To this day its my biggest musical disappointment ever. I had listened to doggystyle till the words on the side of the cassette had worn off. 6 months, every single day, on the way to school, during school, on the way home, in my room. I devoured that album. Months before doggfather, I was having dreams about buying it. Yes dreams, more than one. Many. I nearly had a fucking panic attack when I finally got my hands on it. I cracked it open, nearly snapping the case as I tried to get the stickers off. Put it in the Discman...and ...what...what the fuck is this...ok next song...what the fuck...next song...what..what! WHAT IS HAPPENING!??!!?! But there was no anger, just profound sadness and disappointment.
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GAF-Hop |OT4| At that Das EFX concert, I riggity realized that I liggity love you
- Thread starter Macca
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To this day its my biggest musical disappointment ever. I had listened to doggystyle till the words on the side of the cassette had worn off. 6 months, every single day, on the way to school, during school, on the way home, in my room. I devoured that album. Months before doggfather, I was having dreams about buying it. Yes dreams, more than one. Many. I nearly had a fucking panic attack when I finally got my hands on it. I cracked it open, nearly snapping the case as I tried to get the stickers off. Put it in the Discman...and ...what...what the fuck is this...ok next song...what the fuck...next song...what..what! WHAT IS HAPPENING!??!!?! But there was no anger, just profound sadness and disappointment.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Bjork co-produced Earth Intruders
Beck song was ok
and The Rapture are elctro-rock that use a lot of drum and bass...
so again he really hasn't ventured so far out of his element too often nor with tons of success.. so you come on now..
PhoenixDark
Banned
You must be trolling. Don't come to Detroit, fam
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Yeah I actually threw the album away... kind of regret it. I should have sold it
The Return of
Banned
Isn't Missy a producer? She's honestly the first that popped up into my head when I think female producer.
She is, but chances are timbo has his fingers all over her production.
Glass Rebel
Member
There's no problem.
I didn't catch your edit but it's still wrong to call Dilla a "samples and drums man" when there was so much more to how he did it. Listen to some of his beats, look up the samples, read up on him. When it came to using an MPC to flip a sample, he was the best that did it. Some stuff is mindblowing, like the Rick James sample used for Common's Dooinit.
Holla. Awful stuff, truly.
Dilla was much more of an artist than timbo ever dreamed of being.
PhoenixDark
Banned
It also needs to be pointed out that Dilla played multiple instruments and re-created and re-arranged many of the samples he used.
Jo Shishido's Cheeks
Member
That she did, but she credits Tim with the "idea" and regardless of her involvement it has his hands all over it and it sounds a world away from Big Pimpin'. Does the fact it was co-produced somehow make it illegitimate?
The Beck song is very left-field for predominantly a hip-hop producer and sounds nothing like hip-hop, irrespective of whether you happen to like it or not.
The Rapture might have prominent drums and even beat-boxing but shit some of Lana Del Rey's album does too and even features scratched in samples. This doesn't mean the track sounds like anything he crafted for Aaliyah or Missy so I'd argue it is a pretty big jump from Get Ur Freak On or whatever
You must not be able to read any of my further posts where I admitted I could've phrased that better, fam
You're right, I spoke out of turn regarding Dilla he was obviously beastly in how he used his samples and I didn't mean to belittle that in anyway.
The Common sample is nuts and one that I was thinking of earlier!
Speaking of which, do you know the sample he used for Let's Ride by Q-Tip? That beat was always so crazy to me.
The Return of
Banned
true that true that.
I'm looking back now and maybe I missed impressions but what yall think of 8ball mixtape?
I thought it started off with a bang, got really repetitive with endless drumma boy beats, and then got a little more interesting towards the end. It's a good solid ignorant rap album.
Glass Rebel
Member
It's all good man.
You mean Joe Pass - Giant Steps? And I agree, that beat is dope.
I'm on my phone atm but www.whosampled.com is usually a good source. If you have the time, look up the samples he used on Donuts, my mind was blown.
Edit: Madlib is also almost equally sick in this regard. He's more into loops than Dilla was but still, some absolutely stunning work if you keep in mind that he does a lot of his stuff on an Roland SP-303/404.
Jo Shishido's Cheeks
Member
That's it, Giant Steps! It's just the tiniest portion that he used too!
Man I'm not trolling at all but this is the description on the Joe Pass YouTube video I've got playing:
Joe Pass is a Master of Jazz. I don't hate on other types of music, but this is true art. It does not take much to sample a couple licks of this song, but it takes more talent to actually compose the entire thing.
Which is damn hilarious considering what we've just been talking about.
