Support NeoGAF

[enzo_gt]

Music videos are so cheap to shoot now. It seems like if you're going to have a shitty song the least you can do is make a decent music video...

You know, I can't even understand how Missy Elliot and others were spending a milli plus on music videos. That shit makes no sense to me economically.

I didn't really know that people were making serious money out of battling. That's interesting and I wonder how it works. To me, or at least with the internet it seems like battle rap is a lot more prominent than it used to be.

They're not making SERIOUS money, there's probably a handful of maybe 5 battle rappers that are making enough to live off of solely battle rap + merchandising. For the past year there was a huge debate over if Lux deserved to make $40k for a battle or not, and when he finally got it, the league that hosted the battle folded and didn't even pay him in full. It's at a transition point ATM that all depends on sponsors.

Battle rap has definitely blown up, mostly because all of everyone's favourite rappers are into it and the corporate sponsors are looking into it as well (IMO after Diddy & Ciroc sponsored Summer Madness 2, it exploded). Snoop Dogg is having his own event at the upcoming BET awards, Total Slaughter is looking into doing another season, Smack is signing multi-season deals with BET for UFF etc. You have shit like Drake and Nelly betting over Hitman Holla vs. Hollow Da Don, Busta, Q-Tip, Fabulous, etc. coming out to every event, Lupe arguing with Dizaster on twitter every day of the week, Ebro doing hour long interviews on battle rap radio stations, Ab-Soul battling Daylyt on his album, etc.

 

[big ander]

Chuuwee's Cool World is alright. Realized after listening to it and part of CMK that I'd kinda forgotten...how often he calls people "gay" and "fag"? Like, it's almost at ofwg levels in some songs. for some reason that didn't bother me 2 years ago but it's a bit off-putting now. title track and Lemme Ride and Cool Fire are great songs tho

The long-ish run time for Race Music is tolerable because the album is so good.

It's great but I think it's nearly insurmountably dense and rich at the same time. I listened in one go (had the time cause it was laundry day) and it was exhausting, at the same time felt like I needed to go back into it again right away. I did just that for 5-6 songs and felt like I was already getting to understand each individual song better. Seems like the kind of record that I'll love more and more with each listen as I come to understand it but it'll take time. Luckily it's catchy enough on first go to make that not a daunting proposition

 

[Cheddahz]

looks like the heems album is coming out in november

 

[PBY]

Chuuwee's Cool World is alright. Realized after listening to it and part of CMK that I'd kinda forgotten...how often he calls people "gay" and "fag"? Like, it's almost at ofwg levels in some songs. for some reason that didn't bother me 2 years ago but it's a bit off-putting now. title track and Lemme Ride and Cool Fire are great songs tho

Man. I totally agree. Really off-putting, and just straight up offensive.

It's slowly disappearing from rap though.

 

[enzo_gt]

Chuuwee's Cool World is alright. Realized after listening to it and part of CMK that I'd kinda forgotten...how often he calls people "gay" and "fag"? Like, it's almost at ofwg levels in some songs. for some reason that didn't bother me 2 years ago but it's a bit off-putting now. title track and Lemme Ride and Cool Fire are great songs tho

I kind of agree, "faggot" especially just sounds corny or like it's from another era now, TBH. I've always thought it was a petty shot or filler, but it's just kind of corny now.

 

[Esch]

TBH i haven't heard a major rap release say faggot in a long, long time. And to think tracks like this were fair game less than ten years ago. Universally agreed upon as offensive, I think, but tolerated.

 

[CRS]

Man. I totally agree. Really off-putting, and just straight up offensive.

It's slowly disappearing from rap though.

Yep, it's become pretty rare so when I do hear it for the first time in a verse, it's a lot more apparent.

 

[Snuggles]

Yeah at this point it basically comes off either ignorant or corny edgy like young Odd Future.

Just need dudes like Young Thug to keep coming and subvert that expectation of masculinity in the genre. You can be trill as fuck but also paint your nails if you want to.

