I was leaving a grocery store and some lady came up to me asking if she could get a ride to HRB because she was late to work and whatever. She didn't have a purse or anything to conceal a weapon, and seemed genuinely nice, so I agreed. As soon as we left the parking lot she propositioned me. I declined, we chatted on the way about how she needed money and couldn't afford to lose her job and whatnot and tried asking me again. I declined again. Five minutes later (it was like 1.5 miles a drive total, no more than 5 minutes in the car) I dropped her off in front of the office.

That's my HRB story.

 

[gaiages]

One sentence summary to this thread: Don't fucking use H&R Block.

Or any chain tax return place like that. I worked for one like 5 years ago to get something for my resume and trust me, no one is properly trained on any of that crap. Most of the people that come in could do their taxes themselves tbqh.

The tax preparer should have helped with submitting the payment more than just "go online", he didn't even bother to explain that the state payment needs to go elsewhere. Smdh

 

[hollomat]

Though thinking about it I could probably claim 3 and be fine since I get a huge bonus for having two kids and one income source. My twins were born the last week of December and I got back around $10k from the feds and another $1k from the state.

If this is the case you really need to review your taxes. You definitely should not be overpaying by $11k

 

[Opto]

Girl friend of mine used a tax service (forget which) and they didn't even ask about her federal student loans.

 

[Matt]

So to be clear OP, everything that happened was the result of your mistakes. Which is fine, you didn't know what you were doing and messed up. But the IRS hasn't done anything wrong here, nor did you bank.

 

[FyreWulff]

The US has some of the most ass backwards systems. From healthcare to education. The IRS is just one more. Hell, in Mexico, you do all the process directly in the IRS equivalent, event setting up payments! The only reason to go and do something else is if you have any special conditions.

To be honest, I'm amuse you don't have to do the whole thing in paper and pen.

We almost had automatic calculated taxes and paperwork, the Republicans killed it.

One sentence summary to this thread: Don't fucking use H&R Block.

Unless you earn <65,000$ because then you can get them to do your taxes for free via United Way

 

[ZackieChan]

I'm married, have two kids, and own a home and I only claim 1.

I gotn $11k back taking into account the EIC and child credits.

So you could have had an extra $800 or so a month in your pocket during the year? Could have been in an investment account earning money.

 

[Linkura]

Unless you earn <65,000$ because then you can get them to do your taxes for free via United Way

If you earn <$65k, you can probably do your own taxes. If you're scared, use TurboTax. I wouldn't trust H&R Block even if they were free.

 

[Syriel]

Don't use HR Block. If your taxes are so easy that HR Block does it you can do it yourself.


Anyhow, just pay what you owe to the IRS and to the state separately. Look up your state franchise board or state tax board. Next time, pay directly to the IRS and to your state-- I would do paper check to IRS and e-pay with the state if your state is CA.

Or, if you don't own property or investments, just do it with TurboTax for free, efile with the IRS for free, and epay the IRS for free.

 

[The Artisan]

So to be clear OP, everything that happened was the result of your mistakes. Which is fine, you didn't know what you were doing and messed up. But the IRS hasn't done anything wrong here, nor did you bank.

...um, na. i've already made my responses throughout my other posts. i take responsibility and blame but not all of it. the IRS should not be so slow, that is a serious problem, and H&R block should not have given me bad directions.

and yes I on the other hand should not have contacted my bank as a first instinct.

 

[Matt]

...um, na. i've already made my responses throughout my other posts. i take responsibility and blame but not all of it. the IRS should not be so slow, that is a serious problem, and H&R block should not have given me bad directions.

and yes I on the other hand should not have contacted my bank as a first instinct.

The IRS has to manage the taxes for 325 million people, and millions more business and organizations. They haven't been that slow, it takes time to work out issues.

H&R Block also had you authorize, in advance, the IRS and your state tax agency to take the money you owe directly out of your bank account. You either didn't realize you were doing this, or forgot, but when you called to ask what to do, they assumed you had not already made an authorization.

You forgot that you already authorized payment, you double paid the IRS, you paid the IRS money that should have gone to your state, and you had your bank chargeback the federal government as your first response, when you were the one that made the mistake.

Again, people make mistakes, that's fine. It doesn't reflect badly on you, you are only human. But there is no need to pass the blame on.

