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FurryGAF |OT| They should have sent a veterinarian
- Thread starter Chuck
- Start date
Some people like to think of themselves as experts.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
People who work in the same field as what they're commenting on notice what others don't. It goes with the job description.
Does throwing peanuts go with it as well?
shysaursoft
Member
I know that feeling. But the only reason I do better with scenes right now, is because that's what I've been practicing. That, and gesture poses, which is a lot of rapid sketching while only having a model up for 60 seconds (quickposes.com is great for this). I posted a bit about it here: http://minotaurus-rex.tumblr.com/post/118290937109/a-few-60-second-studies-from-www-quickposes-com-a
Backgrounds are hard - it's why I'm currently doing the 30 day background challenge: http://minotaurus-rex.tumblr.com/post/119940952979/i-think-im-going-to-try-this-would-make-for
It's hard, though. But that's the point. Day 1 (Your Own Room) came out okay:
But Day 2, a Witches/Wizard's room, was a disaster:
I realized midway that (aside from still being woeful at painting), I had no idea how to paint glass, for the glass bottles.
Today's challenge is "an uninhabited planet", so I spent some time last night thumbnailing out ideas, still haven't decided on one:
The reason I'm currently focusing on backgrounds, is because they enhance a character immensely. A character just floating in a white void is a bit, flat, no matter how virtuoso the character is rendered. You can stylize it a bit to help, like adding a free-floating pad they're standing on (popular with the Japanese), but nothing says 'I care about my characters' like giving them a place to exist in, I think.
I'm trying to make up for my lack of skill in drawing characters, by having the environment around them look nice, which in turn makes the characters look nice:
I hope to one day be as good as Tracy J. Butler, the amount of research she puts into doing backdrops is amazing, and never fails at blowing me away.
She has a lot of great advice too, on how to draw, paint, construct: http://lackadaisycats.com/ishkabibble.php
I never once claimed to be an expert. I know I have a long road ahead of me, but I'm currently putting in a lot of effort to learn and get better, and that means being able to understand not just where you succeed, but where you can improve. Being able to point out mistakes doesn't make you an expert - but it does mean you can see them, and understand why there is a better way of doing things. Never mistake critique (not criticism) as someone always looking down at something.
I know I can't draw as well as D-Pad, I don't have that knack for making solid-looking, beefy characters. But that doesn't mean I can't offer advice when it comes to framing a scene, or reminding them that proper pre-planning, thumbnailing and layout considerations can take an average picture and make it amazing. There's no better way to learn than to try and explain something to someone else: because if you can't, that means you don't understand it properly yourself.
If D-Pad doesn't want my advice, they're free to say so, and I'll shut up. But what you're doing now is just throwing peanuts yourself, without actually adding anything. If you want the thread to just be "omg great art yiff", okay, sure. Perhaps I should make a 'Furry Artists Helping Each Other' thread then and take my crap elsewhere.
My original appraisal of the image, which I thought was just a random post from some site, was overly harsh, and for that I apologize to D-pad. It was unfair of me to be so snarky in my appraisal of it. My observations were framed badly, and I feel bad about it.
LUFTRAUSER
Banned
.
Cute Dragon Here
Member
Sometimes, I just try to follow my heart. At least, that's what happens when I draw...
Opinions and criticism are nice, too, so long as they're well-intentioned.
Opinions and criticism are nice, too, so long as they're well-intentioned.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
People who tear down other's work to feel smart are a real problem. They're everywhere and like to hear themselves talk. And because of that many people start to react to any commentary defensively.
Sometimes sincere commentary is poorly phrased, and part of being a professional is knowing what tone to take with a particular audience. But I think it's relatively easy to tell when someone is being critical because they care about the medium and are as critical of their own work.
shysaursoft
Member
For penance, I spent a few hours this morning using D-pad's drawing as the basis for pose and framing practice.
Aside from just general practice, the goal was to try and figure out where the "viewer" should be looking at the scene from, taking into consideration eye-level as defined by perspective, how to align things so that the important details (glass, bow, perhaps face) fall on the "rule of thirds" points, which is where the eye is naturally drawn to when looking at framed images.
It's not easy. Having the viewer be low, which gives the character in the scene an imposing look (low angle to emphasize the de-importance of viewer), makes foreshortning the bow and legs really rough, and would remove a lot of detail from the face from the scene.
