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GAF-Hop |OTXV| Afterlife

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E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
illadelph said:
the Doctor lowkey went the fuck in on Relapse
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low low key but I've always agreed. I think the production on The Refill was pretty dope as well.

Opinions of Relapse vary a bit between Em stans and otherwise too. Em stans threw it in the bushes quick but it had some of the most interesting production, hooks and songs Em has had in a minute.
 
C

Courage

Member
Vorheez, why are you ascribing so much significance to the notion that someone is one of the 'greatest.' I don't think anyone here would deny that he's one of the most influential and important figures in rap. But if we're purely evaluating his music it all boils down to personal taste so trying to understand why someone may not fuck with his style or why they might not value him so highly seems like a futile exercise.
 
V

Vorheez

Member
ViewtifulJC said:
that figures
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Nice.

Keep doin' you breh.

Courage said:
Vorheez, why are you ascribing so much significance to the notion that someone is one of the 'greatest.' I don't think anyone here would deny that he's one of the most influential and important figures in rap. But if we're purely evaluating his music it all boils down to personal taste so trying to understand why someone may not fuck with his style or why they might not value him so highly seems like a futile exercise.
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Yeah, I hear you. I don't know, I guess I was just trying to get some meaningful discussion going outside of the issues I pointed out. That was most futile of all, clearly. I'm gonna leave it alone.
 
H

HiResDes

Member
Talent wise Eminem is definitely at the top in terms of technique, but he doesn't have a single album that holds up as well as the any of the other legend's opuses i.e., Illmatic, Ready to Die, Liquid Swords, Reasonable Doubt, Black on Both Sides, GKMC, Death Certificate, All Eyez On Me, etc.
 
P

Psychological Intellect

Banned
TFW you're in on an inside joke but don't know how many others are in on it too.

As far as my opinion in Eminem? I'm with the opinion that it hasn't aged well. What I mean is that I can't listen to his albums in entirety the same way I can't watch Anime AMVs set to Linkin Park anymore.

Eminem technically,sure is one of the best. Great wordplay but even then post Relapse he's fell off in that regard too mostly because his flow is absolute trash.

He still had some great songs and verses. It's the subject matter that kills it for me. Not even Horror core stuff because I can fuck with it. I still like Kim because of the atmosphere and even like something as relatively recent as Underground off Relapse. He even has songs Rabbit Run or Stan and a few others that are timeless classics to me.

But then he has countless songs,skits,verses that I don't find impressive,amusing or funny in any way, the only reaction I have towards songs like Felch, My Name Is,Brain Damage, etc is cringe. That's it. He doesn't have a single album I can play throughout.

Idk, Eminem's one of the greatest but he isn't too high on the list. Hes in the hall of fame I guess.
 
C

Courage

Member
Vorheez said:
Yeah, I hear you. I don't know, I guess I was just trying to get some meaningful discussion going outside of the issues I pointed out. That was most futile of all, clearly. I'm gonna leave it alone.
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Discussion is fine, but when you frame your argument as 'GOAT or bust' it doesn't seem conducive.
 
Andrew Korenchkin

Andrew Korenchkin

Member
On another interesting note, I do find it interesting that Eminem's albums barely worm their way into a "Top 10 greatest rap albums of all time" list, while something like Illmatic is ALWAYS is in the Top ten, often top five. Always.

But eh, YMMV.
 
B

Bacon

Member
Andrew Korenchkin said:
On another interesting note, I do find it interesting that Eminem's albums barely worm their way into a "Top 10 greatest rap albums of all time" list, while something like Illmatic is ALWAYS is in the Top ten, often top five. Always.