 

[Rodney McKay]

One sentence summary to this thread: Don't fucking use H&R Block.

Yeah, I went there once to see if they could save me some money over what TurboTax said I needed to pay.

All the lady did was enter all the same info I entered in TurboTax into their own system, except she did it 10x slower because she was typing with two fingers and was clearly new to the company because she had to ask for help every two minutes (definitely a confidence boost for people doing my taxes).

And after wasting all that time they said I needed to pay more than TurboTax did, haha, thank gad the consolation was free. Didn't offer me any advice or anything, just "here you go, want to pay us to file it for you?" I declined and have been doing my taxes online ever since.

 

[The Artisan]

The IRS has to manage the taxes for 325 million people, and millions more business and organizations. They haven't been that slow, it takes time to work out issues.

H&R Block also had you authorize, in advance, the IRS and your state tax agency to take the money you owe directly out of your bank account. You either didn't realize you were doing this, or forgot, but when you called to ask what to do, they assumed you had not already made an authorization.

You forgot that you already authorized payment, you double paid the IRS, you paid the IRS money that should have gone to your state, and you had your bank chargeback the federal government as your first response, when you were the one that made the mistake.

Again, people make mistakes, that's fine. It doesn't reflect badly on you, you are only human. But there is no need to pass the blame on.

First off no, IRS have been very slow, others in the thread have said that. If it is because they are understaffed and underfunded then that is a serious problem.

Second of all, when I was on the phone with H&R Block, I specifically said "I've never done this before, so how do I do it?" And he proceeded to tell me to go to irs.gov. How the hell do you know what they were assuming? I'm not going to take full blame on this. It's not my fault I was misdirected and it's not my fault that the IRS is so slow

 

[Matt]

First off no, IRS have been very slow, others in the thread have said that. If it is because they are understaffed and underfunded then that is a serious problem.

Second of all, when I was on the phone with H&R Block, I specifically said "I've never done this before, so how do I do it?" And he proceeded to tell me to go to irs.gov. How the hell do you know what they were assuming? I'm not going to take full blame on this. It's not my fault I was misdirected and it's not my fault that the IRS is so slow

The IRS has literally done nothing wrong, other than being "slow" in your opinion. What would have been the proper speed for you?

 

[ZackieChan]

The IRS has literally done nothing wrong, other than being "slow" in your opinion. What would have been the proper speed for you?

We may never know now.

 

[Cyan]

Damn, the IRS is more powerful than I knew.

 

[KingV]

I'm surprised H&R Block didn't take care of the payments to the IRS and your State.

I'm guessing they DID and then gave him bad advice, and that's how he ended up double-paying.

 

[TaterTots]

Sounds like OP doesn't have healthcare and that's the Obamacare fine(Due to the amount). Either way OP your tax people should have given you proper directions you pay the State separately.

Obamacare fine? Does this apply to everyone regardless of wage? That's kind of screwed.

 

[bigmit3737]

Ok so first of all, just to be very clear, you never owed the IRS $764. You owed them $611, and you owed your state tax collecting agency $153. This is important because the IRS and state tax collectors are different entities and don't talk to each other. Sending the IRS $764 would not result in your state getting the correct amount of money, it would have meant you'd overpaid the IRS and your state collectors would be after you for the $153. This may be part of what's confusing anyone you might talk to at the IRS.

Money would not have been taken out of your account without your authorization. When you did your taxes, you probably input your bank information and ticked some box that directed each tax collecting agency to withdraw the money. Then you did it again via the IRS website. (As far as I know you have to input your SSN on the IRS site to make a payment, so there should at least be a clear trail on their end of what happened.)

Then you had your bank reverse the charge (for future reference, this should be a last resort) while the IRS had apparently figured out on their end that you'd overpaid and so issued a refund check (the physical check is probably because you hadn't given them authorization on your tax return to send electronic funds, since you were paying rather than getting a refund). This is why they came after you for $764: you overpaid by that amount, they were in the process of giving it back to you, then you pulled it back via your bank. From their perspective they had now double-paid you back.

Ok, you got the check from the IRS and handed it over to them, and were told it would take 60 days to clear up. It has not been 60 days yet. In the meantime their system still thinks they double-paid you back, and is dinging you for it. They are not trying to screw you. This is just bog-standard bureaucracy.