 

[enzo_gt]

I still think Thug is a gamechanger if he comes out as gay. He's already breaking a lot of molds I feel though.

EDIT: Joell breaks down why Bobby Shmurda is refresher pretty well.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

TBH i haven't heard a major rap release say faggot in a long, long time. And to think tracks like this were fair game less than ten years ago. Universally agreed upon as offensive, I think, but tolerated.

Yikes. This is like grade-A ammunition for the cRap music folks.

We should prolly bury this track in the backyard and agree to never speak of it in public. For the good of the genre.

 

[PhoenixDark]

TBH i haven't heard a major rap release say faggot in a long, long time. And to think tracks like this were fair game less than ten years ago. Universally agreed upon as offensive, I think, but tolerated.

The sheer ignorance of that track just makes me crack up,

 

[Esch]

The sheer ignorance of that track just makes me crack up,

Plus the beat is

with them gunshots, brehs

EDIT: It's clearly offensive, but not in an explicitly anti gay way like a "Boom Bye Bye". The track just seems like it's about beating dudes up and killing someone, standard Sean Price/Styles material. It's just ridiculously ignorant to make the word 'faggot' the kicker in your hook.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Styles P has an impressive ability to break his themes down to their most simple root. Kill that f*g, I get high, they won't let me out (of prison), I'm just trying to get paid, I know things, etc.

Dude is like the basal reader of hip hop. But he's dope tho.

 

[cb1115]

Cyhi said faggot (god I hate even typing that word) on Black Hystori Project once or twice and it really threw me off.

i get bummed out when i hear it but it does seem like it's slowly going away.

 

[big ander]

I kind of agree, "faggot" especially just sounds corny or like it's from another era now, TBH. I've always thought it was a petty shot or filler, but it's just kind of corny now.

I think this is mainly what it is for me too. like, I'm more than prepared to listen to rap and have to recognize that the artists are playing partial characters, they're gonna say offensive and ridiculous stuff, so on. rap's still gonna be misogynist and violent in a lot of places, that's what makes it interesting/what allows artists the genre to tell the stories they tell. but still using "faggot" or "gay" as filler insults in 2014 is some corny bullshit. peter an cb you're right it's def disappearing and I guess I've been taking that for granted because I didn't notice til I heard this chuuwee tape and got thrown for a loop.
thank the lord for young thug

 

[The Artful Dodger]

TBH i haven't heard a major rap release say faggot in a long, long time. And to think tracks like this were fair game less than ten years ago. Universally agreed upon as offensive, I think, but tolerated.

It's crazy to imagine the level of outrage DMX's Where the Hood At? would trigger nowadays.

 

[enzo_gt]

Does Em use the word on MMLP2? I feel he still does. He will forever get a pass for it, as will any other artist that envelops themselves in that sort of ultra-disrespectful or im-cool-because-i-give-no-fucks kind of image. That creative license to do whatever.

 

[Complex Shadow]

TBH i haven't heard a major rap release say faggot in a long, long time. And to think tracks like this were fair game less than ten years ago. Universally agreed upon as offensive, I think, but tolerated.

How long ago was born sinner?

 

[HiResDes]

Yall are too funny listening to people rap about murder and drug trafficking and only caring about the homophobic slurs they use.

Also acting like a 70 minute run time is a good excuse to put off listening to something as monumental as Race Music is bullshit. It's really not even that in comparison to most full length retail albums.

 

[siddx]

Yall are too funny listening to people rap about murder and drug trafficking and only caring about the homophobic slurs they use.

Also acting like a 70 minute run time is a good excuse to put off listening to something as monumental as Race Music is bullshit. It's really not even that in comparison to most full length retail albums.

Yeah sorry but getting upset about gay slurs in a music form that is filled with scarface fantasies of murder and hate is ridiculous. Someone rapping about killing people, treating women like shit, dealing crack, and dropping nigga 8000 times a song is the jam. But throw in a fag and suddenly you're a PC warrior?