But eh, YMMV.
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I don't think i'm following your point here. Illmatic is unquestionably one of the greatest rap albums of all time
 
Andrew Korenchkin

Andrew Korenchkin

Member
Bacon said:
I don't think i'm following your point here. Illmatic is unquestionably one of the greatest rap albums of all time
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Well High Res noted that most of his stuff hasn't really aged all that well in comparison to the other classics that (with the aside from Black on Both Sides and GKMC which are both fantastic rap albums but usually don't top "greatest rap albums of all time" lists). If you look at many "greatest rap albums of all time lists", both professionally and on personal websites like RYM, albums like Illmatic, Ready To Die, and 36 Chambers are in the Top ten of those lists always, while Eminem's material is much lower on all of those lists. I'm willing to bet that Eminem's early albums would be far higher if it was ten years ago or so.

Not a knock on any of those albums, but it does show that many albums will eventually fade away from time and not be discovered by newer rap fans (Which, IMO, is sometimes a good metric to determine if an album has aged well or aged poorly). I doubt, however, that Illmatic and the like will ever lose interest from newer generations of listeners, kind of like how Led Zeppelin and Dark Side of the Moon keeps on gaining new fans years after its release.
 
V

Vorheez

Member
Andrew Korenchkin said:
On another interesting note, I do find it interesting that Eminem's albums barely worm their way into a "Top 10 greatest rap albums of all time" list, while something like Illmatic is ALWAYS is in the Top ten, often top five. Always.

But eh, YMMV.
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You're getting carried away with what I was saying, I was never questioning the greatness of other artists when I brought this up. Illmatic is one of the greatest albums of all time and would not be challenged as a result of a shift in perspective on Em. I was more or less searching for a collective agreement on how great he really is and where he would be placed NEXT to the greats.

HiResDes said:
Talent wise Eminem is definitely at the top in terms of technique, but he doesn't have a single album that holds up as well as the any of the other legend's opuses i.e., Illmatic, Ready to Die, Liquid Swords, Reasonable Doubt, Black on Both Sides, GKMC, Death Certificate, All Eyez On Me, etc.
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When contrasted with those albums, I can see your point. I guess a good way of looking at it would be: how would this album be interpreted or received if it was released today? The albums you listed would still be mostly adored, while Em's albums are a product of their time. I still think that MMLP and Eminem Show were the best of the bunch though.

Psychological Intellect said:
TFW you're in on an inside joke but don't know how many others are in on it too.

As far as my opinion in Eminem? I'm with the opinion that it hasn't aged well. What I mean is that I can't listen to his albums in entirety the same way I can't watch Anime AMVs set to Linkin Park anymore.

Eminem technically,sure is one of the best. Great wordplay but even then post Relapse he's fell off in that regard too mostly because his flow is absolute trash.

He still had some great songs and verses. It's the subject matter that kills it for me. Not even Horror core stuff because I can fuck with it. I still like Kim because of the atmosphere and even like something as relatively recent as Underground off Relapse. He even has songs Rabbit Run or Stan and a few others that are timeless classics to me.

But then he has countless songs,skits,verses that I don't find impressive,amusing or funny in any way, the only reaction I have towards songs like Felch, My Name Is,Brain Damage, etc is cringe. That's it. He doesn't have a single album I can play throughout.

Idk, Eminem's one of the greatest but he isn't too high on the list. Hes in the hall of fame I guess.
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Good post. Reiterates on what Des said.

Courage said:
Discussion is fine, but when you frame your argument as 'GOAT or bust' it doesn't seem conducive.
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Fair enough. Although my first post was indicative of this, it was not my intention.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Andrew Korenchkin said:
Well High Res noted that most of his stuff hasn't really aged all that well in comparison to the other classics that (with the aside from Black on Both Sides and GKMC which are both fantastic rap albums but usually don't top "greatest rap albums of all time" lists). If you look at many "greatest rap albums of all time lists", both professionally and on personal websites like RYM, albums like Illmatic, Ready To Die, and 36 Chambers are in the Top ten of those lists always, while Eminem's material is much lower on all of those lists. I'm willing to bet that Eminem's early albums would be far higher if it was ten years ago or so.