It's fine to be concerned about continuing to get notices, and you should maybe contact the IRS just to get reassurance that yes, once the thing with the check is cleared up the notices will stop coming. But what's actually happening here isn't the IRS fucking with you, it's that you made several mistakes, and the bureaucracy is slow in clearing them up.

Nicely written.

 

[brianmcdoogle]

Damn, the IRS is more powerful than I knew.

We need a special prosecutor to find out just how in debt NeoGAF is to the IRS!

(Hope he got some useful information in this thread before his disappearance).

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

So to be clear OP, everything that happened was the result of your mistakes. Which is fine, you didn't know what you were doing and messed up. But the IRS hasn't done anything wrong here, nor did you bank.

From what I read the IRS screwed up.
They charged interest due to a misapplied payment, then overcharged by a pretty large amount. The total was $611 to begin, they were paid well over $700.

 

[Matt]

From what I read the IRS screwed up.
They charged interest due to a misapplied payment, then overcharged by a pretty large amount. The total was $611 to begin, they were paid well over $700.

No, none of that is right.

The OP paid twice. The IRS actually noticed this, and cut the OP a check to cover the overpayment. The OP then went to his bank, and did a charge back, so that money the IRS just cut a check for was taken from the IRS. So they were now out that money. In response, the IRS told the OP that he owes them money, which is in fact correct.

The OP returned the check, so everything should be worked out within the amount of time the IRS said. Again, the IRS did not make a mistake here.

 

[ZackieChan]

Obamacare fine? Does this apply to everyone regardless of wage? That's kind of screwed.

You can exempt yourself if you make a low enough income, among other exemptions.

 

[Raylan Targaryen]

I claim 0 but this thread is telling me I've been doing it wrong this whole time.

Only reason I don't have it set to 1 is cuz when I was younger I remember my brother owing money while claiming 1 so I decided to claim 0. I'd take less money per paycheck instead of potentially having to owe some

 

[Alucrid]

damn the irs putting liens on neogaf accounts now

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

If this is the case you really need to review your taxes. You definitely should not be overpaying by $11k

So you could have had an extra $800 or so a month in your pocket during the year? Could have been in an investment account earning money.

The vast, vast majority of that is from owning a home, and the EIC and child credits.


It's also adding in my state refund from their child credits.

 

[el jacko]

First off no, IRS have been very slow, others in the thread have said that. If it is because they are understaffed and underfunded then that is a serious problem.

I don't know how it goes in European countries, but when I file taxes in Japan, I... well... I don't actually. My company's accountant pays income tax each month, and at the end of the year handles all returns AND lets the local governments know how much I should be paying.

The only forms I have to deal with are the ones telling me how much I paid (and get back each year) and the local bills which I just pay at the bank.

Even then, there's usually a 3-4 month lag time between anything being filed and when the bills or returns come in. It's bureaucracy, and even in the most efficient of countries it still takes time.

 

[Peccavi]

I feel like most (single, no kids) people should be able to claim 2 allowances, since that's still less than the personal exemption and standard deduction. Although maybe that won't work if everyone has a side hustle like the commercials say.

Edit: More correct, everyone should just use the IRS calculator to figure out their allowances, it's the simplest thing.

 

[Quixzlizx]

The vast, vast majority of that is from owning a home, and the EIC and child credits.


It's also adding in my state refund from their child credits.

What does that have to do with anything? You're still vastly over-paying throughout the year, regardless of where the deductions/credits are coming from.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

What does that have to do with anything? You're still vastly over-paying throughout the year, regardless of where the deductions/credits are coming from.

Eh, I don't care much either way. I get more than enough each month, especially with HIPP covering my family's premium and my kids having supplemental Medicare.

We are putting a chunk of that $11k away each year until the kids are old enough and we buy Disney World Vacation Club.

 

[brau]

Next year just use Turbotax.

I also pay for their year protection, so if anything like this ever happens they just take care of it. IF! you owe money they will have you print the correct form and slip to mail with the correct amount to Federal and State separately.

Its super easy to use, and its convenient if you don't have to deduct tons of things.

 

[The Albatross]

I'll never understand why people are so concerned with potentially giving the government what is essentially a few hundred dollar interest free loan...