 

[big ander]

Looooool @ "only caring about the homophobic slurs," as if specifically addressing them means I haven't thoroughly thought about how violent fantasies are used in rap too

Too late to get more in-depth than this but I think it should be clear how fantasy rapping about murder where it's contextually clear that the story's drama is blatantly different from a dude rapping about driving to get gas needing to talk about how other rappers is "gay fags". it's the difference between a gruesome kill in a horror movie and some teen comedy american pie hellspawn thinking it's hilarious to have a bro-y character call another "faggot"

And the Race Music run time isn't supposed to be a "good" excuse, just an excuse. I listen to a fair shitton of music and every time I'd think about playing that I'd think "I don't feel like dedicating 70m right now." just the facts. I don't really give a shit when I discovered it, only glad I did. don't see why it matters, not like it makes my enjoyment of it less authentic

 

[Detox]

Nas rapping one love over sky's the limit beat


Dope as fuck.

 

[FiggyCal]

TBH i haven't heard a major rap release say faggot in a long, long time. And to think tracks like this were fair game less than ten years ago. Universally agreed upon as offensive, I think, but tolerated.

Is Born Sinner not considered a major release?

Nas rapping one love over sky's the limit beat


Dope as fuck.

He also did an arrangement of It Ain't Hard to Tell I hadn't heard before, using the chorus of Human Nature and MJ's voice as a part of the sampling now. It's probably not new, but it's awesome.

 

[DeadTsar]

Sooo ready for Days before Rodeo

http://instagram.com/p/rfdcjFhUiO/

 

[HiResDes]

Homophobia is still very alive and well in hip hop especially in the drill and trap movements. Faggot has simply been replaced with other derogatory terms like fuckboi and fufu

 

[The Return of]

Homophobia is still very alive and well in hip hop especially in the drill and trap movements. Faggot has simply been replaced with other derogatory terms like fuckboi and fufu

I'm not sure if you are implying it or not but fuckboi has absolutely nothing to do with faggot/homophobia

 

[Esch]

Lol @ y'all asking me about Born Sinner like I remember anything from that bore fest

Yall are too funny listening to people rap about murder and drug trafficking and only caring about the homophobic slurs they use.

It's not like we haven't thought about these other things.. but they can often be excused under things like artistic license, storytelling etc.

 

[HiResDes]

I'm not sure if you are implying it or not but fuckboi has absolutely nothing to do with faggot/homophobia

The terms can be used interchangeably. The modern use of faggot is a blanket term used to describe anyone that's viewed as being soft, effeminate, or weird. Fuckboi is a synonym of the same thing.

 

[JohnDoe]

The terms can be used interchangeably. The modern use of faggot is a blanket term used to describe anyone that's viewed as being soft, effeminate, or weird. Fuckboi is a synonym of the same thing.

Yep. Maybe we're not quite there yet but fuckboi will be the new "faggot".

 

[DominoKid]

yeah it aint like rappers are all enlightened and tolerant now. they just gave up on saying faggot (for the most part) and came up w/ different shit.

 

[The Return of]

Yep. Maybe we're not quite there yet but fuckboi will be the new "faggot".

No it won't. Fuckboi is super old at this point and if it hasn't caught on now, it never will.

 

[The Return of]

yeah it aint like rappers are all enlightened and tolerant now.

But Atlanta rappers run the rap game now

 

[siddx]

Lol @ y'all asking me about Born Sinner like I remember anything from that bore fest

It's not like we haven't thought about these other things.. but they can often be excused under things like artistic license, storytelling etc.

I think the bigger issue is the hypocrisy of getting upset over the use of faggot while not giving a single fuck when rappers use nigga and bitch as a slur in every other line. Both those words are used inextremely negative contexts constantly. I used to feel weird about rappers using fag in this era but I realized I sounded like a hypocritical idiot when I was still rapping along to all the other hateful shit rappers say. In the end rap has always been that genre that doesn't follow the rules and crosses the line. It's why I fell in love with it in the first place 24 years ago.