Having the viewer be higher up, lessens the imposing nature of the character, since the viewer is "rising above" it all. I think a slightly tilted angle worked well, but then you lose the bow out the frame, unless you pull the frame back a lot, and then you have the problem of needing to draw a lot more backdrop to compensate.
It's also tough to draw a relaxed pose where the right arm is resting on the bow, due to the chair itself. The bow needs to be in front of the character, because off to the side it'd be behind the armrest.
It's a tough pose to pull off, without something in the scene getting out of whack. I think you did an excellent job on it D-Pad, even if certain elements do "jump out at me" because of how they clash with the parts that are well done. It's kind of like when you draw a pose, then flip the image horizontally (very important in drawing characters). You'll instantly notice any bad anatomy, because your brain is no longer correcting what it sees in front of it.
Anyway, that's enough stupid art crap from me.
Aside from just general practice, the goal was to try and figure out where the "viewer" should be looking at the scene from, taking into consideration eye-level as defined by perspective, how to align things so that the important details (glass, bow, perhaps face) fall on the "rule of thirds" points, which is where the eye is naturally drawn to when looking at framed images.
It's not easy. Having the viewer be low, which gives the character in the scene an imposing look (low angle to emphasize the de-importance of viewer), makes foreshortning the bow and legs really rough, and would remove a lot of detail from the face from the scene.
Having the viewer be higher up, lessens the imposing nature of the character, since the viewer is "rising above" it all. I think a slightly tilted angle worked well, but then you lose the bow out the frame, unless you pull the frame back a lot, and then you have the problem of needing to draw a lot more backdrop to compensate.
It's also tough to draw a relaxed pose where the right arm is resting on the bow, due to the chair itself. The bow needs to be in front of the character, because off to the side it'd be behind the armrest.
It's a tough pose to pull off, without something in the scene getting out of whack. I think you did an excellent job on it D-Pad, even if certain elements do "jump out at me" because of how they clash with the parts that are well done. It's kind of like when you draw a pose, then flip the image horizontally (very important in drawing characters). You'll instantly notice any bad anatomy, because your brain is no longer correcting what it sees in front of it.
Anyway, that's enough stupid art crap from me.
ColtraineGF
Member
I say more art info *bangs goblet on table*
I'd imagine that books of poses, or posing software would be useful in these cases. That DesignDoll application that (either you or someone else) shared seems interesting.
I'd imagine that books of poses, or posing software would be useful in these cases. That DesignDoll application that (either you or someone else) shared seems interesting.
Cute Dragon Here
Member
I'm thinking of drawing normal people for some reason now. Hopefully, I'll be able to get things at least semi-decently.
The next few days are going to be quite busy, though. A lot of things need to be set up and rearranged after moving.
(I think I just want to be able to draw well on everything...)
(Out of curiosity, are there anything special that I should be aware of when drawing directly on a screen compared to drawing on either paper or a graphics tablet?)
It's strange... I can visualise the thing I intend to draw very well, and yet...usually when I actually draw it, things look less than stellar.
The next few days are going to be quite busy, though. A lot of things need to be set up and rearranged after moving.
(I think I just want to be able to draw well on everything...)
(Out of curiosity, are there anything special that I should be aware of when drawing directly on a screen compared to drawing on either paper or a graphics tablet?)
It's strange... I can visualise the thing I intend to draw very well, and yet...usually when I actually draw it, things look less than stellar.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Cute Dragon Here
Member
New Boss Doggie avatar?
Thank you for that again, Miktar. Sorry for the late reply I wanted to do a quick sketch of the picture with your suggestions but ended up distracted, as usual > >;;
Curious, how long do you do these exercises each day? The quickposes looks like an excellent thing to do while sitting over my grandmother's every night. I have a sketchbook I've been ignoring, if the site works on my tablet I'm all set for that. And the thirty day scene challenge too. Feeling pumped about it now actually, as I've been wanting to get (even more) serious about my art (and music too, but that's another subject).
Curious, how long do you do these exercises each day? The quickposes looks like an excellent thing to do while sitting over my grandmother's every night. I have a sketchbook I've been ignoring, if the site works on my tablet I'm all set for that. And the thirty day scene challenge too. Feeling pumped about it now actually, as I've been wanting to get (even more) serious about my art (and music too, but that's another subject).
shysaursoft
Member
I've heard that ideally, one should do pose studies for at least four hours a day. I make it to an hour, max, before my wrist hurts or I get bored.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
LUFTRAUSER
Banned
.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
you know I don't think I've seen anthro MH art
Cute Dragon Here
Member
Looks fairly imposing, and I actually...kinda...um, like it. (Is that an understatement?)