(if you're a millionaire and potentially giving the government thousands of dollars extra, that's one thing...but you're also rich at that point so I don't really have any sympathy)

Yeah I feel this way too... I'm always piqued about the "It's an interest free loan!" argument when for most people it's like $1,000 and if you had that $1,000 in a typical short-term savings account, you'd get like $0.85 in interest over the course of a year.

I'd much rather pay more up front than not have to worry about the burden of coming up with a large tax payment every Spring. I owe taxes now because of freelance income and it hangs over me... I don't do quarterly payments because the work comes and goes and is tough to estimate, so I basically just try to put away 40% of every check into savings and then whatever's left over in April is my "Return."

 

[T.v]

I don't know how it goes in European countries, but when I file taxes in Japan, I... well... I don't actually. My company's accountant pays income tax each month, and at the end of the year handles all returns AND lets the local governments know how much I should be paying.

The only forms I have to deal with are the ones telling me how much I paid (and get back each year) and the local bills which I just pay at the bank.

Even then, there's usually a 3-4 month lag time between anything being filed and when the bills or returns come in. It's bureaucracy, and even in the most efficient of countries it still takes time.

Here in the Netherlands it's all automated. Government keeps track of everything, and every year they release an app where it's all summarized and calculated for you. All you have to do then is check if the information is correct, maybe tick a few extra boxes and verify it. This works for the vast majority of people here. I don't know if it's still as easy when your taxes get more complicated, but for like 40 bucks you can just get someone to do it all for you manually.

 

[spindashing]

damn the irs putting liens on neogaf accounts now

this made me laugh way more than it should have

 

[Redd]

I owed this year and used hr block. Never had a problem. Sounds like you messed up somewhere.

 

[AndyD]

I'm surprised H&R Block didn't take care of the payments to the IRS and your State.

Indeed. That's what you pay them for.

 

[AndyD]

Here in the Netherlands it's all automated. Government keeps track of everything, and every year they release an app where it's all summarized and calculated for you. All you have to do then is check if the information is correct, maybe tick a few extra boxes and verify it. This works for the vast majority of people here. I don't know if it's still as easy when your taxes get more complicated, but for like 40 bucks you can just get someone to do it all for you manually.

Tax and accounting companies in the US have and are lobbying very hard for this not to happen as it's a huge business for them. So far they are winning.

Realistically, this would work well in the US as well for the vast majority of people.

 

[ZackieChan]

Here in the Netherlands it's all automated. Government keeps track of everything, and every year they release an app where it's all summarized and calculated for you. All you have to do then is check if the information is correct, maybe tick a few extra boxes and verify it. This works for the vast majority of people here. I don't know if it's still as easy when your taxes get more complicated, but for like 40 bucks you can just get someone to do it all for you manually.

I guess if you're just a normal salaried/wage employee, that might work. But for someone like me (self employed with my own business), there's no way in hell I'd trust the government to figure out my deductions, etc. But the whole system may work differently over there. I think we're too far down the rabbit hole with our system to make any meaningful changes.
Heck, even if you're a normal wage slave, you could potentially have deductions and such. And if you went to school, there are deductions that the government may not know about.
TurboTax holds your hand through all this, and a lot of the basics are essentially automated now.

 

[Reagan's BR]

Progressive income taxes are terrible. Even worse when they are combined with inconsistent itemized deductions and legislation "loopholes".

Straight consumption tax on every transaction. Make it legally required to be itemizied on the receipt so we don't get prices quoted inclusive of the tax and wind up with VAT increases hidden in prices.

 

[T.v]

I guess if you're just a normal salaried/wage employee, that might work. But for someone like me (self employed with my own business), there's no way in hell I'd trust the government to figure out my deductions, etc. But the whole system may work differently over there. I think we're too far down the rabbit hole with our system to make any meaningful changes.
Heck, even if you're a normal wage slave, you could potentially have deductions and such. And if you went to school, there are deductions that the government may not know about.
TurboTax holds your hand through all this, and a lot of the basics are essentially automated now.

Like I said, it works for the majority of people. It might indeed get harder the more complicated your situation is, but no one I know has run in to problems. Government also knows exactly when and where you went to school and what that all means,but study loans are an entirely different beast as far as I know. Last year I got someone to do my taxes as I bought a house that previous year so that made things a bit more complicated, but that only cost me 40 bucks and they took care of everything.

 

[Linkura]

Did OP get banned for this thread or something else?