Not a knock on any of those albums, but it does show that many albums will eventually fade away from time and not be discovered by newer rap fans (Which, IMO, is sometimes a good metric to determine if an album has aged well or aged poorly). I doubt, however, that Illmatic and the like will ever lose interest from newer generations of listeners, kind of like how Led Zeppelin and Dark Side of the Moon keeps on gaining new fans years after its release.
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I'm lost here. Eminem's most acclaimed albums are within a couple years of stuff like Ready To Die.

I guess those albums will eventually stop being discovered by new rap fans but I feel like with the way hip-hop is set up, even in popular culture, there is a precedence for respecting great work from past eras.

GKMC doesn't deserve to be mentioned alongside those other projects quite yet, but I don't disagree that stuff like that, So Far Gone and Take Care will be people's point of reference for classics 10 years from now.
 
Tokubetsu

Tokubetsu

Member
silentcapybara said:
FIFTY GRAND & HELLION PACK +++



LETS GO
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lQ9d5ym.gif
 
M

MuddyDonut

Member
Andrew Korenchkin said:
I guess?!

I dunno, I think Eminem's music is far more compelling as I get older, but I guess I can see where you are coming from. Sometimes, music just doesn't sound that great as you age and you have different issues/areas of your life. I remember being a big fan of guys like The Offspring, but now I find their music to be pretty passe and dull.
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I find it less compelling now. Embarrassing lyrics and drenched in pop culture references that are only present for shock value. Leads to boring songs, boring concepts etc. He has some good shit for sure, but if I remember correctly there are always a handful of songs on every album that are inst-skips.
 
Andrew Korenchkin

Andrew Korenchkin

Member
Listening to The Nature of the Threat by Ras Kass right now....I'm guessing artistic license aside....I'm not sure what he was trying to do.

What is the opinions on Tech N9ne here? It seems this guy gets so much praise, but every time I listen to his music, I get that Juggalo/Nu-Metal vibes from his music, which is basically the plague for me. His technical skills are hard to deny, though.
 
E

Eos

Member
Vorheez said:
You think it's corny/angsty? I think it's funny/passionate.

You don't identify with it, which is ok, but does that make it bad? No. A lot of people seem to get this twisted; they think, "ah shit, this dude is rapping about personal issues I don't relate with, must be trash and anyone who listens to it doesn't understand (insert genre)." It's funny, because you damn well know you got another guy mirroring what you're saying with "all that rappers talk about these days is bitches and money. What happened to real hip hop?" It's the same circular argument. It's childish bullshit.

I don't like TPAB. Not because Kendrick is a bad artist, or because the album is bad, but because I don't identify with the subject matter. I have never lived the life that he talks about in his lyrics; I don't understand the experiences. I can still view the music from an outside perspective as something special, but I won't belittle myself by calling it crap and judging the people who appreciate/enjoy it.
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His rape/violence lyrics are funny and passionate? Yeah I can't relate to those things lmao. Besides, saying you have to identify with the subject matter for you to enjoy it is nonsense. If that was the case, a lot of artists would have much smaller fan bases. I don't drink lean, so does that mean I can't appreciate Future's music? Because I can't relate to it? If people wanna listen to Em's music, they can... no one's really judging anyone. You don't like something, you think it's bad, then just say it. Why hold back because other people enjoy it? How can you belittle yourself when you're speaking your thoughts? Are we not allowed to have negative opinions on things? You're the one who asked people in this thread why he isn't in the running as the GOAT, so people gave their answers. You don't like what people had to say? Well that's too bad.
 