 

[HiResDes]

Touche

 

[JohnDoe]

@siddx Criticizing one aspect of something doesn't mean you are ignoring/condoning other aspects of it. And as far as nigga goes, the criticism might be valid but there's also people who'd say it goes under reappropriation/reclaiming. Using misogynist and homophobic slurs? Not so much the same thing.

As far as the gangsta rap shit goes, that's a more complex subject. But like I said, criticizing one thing doesn't mean you don't give a shit about another. There's plenty of people criticizing all those aspects. The racial slurs, the misogynist ones and the homophobic ones. There's also a shitload of people criticizing the gangsta raps...
I think the biggest hypocrisy the general public displays in its criticism for rap is that they almost only criticize rap for those things even though other genres do the same shit... lot of racism going on there.

 

[MoodyFog]

Does Em use the word on MMLP2? I feel he still does. He will forever get a pass for it, as will any other artist that envelops themselves in that sort of ultra-disrespectful or im-cool-because-i-give-no-fucks kind of image. That creative license to do whatever.

"I'll still be able to break a motha-fuckin' table
Over the back of a couple of faggots and crack it in half"

On rap god, and probably other tracks.

 

[Esch]

I think the bigger issue is the hypocrisy of getting upset over the use of faggot while not giving a single fuck when rappers use nigga and bitch as a slur in every other line. Both those words are used inextremely negative contexts constantly. I used to feel weird about rappers using fag in this era but I realized I sounded like a hypocritical idiot when I was still rapping along to all the other hateful shit rappers say. In the end rap has always been that genre that doesn't follow the rules and crosses the line. It's why I fell in love with it in the first place 24 years ago.

It may not seem like it, but bitch has a limited shelf life too. Word is on notice. It's really the next one up for the chopping block. Now nigga? That one's more complex due to the history, the usage etc. I'm not so sure about the end of that one.

 

[JohnDoe]

Eminem only gets a pass for using faggot for being white tbh.
Just look at Eminem and Jonah Hill getting away with it. If a black actor did that, Hollywood would blacklist his ass worse than they did Chappelle.
Kobe does it and everybody is like "it's that black culture y'all". FOH

 

[siddx]

It may not seem like it, but bitch has a limited shelf life too. Word is on notice. It's really the next one up for the chopping block. Now nigga? That one's more complex due to the history, the usage etc. I'm not so sure about the end of that one.

I get that sense too and it makes me sad. I love the word bitch and probably only use it to describe an awful no good unscrupulous lying shitty woman about 5% of the time. The rest of the time it's used to make an average sentence more amusing. "This sandwich is dry as fuck, someone put some mayo on this bitch".

 

[PhoenixDark]

Personally I usually don't care if faggot is said in music. What bothers me moreso are intent and themes: yes I know faggot is always a gay slur, but my point is that I'm moreso turned off by explicit and extended homophobic shit. Like Eminem going too far to the point where it's just ridiculous. On the flip side he says it once on his new album and it turned me off even more because I felt like dude, really? In 2014 as 40+ year old man? Then you have ignorant shit like DMX who is less explicit but more offensive with his violent "I'll beat your ass and won't shake your hand if you're gay" rhetoric.

Same with misogyny. Bitch/cunt/etc doesn't bother me unless it becomes an obsession or theme. Loyal isn't a super graphic song but the intent and themes are pretty damn ugly. Or Song Cry where Jay admits to fucking other women, but it shouldn't count since they meant nothing to him (women as objects). Or Black Girl Lost. You can find many songs more explicit than all three of those songs but they don't really offend due to simply being outrageous (see: Bridgette by The DOC).

 

[Esch]

Or Treat Her Like a Prostitute by Slick Rick.