I actually didn't know about that site nor have I delved that heavily into Madlib so looks like I'm about to be very busy
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
Doesn't matter. either way, dilla is fucking dope and is hiphop, and his beats are a testament to it, whether sampled or recreated. You don't really have to defend his production. Anyone who hates on sampling that listens to hiphop, is a fucking idiot. Hiphop beats started from sampling, and that is the essence of it. I will take a beat with a dope ass sample over some instrumentation any fucking day.
with that said, Timbo samples too.
I also wanna make a mixtape using some of Dilla's unused beats....he got so much heat that never got put to use....so unfortunate.
Good use of sampling is truly amazing. When someone can take another song and flip it, turn it into someone entirely new, it's remarkable. I always used to love pointing out to the dipshit grunge and alt rock fans who bitched about sampling in hip hop that many of their favorite artists did covers of other songs in which they didn't change a single fucking lyric or chord.
What I don't like is the lazy ass sampling where they just grab a vocal, speed it up chipmunk style, and stick it on the hook with no attempt to make it blend in.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
Here's my thing....I dont give a shit HOW they flip a sample....the way I look at it, if a beat is dope, its dope. Whether they just took a loop and did nothing to it, or if they chopped something up and flipped it around and made thier own thing, or if they recreated samples using instruments (DRE does this alot) or if they took a sample and built the song around it with instruments/other shit (Ye likes to do this sometimes)
As long as it comes out sounding dope...cause in the end, it's about how it sounds as the final product. The skill level of how to create it is pointless if the shit isnt dope, or if it's dope but not something I wanna play over and over.
There are many beats, where it's just a straight loop...BUT that shit works, and is perfect as it is.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
Jo Shishido's Cheeks
Member
It's crazy how much mileage some producers get out of their samples though, that's what really fascinates me in a lot of respects. Like the Dilla sample above or like this Timbaland one (because yes of course he samples, I wasn't trying to prove otherwise) where a whole beat is built around a single sampled chord.
Listen to the Nas track up until the drums drop and then listen to how simple and seemingly insignificant the sample is:
Short Sample
Listen to the Nas track up until the drums drop and then listen to how simple and seemingly insignificant the sample is:
Short Sample
I was hoping this would be the royce track before I clicked it. Royce is such an underrated MC.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
Yea...but that beat wack to me. If I heard that, and I was sitting next to timbo and he was giving me a beat to choose from, I'd pass and ask to play the next one.
ALso, I'd have used that samples from that song WAY different and Better...In fact, I might go attempt that now.
http://www.whosampled.com/sample/view/317/Beanie Sigel-The Truth_Graham Nash-Chicago/
Now if that's played for me, I'd jump on it quick. no questions asked. Kanye basically did nothing to this except add a lil guitar in it and added drums (obviously). But it WORKS. It's perfect as it is.
I love this track, but the royce one is better imo.
and the reason I say it, is, Atmosphere's is more specific and personal to his situations, where as Royce's is more relate-able to anyone.
Glass Rebel
Member
I'm totally okay with straight loops or even one-shots. Any producer worth his money knows how to make the best out of a sample. Of course you can chop up a sample beyond recognition but who gives a fuck if it sounds like shit? As a good producer you just have to be aware of your tools and what you can do with them. RZA sampled some cartoon theme (Underdog I think?) on 36 Chambers and it sounded dope but for Wu Tang Forever he used a lot of live instrumentation (he hummed the melody of Reunited to violinists because he didn't know shit about music theory) and it still sounded dope.
Edit: Hell yeah, Kanye is (was?) great at adding his own little twist to a sample to make it sound perfect. Common's Be instantly comes to mind, fantastic beat.
Edit: Hell yeah, Kanye is (was?) great at adding his own little twist to a sample to make it sound perfect. Common's Be instantly comes to mind, fantastic beat.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
That's the beauty of hiphop beats. ANYONE can make a dope beat. Doesn't matter how much money you got. That is the essence of how hiphop started, and that's the beauty of it. Kanye with his millions can make a dope track.....but Little jimmy on 42nd street can Make a beat that's doper in his apartment with the right sample.
You can't do that with most Popular music genres (not counting any eletronic genres).
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
The fact that it was co-produced by the artist of that certain "genre" does make it suspect. For the fact that she can basically tell him exactly how to make it for to fit her target..
And most of his songs sound different than Big Pimpin...
Many of producers has shat out quasi rock tracks.. doesn't make them good.
And what is up with you comparing his beats to something he did for different people.. Just because it doesn't sound like Try Again doesn't mean it far from his hip-hoppy roots.
Tim is a beast, and found a way to bring hip-hop insipred beats to the world via different genres but they are all just that.. hip-hop insipred beats, because that is what kind of musician he is..
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
Beat production is my shit, I can discuss this shit all day and forever.