(I like scary and cool things.)
*goes back to being cuddlier than normal*
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Yeah that's why I commented, it's a rare thing
Cute Dragon Here
Member
Same for me! But in my case, they're Argonians. I just love my lizard people.
I never actually played Skyrim, but the Khajiit always looked... off. Like someone just stuck a cat's head on a human body and called it a day. He/she looks really good in that pic though. I think it's mostly the arms - you can tell they have more "catlike" bone structure than what's presented in-game. The thicker neck helps too.
In general, I always dislike when fantasy art does "lazy-anthro" - just mix-and-matching human parts for the most distinctive animal parts without consideration for how more subtle things like the general bone structure and posture make it more believable and "animal-like". Whenever I do get around to playing Skyrim I probably will do Khajiit though.
Now that I think about it, I'll bet there are some mods out there to help make them more interesting. Hmm...
In general, I always dislike when fantasy art does "lazy-anthro" - just mix-and-matching human parts for the most distinctive animal parts without consideration for how more subtle things like the general bone structure and posture make it more believable and "animal-like". Whenever I do get around to playing Skyrim I probably will do Khajiit though.
Now that I think about it, I'll bet there are some mods out there to help make them more interesting. Hmm...
Cute Dragon Here
Member
They do! They almost do.
I tend to keep my mods light, but Argonians is where I make an exception. Because I find the ones out of the box to be too human-like.
Gonna repost this just to show you how good and believable something even like a hooved animal can look as a bipedal anthro. I am a stickler for "not just an animal head on a human body" deal as well.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
Cute Dragon Here
Member
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I find it only takes a few simple touches to blend a humanoid frame with non-human animal components. Just a thoughtfully blended neck into the animal head looks more cohesive than plopping a non-human skull on completely unmodified neck and shoulders.
The male characters in Blacksad are a good example. They're extremely human-like except for the head, but the art usually pays attention to how the head blends with the body and it works.
The male characters in Blacksad are a good example. They're extremely human-like except for the head, but the art usually pays attention to how the head blends with the body and it works.
Cute Dragon Here
Member
Bingo!
I think I'll probably try redrawing my character, and a bunch of other ideas, to make use of the neck blending. I think I'd also mess around with the back, too, in addition to the basically required feet changes.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Hmm I'm seeing muscular orcas in my watch lately.
Red The Hunter
Member
I think Solatorobo is another good example, as compared to it's predecessor, Tail Concerto they look like animals heads that have been slapped on a human torso. I will agree that good anthro character designs do have a good job at blending in animal motifs without them feeling like they're slapped on there for no rhyme or reason.
For comparison here's Tail Concerto:
And here's Solatorobo:
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Tail Concerto vs Solaroboto is interesting. In the former all the characters tend to use the "babyhead" construction with an animal muzzle and ears and in one sense that fits the vanilla human body better.
Solaroboto falls into the trend of "real animal heads for men, petting zoo people heads for women". However I do thing the overall body and costume design of the two male Solaroboto characters goes a long way towards pulling them together.
One caveat of course is the more cartoony the style, the less jarring it looks. When you get detailed with realistically proportioned bodies that have defined muscles and such, it becomes much easier to fall prey the cut-and-paste animal head look.
Also in general, I find hands and feet can make or break the look. If they're perfectly human (sometimes without even animal claws) it distracts unless you have that perfect Blacksad look. Lose an extra finger/toe, make them a bit stubbier and chunky, and they evoke what people read as an animalistic appearance.
Solaroboto falls into the trend of "real animal heads for men, petting zoo people heads for women". However I do thing the overall body and costume design of the two male Solaroboto characters goes a long way towards pulling them together.
One caveat of course is the more cartoony the style, the less jarring it looks. When you get detailed with realistically proportioned bodies that have defined muscles and such, it becomes much easier to fall prey the cut-and-paste animal head look.
Also in general, I find hands and feet can make or break the look. If they're perfectly human (sometimes without even animal claws) it distracts unless you have that perfect Blacksad look. Lose an extra finger/toe, make them a bit stubbier and chunky, and they evoke what people read as an animalistic appearance.
ColtraineGF
Member
Was wondering who'd be the first to post that, lol
Like the character design, but will wait on further news before committing to watch.