V

Vorheez

Member
Eos said:
His rape/violence lyrics are funny and passionate? Yeah I can't relate to those things lmao. Besides, saying you have to identify with the subject matter for you to enjoy it is nonsense. If that was the case, a lot of artists would have much smaller fan bases. I don't drink lean, so does that mean I can't appreciate Future's music? Because I can't relate to it? If people wanna listen to Em's music, they can... no one's really judging anyone. You don't like something, you think it's bad, then just say it. Why hold back because other people enjoy it? How can you belittle yourself when you're speaking your thoughts? Are we not allowed to have negative opinions on things? You're the one who asked people in this thread why he isn't in the running as the GOAT, so people gave their answers. You don't like what people had to say? Well that's too bad.
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I mostly just took issue with your generalization that it's music intended for "white angsty teenagers." I didn't feel that was really an opinion, just shitty. His music is for everyone. Other than that, good points. I like the comparison to Future because I'm a big fan as well. Also, I forget that our negative opinions are just as valuable as our positive ones because they identify who we are, so both must be presented. I guess I just don't like when people are militant with them, or use them to disparage others. We are all guilty of it though.
 
O

overcast

Member
Yeah, needing to relate to something is an odd way to look at music. Or rather the concept of relation can sometimes need a little tinkering with. I think "relating" to music is basically that it hits you right??

So, something like DS2 last year hit a lot in the spring and summer as party anthems for myself and my friends. Earl brought togehter a project that I could relate to more lyrically. Not that I am as depressed or dark as the man himself (or his lyrical content) but some brooding, dark, headphone music was just as necessary. TPAB's concepts go without saying, but I could relate to much of it on an emotional level. Not all music will be a literal testament to what you are going through in life. It's no doubt a necessary tool (in my mind) to help you through certain moments. Sometimes I need to sit down and listen to Babylon by Outkast. Maybe I'll throw on Generation Rx by Danny Brown to identify with the reality of addiction. Of course on the other hand I'll put on Hercules at the gym or some Money, Clothes, Hoes while cruising. To me that's all relating to music in its own way.

That being said Em's music really did age poorly. I don't relate to it, and on top of that a lot of it sounds whack.

Edit: Does anybody have that gif of Lil B saying game is irrelevant on deck?
 
E

Eos

Member
Vorheez said:
I mostly just took issue with your generalization that it's music intended for "white angsty teenagers." I didn't feel that was really an opinion, just shitty. His music is for everyone. Other than that, good points. I like the comparison to Future because I'm a big fan as well. Also, I forget that our negative opinions are just as valuable as our positive ones because they identify who we are, so both must be presented. I guess I just don't like when people are militant with them, or use them to disparage others. We are all guilty of it though.
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I said mostly white
troll.png
 
W

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
On a long enough timeline, every rap legend gets shit on. Em stans are the only ones who think their guy is untouchable. So what if people don't like him? People hate Nas, hate Jay, hate all golden age rappers for not being lyrical. Dre is hated. The only way to be truly not hated on is to have died young enough before you got to be seen as old and played out. And there are even people who hate on Pac and Big, so that ain't even secure.
 
Tokubetsu

Tokubetsu

Member
WanderingWind said:
On a long enough timeline, every rap legend gets shit on. Em stans are the only ones who think their guy is untouchable. So what if people don't like him? People hate Nas, hate Jay, hate all golden age rappers for not being lyrical. Dre is hated. The only way to be truly not hated on is to have died young enough before you got to be seen as old and played out. And there are even people who hate on Pac and Big, so that ain't even secure.
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Big L is wild overrated too he just died way too early to even begin to hint at disappointing his stans.
 
C

Cheddahz

Banned
been listening to "700 fill" a lot as of lately and it's a whole lot better than i thought it was when it first dropped

the sporting life beat tape is amazing as well if you haven't checked that out (and probably was the best ratking associated release last year)
 
T

T Dollarz

Member
Cheddahz said:
been listening to "700 fill" a lot as of lately and it's a whole lot better than i thought it was when it first dropped

the sporting life beat tape is amazing as well if you haven't checked that out (and probably was the best ratking associated release last year)
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700 Fill was really underrated in here. Not as great as So It Goes but still really solid
 
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