Jo Shishido's Cheeks
Member
But again whether they are 'good' or not doesn't negate the fact that there is a great deal of range between the two different styles. I used his other beats as a comparison to show that the beats I posted weren't grounded in his 'usual' R&B/Hip-Hop style. To go back to the Beck track, that and Hey Papi by Jay-Z were made in the same year and are miles apart in every way, which surely goes toward proving that everything he made was not reminiscent of his Hip-Hop beats.
You're right in the sense that he did usher in Hip-Hop sounding motifs to various genres but he then moved beyond and was able to create works in and of themselves with no obvious genre leanings.
Something like this may have similarities to his Hip-Hop work (at a stretch)
Virginia Williams - Without You
but then something like this truly does not sound like a 'Hip-Hop inspired beat' in a similar vein to his previous work
Duran Duran - Skin Divers
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
the thing about hip hop beats, samples can be taken from anywhere, and if done right, can be dope. like glass rebel was saying....rza took a small part from a cartoon theme.....underdog...and made it into one of the most classic hiphop beats ever.
whether just jacking a sample, or flipping it, or instruments, whatever, in the end, it's all about the end product. ya dig.
Glass Rebel
Member
Haha yeah, it's me and my brother's main topic. Just listening to beats and samples and talking about them.
We had a pretty long discussion recently on how most people know Dilla because of his soul samples and have never heard the synth stuff, whick is tragic because it's some of his best work.
I love it when producers use obscure samples too. I mean, Lupe's Kick, Push sampled some Hawaiian chick which is a pretty weird source but then there's guys like Oh No who digged some Turkish acid funk or Doom who sampled Star Blazers or Sesame Street. So dope.
Just goes to show how versatile this genre is when you can turn a scene from an old TV-show into a beat.
Jo Shishido's Cheeks
Member
Oh no doubt, no doubt but regardless of a samples source whatever Hip-Hop track it ends up in is always by default going to sound like a Hip-Hop song of course. Despite samples being flipped in whichever way, the end result will always have those familiar characteristics.
What I was pointing out was that when Timbaland wasn't producing Hip-Hop, he increasingly moved away from a Hip-Hop influence and was able to leave those genre trappings behind and create work far different to what he had made prior, demonstrating a range far greater than Dilla, RZA or anybody else who primarily made Hip-Hop.
Funnily enough Tim sampled the Underdog theme too!
Here's another obscure TV sample which he made sound great:
The Prisoner TV Show sample
Glass Rebel
Member
I like it but Roc just doesn't work on this beat tbh.
New Video: Hodgy Beats, Tyler, the creator - NY (Ned Flander)
Both come correct, but Hodgy kills it. I'm getting hyped for this upcoming group tape.
e: What the hell is Tyler talking about?
Both come correct, but Hodgy kills it. I'm getting hyped for this upcoming group tape.
e: What the hell is Tyler talking about?
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
Yea I see what you saying, Tim is a beast. Like I said, he from my area, but.....he'd be at the bottom of my top 5 hiphop producers, if is even in my top 5 (dont know yet, havent really thought about it). One of my most favorite beats by him is the one he did for the Game on his first album...that shit go hard.
with that said, a dude who has really been impressing the shit out of me is Swiss....I mean swiss was always pretty damn good..... but I still can't believe he made the first half of the "murder to excellence" beat.
njean777
Member
IDK why, but I can just not take any of the odd future gang serious at all, its all weird dumb lines with nothing relevant to say imo.
You're too old.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
I kinda tune them out and listen to their beats...they got so many good beats.
I felt Eminem's production was hella weak. Eminem show was OK production wise, for me, it was more of what he added with his vocals that helped elevate most of the tracks. But if I heard any other rapper on most of those beats....i'd have been like whatever...except for like..."till I collapse"
Yeah, I can agree. I'm on and off with them. 'Rella' put them back on for me, and this latest track doesn't add to the hype, but it doesn't kill it either.
I'm basically in OF for the characters at this point. I've never dug any of their production. Aside from a few Left Brain cuts.
The Return of
Banned
you hear hodgy's last tape? You might enjoy that more.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
Yonkers was fucking sick. and there were some other gems on tyler's album.
that new hodgy beats mixtape has SICK beats.
dat ass by earl is my shit mostly cause of the beat.
And then the Left brain beats.....
they got lots of heat beatwise.
I actually think the majority of their beats sound cheap/terrible. I did like the new hodgy tape though.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
the "cheap, terrible" sound to you, instead to me makes it sound raw/fresh which is why I like it. Almost Old Wu-Esque.
Yeah, Goblin was pretty bad on the production side of it, well, the whole thing was pretty bad actually.
njean777
Member
Yeah I need to check it out, I heard it was good, but if it is anything like Goblin I wont like it.
I like TDE are they hip to the kids?
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