 

[siddx]

Yeah intent is a big thing for me. I don't subscribe to that blanket "never say the word ever" point of view, it just makes the word more poisonous and gives it more power. It's like that cliche that the more you tell someone they cant do something the more they want to. The hate that gave birth to many of these words is very much still around, but it most certainly isn't what fuels every single instance where those words are used. Focusing our ire and disapproval on the people who say those words from a genuine place of hatred is far more useful (but difficult) than having a fit every time someone makes an off color joke or makes a poorly thought out comment. But that's who PC warriors focus on because they are the easy targets to chide and yell at because trying to confront someone who is genuinely racist and bigoted is a scary and ugly thing. I had a confrontation with a skinhead and that shit was no joke, it was intense and had the potential to get dangerous. Getting on someone's ass for making a bad joke is a far easier way to feel good about yourself because that person is going to actually care about not being a bigot.

 

[JohnDoe]

Intent, PC warriors?

Aight.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Intent, PC warriors?

Aight.

How is it being a PC warrior to only take pause from extremely ignorant themes or the intentional objectifation of women? If I was a PC warrior I'd be complaining about every time someone said bitch, fag, etc.

 

[JohnDoe]

How is it being a PC warrior to only take pause from extremely ignorant themes or the intentional objectifation of women? If I was a PC warrior I'd be complaining about every time someone said bitch, fag, etc.

No, my post was like a poorly worded version of "we using those terms now?"

 

[MadSkillzBahamut]

No, my post was like a poorly worded version of "we using those terms now?"

What's wrong with "intent", that's just like... a word in English.

 

[Rastafarian42]

Sooo ready for Days before Rodeo

http://instagram.com/p/rfdcjFhUiO/

Does it have a release date ?

 

[PlayDat]

Violence and other kinds of criminal activity are okay with me in any medium since it's all fictional. I don't even really care about tone that much. I tend to avoid the most gratuitous stuff, not because I have some moral objection to it, but because those things just aren't as interesting. They're using the extreme violence only for shock value and to cover up the fact that there isn't much depth to whatever song, movie, or whatever piece of entertainment it is.

Homophobia and misogyny are different since when we hear it in music or see it on screen, it perpetuates the culture of discrimination, harassment, and violence that real people have to deal with. No, it's not Styles P or any rapper's fault if you listen to one of their songs then go on to commit some sort of hate crime nor is it any artists fault if you kill someone. However, using your music to denigrate a historically disadvantaged group of people is a lot more harmful than a generic "I'm gonna kill a bunch of people" song because the former upholds the power structure that affects real people.

JohnDoe dropping truth bombs all over this page. The whole "Why do you care about X thing when Y is just as bad?" response is a common silencing tactic used to prevent any serious discussion that could have the chance to result in real change. We care about misogyny too, it's just that sometimes you'd like to focus on a single issue so that the more subtle aspects of it get the attention they deserve.

On that note I do feel that we're nearing a turning point on the prevalence of the word "bitch" in rap music. There was the fake news story about Jay-Z pledging to quit using the word after his daughter was born. When the truth came out that he never really made this promise, I recall there being some people asking him to consider dropping the word for real.

John, I do disagree on one thing though. Eminem never got a pass for his homophobia. GLAAD came after him pretty hard in the early 2000s. It's why his performance with Elton John was such big news.

 

[Esch]

Yeah people never really gave eminem a pass for being a disgusting shit bag. I mean it probably would have been much worse if he was black (can you imagine the articles indicting African American culture if he was ? Lmao) but he was a pretty salient target throughout the 00s. He made guys like Three Six and 50 Cent pretty tame in comparison.

 

[FiggyCal]

Intent, PC warriors?

Aight.

Being a PC warrior is no joke. One of the most frustrating criticisms I've ever heard of rap was from a female who took offense to one of Kanye's lyrics: "I'd rather be a dick than a swallower" off of Yeezus because it "slut shamed" women. People will actively look out for things to be offended by. Sometimes it doesn't even make sense.