Like the character design, but will wait on further news before committing to watch.
shysaursoft
Member
You mean, Dadtopia:
There is so much I already love about the designs:
There is so much I already love about the designs:
I just want a tranq gun, where do I sign up for that
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
what's a zootopia
Red The Hunter
Member
The beginning of a new generation of furries
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
So I watched it, you know what, I already like it more than Inside Out.
Fuck Inside Out - easily stupid "single concept characters attempted to look deep because we have pathos"
Fuck Inside Out - easily stupid "single concept characters attempted to look deep because we have pathos"
ColtraineGF
Member
I think we're all silly and just want a new funny animal movie to get the kids hooked onto.
They sure ain't buying the platinum edition of Robin Hood, so.
They sure ain't buying the platinum edition of Robin Hood, so.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
The character modeling in Zootopia looks really exceptional to me. It's a great balance between actual detail and the overly stylized, abstract Dreamworks look.
But then, based on the teaser, I suspect it is because the film wants to evoke authentic animals. Since the behavior and traits of real life animals is a plot point.
But then, based on the teaser, I suspect it is because the film wants to evoke authentic animals. Since the behavior and traits of real life animals is a plot point.
Looking forward to Zootopia. Last decent anthro films have been... Kung Fu Panda? (Which I love too)
Nick looks a bit bland, but hopefully Jason Bateman can pull off some subtle comedy traits and pull it all together.
Edit: May as well add artwork whilst I'm here too. Sorry in advance.
Nick looks a bit bland, but hopefully Jason Bateman can pull off some subtle comedy traits and pull it all together.
Edit: May as well add artwork whilst I'm here too. Sorry in advance.
shysaursoft
Member
I don't think they meant to imply the movie was going to act as some kind of brainwashing - just that it will act as a catalyst for a lot of kids, like certain movies or comics did for us.
Kids will see a confident anthro animal and, like all humans, there is the chance they will imprint, or become attracted to (not talking sexually) what that character represents. Or, some kids will see the world of Zootopia and go 'huh, that's super-neat, I like that' and start doodling their own characters, making up stories, or pretending they live there.
But, we can't ignore the fact that young kids exposed to certain kinds of ideas and media, before they're equipped with the tools or rational to examine it from a larger context, will imprint on things or be influenced by things.
Everyone's personality is altered by society at large, and those around them. Religion, nationalism, patriotism, even language - those are all ideas people are (and I'm using the word loosely here) "brainwashed" with. That's memetics for ya.
I think as for Zootopia though - I love the caracter designs, I just hope the plot isn't as generic as the synopsis makes it sound.
In the animal city of Zootopia, a fast-talking fox who's trying to make it big goes on the run when he's framed for a crime he didn't commit. Zootopia's top cop, a self-righteous rabbit, is hot on his tail, but when both become targets of a conspiracy, they're forced to team up and discover even natural enemies can become best friends.
To me, that's... reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaly bland, and pretty cliche. But, it might be interesting depending on what happens in the smaller details.
I think you're projecting quite a bit here. I never once saw Inside Out being marketed as "deep". It's an interesting idea they're playing with, not entirely unique, but still fun to see in a big-budget movie. And since it's the director of Up, there might be a lot of real feels in the movie, which will be good for the gestalt. After all, Earth only needs so many Paul Blart Mall Cop movies before someone's going to shoot someone.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I almost wonder if Zootopia will be "generic" in plot to serve as a reintroduction to pure talking animals from Disney. It's funny, yet a bit weird, that the teaser even goes out of its way to define the term anthropomorphic.
But Disney, while people associate them with funny animals, really hasn't done much like that since Chicken Little. Even Pixar films like Finding Nemo take place in a "normal" world that just happens to have some talking animals. Nothing like a pure funny animal universe.
But Disney, while people associate them with funny animals, really hasn't done much like that since Chicken Little. Even Pixar films like Finding Nemo take place in a "normal" world that just happens to have some talking animals. Nothing like a pure funny animal universe.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Nah I'm more angry at the already unprecedented praise it will get (merely for being a pixar movie even). The concept isn't unique yeah, but it feels like the whole thing is shallow. I already hate the character designs.
And well, personally I feel Up is overrated and relies so much on pathos on its terrible story. The first segment is emotional but then afterwards you're followed with a resounding "wah" to the plot as the characters meander on something so pointless especially with a god-so-annoying character (the boy scout kid).
Yeah sorry for the rant.